Female bomber: Attack aimed at youth

[drdon326]

A would-be female suicide bomber who planned to blow up at the Soroka Medical Center in Beersheba on Monday, the same hospital where she received treatment for burns this past year, was caught at the Erez crossing wearing explosives stitched to her underwear. She said she wanted to kill up to 40 or 50 people, including as many youngsters as possible.

-
In a Channel One interview at the Shikma Prison in
Ashkelon, Bas at first declared that she intended to kill as many Israelis as possible and did not want to detonate the bomb at Soroka, because many Arabs were treated there and considered Tel Hashomer instead.

-

Later however, she admitted she had been taken advantage of by Al-Aksa Brigades and was a victim. As the reality sank in she said "yesterday I was free, I was a bird flying in the sky."

Breaking down and crying she admitted she did not tell her mother of her plans and asked for forgiveness. "I am sorry mother, forgive me, I should have listened to you," she said.

Bas had access to Israel after receiving burn treatment at the medical center this year. Taking advantage of the access into Israel, she agreed to a request by Al-Aksa Brigades commanders in Gaza to blow up in a, "crowded area in the hospital."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1119234009872

..................................................................

Unspeakable Depravity.

[Igel]

1. Right. She's the victim.

It leaves me rather speechless, beyond that.

[pelsar]

2. missed this....

but the quote at the end of the article...

"The doctors reminded Israel that "a sweeping toughening of regulations toward all the patients constitutes collective punishment, which endangers the lives of many and is therefore prohibited."

oh....and so having palestenians use their permits to blow us up.....that doesnt constitue collective punishment...surprise surprise.....and then people wonder why we dont take those "comments" seriously

[drdon326]

3. One way street.....

pretty amazing,isnt it?

[Colorado Blue]

5. It's tough, trying to remain ethical and humane

while also trying not to get blown up.

[bennywhale]

8. That is a surprisingly dangerous thing to say coming from

you colorado

[Colorado Blue]

9. Just trying to express frustration, forgive me for my poor

sense of humor. It's a form of gallows humor, I suppose, filled with sorrow, especially at the recent escalations and in view of the exhortations by al Qaeda to step up the violence against Israel.

But the effort to be ethical is serious. People think the retaliatory violence is random, and that the lives of the people involved don't matter to the army, or to the people of Israel. But that isn't true. The effort to strike a balance, between protection and prevention, is extremely difficult when many of the people attacking are just kids themselves, or really have been victimized. And, the terrorists are interwoven with the society as a whole, and it's almost impossible to find them without hurting innocents. And that SUCKS. On the other hand, so does waiting for OTHER innocents to be killed or maimed. So the choices are agonizing.

I read recently of an extremely poor section of a city in Morocco, where many suicide/homicide bombers came. It's hard not to feel sorrow and empathy for them as well as for their victims. Yet, it's also hard not to feel anger, and to wonder, what the hell can we do? How can we work to solve the problems of poverty and despair, while the very fabric of civil society is threatened and attacked?

In America, too, the situation in Iraq touches many of us. There's a soldier in my family, my niece's young husband. He'll be returning there, for an open-ended tour of duty, sometime this fall. When I look at him I shudder, I see darkness, and I fear for the future and for my niece, who weeps as she parts from him at the airport.

Every day, reading the headlines about the latest outrages in Iraq, the suicide/homicide bombings that daily take the lives of innocent people, it's impossible not to feel anger, fear, dread and sympathy all at once, as well as internalizing a sense of shame for having been involved at all, at whatever remove, from this nightmare.

[Igel]

6. One wonders why the threat of being randomly blown up

by "civilians", and the psychological and economic stress it produces in Israel, never seem to count as "collective punishment"?

Just a rhetorical question.

[bennywhale]

7. Collective punishment by a democratic state on people

is different than the collective punishment inflicted by the terrorists and murderers on people.

They are outlaws, criminals, terrorists, murderers.

Isreal is a democratic nation state.

[pelsar]

10. nope Benny....

the PA is responable for their own culture...that of the palestenians...and their criminals/terrorists are crossing or attempting to cross borders to kill people of a different nation state.....

they are not "mere" criminals terrorists...they are state sponsered terrorists. Whether the PA can or cannot do anything about it is something else. If they cant....then there should be no complaints on their part for israel does to protect itself...and if they can...why arent they?

your attempt at absolving the PA of its responsability towards its own people is counter productive at best..at worst it encourages the continuation of terrorism

[bennywhale]

13. I didn't say "mere" anything. There is nothing "mere" about

blowing the fuck out of a hospital/bus/restaraunt, i was highlighting the difference between two types of crimes against humanity.

The PA is undoubtedly partly responsible. That wasn't my point.

