New Israeli Military Phenomenon . . . Celebrating Killing, Murdering the

[mike_c]

New Israeli Military Phenomenon . . . Celebrating Killing, Murdering the Injured

GAZA, December 9, 2004 (WAFA) - WAFA's Political Editor Wrote: There is something that draws our attention and induces our imagination and contemplation. Are we before a phenomenon that overwhelms the Israeli society, which is professionalism of killing and being over all human requisites? In other words, has the Israeli soldier turned from being a professional soldier, ruled by the military laws that ruling all soldiery all over the world, to be a murderer moved by desire of killing and bloodshed?

The Palestinians were panicked twice, first when heard of a leakage of authentic information that Israeli soldiers take pictures with murdered Palestinians and keep them in their wallets to show to their families and friends to brag of their deeds, or maybe to prove their killing of Palestinians.... And a second time when the argument among the high officers of the Israeli Army, on the legality of this question from a human and moral viewpoint, flared up. The result of the debate provided evidence that the majority of the army's high officers bolster the murdering soldiers and boost taking memorial photos with slain Palestinians.... It is enigmatic and exasperates the Palestinians. The enemies have become more than killing soldiers. To a certain extent, they are slayers, enjoying killing that satisfies their instincts and offers them rapture and satisfaction.... It is a killing that they seek with gratification and overflowing happiness.... This falsifies the alleged Israeli theory of self-defense.

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http://english.wafa.ps/almoharer1.asp?field=almoharer&id=2

[papau]

1. Sick folks on both sides - the Gaza bombing of Israeli cars had photos

being taken by palestinians of them next to the bodies of the Israeli's.

In 'Nam trophy ears were the thing amoung those more sick than the rest.

You can not kill and remain the same.

I only hope for peace soon.

:-)

[newyorican]

10. Ditto...

No one is immune...

[Lithos]

12. This happens on both sides

I would like to emphasize there is a difference though between personal trophies taken as coup by the various combatants and the broader use of inflammatory material as mass-propaganda.

As disgusting as it may seem, the former is a ritual as old as time itself. Sometimes it exists at the basest level such as taking photographs or personal body parts, or at an abstract level such as marking "kills" on an airplane or tank or carving notches into a gun.

The latter while also with roots back to antiquity, has become a science heavily abetted by technology. It also is orders of magnitude more disgusting than personal coup as it's sole intent is not to mark a victory, but to inflame hatred.

L-

[cali]

2. This should be pulled.

I normally don't post here, but this is such a blatant piece of incitement, I felt like I had to. I'm not going to hit alert, but whether it's Israelis demoizing Palestinians, or Palestinians demonizing Israelis, this kind of ugly propaganda doesn't further anything but hate and acrimony.

[mike_c]

3. if you can provide some evidence that these claims are false...

...I'll alert it myself.

Frankly, my sense is that this forum is becoming overwhelmed by posts designed to inflame anti-arab, anti-Palestinian sentiments, particularly by one poster who rarely posts anywhere else on DU, and who's I/P threads are uniformly biased in favor of Israel. At least I've simply posted the material as published by WAFA without further editorializing. You may choose to ignore it if you wish. Nonetheless, I think it's important to understand that there is a Palestinian perspective that is all too often not reported in the U.S. This article illustrates part of that perspective.

[QueerJustice]

4. SO LET`s SEE....

in order to counterbalance ...views from ``one poster who rarely posts anywhere else on DU``(my dad watches only cricket on TV and never soccer or Rugby...how unbalanced is that.....:eyes: )

We should all try post horseshit here so that this garbage can at LEAST balance the debate here towards the other side?

Yes that will do the balancing trick nicely...

...I for one will search the archives of The National Enquirer,Globe and Cospiricies R US to balance DU nicely....

[drdon326]

5. WOW....

particularly by one poster who rarely posts anywhere else on DU, and who's I/P threads are uniformly biased in favor of Israel.

OHHH...HIM !!......I hate that guy. He really pisses me off.

btw....
This is inflammatory bs and is 3 months old to boot.

[mike_c]

6. no one has yet provided any evidence to the contrary...

...and if anyone should be aware that blanket condemnations of other's perspectives, while an effective way of bludgeoning opposing points of view into silence are not sufficient in themselves to disprove the allegations-- that person should be you, Don. Its date is irrelevant-- it's recent enough to not be ancient history-- except possibly as a means of silencing a Palestinian editorial voice. This column comes to us from Gaza, where the victims of Israeli persecution either have a pretty good grasp of what is actually happening there, or at worst, a pretty legitimate reason for hyperbole.

[drdon326]

7. mike.....

if you want to stand by this, GO FOR IT.

I'm not going to get bent out of shape over it. Enjoy.

[QueerJustice]

21. its not hyperbole..

...It is TRASH....

[cali]

8. Hi Mike,

There's nothing to prove or disprove. It's opinion. Statements like: Celebrating Killing, Murdering the Injured
and
To a certain extent, they are slayers, enjoying killing that satisfies their instincts and offers them rapture and satisfaction.... It is a killing that they seek with gratification and overflowing happiness.... This falsifies the alleged Israeli theory of self-defense.

Yes, there's the accusation that Israeli soldiers are taking photographs of dead Palestinians and keeping them as gruesome mementos. If that happens, that's awful, though no more awful than the show, a couple of years ago, dedicated to the celebration of the bombing of the Sbarro Pizza.

But for the main, this is simple demonization. It virtually accuse every member of the Israeli military- and by extension- Israelis as a whole, of being filled with "overflowing happiness", "rapture" and "satisfaction" due to the act of killing Palestinians..

I do understand your point about posters who demonize Palestinians, and get that you're frustrated, but posting this sort of ugly demonization of Israelis is not the way to deal with it.

[drdon326]

9. I hope its not pulled...

this is just 'slash and burn' demonization but if mike wants to stand by this kind of "article", I say more power to him.

Maybe will be lucky and there will be a part II.

[Violet_Crumble]

15. Slash and burn demonisation...

An example of that would be trying to label members of ISM terrorist supporters. Strange how slash and burn demonisation only draws selective outrage from some, eh?

Violet...

[QueerJustice]

18. a lot of people would say...

..the ISM do a whole lot more than just SUPPORT terrorism......

[Violet_Crumble]

27. And those people are complete morons...

Because claiming that the ISM support terrorism is demonising folk who are involved with the ISM. It's really hypocritical to complain about demonisation only when you don't like that particular demonisation...

Violet...

[Violet_Crumble]

14. What is the way to deal with it?

Mind you, I agree that tit-for-tat demonisation isn't the way to deal with it, but short of ignoring the torrents of demonisation from a very small number of posters, I don't see a way to deal with it. Wait in the hope that they will one day realise that what they advocate is endless violence and hatred rather than any hopes for peace? What I find kind of amusing about this thread is there are people floating around who would swear black and blue that demonisation and the use of propaganda only happens on one side - their side, which of course is the one that never ever does anything wrong....

One thing I will disagree with before I go back and read the article - even if there is an implication that every member of a military force is *bad*, that doesn't by extension apply to the civilian population. It'd be painting with a broad brush about the military, that's where my gripe would be...

Violet...

[QueerJustice]

16. in Israel....

``every member of a military force`` IS ``the civilian population``

...thats jus how it is.....

[Violet_Crumble]

17. In that case...

If you are claiming that every civilian is a member of the military, then that means that you think there are no civilian casualties at all in the I/P conflict when it comes to Israeli citizens. Sorry to break the news, but there's a difference between the military and the civilian population...

...that's jusT how it is...


Violet...

[UL_Approved]

26. Never "just how it is"

That line of propaganda was used against the Jews in NAZI Germany on many occasions. The military had to have some excuse to carry out its policies, and that is what justified the brutal mistreatment of those people to the German public.

Not everybody is a militant. Not everybody supports wars, killings, or intimidation. The fact is, this is a situation that failed on BOTH sides because of bad diplomacy.

But don't forget, the modern state of Israel was FOUNDED BY TERRORISTS. Ever hear of the King David Hotel?

[King Mongo]

20. thanks

Thanks for showing views from the other side :)

[bloom]

13. I think if DU decided that there were to be no threads that demonized

the other side (Israel/Palestine) that they would have to just ban the Israeli /Palestinian forum altogether.

One side or the other is all I ever see around here.

I pretty much stay out. I figured I would venture into the pit because of the election.

It has not been my experience that people are looking for solutions.

[Scurrilous]

11. Related thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x80954

[pelsar]

19. the "cheerleader" phenomenon

this is one of those articles whos sole purpose is to get ones blood going and as a consequence keep the conflict going.... bear with me why I explain the pure malice of such an article, for those who write it and those those that use it.

the first step is human nature. For fireman, policeman, paramedics, combat soldiers, ER doctors etc..after studying their new trade, they are all anxious to try it out, see what they are made of, can they live up to the stories that have been told. For the paramedic, he/she waits for his first gory accident, the ER doc,,,a couple of massive traumas, the fireman?...the combat soldier?...a firefight. And they all want their trophies, proof that they "did it". For the fireman, it may be the child saved, for the fighter pilot, its downing the enemy and a decal on his jet, for the combat solider, in past its been heads, ears, etc...now it pictures....thats our basic human nature.

Civiliized societies in general frown upon such things, and so too does the israeli society. The stories came from the Israeli media which publicized it and initiated quite a public outcry, Many soliders explained, aplogised, were embarrased etc. Meaning the society as a whole rejected it.

The palestenians also as a society have also rejected such trophies. Yes they too have their pictures, but as a society they have rejected the idea (note, at this point I am usually critized for including "all the palestenians in my post"). A couple of months ago a couple of israeli personal carriers blew up spewing israeli soldier body parts all over a palestenian neighborhood. At first there were some pictures of those parts with jihadnikim. After pressure being brought down on the palestenians by their own, those body parts were returned to israel. Meaning they too, as a society, rejected the idea of celebrating with pictures of their enemy dead.

so whats going on? both societies in this war, in general have rejected the idea of celebrating their enemy dead.

then comes along an article like the above and attempts (and succeeds) to create a conflict where none exists.

those are what I call cheerleaders. They are not part of the conflict, probably dont even know the "rules of the game" yet have a need to cheer one side, whether or not the cheer is relevant.

these kind of people are best ignored, for they have nothing to offer but conflict.

[Lithos]

22. Agreed

The issue of taking coup or as a way of self-identification is as old as antiquity itself. This is done by the individual and is blind to the uniform. Sometimes the practice is degrading to the vanquished, but for the most part its form has become an abstraction such as a decal or notch in a rifle.

But, inflammatory propaganda such as this is equally as old, but in this case the power, subtlety and scope has been greatly magnified by the use of modern technology. Generally this becomes the kernel of history written by the victor.

L-

[drdon326]

23. I'm stating the obvious but.......

one would think that inflammatory propaganda such as this would have decreased with the use of modern technology but the peddlers of this kind of "information" have actually found their voice in many ways.

[Lithos]

24. This is the Information Age

This is the Golden Age of propagandists of all types, be they Madison Avenue, or political groups. The writer of the above article was their Poltical Editor.

The ultra-religious Haredi have their propagandists in Ha-Eda and Der Blatt. Even the Neturai Karta have been known to utilize photography for inflammatory and propagandistic purposes.

L-

[QueerJustice]

25. ``Even the Neturai Karta ......```

....same garbage.....