U.S. freezes military ties, shipments to Israel

[newyorican]

The Bush administration has begun to block arms shipments to Israel and suspend joint programs after the two allies failed to resolve a dispute over arms sales to China.

U.S. officials said the Defense Department and Israeli representatives were unable to draft a memorandum of understanding that would halt Israeli weapons sales to China. They said the two sides could not agree on a supervision mechanism for Israeli arms exports.

-snip-

The failure to draft the MoU appeared to have heightened the crisis between the Pentagon and Israel's Defense Ministry. The Pentagon has boycotted high level meetings with Israeli officials since July 2004 in wake of Israel's efforts to upgrade the Harpy unmanned aerial vehicle for China.

Since then, the Pentagon has embarked on a process of escalating sanctions. They included the suspension of Israeli participation in the Joint Strike Fighter program.

read more...

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Ok.

This is big. Some nasty shit is going on below the radar.

[denverbill]

2. So while we fight proxy wars for Israel against Iraq, and maybe Syria

and/or Iran, Israel is busy selling weaponry to our major 'enemy'.

Oh well, seeing as how the US has already given China the most advanced chip-making equipment in the world to build our computers, it's not like China will really need Israel's help to build weapons systems anymore.

[notadmblnd]

3. Isreal has been doing it for years

whether the weapons are new or used. Isreal has been buying US weapons and technology for years and selling it to other nations. Ari Ben-Menash former high level Isreali operative, accused and aquitted of illegal arms trade tells all in his book.

[Behind the Aegis]

4. Proxy wars

I love the spin about how our illegal war in Iraq is a proxy war for Israel. And, of course, because she (Israel) is all so powerful, it must be the nefarious Israeli government behind the illegal war in Iraq. :eyes: Has it ever dawned on people that perhaps what is happening in Washington, D.C. is a quest for oil, since we are so damn dependent on it? No! Of course not, it HAS to be the bidding of the evil Israeli Empire? :eyes:

As for selling weapons to our "enemies," is that the same as when we sold arms to Iraq and Iran back in the 80's? BTW, when did China become the enemy? Are we in another Cold War and wasn't told?

[denverbill]

7. Spin?

Yeah, it couldn't be because some of the prime instigators of the war were involved in AIPAC. Richard Perle was a former Likud advisor for Pete's sake. I can't imagine why ANYONE would think toppling Saddam was as much in Israel's interest as anyone's. Saddam didn't have any weapons that could hit the USA in 2003, but he certainly managed to hit Israel in 1991.

Perhaps you don't consider China an enemy, but they do have a few dozen nukes pointed our way, and have repeatedly threatened Taiwan, who we have pledged to defend. Do you really think Israel selling them weaponry is a good idea?

By the way, how does Israel feel when we sell arms to Egypt and Saudi Arabia?

[Behind the Aegis]

11. side benefits

Iraq was a problem for Israel; it has been for awhile. I am not saying that Israel benefits from Saddam's removal, but do you HONESTLY think that is why the US went?! Please!!! That might almost be altruistic, in a manner. The US went for TWO reasons...

OIL & They tried to whack Poppy!

So it is OK to defend Taiwan but not Israel? So, if we fight China will people be bitching about how we are fighting a proxy war for Taiwan or it was because of the powerful Taiwanese lobby (do they even have one)?

"By the way, how does Israel feel when we sell arms to Egypt and Saudi Arabia?" I am not sure, but yet the US still does it, regardless of the feelings of Israel. Why should Israel be held to a different standard?

on edit: I am sorry the reasons were so BIG. I was trying to make a point, but not that way. I wanted it a little bigger than the normal font, so I apologize...I can't figure out why it is not doing what I want.

[denverbill]

14. Maybe 'proxy war' was a poor choice of words.

My point is only this.

The US has been Israel's biggest supporter over the last 40 years, monetarily, politically at the UN, and militarily. Israel can likely defeat militarily any and all of it's neighbors. In the extremely unlikely event they are attacked, the US would undoubtedly back Israel to the hilt.

Meanwhile, China is the major military threat to the US of the 21st century. They have the largest standing army in the world, 1 billion people, and the fastest growing economy in the world. They are likely the only country that could become a superpower to rival the US over the next 20 years. And Israel, our closest ally, is selling them weapons.

It would be extremely ironic if the US had to commit it's entire military to defend against a Chinese invasion of Taiwan and was unable to assist Israel when it was attacked.

[Coastie for Truth]

15. China owns our US Treasury Debt -

They are not going to watch that go the drain. Why should they - the Chinese are not as stupid as the Neocons - they are going to drive our economy to hell by building their own economy - not by wasting their capital on munitions - they are not dumb Neocons - and .

They already have our for .

The Chinese are smart -- they are not PNACs or Neocons - they can whip us economically, why go to war and waste their own treasure.

