Gate to nowhere

[idontwantaname]

time to put your name where your mouth is.

a number of folks here on I/P feel the Annexation Wall (aka peace fence) is for terrorism purposes only and not about LAND THEFT. if this is so Israel has done a very sloppy job and has screwed a lot of innocent people over... and for some reason Israels solutions just dont see to work.

so this task is for all you in the PEACE FENCE CHEER SQUAD. let the gov't know the peace fence is not about land theft and let the farmers harvest in peace! (unless youre a racist. than youll sit and do nothing and be happy about it.)


www.israelemb.org
3514 International Dr. N.W.
Washington DC 20008
[e-mail]

Public Appeals Section, Public Affairs Branch, IDF Spokesperson, military post 01025, IDF
Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]

Border Police: [e-mail]

------------------------------------

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/597434.html

For the past two months and more, 7,500 olive saplings ready for planting have lain scattered about the village of Qafin, in the northwest area of the West Bank. Al Ahali, an association from Nazareth, donated the trees as part of an effort to help Palestinian farmers who have been adversely affected by the separation fence. The saplings are growing, their roots have begun to stretch their tight nylon wrapping, and the budding leaves have begun to go dry, but the unlucky villagers cannot plant them. We went there to find out why.

<snip>

While the fence was still being built, the defense establishment promised the farmers they would have regular access to their land through a special gate. In response to the farmers' concerns, Gil Limon, from the office of the Israel Defense Forces' legal adviser in the West Bank, wrote, on September 23, 2003, to attorney Fathi Shbeita of the Israeli town of Tira: "The problem described in your letter, regarding the absence of an agricultural gate in the area of Qafin village, is being dealt with by the Civil Administration with the intention of defining the appropriate gate through which the residents will be able to reach their lands."

<snip>

The requests are filled out at the town hall, from where they are sent to the Palestinian DCL in Tul Karm, which forwards them to the Israeli DCL (a unit of the Civil Administration), which approves or rejects them. Qafin has a population of 9,000. Six-hundred families - between 3,000 and 3,600 people - have land and trees on the other side of the fence. In May of this year, 1,050 villagers applied for permits to access their land. Only 70 were granted them, 600 got a negative reply and the rest, 380 people, received no reply at all. One of the common reasons for rejections is a "distant relation" status - that is, the applicant is too distant a relation to the landowner, a situation that supposedly does not justify a permit.

In this way, the requests of two of the three sons of Abd al-Rahim Kataneh, a 61-year-old farmer who has 80 dunams (20 acres) of land (which are registered in his name), were rejected because they are "distant relations." The third son did not even get a reply. Sharif Kataneh, 70, who asked for a permit for him and his wife to work on lands registered in the name of his father and his father-in-law, received a partial permit: He can enter, but his wife was turned down because she is a "distant relation."

After the request of Ribhe Amarneh, 48, and his brother to work land that is registered in their uncle's name was also rejected because of a "distant relation" status, Amarneh submitted a request through the village of Akkabe, whose residents are descended from Qafin families, and received the permit. Now he can at last check the damage done to his trees, he said. A fire erupted in his olive grove in mid-May. He stood behind the fence, a 10-minute walk from the grove, and could do nothing. The Palestinian firefighters did not get there in time either, because coordination with the army is needed to cross the fence, but the fire did not take that into account.

Amarneh's entry permit is via Gate 5. Tawfiq Taami, also from Qafin, has a permit to enter via Gate 12, which is close to the village and the closest to most of the farmlands. However, it is defined not as an "agricultural gate," but as a "military gate." True, in the season of the olive harvest, the army allowed people through the gate, but even then it was opened only three times a day for a few minutes and then shut.

Seven of us - five Palestinian farmers and two Israelis - waited behind the barbed-wire fence until a Jeep arrived from which a redheaded soldier emerged who did not conceal his surprise at seeing us there.

"There is no entry from here," he said. "This is only for the olive harvesting season."

"But the Civil Administration permits say Gate 12," we insisted.

"What is 12?" the soldier said, perplexed. "All I know is that this is Gate 346."

Following several clarifications on the wireless, he was persuaded that Gates 346 and 12 are synonymous, but that did not change his mind.

"There is no entry to Israel from here," he said.

"They don't want to enter Israel, they want to enter their land," we explained.

"To be politically correct, it is all Israel," he replied. After consulting some more on the wireless, the soldier announced that the Haaretz correspondent and photographer were permitted to cross - but not the Qafin residents whose land is on the other side of the gate.

