Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

A state of displaced people (Ha'aretz editorial)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 02:47 AM
Original message
A state of displaced people (Ha'aretz editorial)
While the state makes another daily gesture toward the settlers of Gush Katif, cushioning their exit with millions of shekels and building them neighborhoods of private beachfront homes - coddling that few in the state have received - the settlers continue to spurn the decisions of the Knesset, government and Supreme Court, and to liken themselves to sheep heading to slaughter.

The ongoing opposition to the evacuation might have been acceptable had there not also been warnings - from those fomenting rebellion against the government - about an impending "rift in the people." That rift could, indeed, occur - and not because the citizens of Israel are not compassionate, but because the settlers are making every effort to remove themselves from the public. If they are not prepared to accept the decisions of the government, the Knesset and the Supreme Court, and threaten to refuse evacuation orders and to barricade themselves in bunkers in the name of holy martyrdom, then the emotional break with them will, indeed, occur.

What has grown increasingly clear of late is that the settlers are not pioneers on a state mission, as they have presented themselves, but rather self-designated envoys on behalf of their own worldview, and on behalf of some rabbi or other who ordered them to behave in this or that way. After years in which they preached to the public that they are the supreme exemplars of sacrifice and devotion for the sake of all, it turned out that their pioneering is conditional. So long as the public agrees with them, they serve the public; the moment the state decides on a different set of priorities, they are prepared to thwart a legal action by the state and to punish it for hurting the realization of their individual and collective dream.

The State of Israel is a state of immigrants and displaced people. Anyone who came to Israel was uprooted from a home, a neighborhood, a synagogue or a cemetery in his place of birth - in Europe, Asia or Africa. These displaced people, immigrants and refugees, who today form the backbone of Israeli society, saw the very absorption in Israel as compensation for the evacuation, and they did this under harsh personal and economic conditions, without money, without knowing the language, and sometimes without a shred of sympathy from the veteran Israelis. Therefore, the evacuated settlers of Gush Katif need to keep things in proportion when they talk about trauma. The evacuation from Gush Katif to Nitzanim, a distance of 30 kilometers, or to any other place in Israel they choose, is not like any displacement experience that millions of other Israelis have undergone.

When a youth reared in religious Zionism stands before a judge and says, "I am a Jew from the land of Israel" (as opposed to the State of Israel), as though he were standing before a British Mandate judge, he cannot expect any empathy. It would be preferable for the settlers of Gush Katif to emulate in their protest Supreme Court Justice Edmond Levy, who identified with their stance on the Evacuation Compensation Law, but when he remained in the minority, wrote in his dissenting opinion: "Now that the High Court of Justice has also ruled by a majority that there is no flaw that justifies cancelling the law entirely, all of us are obligated to obey the law, even if there are some who will be compelled to do so with gritted teeth."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/587084.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. street signs....
there are posters up on the way to work where I drive which say:

me a reserve soldier take a jew out of his home...are you crazy....


me? I cant wait....i'm actually growing a bit impatient for august. The settlers (btw this refers to those of the west bank, the kids being used and gazas new found residents who are now wholed up in a hotel as the settlements dont want their "kind')..have show their alligence is to their god and his "strange ways" and not to the state of israel.

time we showed them whos boss around here
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Is yr attitude common amongst reservists?
Edited on Sun Jun-12-05 05:01 AM by Violet_Crumble
Earlier this evening I came across a Ha'aretz article about a settler being arrested for assaulting a soldier, and under it there were a few more articles about similar attacks on soldiers.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/587029.html

Seems pretty moronic for these settlers to attack soldiers and then turn around and expect sympathy from them...

When the time comes for the settlers to be moved, I'm getting the feeling that all there will be in Gaza will be the extremists, who will put up a last stand type battle with the military. I've heard many of the settlers from Gaza have pre-empted the disengagement and have already or are soon to move back to Israel...

Violet...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. the assualt...
Edited on Sun Jun-12-05 07:53 AM by pelsar
the ones who assulted come from a settlement known as tapuach...the extreme of the extreme (I read once when you have to wear a beard to become a member....).

Gaza has a very different type of settler, for the most part they are non religious, and they are first and formost citizens of israel, hence when the state says its time to go, they may not like it, but they go.

they now have some new residents from the westbank, who are very nervous about this...for two reasons:
gods say so,....(though I must have missed the memo)
and secondly if it works, interms of the palestenains vis a vis israel and the surrounding cities), then the settlement enterprise in the westbank is doomed, since the arguement that they are protecting tel aviv, falls apart. And if they're not doing that, then we really dont know what the fuk their doing out there.

as far as the reservists go....I dont know what various attitudes are since i live in my own little "bubble"....the guys I met last week (my unit had a barbeque on the beach) will all be reporting...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. pelsar
Thank you very much for this very unique and relevent perspective.

Also, I wish you and your unit a safe return.


L-
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, God Speed, or good luck, or may the force be with you. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. " may the force be with you"
thats a real beautiful sentiment,bemildred.


juuuuuuust real beautiful.:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Was that your head exploding? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Ya know.......
the way things are going for me lately.......I will keep my opinion of YOUR POST to myself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. You don't think offering Pelsar moral support is a good thing?
I meant that, you know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. No comment , bemildred
Whatever.

I am amazed that your post was allowed to stand. (maybe i'm not so amazed)


eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. The World is just full of wonders I guess. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Here's another wonder...
I was always under the impression that if a poster is put on ignore, then no threads they start will be visible. That's how it works for me at least, so now I'm wondering why this threads full of 'holes' for me :shrug:

Violet...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Down the rabbit hole we go, eh? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Yes, and now back to Star Wars....
Edited on Tue Jun-14-05 05:06 PM by Violet_Crumble
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Good luck.
Stay safe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I'll ditto that sentiment...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Keep in mind
that a lot of soldiers, especially those who have served in the Territories (myself included) aren't all that fond of the settlers (or at least their extremist hard core, which is mainly the nuts in the settlements around Nablus and Hebron); both because some of them have the habit of treating the IDF like their own private security service, and because they tend to create messes the army later needs to clean up (for example, I remember a night when a group decided to go into Joseph's Tomb; not content to wait for the escorted bus, or to abide by the limit of visitors the local brigade commander set, they just went of and strolled right into Nablus; fortunately, nothing happened*, but if it had, we would have had a real mess).

*A few years ago, another group of settlers tried this stunt, came under fire, and had to be extracted (suffering casualties, IIRC).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. The extremist element...
I probably haven't been paying attention and this has come up in the past, but has the Israeli govt ever discussed physically removing the extremists from places like Hebron? The fact that they're not only putting the lives of Israeli troops at risk, but also doing the same to Palestinian civilians would make this sort of action tempting to me at least...

Violet...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Not that I know of
Doing so - especially in a way that singles them out (as opposed to part of a more comprehensive disengagement) - is fraught with political difficulties. Rabin or Barak, with governments that didn't need to take into account the right, might have been able to do so, but while they may have faced lower-level opposition, there would be a whole lot more of it .There were also other considerations. Hebron is especially difficult, both because of the city's religous significance, and its symbolic importance (up until 1929, Hebron contained the oldest Jewish community in existence). Not to mention the fact that the extremists would be the hardest to evict, so the government is hesitent to confront them (look what happened when they tried to evacuate Havat Gilad, and that was just a small outpost).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 06th 2024, 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC