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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 02:32 PM
Original message
Painful realities about the failures of the 9/11 truth movement
A number of them well-put by Emanuel Sferios in the following piece (for general distribution by whatever means):

This article is also on the web:
http://www.septembereleventh.org/five_years_later.php


9/11 FIVE YEARS LATER: WHAT HAVE WE ACCOMPLISHED?
An Assessment of the 9/11 Truth Movement

By Emanuel Sferios
September 11, 2006

Five years ago--on my birthday--the shadow government of the United States
murdered over 3,000 of its own citizens (and hundreds of others) in a
"false flag" operation designed to galvanize public support behind a war
for control of the world's last remaining energy reserves. Many of us
quickly saw through the "big lie" of 9/11 and began a movement to expose
it, to reveal the truth, in the hopes that this would bring an end to the
War on Terror, a war destined--if it continues--to turn nuclear.

And now, five years later, what have we accomplished?

In short, everything and nothing. We began this movement to convince the
American public and the world that the official story of 9/11 was a lie,
and that ruling factions within our own government were the real
perpetrators. This we accomplished. Opinion polls conducted over the last
two years show that the majority of Americans believe the US government
was complicit. We bombarded every mainstream and alternative medium
available with information, from Air America to internet blogs. We handed
out leaflets in cities and towns across the country, held signs on street
corners, wrote letters to everyone we could think of. And you know what?
It worked. Today it is rare that I talk to a person who doesn't believe
the US government was involved in the attacks in some way. Compared to
just two years ago, when people would look at us like we were crazy for
suggesting such a thing, this is an amazing success.

Or so it seems. For at the same time, not a single perpetrator of 9/11 has
been prosecuted, and the War on Terror continues unabated, as does the
endless stream of lies and propaganda designed to keep us fearful and
compliant. Why this discrepancy? What accounts for the 9/11 Truth
Movement's seeming victory in shattering the American public's blind
acceptance of the official story, and the stark reality that nothing has
changed politically? In other words, why, in the midst of total success,
have we failed?

This is the question I have been asking myself over the last few years. As
co-founder of the first national activist organization for 9/11 truth, the
9/11 Visibility Project (http://www.septembereleventh.org), I devoted two
full years of my life to building this movement. And to see it grow from a
handful of struggling yet dedicated individuals into the enormous yet
ultimately ineffective movement it is today, saddens me to no end. Thus
for me this is not merely an academic question. I mean it honestly: why,
in the midst of a seeming total success, have we failed?

The answer to this question, many have concluded, involves the lack of
political will of the people of the United States. It is one thing to know
the truth, and quite another to act upon that truth. Democracy Now is a
case in point. A great many of us have had conversations with Amy Goodman
and the other producers of Democracy Now, and they all know the official
story of 9/11 is a lie. Yet except for a few segments we forced them to
air as a result of our public pressure campaign (where they for the most
part ridiculed us), they have chosen not only to ignore 9/11 truth, but to
affirm the official story again and again in their programming.

Many other examples can be given, not only from the left media, but from
senators, congressmen, Eliot Spitzer, etc. How many of these people know
the truth, yet do nothing? (Cynthia McKinney may be the one notable
exception). Where is the political will?

But to blame the American people alone for their lack of courage in
opposing US imperialism fails to ultimately answer the question, for we
must also ask why such a lack of courage exists in the first place.
Certainly it isn't a lack of courage in general. The American population
regularly demonstrates great courage and political will when it comes to
social and domestic issues. And neither do I believe, as some cynical
observers claim, that the majority of Americans secretly support US
imperialism, that given the choice they would rather see millions of
innocent foreigners die than reduce their own oil consumption and
powerdown. If such was the case, there would have been no need for a 9/11,
and there would be no need for the ongoing lies and deceptions. Simply
citing the lack of political will among the American public thus begs the
question, for the answer we seek is exactly that which accounts for this
lack of courage when facing the truth of 9/11.

Here is my assessment. The reason for the discrepancy between what people
know about 9/11 and what they are willing to do to stop the War on Terror;
the reason we have ultimately failed, in other words, has to do with the
scope and sophistication of the political and social control mechanisms
used against us; namely, disruption and disinformaiton. I have been an
activist for 20 years, and I have seen and experienced COINTELPRO-style
disruption many times in the past. Yet never before have I witnessed it
used on such a scale and with such precision as I have within the 9/11
Truth Movement. There are thousands of examples, but let me give you just
a few.

