BYU Scholar, Sept. 11 Theorist, Resigns

[SeekingDemocracy]

PROVO, Utah (AP) -- A Brigham Young University physics professor who suggested the World Trade Center was brought down by explosives has resigned, six weeks after the school placed him on leave.

"I am electing to retire so that I can spend more time speaking and conducting research of my choosing," physics professor Steven Jones said in a statement released by the school.

His retirement is effective Jan. 1, 2007.

(snip/...)

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BYU_PROFESSOR_SEPT_11?SITE=MOSPL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[kestrel91316]

1. I'm surprised he didn't say he was resigning to

spend more time with his family.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Good for him

Now he can focus on his WTC research and not be restrained by BYU.

[SoCalDem]

3. we knew that was coming, didn't we?

anyone who challenges the "public-think" is eventually marginalized to the point of "early-retirement". :tinfoilhat:

[SeekingDemocracy]

4. So over 38 newspapers (google Steven Jones under 'news')...

...are willing to run this story, but DU can't leave this in the LBN section?

Now I remember why I lurk here and rarely post. Whats with the censorship?

[Codeine]

5. Not censorship.

9-11 stuff goes in the 9-11 forum.

[mirandapriestly]

7. I think it's censorship.eom

[Nozebro]

20. Sorry, but I just can't talk about that here. Wouldn't be prudent.

"Whats with the censorship?"

[dailykoff]

6. It's a rare scholar that will sacrifice security for truth.

Very rare. This professor is, indeed, a true American hero.

:patriot:

[mirandapriestly]

8. I wondered why BYU was letting him have freedom of speech

So, I was disgusted , but not surprised to hear he had taken leave. They must have told him he couldn't talk about it any more, so he left. God, this is America? It is more proof, IMO, that there IS something to hide. This makes me feel more strongly in support of him, although I do wish he would deal with more unexplained issues.

This makes me more supportive of him, and more skeptical of Reynolds/Woods.

[LARED]

9. Good news

I fully support Mr. Jones desire to study whatever he wants to, but he clearly presents a danger in the classroom to unsuspecting students

[Nozebro]

11. What's the danger in presenting the truth to university students? On the

other hand, people like him have long been "persons of interest" to intelligence-related organizations and businesses, so Jones might not be as "innocent" as he appears.

[LARED]

13. Presenting the truth? Have you read his material?

He should be ashamed of himself, trying to past that nonsense off as truth. It's not peer reviewed, it is not based on science, it's largely authoritative sounding nonsense.

[oblivious]

18. Have any of the official reports been peer reviewed?

[DoYouEverWonder]

12. Oh give me a break

I'm sure he's been a fine teacher and most of his career has had little to do with 9-11 and his theories about that event.

[LARED]

14. I've no clue how fine of a teachers he's been,

and I doubt you do. No matter what, his involvement in spreading 9/11 foolishness is not professional nor scholarly. He should not teach and continue 9/11 his "research" endeavor.

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. That's what he's doing

n/t

[LARED]

17. I know, hence good news n/t

[Nozebro]

16. What 9/11 foolishness? Hard to top the OCT foolishness YOU support.

nt

[mhatrw]

25. Why not? Have you ever heard of the principle of academic freedom?

[LARED]

30. Of course

academic freedom requires academic responsibility. Jones was acting irresponsibly by involving BYU with his unusual and completely unjustified interpretation of the WTC collapses. He published unscholarly work, is creating a embarrassing situation for his employer, and has exposed himself as out on a limb insofar as his credibility as a teacher.

[mhatrw]

32. Academic freedom is academic freedom.

If what you are saying were true, college students would be old enough to think for themselves about it.

That's why we have liberal arts institutions.

You can't be for academic freedom except when you disagree.

[LARED]

33. Let me test your theory

Would you be ok with a professor teaching that sexual intimacy between 40 year old men and 12 year old boys is an acceptable relationship.

Or if a professor taught and published papers that blacks are inferior to whites.

