Why Did Todd Beamer Talk To The Phone Operator For 13 Minutes

[orleans]

instead of calling his pregnant wife?

(just wondering)

[mirandapriestly]

1. Good question

it is another oddity which makes the phone calls "suspicious" to some. There was some excuse, I don't remember what, though.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Amazing guy

He managed to talk to the operator for over 13 minutes, tell her half his life, say the Lords Prayer and recite a Psalm and still had time left over to organize a take over of the plane. Something stinks here?

Funny thing about the phone calls from Flight 93, almost all of them were made by members of the "Let's Roll Team". One or two other people managed to get calls out but only briefly. Then of course, there's the guy in the bathroom, whose story doesn't jive with anyone else's.

[Mnemosyne]

4. "the guy in the bathroom"

Do you have any links on him DYEW? I missed hearing this somehow.

Thanks!

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Of course

"We got the call about 9:58 this morning from a male passenger stating that he was locked in the bathroom of United Flight 93 traveling from Newark to San Francisco, and they were being hijacked," said Glenn Cramer, a 911 supervisor.

"We confirmed that with him several times and we asked him to repeat what he said. He was very distraught. He said he believe the plane was going down. He did hear some sort of an explosion and saw white smoke coming from the plane, but he didn't know where.

"And then we lost contact with him."

http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010912crashnat2p2.asp



GREENSBURG, Pa. -- A Westmoreland County 911 dispatcher who received a call from one of the passengers aboard United Flight 93, which crashed in Somerset County on Sept. 11, was honored Thursday for his efforts, WTAE-TV's Marcie Cipriani reported.

The passenger, whose name is not being released, called from a cell phone. He told 911 dispatcher John Shaw, 29, of Youngwood, Pa., that he was hiding in the bathroom of the hijacked plane.

Shaw said he knew immediately that the man on the other end of the line was desperate.

"He told me he locked himself in the bathroom, he gave me the flight number and the tail number, everything he possibly could, and that the plane had been hijacked," Shaw said. "I told him to stay calm, I tried to get as much information off of him as possible in the shortest period of time."

Before Shaw could gather any more information about the hijackers, he said he heard something, but couldn't make out the noise. Then, just one minute after the call began, the line was dead.

"I got dead silence," Shaw said. "I was the last person that man talked to, without a doubt."

[Mnemosyne]

21. Thank you DYEW. I do recall this after

reading your link. I wonder if they ever released his name.

"leaving a trail of debris five miles long." I never knew a plane crash could scatter debris that far. :sarcasm:

"Agents seized the 911 dispatch tape from Westmoreland County as part of their investigation." Agents sure were busy that day with all their "seizing" of tapes so quickly everywhere.

"Peterson said he saw no bodies, but there also was no sign of life."

I doubt the 911 dispatch tapes were ever released.

MIHOP.

:hi:

[Jensen]

32. How many of us get on a plane and know the tail number?

Most passengers do not even remember the flight number....

He told me he locked himself in the bathroom, he gave me the
flight number and the tail number, everything he possibly
could, and that the plane had been hijacked," Shaw said.
"I told him to stay calm, I tried to get as much
information off of him as possible in the shortest period of
time."

This definitely smells!

[DoYouEverWonder]

34. Yes, I thought that was odd too?

But so is everything else about Flight 93.

[hack89]

3. Do you know for a fact that he didn't even try?

perhaps he couldn't reach her?

[orleans]

6. i don't know. that's why i'm asking. n/t

[mirandapriestly]

7. hack actually told me once

to stop asking questions...in case you are wondering about the mind set of the vocal minority here.

[orleans]

8. well, maybe there has been a change of heart

since he asked "Do you know for a fact that he didn't even try? perhaps he couldn't reach her?"

two questions!

(although i doubt the change of heart has occurred)

and yes, i am well aware of the vocal minority mindset here--those who, imo, believe in the biggest conspiracy of all: the "official" story (baaaa)

(i just watched "painful deceptions" --have you seen it? what did you think of it?)

[mirandapriestly]

9. It's very good.

Nothing refutable as I can recall.