"This is a DCL permit," the soldier explained. "The army is not obliged to work according to it."

<snip>

[idontwantaname]

1. ps- if you have any other contact info please post. thanks! nt.

[pelsar]

2. its a combination....

some places its pure military and others places its politically and land grab oriented...like everythings else out here nothing is black and white.

when the buses where blowing up and the military intelligence wasnt enough, when the checkposts werent stopping all the bombers...the cry for a fence/wall got louder and louder.

as it renders the suicide bombers impotent (as the lack of them seems to show)....it may in the end be the catalyst for an agreement......and with that possible agreement and its potential for good neighbors....the fence will then be brought down.

if you ask me if I feel bad for the farmers and the games the military plays with their lives an livelihood-yes i do....at the sametime I dont feel bad for the fence/wall being put up nor do I believe that it should have been put up on the green armistic line as that would designate a border and proof that terrorism, i.e. blowing up busses and resturants works.

its wanderings and curves etc at times what appears to be arbitrary, and other times deliberate makes it blantent that it does not represent any future border....as it shouldnt.

any complaint against the fence should have a parrallel complaint against the suicide bombers and their attempts....without which one wont get much support from the israeli public....and its is only when israelis are involved does the fence get moved......

[idontwantaname]

3. one step at a time.

yes i have many complaints against the wall... but my first would be the problems it causes to the farmers whose land it has separated from. the article above highlights the difficulties that farmers go through to get to their land... these people are not terrorists.

what i am to "encourage" above is not a call to demolish the wall... but a sense of accountability to those who support the wall. to take responsibility for problems/mistakes in its planning and execution. to not ignore something which could be fixed or made right and to not only fulfill the duty of being morally and financially tied to this but to make a gesture of goodwill.

the part of israeli activists protesting side by side with palestinian villagers has highlighted a bond many do not think exists. the israelis are welcomed into palestinian homes... yet when soldiers show up in their jeeps with guns pointed at everyone the mood drastically changes. the palestinians understand the difference in intentions between the two parties.




http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x93403

---------------------------------

link to the article: http://www.israelblog.org/1119066202

--------------------------------

Ghandi Redux

By Meron Rapaport

Last Friday Laser and Hassan walked side by side along the main street of Bilin. Laser Peles (who was born in Kfar Chabad, abandoned religion, came out of the closet, was the spokesman for the gay-lesbian faction in Meretz and one of the most devoted activists of Anarchists Against the Fence) has made Bilin, a small Palestinian village adjacent to the settlement of Upper Modi'in, his second home. Sheikh Hassan Yusuf, who also has an ultra-Orthodox background, but contrary to Laser maintained a close connection with religion, was deported to Lebanon, served six years in an Israeli prison and another six months in a Palestinian prison, is today considered the leader of Hamas in the West Bank.

"I am happy that you are here, the Israelis," the ultra-Orthodox believer from Ramallah said to the former Haredi (Jewish ultra-Orthodox believer) from Kfar Chabad, and the two, joined by another 500 or so Palestinians and about 100 Israelis, continued on their way to the weekly demonstration against the separation fence at Bilin.

<snip>

"Soldier, wait a minute before you cock your weapon," it read. "You and your friends are on our land. If you had come as guests we would show you the trees that our grandmothers planted here ... But you were sent here as the representatives of an occupying army and state ... That is why we are demonstrating here, without weapons, in the face of all your arms."

<snip>

[Colorado Blue]

4. How about writing to ARAB governments, and letting them

know that recognizing Israel is long overdue, and that making peace is good and is in everybody's best interests? Holding one government accountable while allowing 22 others, plus the P.A., the militias and the states who send billions of dollars to fund terrorists - like the Sauds - is just plain wrong as well as counterproductive.

When the Palestinian Covenant removes the articles calling for the destruction of Israel, and when the 22 Arab states make treaties, and when Arab books and maps show the state of Israel, and people like the Iranian mullahs stop preaching about the destruction of Israel and her people, then the wall can come down.

I think the fence is despicable, the damage done to innocent people is despicable, but the deaths of civilians and the constant threats and the endless warfare are INTOLERABLE.

[Violet_Crumble]

8. You got a few things wrong there, CB...

When the Palestinian Covenant removes the articles calling for the destruction of Israel...

That point's not entirely wrong, but completely irrelevant and generally used by those who want people to think that the PLO has not recognised Israel's right to exist and who like to ignore the Declaration of Principles...

September 9, 1993

Yitzhak Rabin
Prime Minister of Israel

Mr. Prime Minister,

The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments:

The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.

The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.

The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations.

The PLO considers that the signing of the Declaration of Principles constitutes a historic event, inaugurating a new epoch of peaceful coexistence, free from violence and all other acts which endanger peace and stability. Accordingly, the PLO renounces the use of terrorism and other acts of violence and will assume responsibility over all PLO elements and personnel in order to assure their compliance, prevent violations and discipline violators.

In view of the pormise of a new era and the signing of the Declaration of Principles and based on Palestinian acceptance of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid. Consequently, the PLO undertakes to submit to the Palestinian National Council for formal approval the necessary changes in regard to the Palestinian Covenant.


Sincerely,

Yasser Arafat
Chairman
The Palestine Liberation Organization

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace+Process/Guide+to+the+Peace+Process/Israel-PLO+Recognition+-+Exchange+of+Letters+betwe.htm

But seeing yr so interested in bits and pieces of out-of-date things in charters, do you know if Likud have removed this from their charter yet?

The Jordan River shall be the eastern border of the State of Israel, south of Lake Kinneret. This will be the permanent border between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. The Kingdom of Jordan may become a partner in the final arrangement between Israel and the Palestinians, in areas agreed upon in the negotiations.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Politics/likud.html

and when the 22 Arab states make treaties

Which 22 states are they? Do states have to make treaties with Israel just because they're Arab states or something? And what on earth does the relations between Israel and Qatar for example have to do with whether or not people should criticise the route the barrier is taking?

Violet...

[idontwantaname]

9. funding warfare...

CB please help me remember how much US tax $'s in foreign aid we give to israel?

[Colorado Blue]

13. I don't know. But it's probably information that's easily

accessible, since none of this stuff is secret.

I also do not know how Israel would have survived without help. The battle isn't between Israel and the Palestinian people, most of whom, like the Israelis, are caught in a battle not of their making.

This is a war between 6 million people and 500 million, between one state and 22, who have enormous lands and enormous resources - plus armed militians - all bent on her destruction. And the cost, the human toll - has been enormous. The percentages of dead, maimed and bereaved Israelis would, in American terms, be in the MILLIONS.

Do you think the US should simply leave Israel and her people to be destroyed? Do you think the onus for making peace should be entirely on the backs of the Israelis? WHAT ABOUT THE ARABS? Never in these criticisms of Israel do I hear any kind of corresponding critism of the Arab governments, their mullahs, their militias. Why not? Even well-researched critiques of Arab books, school books and television shows, sermons and lectures, which are full of hateful invective, result in outraged defensive reactions in this forum. Yet, it is absolutely impossible to conclude that such incitement DOESN'T fuel violence and make any kind of lasting peace nearly impossible. And this is beyond the Israelis or the West to control. It has to come from within Arab society but a little respect for this problem in the West would help - especially among the proArab community - which is tending to be found on the Left - the very community which should deplore such bigotry and deplore the violence it nurtures and creates.

Beyond that, Israel is a democratic society, a first-world culture with a developing economy - a society that, for all its imperfections, has produced something really unique in the entire world. People live here, who have come from all over the world and who belong to all faiths and all ethnicities. Most are or were, refugees from persecution and holocaust, explusion and war. Should the US simply leave them to perish?

I think people are missing the point here - not having studied history, or simply not having grasped the core reality: IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT ISRAEL DOES, DOESN'T DO, HASN'T DONE OR WILL DO. The hatred and the desire for her destruction are real, they exist, they have always existed - and therefore so does the need for defense. And unfortunately that fact has created a reaction within Israel and within many citizens of the West: anger and hatred and fear, antiArabism, and militarism - that are absolutely not a part of the Jewish culture OR the Zionist ideal and shouldn't be a part of the Western ideal either.

Meanwhile, Israel, in spite of this, is a vital place, an intellectual community of truly cutting-edge dimensions, the only state in the region which ISN'T based on repression of women, gays, religious minorities, ethnicities or immigrants. In many ways it's a small mirror of the US itself.

Shall the US let it be destroyed?

Tragically, since 1948 there has been precious little time for this state to grow into its true shape - it's always fighting.