Or of a professor taught and published papers that the moon really was made of cheese.

Surely college students are old enough to think for themselves in these cases.

[mhatrw]

38. Yes, of course they are.

Have you ever read Mein Kampf? Do you understand the concept of exploring ideas even if you don't agree with them?

Academic freedom is academic freedom. If we followed your lead and confined academic inquiry only to popular, establishment-approved topics, we'd still believe the other planets revolve around the Earth.

[LARED]

39. That's quite interesting

To use my second example framed with your view of academic freedom, you would have no problem with a University professor teaching, based on defective but articulate research, that blacks are inferior to whites?

If you truly believe your version, you must support this in the classroom.

[mhatrw]

42. Many professors can and do claim that there are significant human racial

differences. It's like the pope saying Islam leads to violence. I certainly disagree strongly and loudly, but I don't try to shut down the debate. That would be counterproductive in every way.

Contrary to what what you (and the DOD) would have us believe, ideas aren't our enemies.

[LARED]

43. We are not talking about having a debate

we are talking about academic freedom. Teachers don't debate, they teach. (They may use debate as a method to teach).

You think teachers should be able to teach any nonsense they want in the name of academic freedom, no matter how irresponsible.

BTW, drop the nonsense about the DOD, it just make you look silly.

[mhatrw]

44. Do you have any evidence that Professor Jones TAUGHT his

theories about 9/11 to his BYU classes? No, because he did not.

Furthermore, even if he did, do you have any evidence that he would have presented these ideas as anything other than a discussion for his class's consideration? No.

So what are you on about other than "fighting the net" as usual?

[LARED]

46. I never said he did.

We digressed into a discussion about academic freedom.

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=122922&mesg_id=123013

I said

I've no clue how fine of a teachers he's been, and I doubt you do. No matter what, his involvement in spreading 9/11 foolishness is not professional nor scholarly. He should not teach and continue his 9/11 "research" endeavor.

Or to put it another way, he is embarrassing BYU with his actions, they have every right to remove him from teaching.

[mhatrw]

48. So it's not about the poor kids' young minds but about BYU getting

"embarrassed" by the extracurricular intellectual pursuits of one of its faculty?

This is what academic freedom is all about. It's sad that your liberal arts education has been such that you don't support it.

[LARED]

49. It's about academic responsibility and credibility

If a professor advocated that blacks are inferior to whites, was strongly associated with a university, was using university resources to test theories, and published non peer reviewed paper to that affect; he would be dismissed in about 2 seconds because he was acting irresponsibly and sullied the Universities name.

This is no different from what Jones is doing. Bad science, non peer reviewd work, associated with a University.

[mhatrw]

50. He was just fine when he speculated Jesus walked among the Indians.

What changed?

[LARED]

51. I've never made a issue of his work regarding Jesus

YOu do realize BYU is a Mormon University?

[mhatrw]

52. You do realize your double standard? n/t

[LARED]

53. Missed it. Tell me about it. n/t

[Nozebro]

45. YOU are the only one talking about teaching nonsense. Only YOU.

OCT'ers prerogative, I know.

[Bryan Sacks]

23. Every professor is potentially 'dangerous',

if your definition of dangerous is: tends to discount credible evidence/theories that opposes his/her own. It goes the same for any subject.

What evidence is there that Jones did this? It seems that you're implying that his views preclude his making a fair presentation of the range of debate on the subject. Obviously, that's not necessarily the case. It's for his student to decide if his presentation is unscrupulous, as it is for students in any field.

[LARED]

34. Are you suggesting academic institutions allow unscrupulous

professors free reign, and hope the students figure out he is teaching them BS?

It's for his student to decide if his presentation is unscrupulous, as it is for students in any field.

[Nozebro]

35. What is the alleged unscrupulousness which you cite as a reason for

why you fear (for the children, of course) Professor Jones? FWIW - I'm currently agnostic about the gentleman myself, because of concerns that he might be working on YOUR side...for the government.

