Israel Has Always Faced Arab Genocide

[Herschel]

To fully understand current conflicts in the Middle East, history must be recalled. Acknowledged by the United Nations and the civilized community of nations, Israel became a recognized and sovereign state on May 14, 1948. Immediately, the five armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (which was renamed Jordan one year later, in 1949), Lebanon and Iraq invaded the fledgling country. Their combined intention, celebrated enthusiastically all over the Arab world, was expressed plainly and publicly by Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League: "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre, which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."

Hence, scarcely a few years after the Holocaust and resultant identification of Crimes Against Humanity, the intent of these Arab states toward the tiny new State of Israel was openly genocidal.

On May 15, 1967, Israel's nineteenth Independence Day, Egyptian troops began moving openly into the Sinai, massing aggressively near the Israeli border. By May 18, Syrian troops, too, were preparing for battle along the Golan Heights, almost 3000 feet above the Galilee, from which they had been shelling Israel's farms and villages for several years.

Egypt's Gamal Abd el-Nasser ordered the U.N. Emergency Force (UNEF), stationed in the Sinai since 1956, to withdraw. After the withdrawal of UNEF, the Voice of the Arabs proclaimed, on May 18, 1967: "As of today there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the U.N. about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is total war, which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence."

Two days later, a jubilant echo came from Hafez Assad, then the Syrian Defense Minister: "Our forces are now entirely ready... to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland.... The time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation."

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=2692

In spite of the ocean of hostile neighbors, little Israel survives.

[wtmusic]

1. Little Israel survives and tramples the rights of others

while they're at it.

[userdave2061]

8. rights

No nation or individual has any "right" to blow up busses full of kids on purpose. Defending onself is not "tramples the rights of others".

[Darranar]

10. Occupying militarily a large section of land...

abusing and killign its inhabitants, and routinely wreking their infrastructure is trampling their rights.

[Trajan]

2. Wittle Israel .....

You have just slid over an entire chapter of Zionist Terrorism prior to the establishment of the State of Israel: a history replete with vicious attacks against arab populations by the like of Irgun and their ilk ....

I am always reluctant to believe the saintly and angelic images of a perfectly good nation of perfectly good people annihilating perfectly evil 'enemies' ...

SURELY you jest ....

The arabs have LEGITIMATE rights as human beings in the area now known as Israel ..... to deny this is ludicrous and obviously an extreme bias ....

[StandWatie]

4. what's even wierder..

is to hear this parroted in the American press which doesn't extend this "purity of arms" bullshit to any other nation and no one else in the world would take it seriously unless it was some patriotic nonsense about their own country.

[HereSince1628]

3. Ahhh, did you really want to imply that . . .

the Arab world of 1948 was uncivilized? That seems less like a place to start a fair and balanced discussion, and more like bait for a fight.

[Fight_n_back]

12. You want a fair and balanced discussion?

This is my bar for being a civilized society...

Do you stone women for losing their virginity?

Do you name schools after people who blow themselves up at weddings?

Are you an oppressive oligarchy that opens schools around the world that preach a mid 1500s ideolgy espousing terrorism as a legitmate tool of god?

Lets face it, Saudi Arabia (where "Arabs" come from) is run by the equivalent of the klan. Arab intellectuals themselves write that the major problems in the Arab world have little to do with Jews or Israel but in their own nations inability to modernize.

No the Arab world is not civilized. There is nothing inherent culturally or ethnically keeping it fro being civilized, it is a lingering effect of colonilaism and our governments support of oppressive oligarchies in order to maintain a cheap oil supply but don't for a minute pretend that you would find it an acceptable place to live.

[Forkboy]

13. Who are we,the US,to judge

How many people do we put to death each year?

Not saying your points aren't valid,especially your last paragraph,but for me the US is becoming less and less a fair arbiter of civilization everyday.

"Western civilization? That would be a good idea!" - Ghandi

[Fight_n_back]

14. Cut ot out

When did being a liberal mean not having standards?