I do know this: great amounts of American money have gone to support ARAB militaries, including Iraq and the Sauds; we armed both sides of the Iran/Iraq conflict that killed a million people.

And that's also true of the Soviets who funded several Arab states and the PLO among other radical organizations.

Israel was, throughout the Cold War, caught in a web between the Soviets and the West. And, Saudi Arabia and other oil rich states are also funding terror and buying weapons. What you are seeing today is the result of decades of war, global political machinations and a very real clash between cultures. It isn't going to be solved by singing Kumbayah around the campfire.

[Violet_Crumble]

19. 22 Arab states are NOT at war with Israel...

Repeating the same falsehood over and over doesn't make it true. Nor are the populations of the Arab states all bent on the destruction of Israel....

Violet...

[Behind the Aegis]

21. But most don't recognize Israel.

That is a real problem.

[Violet_Crumble]

22. How does that translate into being at war?

It doesn't, yet the poster has repeated the same incorrect claim repeatedly despite polite hinting that the claim was false...

Violet...

[pelsar]

6. the palesetenians need our help...

thats exactly it...when israelis are involved the mood changes.....the israeli public knows very well that israelis are out there against the walls placment...been on the news a lot as well as a very good documentary by israels most famous newscaster, and many have seen for ourselves....

the trick is now to mobilize far more of the israeli public and for that the palestenains have to do their part.....stop the bombers....we're not asking for 100% as we know that is impossible, we are asking for a loud and clear PR effort, that is not ambiguous, no double talk that clearly states:

NO MORE SUCIDE BOMBERS!

no more rocks thrown at protests....and when that is actually happening, then and only then will the israeli center, moderate left and right join in. But the message has to be unambigous....until then...we dont feel right about the games our military plays with the palestenain farmers lands...yet we dont feel "bad enough" as we dont "trust" the other side to not take advantage of it either, as the jihadnikim have done with every other humanitarium gesture on our part.

[idontwantaname]

11. palestinian farmers and villages...

openly invite israeli peace activists to protests... however is those cities like nablus and camps like balata where the challenge is and the most work needs be done.

... i remember a couple weeks back there was the report of israeli soldiers "lost" in nablus... and the returned safely??? it was all very odd.

[eyl]

12. Turned out to be a false report

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x95013

But then..there are also Israelis who entered Palestinian towns to meet frieds or business associates...and came out feet first.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. Parallel complaints...

any complaint against the fence should have a parallel complaint against the suicide bombers and their attempts...

Okay, so any complaint against suicide bombings should have a parallel complaint against the route the barrier takes. Strangely enough, I don't ever see those parallel complaints...

Violet...

[pelsar]

15. they exists....

as i dontwantaname has written, when israelis are out protesting, the soldiers are far less violent..., in certain sections where there are good relations the israelis and palestenains changed the route or help make sure the palestenains have access to their lands.

so there is an israeli contengent protesting the wall as well as helping in modifying its route..whats missing is a larger part of the israeli population getting involved, but that wont happen until we see something from the palestenains.

anyway nothing is going to happen until gaza is pulled out....kind of a test for all sides involved

[Coastie for Truth]

5. Asking the Saudi Oil Czars to give back their

ill-gotten gain to the Arab proletariat is a pure waste of time--

Let's try

Lee Raymond, PhD
Chief Executive Officer
Exxon Mobil Corporation
5959 Las Colinas Boulevard
Irving, Texas 75039-2298
[phone]

or

David J. O'Reilly, PhD
Chief Executive Officer
Texaco Chevron Corp
6001 Bollinger Canyon Rd.
San Ramon, CA 94583, U.S.A.
(925)-842-1000

or

Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia,
601 New Hampshire Avenue, N.W.,
Washington DC 20037

[phone]

and get them to return some of their ill-gotten gain - the birth right of the Arab proletariat.

If these people - and their predecessors - and the Saudi "Oil Czars" hadn't mercilessly ripped off the Arab people - there would be no terrorists and there would be peace in the lands and a two state solution.

[idontwantaname]

10. thanks for the info...

those greedy jokers arent getting any of my money anytime soon as i bike instead of drive (in los angeles no less). btw... i heard a rumor CITGO is a venezuelan company... not that thats any better but its not saudi.

[Colorado Blue]

14. I think that's very true. How much hatred and unrest is

simply the result of poverty?