My point was that Isreal is a democratic nation state. The West Bank or Gaza or the Palestinian Territories as a whole are/is not a democratic nation state (i wish i could just say state. Cultural thing eh?). Elections don't make a democracy (Ask Zimbabweans).

A "crime" by a democracy differs from a crime by non-state entity outlaws.

(Outlaws is not meant to sound all wild west and not that nasty. Perhaps thats why you included "mere" in your post. Is it? I mean outlaws literally, not in any cowboy way. cultural thing eh?)

[pelsar]

14. the PA

no they are not nation...nor do elections make a democracy (you can include iran in the list)....and granted israel has both greater control and responsability over its citizens than does the PA....but terrorists are in a far different league than criminals.

I dont mind when one expects more out of a democracy vs a dictatorship/entity etc... but neither can we absolve them of basic responsabilities...and in the end they have to be held responsable for the "crimes" their administration and its people commits.

[bennywhale]

15. Absolutely. But one can not use

a dictatorship, a corrupt regime, or a terrorist group to measure one's actions against.

A democratic nation can not, for example, use a dictatorship to prove or boast how free it is. It can not use the torture of a dictator to absolve itself of torture which is less brutal, and it can not use the murderous actions of an outlaw group to show how much less murderous it is.

This is done right across politics and right across the world.

The level against which democratic society should measure itself is an unacheivable free utopian democracy. This is abstract and situations differ but STRIVING for anything less, is in my opinion, an affront to humanity. A state cannot say we are not as bad as them so therefore we are good.

[pelsar]

18. i dont disagree with you....

at least not in principle.....and as you wrote.....its an absract that must be strived for....but reality requires a different measuring stick and unfortunatly a "bending of some of the rules". And yes once we bend its a slipperly slope, but no one in this world lives in a vacuums least of all those in the middle east, where killings of 50-100 years ago are talked about as is if it was yesterday......

that striving you mentioned....how do we demand a dictatorship or an govt thats less than a democracy live up to democratic values when its very essence is non democractic?

[bennywhale]

19. Democracy should be encouraged right across the planet, but

obviously not in the duplicitous manner of the neo-cons. It should be encouraged in a manner similar to the extension of the EU. As the EU expands in stages it comes up against and borders non-democratic nations. These non-democratic nations become very aware of the EU's presence, its benefits, and its values, as do the people of that nation. Ideas and proposals for membership suddenly come onto the agenda within the EU and the neighbour country. (See Slovenia, Hungary, Poland, Czech republic, etc) All countries who improved their forms of government, addressed corruption and improved human rights as a direct result of the EU. The EU pledged to open accession talks (and all the benefits it brings; economic, political, security, values) if these areas were addressed. This brought pressure on the government from the EU, the EU's media (as they focused on it) and ultimately the people. And these are now fully democratic countries.

The affect the EU has had on Turkey is also another example. Torture was still legally a legitimate tool of interrogation until accession talks with the EU began. And even if Turkey never joins the EU their society has been improved directly as a result of it. Croatia is another example. War crimes suspects have been given up due to pressure and promises from the EU. Yushenko and his brave supporters were emboldened by the EU's support, which now borders Ukraine, and Yanaovich was pressured also. In a world of completely separate nation states there would have been a massacre.

So, in terms of world democracy and dictators, i would set up an institution (possibly within the UN, but not necessarily) of all democratic nations. These nations would be integrated or linked politically, economically and in terms of values. Countries outside this institution ( the dictatorships, theocracies and Juntas) would not receive the benefits of it. The democratic world would be united, officially, by democracy, and this world would spread.

The same pressure and support the EU gives to nations and peoples could be transfered to the global scale. Or the EU could just do it, as there are loose plans and aims within the EU to bring into the fold Russia, Georgia, Turkey, the Central Asian countries of the old Soviet Union, and North African countries, particularly Morocco. Now if you look at the map and see what the EU would then border, it is a fair portion of the global population.

Who knows, maybe Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq, Israel and Palestine may be members of the EU one day.

[pelsar]

21. benny....modified un?

So, in terms of world democracy and dictators, i would set up an institution (possibly within the UN, but not necessarily) of all democratic nations. These nations would be integrated or linked politically, economically and in terms of values. Countries outside this institution ( the dictatorships, theocracies and Juntas) would not receive the benefits of it. The democratic world would be united, officially, by democracy, and this world would spread.

thats been my idea for quite a while now....two levels within the UN. The democratic nations that in essence hold all the power, while the non democractic ones get to watch...and they can join in on humanitarian efforts if you like.

the UN should be the base for civil rights etc, that can only be if the UN itself restricts itself to countries that also share the same values...those that dont, have no place in that club.....but they can watch, help out if they like, but no more than that. Murderous regimes like zimbabwa, saudi arabia, sudan, have no place there, let alone voting rights.

[bennywhale]

27. Fantastic. we are agreed then. I totally concur

I would also have human rights as the central tenet. From this a multi-national task force to monitor, report, and if necessary take action against abusive regimes. A kind of "genocide reaction force" could be set up to intervene quickly and decisively in places like Darfur and Rwanda. No one country would gain political benefits.

Can you see America going along with that? I doubt it unfortunately.

[Colorado Blue]

4. More about this, from Ha'aretz

This is just the most heartbreaking, frustrating situation.

Female suicide bomber nabbed at Erez

By Amos Harel

The Shin Bet and Israel Defense Forces foiled a suicide bombing yesterday by apprehending a Palestinian woman who tried to enter Israel with explosives. The woman, 21, was stopped at the Erez border crossing in the north of the Gaza Strip with close to 10 kilograms of explosives in her underwear.

She was sent by Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades activists to blow herself up at the Soroka Medical Center in Be'er Sheva, she said during her interrogation. She had an entry permit to Israel for medical treatment. IDF sources said yesterday that Israel would now have to impose even stricter measures in examining Palestinians entering the country for medical treatment.

The Shin Bet received a tip that Fatah was planning to send Wafa Samir Ibrahim al-Biss, of the Jabalya refugee camp, on a suicide mission via one of the Gaza Strip crossings. Israel gave the Palestinian Authority and Chairman Mahmoud Abbas detailed information of the plan, Shin Bet sources said, but the PA did nothing.

snip

When Al-Biss arrived at the border crossing before noon, she immediately aroused suspicion. The security guards took her to an isolated room and demanded she identify herself and take her pants off. The tapes from the security cameras show Al-Biss insisting she had no weapons, and that she had a right to enter Israel, because she had a permit.

Realizing she had been discovered, Al-Biss apparently tried to blow herself up, but failed to detonate the bomb. She later removed the explosive device and sappers blew it up.

snip

Other commentary revealed that the woman seemed (my diagnosis) to be deeply depressed, expressing a "belief in death", and people in the on-line Ha'aretz forums said that the terrorists are targeting people who are weak, sick, "different", or women who might be hard to marry off. This girl had been burned, and maybe this would have made her a target for the terrorists.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/590189.html

[drdon326]

11. Let me see if I understand this....

This woman wanted TO MURDER 40 OR 50 CHILDREN from a country that was giving her FREE MEDICAL CARE ?

What kind of sicko knowingly goes out to murder 50 people and especially children ?


This is past DEPRAVED.

Tell me.....are these terrorists or sociopaths?

[Colorado Blue]

12. I think these children, like Wafa, are caught in a web.

But the people who are brainwashing them, preying on their weakness and their suffering, aren't kids. I wish we could talk to THEM.

During Iran/Iraq, there was a time when the killing got so extreme, and so many people had been killed, very young people were being sent into the lines. That's happened before, in WWII for example.

But this isn't that kind of situation. The only possible effect this could have, is to create more violence and hurt innocent people. That is infuriating, when people are and have been, sincerely trying to find a just and peaceful solution to the problems.

And of course, I just don't see how hurting the people who are trying to help you represents any kind of sane political, philosophical or religious philosophy whatsoever.

Is the P.A. really this helpless? If so, now what?

[drdon326]

16. CB.....There will N E V E R be peace......

until either every last jew is pushed into the sea (gd forbid) or the palestinian terrorists are eliminated.

I always enjoy when people claim 'oh, once they get their own state it will be different'....ignorant of reality or lying thru their teeth.

The terrorists will soon be defacto in control of the future Hamastan...


AS for Abbas....he just loves being percieved as weak. It allows him to play every angle. He can go to the international community and beg for help. He can claim 'I CANT CONTROL THE TERRORISTS' AND thereby abdicate ANY RESPONSIBITY for any terrorist attack. And it also allows him not to make the tough actions and take on the terrorists.
And then just 4 days ago claim 'I cant do anymore'.


I dont buy his nonsense.

[bennywhale]

20. See the LRA (Lords Resistance Army) in Africa. They are specialists

at getting children as young as ten to rape, murder, and mutilate their fellow human at close quarters. Including the other child soldiers of the other armies. The average "soldier" or rebel or insurgent (child soldier sounds to playful) in Africa is a child. Officil armies, just as those who supply troops to the AU are not however, and i wonder what these people feel when at the end of a battle they pick over the battle field realising the the enemies they had killed were all children lying there face down with no guts left. (Of course they already know who they are fighting, but if they don't fight and kill them these children will massacre villages and steal THEIR children for the army)

And i think to my self, what a wonderful world.