Even the Pakistanis are outsmarting the Neocons. We agree to keep Israel from selling arms to India, and as a wink and nod quid pro quo . Doesn't cost Pakistan anything - they don't even have to try to capture Osama -- and in return they can slow down India's arms program, harm the Zionist entity's economy, and the Neocons keep the US defense contractors - even the ones on Long Island, happy.

[Lithos]

12. Iraq

The fact remains Saddam was so neutralized that he lacked the capacity to attack any of his neighbors, let alone Israel. The war actually has increased the insecurity in the region and will probably cause greater problems for Israel in the long run.

I really doubt that Israel would have wanted to game this scenario if given any choice over the matter. The truth is that the game is about the strategic control over oil and money to be made from defense spending. Israel is just convenient to help the former (listening post, etc.) and as this article shows, highly inconvenient competitors for the latter. If it were otherwise, you would think that policy leaders as you describe would have pushed to let Israel's defense industry grow.

L-

[Colorado Blue]

13. LOL! This is really funny. China is one of our biggest trading

partners and they practically OWN us, debt-wise, along with the Japanese.

I think the real issue here is, the US arms industry is pissed because they wanted the income. And incidentally, Israel develops weapons systems all by themselves and we use some of their technology. Believe it or not, Israeli scientists have some schmekelkes.

As far as how Israel feels when the US arms its neighbors - so what else is new?

George Herbert Walker Bush gave Iraq chemical weapons to "punish" Israel - Craig Unger's words - during the Iran/Iraq war, then used Israel to arm IRAN.

Both states have vowed to destroy Israel, and the Sauds have sent billions to terrorists with similar desires.

I love how this powerful entity runs the world, don't you? Always manoeuvering to get stuck in the middle between powerful, oil-rich states that vow to blow her out of the water, with a chief ally who arms them all!

Damn.

That takes SKILL.

[Coastie for Truth]

6. LENOVO

You posted "Oh well, seeing as how the US has already given China the most advanced chip-making equipment in the world to build our computers," -- Guess what? Not "our computers" any more.


LENOVO
LENOVO
LENOVO
LENOVO

Did you ever hear of the IBM PC? The IBM Thinkpad? The business, those jobs - gone to China.

Not, it's not IBM any more. It's LENOVO - made in the People's Republic of China.

[Montauk6]

5. OK, I don't know if this is relevant or appropriate...

but JUST SO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE SOURCE...

Please check this out: http://www.newyorker.com/printables/talk/030908ta_talk_mcgrath

Now, in light of this article, it's possible that the WT is still a credible source concerning this alleged snag with Israel; I leave it to you to make that judgement.

That said, here's Reuters' take on the subject:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=8783033

[newyorican]

9. U.S. sanctions against Israeli arms industry

According to the Israeli daily Haaretz the U.S. has halted cooperation on several projects, frozen delivery of sensitive equipment, and is even refusing to answer telephone calls from Israeli defence officials.

Furthermore, Washington has also frozen Israel out of the development of Lockheed Martin Corporation's F-35, a next-generation warplane being developed with several foreign participants.

The report states that the U.S. is demanding that Israel agrees to a host of concessions, including U.S. supervision over some arms sales, as a condition for repairing the relationship.

double-secret hidden source (which appears in plain english in your status bar, doh!)

[newyorican]

10. Time to make peace with the U.S.

Two affairs - one related to a Pentagon employee being accused of passing on confidential information to an Israeli Embassy official in Washington, and the other concerning the tightening of control over security exports from Israel - are currently casting a shadow over the tight political relations between the government of Israel and the Bush administration.

The president and his secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, who will visit the region on the weekend, understand just how important and vital it is to make it easy for the government vis-a-vis its commitment to the disengagement plan; but when it comes to brushing aside the recommendations of the professional echelon in the FBI and the Pentagon, their power, too, is limited.

The affair of the security exports is the more problematic of the two. Pentagon officials are fuming over the actions of senior Israeli Defense Ministry officials - first and foremost, Director General Amos Yaron - who have been involved in negotiations with China on security exports. The Americans are refusing to speak to them, and are punishing the defense establishment with sanctions.

The conflict was caused by Israel's denial of the significance of U.S.-China relations. Israel must do all it can not to push its way between the two when it comes to sensitive issues, such as the export of sophisticated security technology. The conflict was intensified due to a failure to properly record the talks between Israeli and American representatives; important summations were jotted down on scraps of paper. Language problems may also have added to the misunderstandings. The same thing happened in the affair of the Israeli early warning spy plane, the Phalcon; Israel sold the plane to China but was subsequently forced to forgo the deal due to U.S. pressure.

triple-hidden secret source (As if reading the URL in the address bar is really that hard to do...)

[Name removed]

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