[hack89]

12. We don't necessarily believe every aspect of the official story..

we just believe that CTrs such as your self do a very poor job of proving your theories. You seem to believe that if you can find enough holes in the official story, it must mean your CTs are true. I believe that if you cannot adequately defend your CT, then the official story AND your CT must both be wrong and I will look else where for an explanation.

[orleans]

18. a ct such as myself? i beg your pardon...what does that make you?

don't you believe in the government's official conspiracy theory? where are the "facts" that prove that entire line of thinking?

i was just asking a question on this thread--

read it again--i wasn't trying to "prove" anything

are you?

if you are so bothered by those of us who ask questions then why not just ignore them so they won't bother you?

(oops, sorry. that was another question)

[hack89]

19. You know as well as I do ..

that in this forum CT has a particular connotation - that is simply the way it is.

Where did I ever say that I am bothered by you asking questions? When have I ever taken these conversations so seriously that I have ever insulted anyone or questioned their integrity like what happens to me on a regular basis?

I simply think that your theories are wrong and when you put out false or flaw arguments I will question them. That's all I did in this thread - ask a single question. Your overreaction to that is puzzling.

[hack89]

10. I think you are mistaken ..

I said that all the 911 truth movement ever does is ask questions - it just never seems to take the time to answer them. Furthermore, I said that you(and some others who post here) would be better served by, when a question pops into your head, actually taking the time do research it yourself instead of posting here.

[BuddyYoung]

13. We have researched, analyzed, and taken advantage of similar work

done by other OBJECTIVE, SINCERE, hiddenagenda-free Truth Seekers, and we know the fairy tale you support is an indication that your viewpoints are not informed by anything more than propaganda and disinformation.

[hack89]

16. You have contributed nothing to the conversation ..

I can't recall a single post of yours with any real substance - all we get from you is "me too" cheer leading and insults. There may be "OBJECTIVE, SINCERE, hiddenagenda-free Truth Seekers" but you are not one of them.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Woody Box]

11. He didn't want to make her nervous

- because she was pregnant.

The question is dealt with in two books: Jere Longman, "Among the heroes", and/or Lisa Beamer, "Let's roll!"

I haven't the books here at the moment, so I can give no details, but that's basically what Lisa Jefferson (the lady on the phone) said.

So Todd Beamer, knowing that he was going to die soon in a last heroic fight, wanted to take care of his wife and their child.

You might expect that he wanted to talk to her for a last time; that he wanted to hear her voice for the last time; to say goodbye the last time, etc.

But Todd Beamer was a real hero. He was afraid his call would make Lisa so nervous that her unborn child would suffer. So he suppressed his desire to get in contact with her.

This is one of the many things why I say that the story of the "heroes of Flight 93" is a really bad movie script.

[BuddyYoung]

14. Entire 911 fairy tale is a "really bad movie script"...except for FOX. nt

nt

[we can do it]

15. That Makes Absolutely No Sense -

Not getting to say goodbye would be worse for most folks. But hey, I don't write fairy tales.....so what do I know..

[orleans]

20. i found this...

"Beamer asked her to promise to call his wife if he didn't make it home."
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/beamer.htm

but did he tell this woman why he didn't call his wife? or is everyone assuming that he didn't want to make her nervous?

then i found this:
"According to the account, Beamer attempted to call his wife in California on an airphone but instead ended up talking to Verizon supervisor Lisa Jefferson. "
http://www.911review.com/attack/flights/f93.html

[Woody Box]

22. I took a look at the books

I remembered right. Both Jere Longman and Lisa Beamer have spoken with Lisa Jefferson. Both of them report that Beamer was thinking about calling his wife, but didn't want to "upset" her.

Additionally, Lisa Beamer mentions a practical reason: Todd was clever. He knew that Lisa with her children couldn't help him on the plane, anyway, so why to ring her up?

Your last quote - that Todd tried to call Lisa - is belied by Lisa Jefferson. She states clearly that he was thinking about a call, not trying it.

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. If he knew that calling his wife couldn't help him

then that would indicate he was trying to get help?

