Has anyone seen a movie on the internet titled "Loose Change"?

[Uncle Joe]

This movie is regarding a 9/11 conspiracy theory and I have some co-workers with different political views than my own suggesting I should view it.

[Lex]

1. Go to youtube and do a search

and perhaps it will be there?

[Ignacio Upton]

2. Oh God not that "documentary" again

BTW, if you want to learn about the BS from LC, go to this site (yeah the guy who runs it is a Repub, but his debunking of shit like controlled demolition is way more thought out than Avery & Co's "research.")

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

[Ignacio Upton]

3. BTW, this should probably go into the 9/11 forum

n/t.

[angry_chuck]

4. here

http://youtube.com/results?search_query=loose+change&search=Search

There is a lot of clips.

Want well researched conspiracy? http://www.infowars.com
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230&q=terrorstorm&hl=en

-------------THIS IS IT W/ MORE FACTS IN CONTEXT W/ REFERENCES-------------------------
http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[soothsayer]

5. You'll find it either on google video or youtube for sure

[PaDem]

6. I watched it............

some parts are more convincing than others. Frankly I just can't imagine a conspiracy of that magnitude being pulled off without a whistleblower coming forward by now.

[angry_chuck]

8. watch terrorstorm

the whistleblowers are silenced by MSM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230&q=terrorstorm&hl=en

[pretzel4gore]

14. Jack the Ripper....

Basically, everybody's heard of 'jack the ripper'. He was a london serial killer of prostitutes who, supposedly, has never been identified. A vast industry of speculators grew up following the Whitechappel murders of 1887. Jack has inspired countless movies, books and more hookum than can be counted. As recently as 2002 an upper class twit named patricia cornwell wrote a doorstopper which identifies the ripper as an artist who passed away in 1945!
There were many reasons why 'Jack the Ripper' became such a legend. First, literacy had just become common among ordinary people in Britain at the time, and the 'penny press' type newspapers had become popular: the Jack the Ripper case became the biggest thing since sliced throats, i mean bread! The papers needed the ripper case, just like today they need jon benet ramsey, or oj simpson....Also, the Victorian era forced everything 'improper' underground; but outright depravity in terms of/the result of, terrible poverty was allowed to openly exist in every major British city. Another reason, of course, was that the 'Ripper' was a true Ted Bundy type killer: he performed his ghastly deeds within feet of sleeping citizens, and barely out of sight! All this combined together to create the legend.
The problem is, there never was a 'Jack the Ripper'
Montague John Druitt was the crazy bastard who killed the 5 women. He was reported to the police by his own family (the name 'Jack the Ripper' was a creation of a busybody journalist who sent the cops/newspapers messages from the supposed fiend...it wasn't until later that Druitt used the 'J the R' handle, if indeed he ever did) Druitt was an upper class twit, a member of the
gentlemen class. His suicide shortly after the Kelly murder ended the story, and the police closed the case....however, as we can see, that's NOT what happened!
After all, in Victorian England, what benefit did it anyone by identifying a public schoolboy, a member of britain's high society, as the horrible murderer of poor, desperate lost working class women? And what harm was served keeping police files close, or substituting fake info over the years, to create a harmless legend? And think of all the money made! Lots of poor people have earned money too on Jack the Ripper: wouldn't that be cruel to deprive all those workers of the work involved in maintaining the fiction that there's some kind of mystery behind the 'Jack the Ripper case'?
think about it....
snip>
MONTAGUE JOHN DRUITT
Montague John Druitt was a "gentleman", a successful college debater, keen cricketer and of "good family". It wasn't until 1959 that Druitt, a schoolmaster, was pronounced a probable suspect. Sir Melville Macnaghten's case notes described Druitt as "sexually insane" and it was mooted that even "his own family suspected him of being the Whitechapel Murderer". Druitt's personal circumstances link him with the killings too. He had studied medicine for a time before switching profession to become a barrister and was a very educated man. Any barrister would appreciate the need for a suspect to be well away from the scene of the crime if his case were to be defended with success. Druitt was found playing cricket as far away as Dorset in South West England after the murders of Mary Nichols and Annie Chapman, although his whereabouts in the actual nights of the murders remain unresolved. The primary reason for Druitt becoming a high profile suspect was that he feared he was going insane like his mother before him, In a suicide note Druitt wrote "Since Friday I felt I was going to be like Mother and the best thing for me was to die". The note was discovered on his person on 31st December 1888. He had drowned in the River Thames, his pockets full of stones. Druitt was seen alive on 3rd December, 1888, almost one month after the last Murder and 2 days after his dismissal from his teaching job in Blackheath. Druitt's death remains a mystery, as does his alleged connection with the Ripper Case. It is true , however, that the Police closed the Ripper file following Druitt's suicide. The dreadful killings perpetrated by "Jack The Ripper" were never repeated beyond Druitt's death. Was this coincidence or conjecture?
http://www.accomodata.co.uk/suspects.htm