And, there's been little in the way of investment, no desire shown to create infrastructure and jobs. People in huge swaths of territory are surviving on subsistence farming, which with global warming, population growth and desertization is becoming increasingly less able to support human life as well as leaving people in a medieval culture while the rest of the world lives in the 21st century.

I have had personal experience with this, when I was performing with my Arab musicians, in the '70's and '80's. Frequently we were called to perform for wealthy Arabs. One notable occasion, in Milwaukee, was a large gathering of Kuwaitis.

My band went on strike ON THE SPOT. They were furious because they were Jordanian, Egyptian, Palestinian and POOR. The oud player and I had to kick in our fees to get them to play at all. But the subject of conversation all that night and for quite awhile thereafter was the selfishness of the oil mavens, while millions of Arabs went hungry, uneducated and unemployed.

There's a link in this forum about the real purchasing power of the Arab states and even most of the oil rich states are more poor, per capita, than Israel or Greece. And they're not well off at all, with little in the way of resources. The states without oil are DESPERATELY poor, in many cases: in Syria I think the annual percapita income is about $4,000.

[Coastie for Truth]

16. It is about time that people in I/P

realize - the massive exploitation of the Arab proletariat by their own rulers and by the "Oil Interests" is a bigger cause of unrest and violence then a piddling little Jewish state smaller then NJ.

And when "The Revolution" hits the oil states - it will make the Russian Revolution and the fall of the Romanovs look like "an orderly transfer of power."

It's so much easier to blame the Jews/Zionists/Likudniks/Israelis then to look in the mirror and at the gas pump ---- and "follow the money"-- and much of my career has been in a little niche of the energy industry --- next to the belly of the beast.

[idontwantaname]

17. how much do you contribute a week to gas?

i appreciate your message here about oil and corruption... not only is it a problem in the middle east but in s.america as well... small villages and farmers (again with the farmers) are being harassed and terrorized by oil companies who want to turn their land (homes/farms ect...) into a barren wasteland by ripping up the earth and sucking it dry then leaving.

you can not fight them because its big oil that runs a lot of this country so the only thing you can do short of picking up arms is to boycott. if everyone who felt this way did they might just listen... because to drive a car to your protest isnt going to change anything.

[Coastie for Truth]

18. I drive a Prius

live in a pedestrian friendly, transit friendly, planned community "transit village".

Since 9/11 I have cut my use of residential electricity 20%, my driving mileage by 45% (I "retired" ;) ), my gasoline consumption by 65%, and my air travel by 90% since 9/11/01.

I still work part time from my condo -- and over 3/4's of my career has been in various and sundry forms of the non-petroleum energy industry (synthetic fuels from coal while in school; started in nuke, industrial electrochemistry (as in batteries and fuel cells), photovoltaics, and co-gen/distributed gen systems integration. Never worked for the petroleum industry.

[idontwantaname]

24. very cool coastie...

thats great to hear about your adjusted consumption and lifestyle changes... including the part time retirement.

[eyl]

20. I'd say poverty is an indirect cause of the strife,

not a direct one.

After all, if you check the background of most suicide bombers (or OBL, for that matter), you'll find that many of them are well-educated and come from fairly affluent (at least) families.

However, promoting hatred of Israel (and to a lesser extent the US, and others)) is a popular means for many of the governments (and some other orgs) of the ME to divert their citizens' attention from their own mismanegement and oppression (including the resultant poverty).

[Coastie for Truth]

23. Some general thoughts

I want to tie together a few inter-related issues in this thread.

Key point: The exploitive nature of the economic development of the region’s mineral wealth has only benefited the elites – at the price of the proletariat.

In my opinion the level of violence is funded by – and benefits – the elites – again at massive cost to the Palestinian, Saudi, and Israeli proletariat.

The biggest short term winners are the mineral wealth exploiters – US, British, and Dutch companies (in bed with Bush and the House of Saud) and the Saudi Royals.

The biggest loser are – as always – the proletariat – the proletariat on both sides.

I am planning a blog to "question" the mineral exploiters (in the style of Greg Aharonian's blog on the computer industry).

One appender has asked:

Funding warfare... CB please help me remember how much US tax $'s in foreign aid we give to Israel?

The proper question is not “how much US tax $'s in foreign aid we give to Israel?" but how of our $2.559 a gallon goes to political campaign contributions, and to the House of Saud (Arabic Romanovs), and how much (really not how much, but how little)of that "skim" to the House of Saud (Romanov) wends its way down to the Arab Proletariat? Might be interesting to compare and contrast the House of Saud to the Romanovs?