[LARED]

36. I didn't say Jones was unscrupulous

I think he really believes the nonsense he espouses. His 9/11 work is un-scholarly and put BYU in an embarrassing position.

[Nozebro]

41. Oh, I see. Kind of like you and yours.

The difference is: Jones is probably on more solid ground whenever he says something, whereas you don't
have to necessarily believe the nonsense you espouse since it's almost never anything more than OCT'er spin.

[Bryan Sacks]

40. Not at all. That's what faculty oversight committees should be for.

But students, college students I mean, should be oriented toward analyzing what's being presented to them. In that sense they decide every class about what's being presented. if they have no idea about the subject, they have to invest some trust, obviously, in the professor. But over time and with increasing familiarity with both a subject and a professor, students can and should become good judges of scrupulosity.

[mhatrw]

24. Way to demean adult college students while standing up for

academic freedom!

If you can't win this argument by discussing it, you'll win it by completely shutting down all discussion! Right?

[Nozebro]

28. There are some people whose job consists of "shutting down discussion"

Understand, there aren't ANY here, but I've heard and read about professional disinformation agents
going to supposedly "liberal" sites and pretending to be something they aren't.

[helderheid]

10. It's been aired on our local news numerous times VIDEO >>

http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_294191655.html

and

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=582631

[whistle]

19. That is too bad, but as one door closes another opens and

...I believe Professor Steven Jones has much bigger work to do exposing the lies surrounding the official conspiracy theories of what happened on 9/11. The best of luck to Dr Jones and God speed.:kick:

[Chomp]

21. Once again throughout

this thread the constant implication that those who don't believe in the CT are somehow mindless, brianwashed, moronic idiots, incapable of coming to a conclusion other than that laid out to them by the Man.

Yawn.

[mhatrw]

26. What? The issue is academic freedom.

Are you really against academic freedom?

[Chomp]

29. Ok

1. Please don't patronise me
2. Please don't tell me what the issue is, I can work it out myself
3. Please don't put words in my mouth
4. Please continue beautifully illustrating the exact point I was making



Owned.

[mhatrw]

31. What is this issue then?

That having an opinion you'd rather not discuss rubs you the wrong way? That others having a strong opinion that you do not share nor wish to discuss rubs you the wrong way?

I'm just asking because otherwise I don't understand. You don't seem to agree that the issue is academic freedom, but so far you refuse to explain what the issue is other than the fact that you take offense at people who have a strong opinion that you don't share. That line of argument is spurious in that it could apply to any strongly held opinion whatsoever (as in, "These people who don't like slavery are SO insulting!"). You don't get any points with me personally for taking your ball and going home because you are offended, but if you'd like to believe otherwise that's certainly your right.

[SidDithers]

22. Wow, what a surprise...

and now, instead of a semi-disgraced washout scientist, he's a martyr for the cause.

Good grief.

Sid

[mhatrw]

27. So you disapprove of BYU putting him on leave?

He didn't martyr himself. He was martyred by BYU's administration.

[ryanus]

37. I'm not donating to my alma mater

at least not for awhile. I went to BYU. Had a great time. Prof. Jones was one of my physics professors. BYU really screwed this one up.

[Klimmer]

47. It is sad it worked out this way. BYU really screwed-up . . .

I wish Prof. Jones only the best. He has been put through a lot.

On the bright side, now he can devote himself and more time to his scientific studies and expose the truth of 9-11 even more. Though, I'm sure he is going to miss teaching and interacting one on one with students. I know I would. I teach.

He is a very brave man and a true American hero. I look forward to more of his scientific studies and discoveries concerning 9-11 . . .

regardless of what LARED has to say about it.

(LARED: one of the original and one of the most well known OCTers in the 9-11 dungeon at DU. This begs the question --- why?)

[earth mom]

54. I don't blame him one bit!

Hope he stays safe while he continues to uncover the truth!