[John Q. Citizen]

17. It's interesting, but that is probably the #1 reason I hear from people

who figure who that a 9/11 conspiracy couldn't happen.

But what magnitude are you imagining in terms of people on the inside? My bet is it wouldn't have required more than 15 or 20 people who knew most of the whole story, if that many.

If you look at the Iran Contra Conspiracy, no whistle blower ever came forward, even though they had to load all those TOW missiles up, fly or ship them to Iran, unload them, then the Iranians shipped back cash to the US which in turn was used to buy supplies (weapons, military equipment) in the US and shipped to the conspiracy's sponsored Contra terrorists in Nicaragua. This sequence was repeated numerous times. That went on for a long time until a Contra supply plane from the US happened to get shot down and one of the American mercenaries working for the conspiracy lived and spilled the beans after he was captured and imprisoned by the Nicaraguan Government. Cocaine proceeds from importation to the US were also used to fund the contras. No one ever did any time for any of this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair

Another example is that Operation NorthWoods made it's way from conception all the way to being approved by the Joint Chiefs of staff. That plan called for hijacked planes, the deaths of a lot of Americans, sunk ships, bombings in US cities blamed on Cuba to push American opinion to support a war on Cuba, a false flag operation. No one found out about it for 40 years, no whistle blower stepped forward and said, how could you plan to do this? How many people were involved in this? Quite a few, just in the planning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods.

And of course the Gulf of Tokin false flag operation that led to large US intervention in Viet Nam and to the deaths of 10's of thousands of Americans remained secret for years. That had to involve quite a few people also, both in the initial operation and in the subsequent cover-up. That remained secret from about 1964 until 1971, a period of 7 years, until Daniel Ellsberg stuck out his neck and copied and the Pentagon Papers and sent them to the NYT and the WAPO. Ellsberg went through a lot of grief because of his couragous actions


As Webster Tarpley writes in his book (end of page 312 beginning of page 313- Chapter XII) Synthetic Terrorism; Made in the USA

As has been stressed throughout this book, US society today is neither a tyranny nor a democracy; it is organized from top to bottom according to the principle of oligarchy or plutocracy. The characteristic way in which an oligarchy functions is by means of conspiracy, a mode which is necessary because of the polycentric distribution of power in an oligarchical system, and the resulting need to secure the cooperation and approval of several oligarchical centers in order to get things done. Furthermore, the operations of secret intelligence agencies tend to follow conspiratorial models; this is what a covert operation means -- coordinated and preplanned actions by a number of agents and groups leading towards a pre-concerted result, with the nature of the operation remaining shielded from public view. So, in an oligarchical society characterized by the preponderant role of secret intelligence agencies -- such as the United States at the beginning of the twenty- first century -- anyone who rules out conspiracies a priori runs the risk of not understanding very much of what is going on.(bolding of text added)

you can read this chapter or the whole book online for free at the online library at http://www.american-buddha.com/911.syntheticterrormadeusa.htm It's a well written and very interesting book.

And I agree with you about Loose Change, PaDem. - Some parts are more convincing than others.

[Make7]

33. On whistle-blowers and false flags.

John Q. Citizen wrote:

If you look at the Iran Contra Conspiracy, no whistle blower ever came forward...

What about Gene Wheaton? A story appeared in the San Francisco Examiner with information supplied by him regarding covert funding of the Contras before the plane Eugene Hasenfus was in was shot down.

John Q. Citizen wrote:

No one ever did any time for any of this [Iran-Contra].

Didn't Thomas Clines serve over a year in prison related to his involvement?

John Q. Citizen wrote:

No one found out about it for 40 years, no whistle blower stepped forward and said, how could you plan to do this [Operation NorthWoods]?