Another appender has asked

22 Arab states are not at war with Israel … Repeating the same falsehood over and over doesn't make it true. Nor are the populations of the Arab states all bent on the destruction of Israel....

there are several proper responses:

1. As one appender has pointed out, most don’t recognize Israel.

2. As I am planning/hoping to treat in my upcoming blog, the Arab states are at war with the "Jewish people" per se – forget about Sandy Weil and Bob Ruben. The Arabs have declared economic war against the Jewish people per se – as individuals and not as political people or Zionists – (see The economic war against the Jews by Nelson and Priddie) – and the mineral exploitation industry is as complicit in this war (, see also ) as in the House of Romanov style exploitation and waste of the Arab proletariat’s mineral wealth.


3. See my appends 5, 16, and 18 in this thread.

4. Two appenders have said

I'd say poverty is an indirect cause of the strife, not a direct one.

After all, if you check the background of most suicide bombers (or OBL, for that matter), you'll find that many of them are well-educated and come from fairly affluent (at least) families.

However, promoting hatred of Israel (and to a lesser extent the US, and others)) is a popular means for many of the governments (and some other orgs) of the ME to divert their citizens' attention from their own mismanagement and oppression (including the resultant poverty).


and


…how much of the hatred and unrest is … simply the result of poverty?

And, there's been little in the way of investment, no desire shown to create infrastructure and jobs. People in huge swaths of territory are surviving on subsistence farming, which with global warming, population growth and desertization is becoming increasingly less able to support human life as well as leaving people in a medieval culture while the rest of the world lives in the 21st century.

I have had personal experience with this, when I was performing with my Arab musicians, in the '70's and '80's. Frequently we were called to perform for wealthy Arabs. One notable occasion, in Milwaukee, was a large gathering of Kuwaitis.

My band went on strike ON THE SPOT. They were furious because they were Jordanian, Egyptian, Palestinian and POOR. The oud player and I had to kick in our fees to get them to play at all. But the subject of conversation all that night and for quite awhile thereafter was the selfishness of the oil mavens, while millions of Arabs went hungry, uneducated and unemployed.

There's a link in this forum about the real purchasing power of the Arab states and even most of the oil rich states are more poor, per capita, than Israel or Greece. And they're not well off at all, with little in the way of resources. The states without oil are DESPERATELY poor, in many cases: in Syria I think the annual percapita income is about $4,000.


have hit another nail on the head. These sincere but misguided "disinvestment" exercises by people of good will are having some effect on Israel, but a much greater negative impact on future investment in Gaza and the West Bank.

As I have previously pointed out in this forum

The capital markets, the "Green Funds" industry, and the Church and University investment managers will soon be challenged by a demand for private investment capital from PALESTINIAN entrepreneurs.

It will be important - critical - from a political perspective and a humanitarian perspective to get investment capital into an independent PALESTINE quickly -- and to get public investment into PALESTINE quickly to build an infrastructure.

Some guidelines-
1) Not mineral extraction investment by the traditional mineral extraction players -- that's ExxonMobil and United Fruit (and European and American colonialism) all over again.

2) Don't count on the locals - on either side of the Green Line or the Fence or whatever. Their economies have been wrecked by conflict -- and exploitation (by the mineral exploitation industries - you betcher sweet bippie I am biased as heck on mineral exploiters - "I growed up in the coal patch of Northern Appalachia" -- and I have seen how Big Oil plays the game).

This will be as exciting as rebuilding Europe and Japan after WW2 - and the penalties of failure will be just as great.


3) Don't count on a "quick return" - might take as long as a generation -- but remember, the Arabs invented modern "Arabic" numbers (ever try multiplying Roman numerals), modern metallurgy/materials science, and kept medicine and pharmacy alive during Europe's "Dark Ages."

4) The penalties for either (a) not trying, or (b) trying, doing a half fast job and failing -- are not worth contemplating.

5) And don't blame the magnitude of the challenge on Israel or Zionism or Jews -- that is a friggin cop-out by those who know nothing about the area (including North Africa, and the Persian Gulf).


The $2 Billion for evacuating the OT's is chump change. There is a new civilization to be built on the foundations of the Ottoman civilization -- and it won't be cheap --- BUT FAILURE WILL BE TOO EXPENSIVE TO CONTEMPLATE.

- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=95493&mesg_id=95724