do *these* things actually exist?

[leftofthedial]

1. greed (lust for power and wealth)?
2. technology?
3. belief that human life is expendable?
4. control of investigative institutions?
5. control of media and propaganda?

anywhere? anyone?

[BuddyYoung]

1. CT'ers everywhere will no doubt agree that they ALL exist. nt

nt

[leftofthedial]

2. what about you?

[BuddyYoung]

3. Yes, they all exist. Yes, 911 was an inside job. Yes, this place is

crawling with covert truth suppressors, or else a few people post using different usernames. Yes, most ruling elites hate democracy, do not value life that isn't their own or that of a few people in their family, are amoral or morally bankrupt, have no conscience, no ability or willingness to empathize, respect money more than character, believe that the ends justify the means and therefore have no qualms about acts of state-sponsored terrorism such as 911, believe that taxes are only for the little people, are willing to "compromise" to the extent that costs are socialized in return for profits being privatized, support having more monopolies, believe in slavery, are quite willing for black and brown people to be human cannon fodder in wars and invasions of conquest, think that bribery and buying elections are just part of "taking care of business", resent having to pay some of the costs for public education and believe it's right to make sure that the masses have a limited education, an inability to think and engage in critical reasoning, and only a very limited ability to use language intelligently, and that ain't all, but this is.

Anything else I can help you with?

[AZCat]

4. You seem awfully certain...

that there are "truth suppressors" infesting this forum. Since I have only seen the label (or similar ones) applied to those who disagree with you, I am disinclined to believe you have actual knowledge of any "agents of dischord" posting here. Instead I think you are using a McCarthyite tactic to bolster your own arguments. Perhaps you could enlighten me by pointing out how you have identified these culprits, or shall I continue thinking you are only interested in suppressing opposing views?

[BuddyYoung]

5. They're very sneaky, but they're all around you. Promise not to tell, and

I might let you in on who some of them are.

I'm glad to know that you are not disinclined to forgive us our Press passes as we press past those who hold opposing views.

[AZCat]

6. I try to not make promises.

Bad track record.

I didn't know you had a press pass. Are you a reporter?

[BuddyYoung]

8. Then you're on your own as far as figuring out who they are.

nt

[sabbat hunter]

17. all around us?

that sounds a bit paranoid if you ask me.

[BuddyYoung]

19. YOU'RE paranoid? Who is after you? Osama? Cheney? Bob Novak?

nt

[sabbat hunter]

21. as far as i know

no one is after me.


but who are you refering to in this post?

"They're very sneaky, but they're all around you. Promise not to tell, and

I might let you in on who some of them are.

I'm glad to know that you are not disinclined to forgive us our Press passes as we press past those who hold opposing views"


who is "they", how do you know that they are all around.


and what exactly do you mean in the last sentence "I'm glad to know that you are not disinclined to forgive us our Press passes as we press those who hold opposing views"


that sentence makes no sense. please clarify.

[Jazz2006]

7. You nailed it, AZCat.

It does smack of McCarthyism tactics.

So much so that I'm inclined to think that if there are any actual "truth suppressors" here, they are self proclaimed "9/11 truth seekers" repeating the conspiracy theories over and over again (without ever backing up those theories with anything resembling fact or evidence) to prevent the real questions from ever having to be answered as they allow the corrupt Bush administration to shrug off any and all legitimate questions about the failures, negligence, corruption, misfeasance, malfeasance, and screwups about WHY the attacks of September 11/01 were able to succeed as "whacko nutjob conspiracy theorist ramblings".

[BuddyYoung]

9. Then it's agreed that truth suppressors use McCarthy-type tactics?

nt

[Jazz2006]

11. Just your self proclaimed "truthseeker" pals...

The rest of us have no desire to suppress the truth and have no need to resort to such tactics.

[BuddyYoung]

15. U R not only a jazzy lawyer(?), you're full of the milk of human kindness

All the other CT'ers leap to the defense of your fact-based musings, and why not? Most people enjoy the benefits of your insights and accompanying humor. Not that I can really speak for "most people", but you know the riff, ralph.

[leftofthedial]

12. thank you.

I'm no fan of truth suppressors.

And the Official Conspiracy Theory is laughably ludicrous.

Tongue suppressors, on the other hand, I kind of like.