However, he wastes over 15 minutes chatting with a stranger/operator telling her his life story, saying the Our Father and reciting a Psalm. Give me a break.

If I were in their situation, I don't think my first call would be to my spouse either. My first call would be for HELP! I would be talking as fast as I could and giving as much detail as I could to ID the plane, so that maybe, god help us, maybe the operator could get help to the plane in time. I would be doing everything I could to save our lives, while at the same time, trying not to piss off a hijacker who might want to slit my throat next.

[mirandapriestly]

23. I remember rumors about the Beamers marriage

is there anything to that? I know that his dad is connected to legato which got a pentagon contract after 9-11. Also, this flight always sounded like the people involved thought they were in a "drill". It would make sense that when he talked to LJ he would say he didn't want to make his wife nervous if it was a drill. It does not makes sense, even if a verizon employee was quoted that he did not talk to his wife if he thought he was going to die. Put yourself in that position, do you want to go out talking to some phone co. employee?

[orleans]

25. the "drill" idea hadn't occurred to me--and i don't remember

hearing anything about the marriage

all i know is that it is fucking absurd to think that someone in dire straights would prefer the voice of a stranger than someone they love--even if it means they have to say goodbye--especially when a goodbye is all they're ever going to get

no, the idea that he chose to speak to lj is absurd, unrealistic, and a total stretch of the imagination

[mirandapriestly]

26. Here's an old DU thread

about the lesser known calls by John Doe:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=48030&mesg_id=48030

and here is a tidbit about the Betty Ong call which is weird because it starts only minutes after take off and the reservations clerk, Vanessa Minter is a former Air Force, which is always interesting. Also, she calls the hijackers "the guys". I'm in a hurry and haven't read this for a long time, but here is the linky:
http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/911-ong-tape.htm

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ferry Fey]

29. Factchecking Beamers

Are you thinking of the discussion here at one point when someone said the Beamers' marriage was not listed in a NY databases of marriages? I noted that my marriage was not on the database for the state where that happened. Someone suggested that she might be able to stop in Peekskill (I think) NY where the Beamers were alleged to have married and check in the registry. But I don't know if that was ever done.

[mirandapriestly]

31. Yes, I remember the conversation

but I couldn't find anything about it when I looked.

[Ferry Fey]

33. Our 2005 discussion on Beamer details

This may be the original place where the issue of the marriage records was brought up:
http://www.kucinich.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=26505&

We discussed it in the thread "Claim on another list that Todd Beamer died in 1997." A poster named OmmmSweetOmmm says s/he lives near Peekskill and could check the records at the church, but I don't think we ever heard back.

OmmmSweetOmmm, if you are reading this could you give us an update?

That thread, BTW, is worth rereading occasionally. Along with sharing curious information about Todd Beamer and those who were said to be his friends, I discuss my own ways of approaching research.

It's useful to occasionally step back and take some time to figure out the nature of how you in particular do research in general. See if you can articulate how your methods differ from other people's ways of doing it. How you gather information, how you share it. Being able to describe and look at your methods may help you determine where you need to look further, or help you figure out if your information may help someone else.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x56223

I was curious about the Welsh middle names of Todd Morgan Beamer and Todd Evans Beamer. I checked out the largest genealogy forums to see if Todd Beamer had been discussed there. GenForum didn't mention him at all, Ancestry.com has a 2004 query as to whether Todd Beamer of Flight 93 was related to an ancestor Conrad Boehmer, who also died in Somerset County in 1801.

[Jazz2006]

28. Why do people do what they do in unexpected circumstances?

I don't know.

But I do know for a fact that many people do respond in ways that might - with 20/20 hindsight - appear "unusual" to casual observers after the fact. This is particularly so in stressful, frightening, unusual, bizarre, or simply unfamiliar circumstances, even far less stressful, frightening, unusual or bizarre as finding oneself in the midst of an airplane hijacking.

It is easy to look upon any hypothetical situation and say, "I would do X" or "I would do Y" and it is even easier to look BACK in hindsight - upon an actual situation within which someone places himself hypothetically - and say, "I would have done X" or "I would have done Y".