1. When we launched our Democracy Now campaign, we asked activists and the
general public to send them emails requesting they have David Ray Griffin
on their show. We provided a sample letter, but encouraged people to write
their own, and we asked them always to be polite. We also provided them
the email addresses to send their letters, and we included our own email
address in the mix, so we could see what kinds of letters Democracy Now
was receiving. What happened was very telling. For every two or three
emails they received that were respectful and well-written, they received
one that was either highly insulting, vehemently anti-semitic, or
down-right ludicrous. The timing and repetitive use of specific phrases
among many of these emails revealed a coordinated effort to disrupt our
campaign and convince Democracy Now not to associate with us.

2. When we launched our campaign to get the attorney General of New York
State, Eliot Spitzer, to open a new investigation into 9/11, we began an
online petition drive and received thousands of signatures. Shortly after
our campaign website went up, another website was launched duplicating our
campaign and promoting preposterous claims designed to make the 9/11 Truth
Movement appear ridiculous. Thus a clear message was sent to Eliot Spitzer
that opening a new investigation into 9/11 could easily destroy his
reputation by associating with people who believe, among other nonsense,
that the planes on 9/11 were merely holograms inserted onto TV screens.

And these are just examples of reactive disruption efforts (in response to
things we do), which aren't even the primary methods they use against us.

Controlling Your Opposition by Becoming It

One lesson the shadow government has learned over the last 40 years is
that the best way to defeat your opposition is to become your opposition,
and like many of those phony socialist and anti-war groups on college
campuses that suck rebellious student energy and dissipate it
ineffectively, preventing the formation of a legitimate, effective
opposition, so have they taken over a large part of the 9/11 Truth
Movement itself, channeling new skeptics (and old) into endless debates
around physical evidence and other ineffective actions. During my entire
time within the movement, I never once named publicly any individuals or
websites I thought were intentionally promoting disinformation, or leading
us down useless avenues, nor will I now. (This is to protect myself from
reprisals, to avoid the further disruption caused by the endless cycle of
"snitch jacketing," and because you can never really prove who is an agent
and who is simply duped by the disinfo itself, much of which is easily
believable on the surface.) But to prove that agents are among us, and
that they have succeeded in taking over the bulk of the movement, one
needs to go no further than compare the number of people who believe no
plane hit the Pentagon with the number of people who know about the
simultaneous wargames that were taking place on the morning of 9/11, and
that prevented NORAD from intercepting the planes before they hit their
targets.

The former claim, widely believed, is perhaps the most successful and
sophisticated disinformation campaign injected into the 9/11 Truth
Movement. Supported by doctored video footage released by the Pentagon
itself, it has almost single-handedly made the movement the laughing stock
of Washington DC residents, hundreds of whom saw the plane hit the
building, and thousands of whom have relatives or friends who did. And
this was likely its intention, for it has successfully alienated from the
movement precisely those DC professionals (senators, congressmen, federal
judges, prosecutors, etc.) who hold enough power to effectively
investigate and prosecute the crime. It has also been the primary wedge
used to divide the movement from itself. While there is no space here to
delve into the details of the "no plane at the Pentagon" hoax, I am
forever indebted to Mark Robinowitz for having the stubborn persistency to
keep challenging me back when I, too, believed the hoax. I am also
immensely grateful to Jim Hoffman for his unparalleled analysis of the
Pentagon physical evidence (http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon).

On the other hand, the wargames comprise the very heart of the operation.
On the morning of 9/11 itself, the FAA and NORAD were occupied in air
defense drills simulating none other than multiple airline hijackings.
These drills included fake blips inserted onto their radar screens, as
well as remotely controlled aircraft in the air posing as passenger jets.
Thus the perpetrators of 9/11 (those overseeing the wargames) were able to
incapacitate the US air defense system without having to order a
stand-down, allowing the operation to succeed. Because of the wargames,
NORAD personnel did not know where to send the fighter jets when the
supposedly "real" hijackings took place (likely also being flown by remote
control). They acknowledged this during the 9/11 Commission hearings, with
no follow-up questioning of course.

How many people have heard of the wargames compared to the "no plane at
the Pentagon" theory? How many 9/11 Truth websites make reference to the
wargames compared with the Pentagon hoax? And how many 9/11 truth activist
organizations do you know emphasizing the wargames as opposed to all the
various physical evidence arguments? The answer to these questions will
tell you a lot about the state of the movement, and who really controls
it. (Incidentally, the world should be forever indebted to Mike Ruppert,
who put the pieces together about the wargames and presented them in their
proper light, first on stage to a small audience in Toronto, which
included myself, and then in full detail in his book, Crossing the
Rubicon.)