[hpot]

10. Watch this video that proves government foreknowledge..

..and tell me what you think.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6757267008400743688

[sabbat hunter]

16. how exactly

does this video prove your statement?


they proved no such thing IMHO. just rehashed the same old CT that are often without facts or proof, but simply opinions and seeing things that arent there.

[BuddyYoung]

18. Which CT are you referring to & are YOU a CT'er? If not, explain why not

nt

[sabbat hunter]

20. i am referring to

the video. what is talked about in the video is complete conspiracy theory garbage.

i do not believe in conspiracy theories.

I believe that the 911 commission report had serious errors and ommissions. such as what happened to flight 93. how come the bush ignored the osama bin laden report. why is the current regime so incompetant.



what do YOU believe?

[hpot]

22. There are statements given by government officials in the video..

..you can't get more legitimate that that.

Are you claiming all the military, FBI and government whistleblowers are lying?

[sabbat hunter]

23. the statements

are cherry picked to death. almost as bad as * cherry picked intelligence to justify a war against iraq. or how * cherry picked research studies on global warming to try and show global warming ISNT happening.


when you go into an investigation with an agenda, it colors everything that you do and human nature is to use only the information that makes your case and to leave everything else out.

[hpot]

24. Prove it

All I see are accusations without substance. Why don't you list the the "cherry picked" examples?

[sabbat hunter]

25. when ever you see

quotes like ".........blah .........." that means there was something before and afterwards that was said.


why only list the small part of the statement, why not reveal the entire quote.



there is your proof.

[hpot]

28. Links to back up statements in video

"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A former member of a classified Pentagon intelligence unit told CNN on Wednesday that information he tried to provide to the commission investigating the September 11, 2001, attacks never made it to the panel's members."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/17/sept.11.hijackers/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Able Danger data destroyed

"In his book Countdown to Terror,<9> Weldon asserted that an Able Danger chart produced in 1999 identifying 9/11 hijackers Mohamed Atta, Marwan al-Shehhi, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi had been presented to then-Deputy National Security Advisor Jim Steinberg. Weldon went on to claim that he had personally presented the chart to then-Deputy National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley in 2001, days after the 9/11 attacks."

House intelligence committee chairman Peter Hoekstra is currently investigating the matter at Weldon's request, but is reported by Time as having cautioned against "hyperventilating" before the completion of a "thorough" probe.

Pentagon officials said they were unaware that any Able Danger material named Atta. They declined to comment on the reports as they worked to clarify the matter.

"There's something very sinister going on here that really troubles me," Weldon told FOX News on August 25, blasting the 9/11 commission for not investigating the Able Danger claims. Weldon said some panel members were trying to smear Shaffer and Able Danger.

"What's the Sept. 11 commission got to hide?" Weldon asked. "The commission is trying to spin this because they're embarrassed about what's coming out. In two weeks with two staffers, I've uncovered more in this regard than they did with 80 staffers and $15 million of taxpayer money."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Danger
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"August 22, 2001: O’Neill Quits FBI in Frustration; Misses Important Warnings"

"Counterterrorism expert John O’Neill resigns from the FBI. He says it is partly because of the recent power play against him, but also because of repeated obstruction of his investigations into al-Qaeda. In his last act, he signs papers ordering FBI investigators back to Yemen to resume the USS Cole investigation, now that Barbara Bodine is leaving as ambassador (they arrive a couple days before 9/11). He never hears the CIA warning about hijackers Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar sent out just one day later. He also apparently is not told about the arrest of Zacarias Moussaoui on August 15, 2001 ; nor does he attend a June meeting when the CIA reveals some of what it knows about Alhazmi and Almihdhar. The FBI New York office eventually hears of Walid Arkeh’s warning that the WTC would be attacked, but presumably not in time for O’Neill to hear it."

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-1817
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Dec. 19, 2002 — Two veteran FBI investigators say they were ordered to stop investigations into a suspected terror cell linked to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network and the Sept. 11 attacks.

In a dramatic interview with ABCNEWS, FBI special agents and partners Robert Wright and John Vincent say they were called off criminal investigationsof suspected terrorists tied to the deadly bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa. U.S. officials say al Qaeda was responsible for the embassy attacks and the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States. "

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=131907&page=1

[leftofthedial]

33. what conspiracy theory?

I'm unaware of any explanation, official or otherwise, of what happened on 9-11, that is not a conspiracy theory . . .