Don't you think whistle-blowers are more likely to come forward to report on things that actually happen rather than on things that have been planned but rejected? With all the risks involved in being a whistle-blower, I don't find it that surprising that no-one came forward to expose something that was never even implemented.

John Q. Citizen wrote:

And of course the Gulf of Tokin false flag operation...

The what? Wasn't the first Gulf of Tonkin incident a minor skirmish between a few North Vietnamese torpedo boats and a U.S. destroyer? Which was followed by a second Gulf of Tonkin incident two days later that never actually involved any enemy vessels?

Unless you are claiming that the NV torpedo boats in the first attack were not really NV vessels, I fail to see how it could be considered a false flag operation. Perhaps I am unclear on how you are using the term.

John Q. Citizen wrote:

That remained secret from about 1964 until 1971, a period of 7 years, until Daniel Ellsberg stuck out his neck and copied and the Pentagon Papers and sent them to the NYT and the WAPO.

Although the excerpt from the Pentagon Papers quoted below brings up the uncertainty about whether the second attack had occurred, I don't think anything in the released documents offers the conclusion that there was no second attack.

Mr. McNamara returned to the Pentagon at 3 P.M. to approve the details of the reprisal strikes, code-named Pierce Arrow. An execution order was prepared by the Joint Staff, but at 4 P.M. Mr. McNamara learned from Admiral Sharp in a telephone conversation that there was now confusion over whether an attack on the destroyers had actually taken place.

   -snip-

The admiral called back at 5:23 P.M. and again a few minutes after 6 o'clock to say that he was satisfied, on the basis of information from the task groupcommander of the two destroyers, that the attack had been genuine. The study says that in the meantime Mr. McNamara and the Joint Chiefs had also examined the confirming evidence, including intercepted radio messages from the North Vietnamese saying that their vessels were engaging the destroyers and that two torpedo boats had been sunk.


p. 262, The Pentagon Papers, Bantam Books, July 1971

Perhaps my paperback copy of the "complete and unabridged series as published by the New York Times" is missing whatever it is that you are talking about. Maybe you could actually provide a quote if you think something in the book is relevant to your point.

John Q. Citizen wrote:

My bet is it wouldn't have required more than 15 or 20 people who knew most of the whole story, if that many.

But how many additional people would have had to remain silent in order to keep it a secret?

- Make7

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. Yes

It deals with the 911 conspiracy. It was recommended to me by an apolitical co-worker who I had been trying to get to watch F-911 forever. Hey, it got this guy deciding that the Bush Administration are crooks, so I think that is good.

[Ezlivin]

9. Remember: Conspiracies the size of the Manhattan Project are impossible

And the stealth plane project.

Those that claim that "too many people will spoil a conspiracy" obviously are unaware of the historical record.

Loose Edition is at its second revision and it is moving into the third. There is talk of it becoming a documentary backed by major folks

There are other documentaries that do a good job at dissecting various elements of the 9/11 events.

I suggest "911 Mysteries: Part 1 - Demolitions" Another good one is "9/11: Press for Truth"

[petgoat]

18. "Press for Truth" is bulletproof. All the research is from

mainstream news sources.

Another good one on the destruction of the towers is

"Improbable Collapse" http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4026073566596731782

[CJCRANE]

34. I like Press for Truth

because it just gives you facts and you can join the dots yourself (if you choose to).

[Uncle Joe]

10. I want to thank everyone who has responded,

I plan on checking it out, but I wanted to have this thread to show them as well.

[angry_chuck]

11. this version is freepin me out

it is called screw loose change. It is 1hr long and I am almost 30 min in. It is getting pretty freepy. I would recommend
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230&q=terrorstorm&hl=en
but then I like research with more substance (terrorstorm!) than pretend substance (which is what 'screw loose change' has to offer.)

[LARED]

12. That's one of those fictional stories based on

real events.

[tpsbmam]

13. Here's the Google link.....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501

Loose Change 2 is supposedly the better version -- that's what's linked above.

It's also played at least once on Sundance. If you get that channel and have a way to record it, that might be easier (I personally don't have the patience to sit in my office and watch a video that is going to last any longer than about 15 minutes).

You can also get it really cheaply or for free on DVD -- just look around.

[William Seger]

15. Skip it and watch Screw Loose Change instead

It's an annotated version of Loose Change, exposing how much of it is, um... less than credible.

[petgoat]

16. You're better off waiting for Loose Change 3, which should

be out in a couple of months with the worst of the research errors fixed.

