Hamas Rocket Hits Major Israeli City for First Time

[MaineDem]

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3350823

GAZA (Reuters) - A makeshift rocket fired by the militant Hamas group on Thursday landed in a major Israeli city for the first time, causing no casualties or damage but raising tension on the tinderbox Israel-Gaza border.

The Qassam rocket slammed into an industrial zone in the coastal city of Ashkelon, 5.5 miles from the Gaza Strip, the army said. It was the furthest a Qassam had been fired into Israel since a Palestinian uprising for statehood began in 2000.

The rocket attack on the city of 116,000 could mark the crossing of a red line for Israel, which fears similar strikes from the West Bank against the nearby densely populated center of the country.

[QuietStorm]

1. well this is not good news

while qassam rockets seem almost a symbolic gesture (no damage no casualty --- not that there should be), but the palestinians in the OT's can be squashed completely, because of this. Israel has succeeded in metering out MUCH damage and casualty.

I don't know anymore this conflict becomes difficult to follow. This "rocket could mark the crossing of a red line for Israel" the article says. I don't know seems to me that red line was crossed three years ago. This just gives Israel further justification to continue on. Israel continues on, will be another line the resistance will cross.

It is already an eyesore this conflict. Before it gets even more so horrific, as punishment WILL now be exacted against the people in the OT's, which will rail up more violent retaliation from the Palestinian militant factions, how much uglier must it get?

[bemildred]

2. Don't worry.

The wall will put an end to this sort of thing.
Heh.

[QuietStorm]

7. on that note: Israel's new barrier cuts old ties

here is one for ya! August 14, 2003

Israel's new barrier cuts old ties
An 87-mile-long West Bank barrier has directly affected more than 200,000 Palestinians.



By Nicole Gaouette | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

JAYYUS, WEST BANK – It's no dream house, the cinderblock hut Sharif Omar now calls home, but he won't leave it anytime soon.

When the West Bank farmer and his wife married 36 years ago, they moved in with his brother. Mr. Omar promised one day to build her a house of her own. This year, he finished it, moved the family in and promptly left for this squat shed in his olive groves, not far from 31 other families camping on their own farms.

It's an exodus born of determination. Israel's separation barrier slices through Jayyus, neatly severing the town from its fields. Israel has taken local land in the past and farmers here worry the barrier's path is the first step toward the loss of their livelihood. They aim to hold on.

Jayyus is just one of 65 towns and cities caught in the barrier's winding path. Still a fraction of its eventual length, the barrier is dividing communities, disrupting access to hospitals and schools and dislocating the ties between people, their land, and scarce water supplies.

Israel has defended its creation of the barrier as a security measure, saying its formidable presence is needed to stop would-be suicide bombers. It denies that its construction has been motivated by an interest in controlling the borders of any future Palestinian state, as critics charge. It cites instead the 817 Israelis killed by Palestinian attacks since the beginning of the intifada.

more...

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0814/p06s01-wome.html

I suppose the CS monitor LIKE The Guardian and The Nation exercise TOO MUCH slant? Unlike the J. Post or FoxNews who report news in balance?

[vierundzwanzig]

3. Genocide

n/t.

Gaza, West Bank is already a big concentration camp. They will get to a point where they will herd them into box carts and send them god-knows-where. (Well, they probably will have to use trucks due to the lack of infrastructure).

Seriously, I think this is just a step away. And we will just sit here and let it happen. It's '1939 in the Gaza strip'.

Not funny.

[QuietStorm]

4. ethnic cleansing

becomes impossible to deny. And the way the violence has been methodically though slowly metered out... well.. you know, no one likes that word genocide used within this context.

It is a moral imperative backed by the US. Is there any commentary available on the exodus? I read about it in passing. You know a sentence or two in an article. However, there is no denying Palestinians are fleeing. I do not understand how history is repeating itself in this manner and no one chooses to stop it?

[The Magistrate]

12. People On Both Sides Are Fleeing, Sir

A sizeable number of Israelis depart each year for other precincts, just as a number of Arab Palestinians do. Sensible people often absent themselves from a war zone.

On of the distiguishing characteristics of atrocity is that it is self-evidently what it is: if it must be argued someyjing is atrocious, it probably is not, by the test of its very nature. One of the great and persistent difficulties in this discussion is that people employ hyperbolic metaphor, then forget they have said a thing is like something else, and come to treat the metaphor as fact.

[Darranar]

13. I might be mistaken here...

but I believe that more people immigrate to Israel than emigrate from it.

[The Magistrate]

16. That Is Certainly Possible, Sir

But it does not alter that many emmigrate; the Israeli population would be much larger otherwise. Indeed, many immigrants seem not to stay for very long.

Someone will doubtless be able to supply some figures on the question.

[QuietStorm]

14. this is true

I know quite a few Israeli's who I have had tell me they don't understand why the Israeli's stay in Israel when they can come to America and live safely anywhere here in America. When they compare the serenity of their lives here in comparison to there they add, "Give the land to the Palestinians come to America."

The conflict wrecks havoc on all concerned. The leaders play fear and bigotry to rally their cause for victory. What can we do Mr. Magistrate? It's been this way since the dawn of man.

[rini]

10. Concentration camp

To use that term for Gaza is the most obscene thing I have read on this forum (and that's saying a lot).

Surely you know what a concentration camp is?

You are talking about Jews, not Germans! We don't round innocent people up, put them in box carts and murder them!

[QuietStorm]

5. A trip back in time (benny morris)

The whole denial of reality is overwhelming to me. I remember when Benny elon's proposal was considered fringe, however well before his trip to Washington, it seems transfer was (and remains in the air). I have heard expressed that Morris supports transfer, might well be why he insisted a number of sentences he wrote which were removed, be stated by the guardian. The delay on news does not fool everyone. I wonder why they bother to do it. It has been clear what is up for quite some time now.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,803417,00.html

[bemildred]

6. Transfer won't fix it.

The wall won't fix it.
Nothing will fix it but actually fixing it.
Things are going to suck until there is a real political settlement.

[QuietStorm]

8. of course not

the one thing that will fix it is not being encouraged: FINALLY addressing rightful grievance. Final status IS AS final status DOES.

transfer is an invitation for further butchery. But of course thems the breaks for "losers". You know how that goes.

[Jackie97]

9. Why don't I feel better?

I've been wanting the Palestinians to have technology of their own to be able to combat the IDF, not Israeli cities!

[QuietStorm]

11. here seems to be the unfortunate problem

IDF has full reign in what might be described as palestinian cities, killing what might be described as innocent palestinians, demolishing what might be described as palestinian residential communities. While I understand your comment and most certainly agree there are moral delineations to be made and guidelines of codes of war to follow, I guess the palestinian resistance is not guided by the same moral delineations. The same moral delineations that seems to justify IDF demolitions of whole palestinian communities, palestinian orange groves and olive vines (years of palestinian work and toil). Places of palestinian commerce bulldozed into the ground.

For this reason I would theorize this is why the Palestinain resistance sees fit to attack Israeli's on their own turf as well, including their cities and their people. It may not be the most popular argument, but if one gives credence to the fact that the IDF resides within what can be argued is a PALESTINIAN CITY wherein no target is off limits, it does seem to me unreasonable to expect that the Palestinain resistance would politely restrict their attacks to only the IDF.

It is an aspect of the whole WAR between to two whole and feuding cultures that seems generally to be overlooked and obfiscated by expressions of moral indignation and the selective moral preceptions and delineations of moral differences.

[The Magistrate]

15. The Various Armed Irregular Bodies Of Arab Palestine, Sir

Maintain their installations, and conduct their operations, among the civilian populace of Arab Palestine. This is normal conduct for partisan forces, of course, but it necessarily exposes the civilian populace to the hazards of combat against the partisans. It is one of the aims of such conduct to do this, as it serves purposes both of propaganda and recruitment for the partisan force.

On the other hand, it would be quite possible for the armed irregulars of Arab Palestine to direct their operations against Israeli military personnel and installations. These appear in many places, quite seperate from the civilian populace of Israel, and many of them, such as checkpoints beyond the Green Line, have some real military signifigance it would be of benefit to the irregulars to disrupt. Further, it would be of great political utility for the cause of Arab Palestine if attacks were directed against Israeli military targets, and not against Israeli civilians, as this would neutralize for all save the most committed ideologues the oder of illegitimacy clouding the character of Arab Palestinian actions in pressing their cause. That this is not done is a concious decision by the leadership and members of these various irregular armed bodies: nothing inherent in their situation obliges them to commit these crimes of war. It is a free choice.

[Darranar]

17. Agreed...

the main argument for Israel is securing its citizens from suicide bombings.

Additionally, when the fear of suicide bombings disintegrates, many Israelis who are currently paralyzed by fear will speak out for peace. An end to sucide bombings could well bring a lasting peace, though I doubt it will happen before Israel makes some concessions of its own.

[Jackie97]

18. I know....

You destroy my city, and I'll destroy yours. It just seems like it would be better to concentrate on destroying the power of the IDF though. They could bomb an IDF military base for example. I think that the Palestinians could get more done that way.

[QuietStorm]

21. I agree

but look what that says. I understand please I am not admonishing you for saying it... a defense is in order on the palestinian side how best to justify their cause through defense is I guess the issue... so you say wow I wish instead they would have struck IDF... I said recently in another post... why haven't they blown up areas of that fence. It has been under construction all this time. I agree the form of defense works against them almost completely playing into the propaganda itself.

I am a pacifist I wish there would be non-violent public displays of resistance. I know gush shalom has tried to organize along these lines but the IDF has the borders so tight there is a law that makes it illegal for Israelis to cross into various places in Gaza.

I wish these displays would have started months ago, yet I guess with this assassination policy of helicopters flying in at any time and lobbing missiles why would thousands of people want to stand in full view?

Militarism is the language of both sides. People are at odds with the tactics on both sides. Look at us. Now we are saying things like I wish they would have instead attacked IDF or instead they should have blown up portions of that fence. At ever turn either sides is wrong no matter how they combat the problem why? because VIOLENCE IS NOT THE ANSWER ANYMORE... ADMITTANCE IS ... DIPLOMACY IS...

I have to leave IP for the day... It has become incomprehensible on top of the irrationality of this war in Iraq.

[Jackie97]

24. I would like to hope that there is a non-violent answer...

but I think that Palestinians need self-defense just in case.

It sounds to me that along with weapons, they also need some sort of training. Seriously, they suck at this in my opinion. It reminds me of something I read talking about how the Native Americans of the past could hear the English stamping along the way to try to kill them, so the Natives knew that they were there. This is far worse. It's like they don't have the first clue about how to fight a war.

[tinnypriv]

19. Get ready for a big reaction (minor one already)

Israel just "liquidated" another militant in the strip, but I doubt that will be the only response. My impression is that there is heavy public pressure for a stronger retaliation.

Bear in mind that the security services in Israel are predicting a cease-fire reinstatement within seven days. I doubt Sharon wants that, and even if he has to accept it, he'll want to get in several strikes before that deadline.

[Darranar]

20. Hasn't Hamas already refused that cease-fire?

If they don't join, I doubt anyone of importance but the PA will.

[tinnypriv]

22. Unless they are provoked

That "refusal" looks like only bluster. That is Israel's assessement, not mine, but I think it is a pretty plausible position.

[Darranar]

23. Not if the violence continues...

on both sides, which i am sure it will. I doubt Sharon has any wish for another cease-fire, and he will make that clear.