:shrug:

[hpot]

37. Obfuscation meant to hide the real issue of 9/11 government witnesses

Some here are hellbent on adding noise to the 9/11 truth discussions. It can be out of ignorance, denial and even complicity. Can some participants be agents? Decide for yourself. Stick around here long enough and you will see how the official government 9/11 theorists work their magic.

[BuddyYoung]

31. Tons of posters here "rehash the same old CT" Bushco cooked-up. Do

you realize how confusing it is whenever people are unsure WHICH conspiracy theory you're referring to? For the longest time I thought that with your peace symbol avatar and everything, whenever you used the term "CT", you meant the CT that has not and cannot be proven, because it's a fairy tale cooked-up by Bushco to cover up the fact that 911 was an inside job.

[mirandapriestly]

13. Excellent, I was trying to think of a pun thread for

the other one with the same name. Yes, THOSE things DO exist and 9-11 was an inside job which is the majority opinion on DU. Strange that the Official Theory shills increase as the number of people who believe the 9-11 lie decrease. What does that mean? They are ALL over the internet, every thing you see and they all say the same thing: NUTS! kooks!, but they can't support the official theory with any facts. It's such a medieval mindset.

[BuddyYoung]

14. "Medieval mindset"? Or garden variety propaganda tactics? nt

nt

[mirandapriestly]

30. If not one

then the other.

[sabbat hunter]

26. what facts are there

for the CT that float around all the time? all i see is opinion, guesses, sometimes outlandish claims, use of cherry picked statements.


i do not believe that the 911 commission tells all, but i also think it is far closer to the real truth than the CTs that float about.

[BuddyYoung]

27. Don't you know the definition of the word "conspiracy"? NO? Look it up.

Your posts often refer to "the CT", and I assume you mean the conspiracy theory promoted by Bush and his supporters here at DU. You know - the notion that 911 was a conspiracy cooked-up by Osama & his coked-up band of 19 muslim fanatic seekers of 72 vestal virgins. You believe and support THAT conspiracy, right? You haven't found any evidence that makes you even question, much less DOUBT that Osama is so powerful that he would have access to the technology and other resources needed to defeat the U.S. Govt's national security and defense apparatus, right? You don't have any reason to question the incredible LUCK Osama had in choosing the very same day that all those military exercises just happened to be taking place so that they aided in the safe carrying-out of the conspiracy. You don't have any reason to question whether or not Osama really was that lucky, right?

Personally, I don't believe in conspiracies, but I do know something about some of the more well-known ones like 911, the assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK, Nino Aquino, Gulf of Tonkin, October 1980 Surprise, the conspiracy to assassinate Reagan and replace him with Poppy, the first Golf War, Anthrax, Senator Wellstone, Chechnya, U.S. elections of 2000 and 2004, Reichstag, Valerie Plame, 7/7/05, CLENIS ("Vast RightWing Conspiracy" to "get" President Clinton) etc..

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BuddyYoung]

32. It seems reasonable to say that your posts are intentionally misleading

Your posts are misleading and you should stop using inflammatory words like "CT" in a way that is misleading. Why do you continue to do that? You've been told about it how many times now?

[mirandapriestly]

34. who was s/he talking about anyway?

I have never read you post about a vast American conspiracy, wtf. I guess in order to have an argument some need to make things up and put words into people's mouths, because if they didn't they wouldn't have anything to say.

[rman]

36. Who's saying alternative CT's are about a "vast" conspiracy?

You are. Not us.
If the official CT involves only 20 people and some planners and financers, why would any alternative conspiracy have to be "vast"?

[petgoat]

35. "what facts are there"

Warnings from 11 countries and 3 FBI offices were ignored
Osama met with CIA man Larry Mitchell in Dubai before 9/11
Atta's moneyman, Mahmood Ahmad, breakfasting with congressional intel leaders 9/11
FAA failed to follow standard procedures.
There was no air defense for 90 minutes.
Pentagon videotapes seized, hidden away.
WTC steel destroyed before proper samples could be taken.
Mysterious sulfidation attack on WTC steel.
Firemen's reports of WTC7 structural damage are mutually contradictory
FEMA report and NIST report contradict each other
Molten metal in the basements
No core steel samples showing heating above 250 degrees C
Black boxes suppressed
Bush remained at a hazardous publicized location when the nation was under attack