But if you have a good tolerance for ambiguity, go ahead and watch Loose Change 2.

[G Hawes]

19. moved

posted in wrong spot

[G Hawes]

20. They have a problem with "truth", those loose change boys

but sure, by all means, go and watch it so that you can see for yourself how pathetic and how dishonest it is. if you do that, though, you should also take a look at http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html and http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/ to preserve your sanity.

anyway, there are various versions of the loose change video out there, the earlier versions were even worse than the current versions (hard to believe, i know, if you never saw the early versions), but they are all pretty bad. how many revisions and remakes does the "truth" take anyway?

the latest version is still pathetic and the boys who produced it admit that it is full of errors (lies, actually). i have no reason to believe that version 5 or 6 or 7 (whatever they're up to now) will be any better. (they might call it version 3 but anyone who has been around for a while knows that there have been numerous changes and do-overs along the way, which makes it more like version 5 or 6 or 7 by now, but who's counting?)

in any event, all the best to you. hope you get through the loose change videos without pulling your hair out or tossing a brick at the monitor as a result of the sheer stupidity illustrated in whichever version of the video you happen to watch.

[petgoat]

29. There is plenty of reason to think LC3 will be much better.

Most of LC2 is just fine. They just lend a bit too much credence to some
very speculative stuff. They're young, they're not widely experienced in
the world, and it takes a philosopher like David Ray Griffin to chart a
course through the epistemological minefield of the 9/11 lore without stepping
on something destructive.

A bunch of grownups are helping them edit the blunders out of the next version.

[G Hawes]

30. I disagree.

Most of loose change 2 is not "fine" at all, it has been roundly and soundly debunked all over the place for being full of wrong information, distortiions and outright lies, and the LC boys themseelves have admitted that it contains lies and misinformation.

They're not so young that their age is any excuse for their ignorance. They want to play grownups so it's their problem when they can't quite make it to grownup standards.

They have made an industry out of profitting from the tragedy of 9/11 so they are not exempt from criticism when their efforts fall short of legitimate and decent work.

I expect better from young adults and I don't think their age is any excuse for their ignorance and their deliberate dissemination of misinformation. Do you have children? If so, would you excuse such incompetence and such deliberate lies on their behalf? I wouldn't. It's okay to be mistaken. It's not okay to be wrong and deliberately disseminate BS.

Griffin won't be any help to them. Frankly, he seems to be nearly as delusional as the LC guys are.

If it's true that the "final cut" of LC will be factual (which I doubt), that means that the "final cut" will be entirely different than the previous several versions of the video, because all of the previous versions have been full of crap. They've edited each subsequent version along the way to delete the most egregious errors after those errors were pointed out by others. (as far as i know, they've never altered anything on their own initiative, but only when real researchers have pointed out their outrageous mistakes to them). If they are to really get rid of all the egregious errors of the latest version of loose change, there will be nothing left of the original at all, and they'll be reduced to making something like a remake of someone else's work (names not included here) since loose change never included any facts or reality in the first place. I wonder what will happen then, and whether they'll get taken on by those whose work they've plagiarized. It could get interesting.

More likely, it will just be another boring video bereft of facts and bereft of evidence, and without all of the "compelling" stuff that they've been forced to remove, I think it will just be boring and lame. Even more boring and more lame than the previous versions.

I guess we'll see.

[pauldp]

21. I would strongly suggest watching "911 Press for Truth" instead.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5589099104255077250&q=911+press+for+truth

LC 2 relies too much on physical evidence speculation and not enough on evidence already
reported in the press (albeit buried) such as the connections between CIA, Pakistani intelligence, and Al Qaeda.

43 years after the Kennedy Assasination people are still arguing over the physical
evidence. I would bet certain people in power would like the same thing to happen
with 911. The MIHOP debate does not need to be a debate about science, despite
the way some people try to characterize this movement.

[JackRiddler]

22. Junk

And I don't mind saying so. Uninformed frat boys jumping on a bandwagon - hijacking it, in fact, by taking up the most extreme ideas, or else finding chewable but usually wrong evidence and arguments for ideas that otherwise may be right, and setting it to "cool" music. A bit of Goebbels' technique, unconsciously absorbed, mixed in with MTV.

Want documentaries thoughtfully deconstructing the official conspiracy theories and establishing the evidence and arguments for 9/11 as an inside job?