Most people would like to believe that they would respond perfectly and objectively appropriately to any given situation at any given time.

Most people would like to believe that they would HAVE responded perfectly and objectively appropriately to an actual situation that they themselves have never been in.

But in the real world, that is rarely how it works.

It seems that in any given group of people responding to a stressful, frightening, unusual, bizarre, and/or unexpected situation, people will respond in widely disparate ways.

That is human nature.

It is not for those who did not actually have to deal with the situation to judge those who did upon their actions and reactions by saying "I would have done X".

It is not for those who did not actually have to deal with the situation to judge those who did not respond in the way that "you" (i.e. not you the OP specifically, but "you" meaning those who cast aspersions upon the actions or responses of those who were actually confronted with the situation) by saying "I (or anyone) would have done X".

The reality is that *other people* will not always respond the way we would like to think that we, personally, would. Another reality is that not all of us would even respond the way we would like to think that we, personally, would.

The truth is that unless and until we find ourselves in the hypothetical situation that we are expounding upon, we do not really know how we will respond or react; we only know how we wish we would respond and react.

So, why did Todd Beamer talk to phone operator for 13 minutes? Who knows? By some accounts, he couldn't reach his wife and was connected to the operator instead. By another account, he didn't want to distress her. The truth might be one or the other or somewhere in the middle or something entirely different.

But the suggestion that anyone who finds themself in a particular situation should or would respond in a particular way that others who have never been in such a situation deem normal or acceptable is just off base.

An old Indian proverb about walking a mile in another's moccasins leaps to mind.

To those who say "Nobody would have talked to an operator for 13 minutes" (re: Todd Beamer); or "I would have done X" (numerous posters in this forum on various threads) or "Nobody calls his mother and uses his first and last name" (re: Mark Bingham) or "No flight attendant would say X" (re: the pathetic Loose Change video mocking the flight attendant), I say that either they have no concept of the reality that different people react differently in stressful, bizarre, frightening, unusual circumstances, or they have an agenda.


Edit - typo ~ grr.

[canetoad]

37. Interesting post

Short paragraphs, many consisting of one sentence. Staccato, authoritarian, almost biblical. Cold references to proverbs, learned but not taken in. Algabraic identifiers mingled with text. Luv yer style.

[Jazz2006]

38. Keeping it simple for the "hard to fathom" crowd....

Got a problem with that?

Edit to add: that aside, do you have nothing at all to say about the content of the post or are you simply content with conducting a drive by smear without bothering to actually respond to the substance of the post?

Is there something (anything?) in the post with which you take issue or disagree with?

Seems not...

Do you have anything at all to say about the thread topic?

Seems not...

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

One would easily be forgiven for wondering what your motives might be in posting that particular post, in the circumstances.

[Grateful for Hope]

40. Very succinctly said. n/t

[Jazz2006]

41. So, you do not dispute anything I said,

but you post a "rah rah" cheerleading type non-response.

Oh yeah, that's impressive.

Pfft.

[Grateful for Hope]

44. I am not out to dispute you

because, as far as I can see, there is nothing of substance to dispute in your posts.

[Jazz2006]

47. In that case, nice to see that you agree with me for a change.

(couldn't resist)

[mirandapriestly]

42. Ahh, I see where you're going ...

You're brilliant.

[Nitty-Gritty]

45. That's quite a post you laid down, Jazz2006 person.

NT

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[savemefromdumbya]

35. didn't happen

[Bolo Boffin]

36. Because at minute 14, he hung up and charged the cockpit with the other

passengers.

[Uppanotch]

39. How do you know? Were you there? (no need to get smarty pants now)

You made what you apparently believe is a factual claim and I'm asking what you based it on. That is all. I don't need one of your trademarked mean-spirited responses. A factual one will suffice.

[Bolo Boffin]

43. I don't need to get smarty pants.

The ones I have will do just fine.

Mean-spirited is something you are importing to my comments.

[Nitty-Gritty]

46. I'm "importing" that? Now, about the claim you made & the question I

asked.

Thanks.