I am against the death penalty so by your logic I can "judge".

There is no way, by any use of a standard, that Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Yemen or most of PAkistan coould be classified as "civilized". You know how you think people should be treated and therefore you have a standard. Don't be coy with it just because you are afraid that oil prices will go up.

[Forkboy]

15. Jeez

remind to agree with you again sometime :eyes:

Now,let me place my head back on after you've bitten it off....

[StandWatie]

16. you got in the way of his anti-Muslim rant..

bad, bad, idea, everyone needs to know how evil they are :eyes:

[Fight_n_back]

17. Where did I mention

Islam?

The majority of Muslims in the world aren't Arab and live in exceedingly peacful nations.

Please point out what parts of the misogyny and oligarchal governments of the Middle East you admire? You are willing to tear into Israel and the Jews who live there but I can't point out that stoning a woman for having sex isn't civilized?

Criticizing the Saudi government is not "anti muslim"

[Violet_Crumble]

19. More stereotyping...

Yr not just criticising the Saudi govt. Yr painting the entire Arab World with a wide and innacurate brush and using examples of Muslim extremism to try to support yr claim that the entire Arab World's like this....

btw, stoning women to death is done in Northern Nigeria, which is in no way part of the Arab World. Anyway, it's important to remember that the US isn't all that crash hot in the way women are treated, especially when it comes to reproductive choice...

Violet...

[StandWatie]

21. rural Pakistan and Iran

both have stonings occasionally but they are extrajudicial.

[The Magistrate]

43. A Small Demurr, Ms. Crumble

Comparing the status and situation of women in the United States to the status and situation of women in Saudi Arabia is to compare a lightening bug to lightening. It is immeasureably better in every conceivable legal sense, and every practical social sense. In a larger view, it is precisely this restriction of women by religiousity and tradition which accounts for much of the difficulty afflicting the Arab world, and the Moslem world as well: where half the population is effectively barred from making its fullest contribution, the result must be a considerable retardation by compare to a society which does not so restrict itself. Even if one argues the position that Western civilization does not yet allow the fullest possible participation by women, it still cannot be seriously maintained it does not allow a much greater such than does the Islamic world, and the same gap still obtains in consequence: it is simply not quite as wide as it could be.

Mr. Yang's points are not so much off in themselves; the weakness of his argument is in conflating civilization as a concept with those standards he approves of, and that indeed most of us here probably approve of. Any complexly organized society is a civilization: one civilization may well contain features abhorent to those brought up in another. Rome was certainly a civilization, and among its principles was that compassion and mercy consituted moral failings, whereas we today are accustomed to feel as principles the very opposite. Civilized Chinese were deeply shocked on learning that a Westerner would carry on his daily affairs within a day or so after the death of his father, and that Western religious thought held no solicitude for the shades of the ancestors, and was indeed willing to consign many of them to eternal torment. To say a society or culture is un-civilized is not really a very good way to say you do not approve it; the concepts are not interchangeable.

[StandWatie]

20. you picked out a bunch of muslim countries

to bitch and moan about "civilising" (a colonial concept in and of itself).

I know damn well if someone started dishing on the way women are treated in Ultra-Orthodox communities in Israel and calling it "uncivilised" you would be in full out anti-anti-semite mode.

[Fight_n_back]

22. You know nothing

I actually deplore the way women are treated by ultra orthodox Jews. The difference is Israel (and Brooklyn) is not a theocracy where the rule of law is a two thousand year old book. The women in those communities are free to leave.


I never said that any country should be forced into civilzation only that we should not be supporting it through our military might and trillions of dollars in oil money.

Funny that you find it so easy to attack Israel but can find nothing wrong with the Arab nations in the region. One can only wonder why that is.

[Darranar]

23. They don't recieve as much US aid as Israel does.

Funny that you find it so easy to attack Israel but can find nothing wrong with the Arab nations in the region. One can only wonder why that is.

[StandWatie]

28. Egypt does but..

it was basically a bribe to remove Egypt from the rest of the Arab world so Israel could attack Lebanon. It was done for Israel's benefit so you can actually tack that on.

[Darranar]

31. Not as much aid...

Israel recieves more.

[Fight_n_back]

30. Then I guess you have no problem

with the Chinese occupation of Tibet since they recieve no US aid...

[Darranar]

33. I have a problem with it...

I hate the Chinese occupation of Tibet. The difference is that my money isn't going there. I don't feel responsible.

Anyway, very few people defend the occupation of Tibet. Far more defend the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

[Fight_n_back]

35. ooops n/t

.

[Fight_n_back]

36. Thats ludicrous

there are roughly a BILLION more people who defend the occupation of Tibet.

There is no one on this message board who defends the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, the majority of Israel does not support the occupation of the West BAnk and Gaza.

Very little argument on this message board has to do with the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

[Darranar]

39. Actually, it does...

concerning when the Israelis should withdraw and from where.

I assure you, there are many in support of the occupation as well. Just because DU doesn't accept right-wing fanatics doesn't mean taht they don't exist.

[StandWatie]

24. you know nothing..

Your sad, little history of the region comes reads like something you teach kids at Hebrew School because the story is too complicated to tell. I don't give a rip what Ultra-Orthodox Jews or Ultra-Orthodox Muslims do to their own fellow believers in their invisible friend. I would suspend all military "aid" everywhere.


on edit: you deplore it but would you characterize it as "uncivilized"?

[Herschel]

26. Well said

I too am curious for why Israel is attacked so freely. Is it the worst country on earth? I think we know the answer.

[StandWatie]

29. because I don't want any part of any of this?

I really don't give a wet fart if Jews live in the Levantine or not. I really, really, really, don't think it's worth trying to refight the Crusades over.

[Forkboy]

41. Maybe because people like yourself

spit in the face of the rule of law,then try to fob off on others how Israel is such a shining beacon of democracy,something you plainly dont care about.

[Violet_Crumble]

18. Stereotyping...

Portraying the Arab world as one large group where all are uncivilised, all indulge in extreme stuff like Sharia law, and there have been no attempts at modernisation is stereotyping, and more importantly blatantly false....


Violet...

[Fight_n_back]

27. What do you consider the Arab world?

The nations run by Arabs are non democratic. This does not mean that people from this geographic are uincapable of it. There are also Muslim democracies in other parts of the world so it is not the religeon.

Someone here mentions Iran (which is not an Arab country) and you are concerned with my sterotyping?

I have standards of behavior for societies. The nations that form the Arab league fall uniformly short of those standards.

You have standards of behavior for nations but seem unwilling to apply them evenly. The reason is for you to figure out.

The people in the Arab world are being supremely fucked. If I went on a Marxist tirade about the capitalist and colinalist masters of the proletariat in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Labanon, Iraq,et al you would react differently to the comments.

the fact is that those nations are run either by military thugs, religeous wackos, medievel style monarchs or a combination of the three (Yemen doesn't seem to be run by anyone, actually). It doesn't mean it is the US's responsibility to do anything about it but it certainly means we should consider NOT supporting it.

My question is why is okay for you to sterotype Isralis, Zionists, orhtodox Jews (about which you know nothing), the IDF and American Jews but someone else can't condemn a nation like Saudi Arabia that exports terror and is responsible for an event we all found horrifying? Its weird isn't it?

[Violet_Crumble]

42. Huh??

The nations run by Arabs are non democratic.

What about Jordan? It's a democracy...

You have standards of behavior for nations but seem unwilling to apply them evenly. The reason is for you to figure out.

Actually, I don't have different standards, which is the reason you can't give any concrete examples and resort to making implications that I'm not particularly interested in pursuing...