9/11 Press for Truth (exposing the fraud of the 9/11 commission)

Improbable Collapse (demolition theory)

Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime (a construct of how the attacks were facilitated from within the government)

(Full disclosure: I had a consulting role on 2 of the above.)

Sites?

911Truth.org

If you want arguments for demolition (I'm a heretic in the movement for my agnosticism and circumspection) see wtc7.net and a paper by Dr. Jones.

9/11 was the result of a US-based covert operation, regardless of whether in addition the Towers and WTC 7 were brought down using explosives.

See ya.

[rman]

23. what they are saying: see "9/11 Press for Truth"

http://www.911pressfortruth.com/

the whole thing:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5589099104255077250

[rman]

24. dupe deleted

[mogster]

25. There is a range of information available

Personally, I wish I'd been as political awake as the producers of Loose Change when I was at their age. They've managed to raise serious questions about the official story, and created a film genré that has the ability to reach out to many people below the mainstream radar.

Here are some more films to watch:
Improbable Collapse : The Demolition of our Republic
1 hour 9 minutes
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4026073566596731782
Featuring Steven Jones and several others from Scolars for 911 truth. Focuses on WTC 1, 2 and 7, and the strange physical exceptions of their collapse

Oil, Smoke and Mirrors
50 minutes
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8677389869548020370&q=Oil%2C+Smoke+and+Mirrors
Featuring Michael Meacher (former British minister for environment) and Andreas von Bülow (former German minister for technology), which both has serious doubts about the official theory. The film focuses on the Peak oil angle, which is an interesting insight into hawkish energy politics.

911 Mysteries
1 hour 30 minutes
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003
Much footage of the WTC collapse in this movie, and pretty good insight into the period leading up to 911, which reveals why there should be questions about wether the collapse was 'natural' or not.

The Great Conspiracy
1 hour 10 minutes
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6529813972926262623
Barrie Zwicker made a 911 news special, bringing it all into context regarding previous lies from the Bush I administration.

September Eleventh; Should the truth be revealed or concealed?
1 hour 17 minutes
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8119854514684528700&hl=en
A lecture by David Ray Griffin in Copenhagen summer 2006. He goes into the logic of 911 and also touches upon the mounting evidence that points towards a black flag operation.

9/11 - 2/1/2006 BYU Professor Steven E Jones WTC Lecture UVSC
2 hours 13 minutes
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586
A lecture by Steven Jones about the WTC collapse and the discrepancies concerning the official investigation. 'LO-FI' and no action, but you get an impression of why so many people ask questions about the official story.
A must for Steven Jones fans, among them: me!

[Bolo Boffin]

27. "Create a film genre"????

Christopher Guest has been making mockumentaries long before Dylan got his fat little fingers on a videocamera.

[mogster]

28. Maybe mr. Guest didn't have the same appeal to the Norwegian youth, lol

Does Dylan _really_ have fat little fingers, or is it just a projection from people that doesn't like him, I wonder

[rman]

31. "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6757267008400743688

Largely ignored by the mainstream media, many of the disturbing facts surrounding the attacks of 9/11 raise deeply ethical questions associated with issues of accountability, justice and censorship in America.

"Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime" may very well be the most compelling film yet outlining the disturbing and heavily censored facts associated with the worst terrorist attacks in American history. And while a grassroots movement worldwide continues to grow, and demand answers to the growing number of unanswered questions, the public outcry for accountability and transparency makes this film, perhaps, the most important film of 2006. "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime" is a free movie, produced by an independent artist, for educational and journalistic purposes only. Any proceeds derived from this premier event will go towards allaying the costs of presenting this film in the light of day, in New York City, in what is left of a free America in Tribeca.
http://www.911citizenswatch.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=855

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

32. It depends how you feel

If references the neo-nazi American Free Press a lot for its sources. That should tell you something.

[CJCRANE]

35. Loose Change is a mixed bag

some parts good, some bad. As mentioned above "9/11: Press for Truth" is a much better and more credible examination of the events.

[TheWraith]

36. Of course.

Not to put too fine a point on it, it's a lot of lies, half-truths, twisted facts, and general fabrications wrapped up and presented as truth. There are plenty of good sites which debunk it, and the assertions presented therein, including ScrewLooseChange, 911Myths, and others.

[wildbilln864]

37. Man I am so...

looking forward to the release of "Loose Change: The Final Cut"
Anyone know when it will happen?