So we shouldn't place all the blame upon those individuals who willfully
ignore the truth of 9/11. Certainly there is an element of cowardice
involved, a lack of integrity, and a selling out. We know, for example,
that Democracy Now received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Ford
Foundation specifically to report on 9/11. But what would happen to
Democracy Now if Amy Goodman chose integrity over money? The same thing,
perhaps, that happened to Mike Ruppert?
(http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/081606_burning_bridge.shtml)
This is not to excuse Goodman's willful ignorance, her selling out to the
very government she professes to oppose. (I don't listen to her show
anymore, but I read From The Wilderness every day.) I simply want to
recognize the immense power of that government, a power that can murder
3,000 people and get away with it, a power that can induce good activists
to sell out, and better ones to flee the country. (Living to fight another
day is not so condemnable, after all.) Herein lies an important factor in
our failure.

More About Disinformation

One of the characteristics of 9/11 disinformation a lot of people have a
hard time grasping is that much of it is designed specifically to convince
people of US government complicity in 9/11. This might seem like a
contradiction, until one understands that 9/11 disinfo is part of a
broader system of mass manipulation where the opposing perspective plays
an essential role. The basic idea is to control both sides of the debate,
and frame it in a way that makes the opposing side ineffective (not
necessarily unbelievable). In the end it doesn't matter whether even a
majority of the people believe the US government was complicit in 9/11
(this is already the case). What matters is only that the perpetrators can
never successfully be prosecuted. Thus they pollute the body of evidence
with red herrings and false lines of inquiry. If, in the process, they
happen to cause some people to disbelieve the official story (as in the
case with the "no plane at the Pentagon" hoax), all the better, because
the end result is a weakening of any legal case that might be brought
against them.

There is an important quote by E. Martin Schotz from his book, History
Will Not Absolve Us: Orwellian Control, Public Denial, and the Murder of
President Kennedy. It is: "One of the primary means of immobilizing the
American people politically today is to hold them in a state of confusion
in which anything can be believed and nothing can be known." Conspiracy
theories, in other words, provide the perfect cover for real conspiracies.
When anything can be believed because the available information is a
convoluted mix of truth, falsehood and probability; when the actual truth
itself is convoluted, involving deception, mystery and illusion; then one
is ultimately left to their own emotions to decide. And emotions, of
course, can be easily manipulated. What do you *want* to believe? After
all, it's up to you. You'll never know the truth, or at least you'll never
be able to prove it in a court of law. Do you really want to be
marginalized and ridiculed as a conspiracy theorist? You get the idea.

The World Trade Center Collapse: A Necessary Illusion

In my two years of 9/11 truth activism, I never emphasized the physical
evidence. I always knew it was a dead end that would suck the movement's
energy and accomplish nothing. But let me be straight up for a moment, if
a bit speculative, because thinking about these things is helpful. They
demolished the World Trade Center towers with explosives. I have no doubt
about this, just as I have no doubt that the planes were flown by remote
control. I also believe that hijackers did, in fact, board the planes
(despite the articles claiming some of those named are still alive). I
think the hijackers were trained US operatives (patsies), and that they
likely did not know they were going to die. I also think the most probable
explanation for the shoot-down of flight 93 is that the passengers did, in
fact, storm the cockpit, only to discover that the plane was being flown
by remote control. And so in order to prevent any of them from calling
their loved ones and blabbing (yes, phones can work on planes), they had
to shoot it down. Or perhaps the hijackers themselves learned their real
fate and allowed the passengers into the cockpit to try to regain control
of the aircraft. We'll never really know, and this is the idea. "Anything
can be believed," and so it is equally plausible, as others have
speculated, that the shoot-down of Flight 93 was planned from the
beginning.

But the World Trade Center demolition is obvious, which leads to an
important question: why did they do it? Wouldn't simply crashing the
planes into the buildings have been enough? Why bring them down
completely? The typical responses here apply: They needed their "New Pearl
Harbor," a mass casualty event to shock the public into supporting a
retaliatory war. They also needed a spectacle that wouldn't be easily
forgotten. These explanations are true enough. Another often cited and
plausible one is that they needed to make the lie obvious enough that the
people who mattered (government, corporate, and military leaders, for
example) would know that they--the secret government within the
government--did this and got away with it. This sends a powerful message
of invincibility to anyone who might be thinking of opposing them. And the
fact that they demolished building 7 later that evening in a classic-style
demolition sure seems to support that argument. It's as if they were
saying, "just in case you didn't get it the first time, we'll show you one
even more obvious."