My question is why is okay for you to sterotype Isralis, Zionists, orhtodox Jews (about which you know nothing), the IDF and American Jews but someone else can't condemn a nation like Saudi Arabia that exports terror and is responsible for an event we all found horrifying? Its weird isn't it?


Not really. Considering I don't stereotype any of the groups you rattled off, and considering you weren't talking about Saudi Arabia specifically, but about the 'Arab World', the only folk who would find anything weird would be those who don't bother reading what people post...

Violet...

[wtmusic]

5. Herschel, you still there?

Weigh in, please.

[Malikshah]

11. Methinks...

The deed is done. The message and the link is posted. That task being finished--one's job is done for the day.

I've been reading the threads here and the pattern tends to be that way. Not always, mind you, but more often than one would think.

[Cassandra]

44. I think that Herschel

is in an earlier time zone than we are and may chime back in later.

[TolstoyAndy]

6. But let's talk about today, and about the future

and I quote:

http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.08.29/oped3.html

AUGUST 29, 2003

A Failed Israeli Society Collapses While Its Leaders Remain Silent
By AVRAHAM BURG

The Zionist revolution has always rested on two pillars: a just path and an ethical leadership. Neither of these is operative any longer. The Israeli nation today rests on a scaffolding of corruption, and on foundations of oppression and injustice. As such, the end of the Zionist enterprise is already on our doorstep. There is a real chance that ours will be the last Zionist generation. There may yet be a Jewish state here, but it will be a different sort, strange
and ugly.

Avraham Burg was speaker of Israel's Knesset from 1999 to 2003 and is a former chairman of the Jewish Agency for Israel.

====

Who cares about 50 years ago? The neighborhood has changed. Israel will not be pushed into the sea, but it will rot from within if it seeks to continue on this path of oppression.

[argyl]

7. And the oppressed have become the oppressor

xx

[Gimel]

9. Power oppresses

Yes it's a truism. But terrorists and terorism oppresses as well. That is the aim. Their actions have exceeded the limits of human tolerance. The innocent blood of their people is on their hands.
No power on earth has acted purely in war time. When under attack or when responding to attacks, innocent deaths are part of the conflict. Accidental deaths happen daily, as well as deaths that could have been avoided with extra precaution. Sitting at home in your air-conditioned room comfortable chair, reading the news, and innocent deaths are upsetting. Just remember, that you cannot imagine the true situation, and no report is adequate for that..

[Darranar]

25. Junk...

They take the goals of a few Islamic extremists and enlarge them to indicate that the entire Arab world and anyone within it doesn't want piece.

Typical Israeli National News.

The Moledet Party has advocated transfer of the Palestinians: Does that mean that Israel as a whole supports it? A certain Knesset member suggested killing the Palestinian prisoners: Does that mean that Israel as a whole supports it?

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[Fight_n_back]

32. A few Islamic extremist like

Nassar, the Husseins (jordan and Iraq)the Saudi royal family, the Syrian government, the government of Iran..you know, marginalized wackos.

[drdon326]

34. Not to mention a few groups....

al-queda
hamas
islamic jihad
pflp
al aqsa MURDERS brigade
milf

[Fight_n_back]

37. DrDon, you know better than that

those are all Mossad front groups that masqurade as Arab groups for PR purposes. Jews are real good at PR.

[Darranar]

40. Okay, here we agree....

the suggestion that those terrorist organizations are Mossad front groups is outrageous and ridiculous.

[Darranar]

38. Sharon, Likud, the settlers, Moledet...

AIPAC, Israeli National News... your point?

[Lithos]

45. Locking

The debate has deteriorated to a large extent.

Please remember the heuristics by which the memes of civilization, morality and culture are defined vary from people to people, sub-gens to sub-gens, place to place and time to time. Because we are often blinded by our own support for our own value memes, it is too easy to pass judgement and find fault with those competing memes. The result is often hypocritical stereotyping and blind prejudice - all of which are against DU guidelines.


Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground