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paulthompson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:37 PM
Original message
Did anyone notice these articles?
I just stumbled across a series of articles the Sarasota Herald-Tribune did for the 9/11 fifth anniversary.

One interesting thing is that Amanda Keller says she never knew Mohamed Atta:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060910/NEWS/609100466/1007/BUSINESS

Also, interestingly, Atta and Alshehhi are depicted as drinking beers in bars on a nightly basis, yet Atta is still repulsed by Western women:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060910/NEWS/609101202/1007/BUSINESS

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060910/NEWS/609100338/1007/BUSINESS

That's what I call going out of your way to blend into the sinful Western culture! (sarcasm alert)
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Here's another follow up the St. Pete Times did
that I just found the other day. Some interesting 'new' info here too.


Of fact, fiction: Bush on 9/11

Jul 4, 2004


<snip>

Sarasota County Sheriff Bill Balkwill, who was in the main office, said a Marine carrying Bush's phone immediately turned to him and asked, "Can you get everybody ready? We're out of here."

But no one left.

Instead, the tape shows, Bush remains seated for at least five more minutes, although his expression by turns is somber, pensive, distracted and angry. Then he loosens up a bit and even appears to linger in the classroom.

One of the many unanswered questions about that day is why the Secret Service did not immediately hustle Bush to a secure location, as it apparently did with Vice President Dick Cheney.

A staff report of the 9/11 commission concludes that agents physically removed Cheney from the White House at 9:36 a.m. and led him into an underground shelter about 10 a.m. But the report acknowledges "conflicting evidence" on the exact time, and White House photographer David Bohrer told ABC that Cheney was evacuated just after 9 a.m. -- right after the second plane hit.

That would jibe with the account of Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta, whose testimony to the commission indicates Cheney already was in the bunker when Mineta arrived about 9:20 a.m.

Mineta's account also suggests it was Cheney who was most involved in an early and dramatic decision: to shoot down any errant planes.

In his testimony, Mineta said that about 9:25 a.m. he heard an unidentified man in the bunker reporting on the progress of a plane heading toward the Pentagon.

When the plane was 10 miles out, the man "said to the vice president, 'Does the order still stand?' " Mineta testified. "And the vice president whipped his neck around and said, 'Of course the order still stands.' "

Nevertheless, American Flight 77 continued on and hit the Pentagon.

The president, meanwhile, had left the classroom about 9:15 a.m. but remained in the school for 20 minutes, engaging in spotty conversations with Cheney.

<snip>

At 9:45 a.m., Transportation Secretary Mineta had ordered all civil aircraft to land, the first shutdown of civil aviation in U.S. history.


http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/access/658611621.html?dids=658611621:658611621&FMT=FT&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Jul+4%2C+2004&author=SUSAN+TAYLOR+MARTIN&pub=St.+Petersburg+Times&edition=&startpage=1.A&desc=Of+fact%2C+fiction%3A+Bush+on+9%2F11


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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. and "the government" says she is right!
bwahaha.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. So is Keller telling the truth now?
Either way, Hopsicker has a hole in the side of his hull as big as it gets.

Keller is a major cornerstone upon which he builds his case.

You just can't have your key player flipping 180 degrees and expect the rest of your story to carry the same weight.

Personally, I don't give a f*ck what Agent Doug has to say.

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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Actually, Hopsicker deals very directly with the changed story by
Edited on Thu Oct-05-06 12:29 PM by John Q. Citizen
Keller.

Hopsicker found out about the Atta/Keller connection because of the stories written by Sarasota Herold Tribune reporter:

WELCOME TO TERRORLAND -- MOHAMED ATTA & THE 9-11 COVER-UP IN FLORIDA


CHAPTER SIX: LOOKING FOR AMANDA

Our first stop in the search for Amanda was at the Sarasota Herald-Tribune's local Venice bureau, where reporter Earle Kimel helped break the story of Atta's American squeeze

http://www.american-buddha.com/911.welcometoterrorlandhop4.htm


Hopsicker first interviewed Keller after she had already changed her story to living with some other vague 5th hijacker also named Mohammed, not before. So she didn't flip flop on Hopsicker. And he videoed her after she had said what the FBI said.

In fact, Hopsucker wanted to interview Heller because she had changed her story. He interviewed her after finding this piece published in the Sarasota Herald-Tribune

The headline offered a clue to the contortions somebody was going through to offer this news to the world. The paper, as we've seen, was counting the ever-increasing number of terrorists said to have passed through Venice in its headlines ...

They were up to five: 'FIFTH PILOT TRAINEE VANISHES.' "Mohammed" slept on her couch, a Venice woman says."

"Investigators have identified a fifth man of Middle Eastern descent who trained to fly in Venice, but they don't know if he was involved in the September 11 attacks because they can't find him. He told the people he lived with in Venice earlier this year that he was moving to Paris," the paper reported.

"The man, known as Mohammed, stayed at Amanda Keller's unit in the Sandpiper Apartment complex on Airport Avenue in April. Authorities would not release the man's full name, and Keller would not divulge it, citing instructions from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement."



Later Hopsicker has this to say about the "other" Mohammed.


We knew one thing. We still wanted to find Amanda Keller.

Because the 'Fifth Pilot' was the 'Unknown Terrorist.' His entire existence, for the record, consisted of his stay with Amanda. There were no follow-up stories about him.

No "Fifth Pilot Identified" headlines.

Even his name remained a mystery. He was Mohamed No Last Name. He went totally unmentioned in later in-depth news accounts about the Hamburg cadre's key members.

He was The Man Who Was Not There.

After serving the purpose of disabusing the public of the notion that Mohamed Atta had lived with Amanda Keller in March and April of 2001, he retired from earthly existence, was immediately forgotten, and has never been mentioned again by the press or by authorities.

Except for Amanda Keller saying so in her retraction, there was absolutely no evidence that he had ever existed at all. And yet this transparent ruse was somehow strangely successful in keeping the press from going after the story.


http://www.american-buddha.com/911.welcometoterrorlandhop4.htm

Also, Hopsicker has half a dozen other corroborating witnesses, such as Keller and Atta's neighbors, friends, family and co-workers who saw them together, and the fact both Atta and Keller happened to both live at the same apartment house in Venice, FL.

We know what Keller told Hopsicker because you can download the clip and watch it. Is she telling Hopsicker the truth? I think so, as much as anyone anytime can tell the truth.

Also, just because Hopsicker was curious enough to seek out and interview Keller shouldn't invalidate his main thesis that the flight schools the hijackers attended in Venice were connected to drugs, US Intel, and the mob. This remains the thesis whether Keller is telling the truth or not.

You can also see Hopsicker's interview with the Yellow Cab Driver who places Atta and Flight School front owner operator Rudy Drukker together in Venice when the FBI says Atta was long gone. That's a great interview. One can decide that Hopsicker is clever at presenting complete rubbish and the whole entire book is made up, or one can decide that he's pretty well demonstrated his thesis, that their was a much greater connection between those flight schools and the hijackers than is commonly believed.

I tend toward the second conclusion. And it's not dependent on the truthfulness of Keller. It's based on the weight of a lot of documentation. I think Keller is basically truthful on the tape, as I think she was basically truthful in her initial assertions.

One thing is certain, there are two diametrically conflicting stories out there originating from the same source. We have the first story (Sarasota Herald-Tribune's local Venice bureau, Earle Kimel) and the third story (Hopsicker's)that match up. Then we have the second story written by a different Herald Tribune reporter that doesn't match the other two stories. This second story appears about when Keller is in the process of moving to Ohio, trying to get her kid back, and trying to put her life back together. Or maybe she's pys-opts. But probably not.

In any case, we have here a classic disinformation pys-opts technique. We have two competing stories. The original points against the OCT and for the CT. The middle (2nd story) points away from CT and toward the OCT.

Remember the credible threat against Air Force 1 on 9/11?
It ended the same way. First it was a major threat, confirmed and reconfirmed numerous times by high White House officials and various other people on 9/11 and just after. Then it was just all a big mistake. Even the same officials who had originally given out the story all agreed it was just a big mistake. Go figure. Two stories, same pattern.

If you have read the 9/11 Commission's report on the hijackers, you know it's about as skeletal of a document as has ever been published. The point seems to be to provide as little information about the hijackers and their lives as possible. It's like they vacuumed and sterilized the histories of these people. They paint an entirely two dimensional picture of the named suspects for this maximum crime,
provide no background on why they went where they went, who they were.

My criticism of Hopsucker is that at times he gets too personally involved with his story and investigation. He puts too much flesh where maybe there isn't quite that much sometimes, and would benefit from a more hands on editor. He undermines his own credibility by becoming so personally involved in the narration of the investigation, at times, it almost becomes a blend of crime noir and investigative journalism, and both suffer for it.

The facts uncovered and the interviews are well worth the drawbacks, in my opinion. Hopsucker brings an insight to the Venice operation that we have seen reported and repeated about other hijackers having close access to other US Intel assets, such as the hijacker roomies of the FBI informant, the Able Danger operation, and various other US Intel and foreign intelligence agencies that had contacts with the hijackers here and around the world. Hopsucker convincingly ties one Venice hijacker flight school to 43 pounds of heroin seized in a plane flying weekly runs to Venezuela for cash and piloted by a CIA asset who apparently walked away without any further legal problems. That seems like pretty big news to me.

Or do you think that Heller changing her story to the papers makes the heroin/CIA connection go away?







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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Call it intuition.
The Keller story just doesn't feel right. "It wasn't Atta, it was Atta, it wasn't Atta..."

Boy, I'd feel real comfortable calling her as a witness to testify about anything. Not.

Ultimately, I feel that Hopsicker is inadvertently helping to build a "legend".

I have to consider the possibility that he applies the same degree of investigative thoroughness to other key testimonials, and other investigations.

I have to consider his dismissive attitude to-- well-- everybody else who questions 9/11 who isn't stomping around Florida with him;

"The Red Herrings of 9/11" (an ironic title?)
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0405/S00066.htm

"Re. Daniel Hopsicker On The 911 Inquiry"
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0405/S00076.htm

He has also made some broad characterizations about 9/11 skeptics and funding that I just don't buy;

Daniel Hopsicker on Dave Emory's show;
"Hopsicker & Emory on the '9/11 BS Movement'"
http://www.gnn.tv/B16446

I wish him the best of luck, but if I ever get around to writing a book I won't cite him. I'm sure he could care less.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. It was Atta first then it wasn't then it was then it wasn't, according to
Heller. Please keep the cronology straight. Otherwise it might feel even wronger.

Whatever the political struggles withen the 9/11 investigative world, I try to keep an open mind and pick and choose what makes sense and what doesn't. Hopsucker puts his documents on line (he has the fax from Atta out of Deep Creek dated 3/11/01) just like Heller told him in his videod interview, she placed him at that area at that time, just before he moved in with her in Venice.) Hopsicker also has the documentation of the Heroin plane ownership, the ownership of the flight schools on line at his site.

What more can a person do? I'd use his work or anybody's that seemed to me to be reliable and relevant, if I were writing a book.

Check out the fax from Deep Creek It's down page. This is big.

The fax is dated March 11, 2001. It was sent from a Postal Express store barely a mile from the house Atta and Marwan rented while attending Huffman Aviation at the Venice Airport, the home they were supposed to have left for good three months earlier.

http://www.madcowprod.com/index.html

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KJF Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-06-06 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. It's dated 3/11/2014
That can't be the real date, as it is in the future.

Look at the notes by the planes Atta wants to use. It says "Dec 26 - Jan 1st". The fax machine probably had the wrong date programmed into it. It's meaningless.

The stuff about the cell phone billing records was good, though.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
4. Why does the Tribune
have their files named in German for their pictures? :shrug:
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KJF Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm not that surprised about Keller
Some of the details are wrong and I don't think the story she told Hopsicker checks out. However, some of Hopsicker's other points still hold.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Hopsicker replies
If you remember, Dan Hopsicker had a video interview of Amanda Keller on his website.

Now we have these new historical revisions coming from the MSM.

What a quandry, Who to believe? The Jebland media machine or your lyin' eyes/ears?

Now hear Hopsicker's account about how he was asked to comment before the stories were fabricated for publication.

http://www.spitfirelist.com/mp3/F_571a.mp3
http://www.spitfirelist.com/mp3/F_571b.mp3
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Sorry, here are
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medienanalyse Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. Mrs. Keller does NOT say she wasn`t related to Atta
English is not my mother tongue.
My English is bad. My eyes are wors. And my mind is evil.

But hell: where is the quote what Keller says ?

It is all made up by that newspaper: a puzle of quotes of FBI officials adn one quote allegedly made by Keller.
"It was my bad for lying," Keller said. "I really didn't think about it until after I did it."

Let us take it face value. She is talking about how to escape an elder boyfriedn when she was ten years old. Or not ? Or she talks about having the first joint ? It is the way how primitive media make propaganda. Thgat is all. The whole isn`t worth to loose more than these words about it.

BTW: We learne to know Daniel as a gentle and trustworthy investigative jounalist. He didn`t take an argument in just when I told him. He is the "asking type". And has good humour.
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medienanalyse Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Bush attacks Iran
by saying :

"And this is a nation that has got citizens who are willing to sacrifice for a cause greater than themselves."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/05/20020517-1.html

Or is it referring to the Japanese Kamikaze ?

This is the method. Take a quote and use it. And have fun. "Pull it" is another example.
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StrafingMoose Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Good point n/t
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