But there is another reason they demolished the World Trade Center towers,
in my opinion the most important reason, which is that they needed the lie
to be incredible. As Hitler and Goebbels understood, the bigger and more
incredible the lie, the more people will believe it, because they will
have to make a bigger psychological leap in order to disbelieve it. Mass
manipulation of this kind plays on the natural desire many people have to
conform, and it is much more difficult, psychologically, for the
conforming individual to disbelieve a popularly-held incredible lie than a
mundane one, for to do so would set one widely apart from the herd. To put
this another way, imagine if they had merely crashed four planes into the
ocean. How much easier it would be then for people to speculate that the
government may have done this as a pretext for war. To do so would not
require a really incredible contradiction of the official story,
marginalizing oneself from the mainstream. It would not be so easy to
dismiss such claims as "outrageous conspiracy theory," and ridicule would
be less effective. What is important to remember here is that propaganda
of this sort is not designed to fool critical thinkers, but to provide
conforming individuals with a reason not to start thinking critically.
Thus the total destruction of the World Trade Center in such a dramatic
yet obvious way was, in my opinion, an essential, psychological component
of the operation.

Note: I have assumed that the reader of this article has some familiarity
with the 9/11 Truth movement, and at least a rudimentary understanding of
the physics involved in the World Trade Center Collapse. If not, there is
an excellent, brand new DVD available: an in-depth analysis of the WTC
Collapse from scientists Steven Jones and Kevin Ryan. Steven Jones is a
professor of physics at BYU, who has risked his reputation to challenge
the government's official "pancake" theory of the collapse. A sincere and
courageous academic who dared to come forward with the truth, he has
subsequently been approached by less honest persons who many believe are
trying to tarnish his reputation, in part by association with repugnant,
anti-semitic viewpoints. And Kevin Ryan is a former lab manager at
Underwriters Labs, the company that tested and certified the steel used in
the World Trade Center. He was fired when he went public with information
about the cover-up in a whistle-blowing letter we first published in
November of 2004. In this DVD he explains in detail why the National
Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) report on the World Trade
Center collapse is a lie. This is a professionally produced DVD with
high-quality illustrations and graphics. Even if you are not new to the
physics of the World Trade Center Collapse, it's worth watching. We are
offering this DVD for a small donation here:
http://www.septembereleventh.org/donations.php

Conclusion

In the Spring of this year, I gave a presentation on 9/11 truth to the
Howard Dean supporters during a Democracy For America conference in
Portland, Oregon. (Here is an mp3 of my talk if you want to listen to it:
http://septembereleventh.org/documents/deaniac.mp3) I felt bad afterwards
because there were a lot of new and enthusiastic 9/11 truth activists in
the audience, folks who had only recently broke free from the matrix, so
to speak, and I basically told them that I felt the movement was over,
that we had failed, and that the window of opportunity for obtaining
justice for 9/11 was closed for good. While I still believe this, after my
talk I realized I didn't leave any of these new activists with much hope.
I want to try and do that now. Yet I don't want to reaffirm a false hope
that the perpetrators of 9/11 will ever be prosecuted. Rather, I want to
try to help people transcend and integrate the truth of 9/11 into a
broader awareness of the state of the world today, a world where there is
much to be hopeful about.

The world today stands on the brink of a confluence three major, global
crises: peak oil, global warming and the imminent collapse of the global
banking system. All of these are inter-related, and have greed as their
ultimate cause. Greed is the common human trait of wanting more than one
really needs to be healthy and happy. It exists in all of us, to varying
degrees. Gluttony, for example, the desire for more food or drink than one
really needs, is a form of greed. So is lust. Envy, the desire to have
what others have, is another form of greed. Greed, to put it another way,
is the psyche's unquenchable thirst for ever-increasing amounts of
material energy. It is the false identification of the Self with the
material world, and while I don't want to get overly religious or
spiritual here, it is important to understand this, because it allows us
to empathize with those whom we may perceive as our enemies, those whom we
believe are somehow different from us (yet there really is no "other"). It
is only with compassion that we can begin to see the true nature of 9/11,
the truth behind the truth, so to speak.

9/11 was a pretext to launch the War on Terror, a war to control the
world's remaining energy reserves in order to maintain the
over-consumptive lifestyle that Dick Cheney insists is "not negotiable."
And the War on Terror was conceived in response to peak oil, which
threatens to end the current system of corporate greed, over-consumption
and exploitation. That system requires ever-increasing amounts of material
energy to continue, and peak oil is nothing less than the end of that
increase. The War on Terror is, therefore, a war on "terra" to maintain
the illusion of perpetual growth, the myth that over-consumption can go on
forever. It is an extreme manifestation of the ego's desperate attempt to
live forever, and it is doomed to fail. The earth is finite, and we cannot
continue to to deplete its energy forever.

This can be seen as a crisis, which certainly it is, but it is only so in
the sense that it demands a transformation of our political and economic
systems, our consumption-based lifestyles, and our self-identities. As
such it is also an opportunity, an opportunity to transcend our own greed,
to face the truth of who we really are (interconnected with everyone else,
and with the earth), and to make the necessary and inevitable sacrifices
required of us. (Remember that sacrifice is not the giving up of the
things we need. It is the giving up of the things we don't need, including
our illusions.)

The neocons are so far unable to make this necessary transformation. They
are trapped in the very system they have created, but there are those all
across the planet who are trying, starting small and making some of the
necessary sacrifices. People are struggling everywhere to create
cooperative institutions of mutual aid and solidarity, to resist the
forces of ignorance and greed. One needs look no further then the
Bolivarian Revolution sweeping across Central and South America to
understand this. And there are many people here in the US, as well,
exerting the same efforts, implementing a powerdown strategy and working
towards the re-localization of social and political institutions.

The question lies in whether the forces of light (reason, compassion,
truth) will overcome the forces of darkness (greed, fear, ignorance),
whether the spirit of the Bolivarian Revolution will sweep over the world,
or whether the neocons and their counterparts in other countries will
sweep the world away. This is up to us to decide, both collectively and
individually, and we are constantly making that decision every moment, in
every action we undertake. In that light, let us always remember that we
can't really fight fire with fire. We fight fire with water, and to the
degree that we have failed thus far to end the War on Terror, is to the
degree that we have based our own actions--our own activism--on anger or
fear. I am no exception, and yet like many, I aspire.


Thank you for reading this.

And remember
the real path
Towards Peace and Truth
begins within.

Emanuel Sferios
Co-founder and webmaster, SeptemberEleventh.org
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democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. Powerful and important
...maybe the best thing I've read on 9/11 in a long time.

Thanks for posting this in its entirety!

Rick
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FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't get it
Claiming there are disinfo agents and then saying there is no hope.


democracy now = pentagon funding
http://www.questionsquestions.net/feldman/feldman01.html

peak oil = fraud, global warming = is not what it seems, collapse of the banking system = true (dollar)
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Don't agree with all...
Disinfo/misinfo exists in spades, who's an agent is unclear and no point in bothering to speculate. He doesn't, he just calls out the facts.

Democracy Now is a gatekeeper yes, but his point is the same either way.

Peak oil (and peak of all limited commodities) is an inevitable fact of physics. The only question is how close - the peak oil movement is wrong about the immediate timing, I believe.

Global warming I've barely studied.

Banking system, agreed.

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FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. peak oil is fraud and you can read about it in greg palasts book
http://www.gregpalast.com/madhouse/index.php/32

He obtained the documents from the oil companies. Others also have internal memos
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. So I follow this link...
In the third paragraph, there is already a stunning and absurd misrepresentation of peak oil argumentation - I don't know if it's an accurate rendering of what Hubbert said in 1956, but certainly it's nothing I've heard from anyone arguing for peak oil since I first became aware of their views in 2002 (and please note I am not an activist in this particular issue):

QUOTE:

"So get in your Hummer and take your last drive, Clive. Sometime during 2006, we will have used up every last drop of crude oil on the planet. We’re not talking “decline” in oil from a production “peak,” we’re talking “culmination,” completely gone, kaput, dead out of crude-and not enough natural gas left to roast a weenie. In his 1956 treatise, Hubbert wrote that Planet Earth could produce not a drop more than one and a quarter trillion barrels of crude."

Palast then allows that there is a different view today, but proceeds to engage in the strawman argument that the oil companies lie all the time, so they must be lying now.

Peak oil people define p.o. as the point at which the maximum possible rate of extraction is reached worldwide, i.e. when the ability to bring supply online maximizes. At this point, the maximum that can be extracted begins to decline, and demand over each given period begins to exceed the maximum amount of supply that can be created in that given period, assuming demand does not drop. In other words, at peak oil it starts getting harder and harder to get oil, "the last drop" is never actually reached but over a period of decades we move to the practical depletion point of it taking more energy to extract the remaining oil (at that point trapped in sand and stone). In other words, p.o. theory holds that we are approaching (or have passed) the peak of the production curve, NOT the "last drop" (typically projected to come in 30 to 100 years). However, when demand exceeds supply, we are already screwed unless we can find ways to reduce demand and replace oil peacefully (the neocons clearly have already decided they prefer resource wars).

Oil fields produce along a bell curve, rising in output from initial tapping and continuing to rise as the infrastructure is developed. At some point it starts getting harder to pump out the supply - that's the peak. Depletion arrives much later, but after a period of decline. If this is true of an oil field, it is true of the sum total of oil fields (unless you want to argue not only that oil is abiotic and rising up from the mantle, but that it is doing so at a rate that can actually replete fields fast enough to cover the growing planetary rate of consumption).