[pelsar]

22. wow....i never hear of these guys....

the christian version of the jihadnikim...

http://www.iap.nl.com/speeches_annual_conference_2003_washington/terrorism_financing_speech_by_richard_buteera.htm


they're in line with saudi arabia/iran for crulty...or in fact i think they "beat them".....

[Lithos]

23. There are other child soldiers in the Sudan

and in Burma as well.

Pol Pot also used child soldiers towards the end as well.

Not uncommon, but still deplorable.

L-

[drdon326]

24. Deplorable ? More like a WAR CRIME as well.

but will these people be ever put on trial?

will the UN or ICJ ever give more that a glance at this?


Exactly how many "free passes" do these people (people who use children in war) do they get ?

[Lithos]

25. There is much work going on

http://www.child-soldiers.org/childsoldiers/legal-framework

Towards a ban on child soldiers

In recent years, progress has been made in developing an international legal and policy framework for protecting children from involvement in armed conflict. An increasing number of governments have "ratified" or agreed to become legally bound by a series of international laws banning the use of child soldiers in armed conflict (see International standards).

The statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC), established in 1998, provides for the prosecution and punishment of those found guilty of recruiting children under the age of 15 for use in hostilities. In 2004 the ICC announced that it was initiating investigations into crimes committed in the course of armed conflict in Northern Uganda and Democratic Republic of Congo, where thousands of child soldiers are still being used. The prosecutor of the Special Court for Sierra Leone (established by the UN and the government in 2002) issued its first indictments in 2003. They included charges of conscripting, enlisting or using boys and girls under the age of 15 to participate in hostilities.

The UN Security council has issued a series of resolutions condemning the use of child soldiers and proposing measures to stop child recruitment. These include dialogue with parties to armed conflict aimed at the immediate demobilization of children; and targeted measures to sanction those who continue to recruit and use them as soldiers. Such measures could include the suspension of military aid or assistance, weapons or travel bans of asset freezing.

The UN General Assembly, the UN Commission on Human Rights, the African Union (formerly the Organization for African Unity), the European Union, the Organization of American States and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe have all condemned the recruitment and use of child soldiers.

As for the use of children in Israel/OTP, here is the UN brief made to the Security Council in 2003.

http://www.child-soldiers.org/document_get.php?id=695

and the general report for Israel/OTP in 2004

http://www.child-soldiers.org/document_get.php?id=945


Please note that there is use of children by many parties here.

L-

[drdon326]

26. Thank you for the links.

i'm sorry.... i'm just not impressed with words.Sorry.


imho, there is a special place in hell for people who use children as weapons in war.IMHO, its a crime against humanity.

[bennywhale]

28. Its also to do with the demographics of particular countries

i don't know the exact figures but there is a wealth of the population aged under fifteen. The rest being severely hit by poverty, disease, war. This is the only "stock" of useable resource these bastards have.

I saw a documentary a lot of years ago on the LRA. The children looked like mini-adults. Their faces wrinkled, worn, tired of life, drugged up and murderous.

These little human beings had been turned into sadistic killers. Some escape, most are too afraid. They run programmes on the local radio where escaped children broadcast that they are safe, to explode the myth these bastards tell them, which is that they will be killed by the government if they escape.

[drdon326]

17. Terror: The female touch

Wafa Samir Ibraim Bas had a morning appointment in the Burn Unit of the hospital that had saved her life several months ago. In December of 2004 Bas was badly injured and burned by a gas balloon explosion in her home. Israeli hospitals do not practice a policy of discrimination. All patients are treated alike. Some patients send thank-you notes. This one decided to detonate a bomb.

-


Abbas should be able to say to his followers, "No More Terror". And they, even the al Aksa Martyrs' Brigades, should listen. Especially they. The question before us is this: is Abbas sending out a double message, or is this pure and deliberate deceit. Neither choice is acceptable. Terror is unacceptable. Especially when it is proudly perpetrated by those people who pledge to work for peace and peaceful solutions. Especially when the perpetrators fall under the direct responsibility of the ruling party. If al Aksa is responsible, Abbas is responsible.

We have not yet heard anything from the mother of Wafa Samir Ibraim Bas. The mother has not come out saying "how could my daughter do such a thing" and neither has she come out proudly applauding and dancing for joy because her daughter intended to blow herself up and take with her tens of innocent Israelis, doctors, nurses, Arabs and Jews. Last week Secretary of State Condi Rice made a statement to the effect that she is sure Palestinian mothers do not dream of having their children grow up to become suicide bombers. I disagree. I wonder if Bas' mother disagrees.

The entire phenomenon is mind boggling. There are Palestinians, women and men, who so want to murder Israelis that they are willing to kill whatever chance for a future their own people may have. I see no end in sight.

Today, a Palestinian woman tried to knife an Israeli soldier.

http://web.israelinsider.com/views/5858.htm

...............................................................

Great article