It's true that oil companies, Bush and Cheney will lie to make a profit, but that doesn't mean peak oil is a fraud. The question Palast is entirely begging is how much total extractable supply exists. At some point, the oil companies' desire to always display a shortage may happen to coincide with a reality that production has reached its physically possible maximum. Palast doesn't bother with examining that and therefore proves nothing either way.
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FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. The problem is that new sources are not exploited
Edited on Tue Sep-12-06 06:41 PM by FoxOnTheRun
I think he has obtained high level documents from shell, and published in his book, BBC wouldn't touch it.

The problem with oil or gas supply is that refinery capacity is low and there are not enough tankers.
As far as I know there was a plan to buy all private refineries in the US and shut many of them down.


Remember the Alaska pipeline? It broke down while the oil companies record high profits.

Here you can read internal memos of texaco, mobil and chevron

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/energy/fs/

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KJF Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. Not bad, an interesting read
Thanks for posting it, but I didn't really agree with the claim that nobody will be prosecuted and that this constitutes failure.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. What bothers me the most about some of these groups
is their need to discredit, other theories has being too ridiculous to even consider. Yet their own theories all require a certain amount of tinfoil.

Instead of wasting time discrediting other 9-11 theorists, they need to focus on the event and presenting their evidence.

The blogsphere is filled with disrupters and misinformation agents. That's just the way it is. They are everywhere not just on 9-11 forums. Learn to use them. I can generally make them disappear with a few posts.

BTW: Has anyone else noticed that the usual crew that inhabits DU has been awfully quiet lately?


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FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. It's pretty boring to argue if you have no facts
The ones who are left are those, who have some physics background and are looking at the papers by steven jones, or others who refute his claims.

I wouldn't say it's always disinfo. "It's the bigger the lie, the more you have to give up of your current beliefs to accept the truth".

It's like explaining to a hardcore evangelical that G. Bush isn't a real christian and he isn't Jesus.
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Nozebro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. No different than corporate media. Most of what's in it is from PR firms.

Disruptors and Disinformation Agents are indeeed everywhere. They're from the same DNA as the people that put all those "medical news" articles in the media that make a subtle sales pitch for the lates (legal) drug they want you to buy and become habituated to. The same people that try to scare the public into supporting more tax breaks for the rich and corporate welfare that results from False Flag terrorist acts.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
9. An interesting read. Some of it I agree with and some I don't.
As a practical matter, if I were him, I'd make my points without the pitch for a small donation inserted in his thesis. Not because I'm opposed to fund raising, but because it dilutes both his fund raising and his thesis.

Having lived through the Kennedy assassination conspiracy, the Iran Contra conspiracy, the election stealing conspiracy and now the 9/11 conspiracy, (among other less salient conspiracies)I have realized that the perpetrators usually go unpunished. That the wealthy and the poor have two systems of justice in this country is no longer news to me and hasn't been for a long time.

As Bobby Dylan writes in his song "Sweetheart Like You"

They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings
Steal a little bit of money they put you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king,
There's only one step down from this place babe, it's called the land of permanent bliss
What's a sweetheart like you, doing in a dump like this?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
10. Some more thoughts.
The authors best point is about the "big lie." This is important for everybody to think about and internalize.

His second most important point is to acknowledge that there is a campaign to manage public perceptions about 9/11 and to play both those who realize 9/11 was an inside job off against those who don't. This includes dis-info, disruption, etc.

His worst point is to wallow in his disillusionments.

His second worst point is to try to establish an orthodoxy as to what is exceptable to believe about events of 9/11 and what isn't. He would do much better to state his perception of events and why he believes them and leave it at that.
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graphixtech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. beautiful work
The author of this excellent article, friend Emanuel Sferios
of the 9-11 Visibilty Project in 2004.




(shown on far left)
(both photos by jan hoyer)
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. The "fake blips" story has always confused me..
It would appear to me that there were three separate systems in play on 911:

1. NORAD command and control systems.

2. FAA air traffic control radars

3. Air Force air defense radars.

None of these are interconnected.

I can understand fake blips the NORAD system - it happens all the time in exercises.

It would never happen in the FAA ATC systems - there would be no need in a military exercise and it would be too dangerous for safety of flight.

The Vanity Fair article says that the air defense radars were old, analog systems so I don't understand how you would inject fake blips into such a system.

So how was it done?

There certainly seems to be no detail behind these vague claims of injects - what is the basis of these claims? Are there actual eyewitnesses?
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FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. from vanity

"When they told me there was a hijack, my first reaction was 'Somebody started the exercise early,'" Nasypany later told me. The day's exercise was designed to run a range of scenarios, including a "traditional" simulated hijack in which politically motivated perpetrators commandeer an aircraft, land on a Cuba-like island, and seek asylum. "I actually said out loud, 'The hijack's not supposed to be for another hour,'" Nasypany recalled. (The fact that there was an exercise planned for the same day as the attack factors into several conspiracy theories, though the 9/11 commission dismisses this as coincidence. After plodding through dozens of hours of recordings, so do I.)





09:04:50—Is this explosion part of that that we're lookin' at now on TV?
—Yes.
—Jesus …
—And there's a possible second hijack also—a United Airlines …
—Two planes?…
—Get the fuck out …
—I think this is a damn input to be honest.Text


Oh c'mon the vanity spins it and is a limited hangout (there is 6:30 of realtime conversation, the FAA tapes were shredded and destroyed)
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. But your post does not answer my question
and secondly, the phrase input can mean more than a video inject. Many of exercise inputs are scripted messages or phone calls designed to generate a response.

Where do you think the fake blips were injected? Just the air defense radars? What would that have to do with the confusion at the FAA?

You did clarify things very much.
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FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I didn't dive into that question very much

Everybody can clearly see that the media is trying to spin it to it's just incompetence, old equipment and confusion.


Sorry, I couldn't answer your question.


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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. That's ok
my point simply was that the when you start digging there doesn't appear to be much behind the fake blips. A lot of conjecture but no facts or witnesses.
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FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. the 911 comission ignored the war games
And here you can see how Rumsfeld doged the war games when asked by Cynthia.
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gbwarming Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. "But let me be straight up for a moment, if a bit speculative..."
Edited on Mon Sep-11-06 07:49 PM by gbwarming
Good Grief! Emanuel Sferios rails against disinfo agents espousing preposterous notions such as the no-planers and then in the next paragraph recites his own personal catechism which I doubt any two truthseekers will agree on. How is his venison any different than the 'disinfo' theories he derides? Are there two DUers that agree with every one of his statements in the following paragraph?

...They demolished the World Trade Center towers with explosives. I have no doubt
about this, just as I have no doubt that the planes were flown by remote
control. I also believe that hijackers did, in fact, board the planes
(despite the articles claiming some of those named are still alive). I
think the hijackers were trained US operatives (patsies), and that they
likely did not know they were going to die. I also think the most probable
explanation for the shoot-down of flight 93 is that the passengers did, in
fact, storm the cockpit, only to discover that the plane was being flown
by remote control. And so in order to prevent any of them from calling
their loved ones and blabbing (yes, phones can work on planes), they had
to shoot it down. Or perhaps the hijackers themselves learned their real
fate and allowed the passengers into the cockpit to try to regain control
of the aircraft. We'll never really know, and this is the idea. "Anything
can be believed," and so it is equally plausible, as others have
speculated, that the shoot-down of Flight 93 was planned from the
beginning.

edit spelling
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FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. the only thing I would object to is if the hijackers boarded the plane or
not.

explosives were probably incendiaries.
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graphixtech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. T-shirt, an ant
Just a note on Eman's t-shirt comment, before the last minutes
of this (very memorable) date fade. As I recall, Eman commented
that the ant was a very notable creature.


High Hopes Lyrics
Writer(s): Cahn/Van Heusen
http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/High-Hopes-lyrics-Frank-Sinatra/0DCA45994971836D4825691F0008B8DB


Next time you're found, with your chin on the ground
There a lot to be learned, so look around

Just what makes that little old ant
Think he'll move that rubber tree plant
Anyone knows an ant, can't
Move a rubber tree plant

But he's got high hopes, he's got high hopes
He's got high apple pie, in the sky hopes

So any time you're gettin' low
'stead of lettin' go
Just remember that ant
Oops there goes another rubber tree plant

When troubles call, and your back's to the wall
There a lot to be learned, that wall could fall

Once there was a silly old ram
Thought he'd punch a hole in a dam
No one could make that ram, scram
He kept buttin' that dam

'Cause he had high hopes, he had high hopes
He had high apple pie, in the sky hopes

So any time you're feelin' bad
'stead of feelin' sad
Just remember that ram
Oops there goes a billion kilowatt dam

All problems just a toy balloon
They'll be bursted soon
They're just bound to go pop
Oops there goes another problem kerplop

Oops, there goes another problem kerplop
Oops, there goes another problem kerplop
Kerplop!

(end)
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's good, but Ruppert's shit is full of disinfo, too,
Peak Oil: Yes, oil will run out soon enough. But not anytime soon. Current known reserves that can profitably be extracted at current prices are enough to last for wel over 25 years at current levels of consumption. But we can't increase our consumption as we've been doing.

Global Warming: Yes, it's happening. But we don't know if Gaia (Mother Earth) has any unknown mechanisms to keep it under control. We are but a nasty parasite on the surface of Gaia, and the living Earth will survive just fine, with or without our relative comfort.

Global Banking Collapse: Yes, it can't keep going on for ever like this, but if the collapse is imminent or not is anybody's guess.

Finally, there is always hope. We have progressed so far that even the poison disinfo pills will have a hard time stopping us and to some degree are backfiring on those who planted them.

9/11 Press For Truth is the best 9/11 film so far by far, and it just came out.
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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. "[W]e can't increase our consumption"
Aye, that's the rub. Once we are on the downside of Peak Oil we will, for the first time in our history, face the prospect of rising energy needs and falling energy resources. In the oil crisis of the late 70s, a relatively minor fluctuation (5% reduction) in supplies triggered major economic reaction. The fear from Peak Oil comes not from dwindling oil supplies but in the economic reaction. If our economy is inextricably linked to energy (as it is), then a decrease in energy will result in a downturn in our economic output.

What move is this country making toward conservation? What are we doing to "freeze" our consumption levels? The one-word answer: Nothing. Our economy demands that consumption go up every year to fuel growth. No one wants a flat or declining economy.

The oil companies do not want to sink billions of dollars into a refinery if they are aware that they will not get their money back out of the investment. They are looking 10-20 years out for a return on their investment; if oil supplies are truly dwindling, it makes no sense to build an expensive refinery just to see it go idle before its pay-back period.
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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. If you're interested...
there are beaucoup discussions in the Environment & Energy forum here at DU on these topics. While these discussions aren't quite as contentious as the ones here they do get pretty heated, but reading them is (at least IMO) still worthwhile.

As to your post, I agree - nobody makes money from conservation, so there is no free market pressure to increase efficiency and reduce consumption, other than the personal whims of the end-users. We have to recognize that solutions will only come with some sort of united effort by us, whether that is through the government or not.
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. why wont the BFEE (NIST) turn over the 7,000 photo's and hundreds
of hours of videotapes as well as documents and the WTC blueprints for public inspection? Pray tell, would there be a smoking gun within them. I don't know for the Crime Family is keeping them secret. WHY?

fortunately not all videotapes were classified secret, here's one of my favorites,
http://www.terrorize.dk/911/wtc2dem3/911.wtc.2.demolition.east.5.enl.slow.2.wmv


notice the explosive flashes along the east face and down the north edge just below the impact zone. then there is this, notice the explosive flash 12-15 floors above the impact zone









more at this site: http://www.terrorize.dk/911/wtc2dem3/
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-08-06 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
25. Interesting how
Emanuel blames the public and intentionally distributed disinfo rather than acknowledging incompetence and ignorance within the so called 9/11 Truth Movement.
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-08-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. You're allowed to lie if it gets people "to talk about what really happened on 9/11"
So I hear.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-08-06 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. There's a difference between a lie and a kid with limited time and
resources doing less than stellar research.

He's only 22, he's from a small town, he has limited experience
in the world, and I'm not sure how much college he had.

People I know just made the strategic decision not to spend energy
fighting what they couldn't stop anyway.

LC3 should have most of the bullshit cut out of it.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-08-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. LC3: all improved new bullshit!
Edited on Fri Dec-08-06 09:24 PM by boloboffin
So far it looks like they're going to exploit William Rodriguez mercilessly, and then propose that Flight 77 came north of the Citgo and flew over the Pentagon as whatever hit the light posts flew into the Pentagon.

However, as we have all agreed here, there's no plane in the DoubleTree video. Any 767 flying over the Pentagon would have been seen there. The frame rate was quite sufficent for that. No plane in the DoubleTree video? No Flight 77 flyover.

Edit: grammar.
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canetoad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-08-06 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I'm so glad you have returned from your self imposed exile
bolo. I really missed your focussed, relevant posts. It's so good to see a reasoned, sane person posting on behalf of all voices here.

Things getting a little stale over at SS&P? Damn good to have you back man.

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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. "He's only 22, he's from a small town, he has limited experience..."
Let me give him a medal for being a "total lying non-empirical dumbfuck, but who tried hard anyway."
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Or
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MervinFerd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-08-06 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
30. "The Secret Government within the Government"----Coincidence?
The necessary hypothesis that makes it all (sort of) plausible.

The same Secret Government of the Far Right/Black Helicopter/White Power/Christian Identity/Timothy McVeigh/UN Troops/New World Order/Michigan Militia/Anti-semitic/Neo-Nazi Conspiracy theorists we all grew to love a few years back.

Coincidence? Hmmmmmmm.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-08-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I think he's talking about the Iran-Contra secret government. Ever hear about that?
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