OMG....do a google search on Makram Chams.

[TroubleMan]

This guy owned a convenience store in Florida, where Mohamed Atta and the other 9/11 terrorist received huge wire transfers and cashed huge money orders. How many convenience stores can cash a $70,000.00 money order? After 9/11 he closed down the store, and went to Saudi Arabia as a contractor for Titan Corp.

You might have heard of Titan Corp. They were the defense contractors involved in the Abu-Ghraib tortures. They were involved in the Duke Cunningham bribery scandal. They were big investors in SkyWay Aircraft, which owns a plane that a few months ago was busted in Mexico with 5.5 tons of cocaine on it. The plane was painted to look like a US Homeland Security plane. BTW...on January 10th, 2005 the State of Florida selected SkyWays to "Provide Integrated Airport Security System to the State of Florida Department of Transportation." Skyway is in DU's demopedia: (http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Al_Cokeda). Also, Titan was fined over 28 million dollars by the SEC for trying to fix an election in Benin.

Makram Chams partially-owned a casino ship called Vegas-in-Venice. One of the other partial owners was Max Burge, who was a partial owner of Hoffman Aviation. Huffman Aviation is the flight school Mohammed Atta learned to fly at.

All this in Florida while Jeb Bush was governor, and was a close associate of Wally Hilliard, who was also part-owner of Huffman Aviation.


How deep does the rabbit hole go?

[Bobbie Jo]

1. I don't know how deep it goes....

But I know the direction it takes.....

[lapfog_1]

2. I had a friend send me $600 via Western Union...

and a local convenience store was also a WU location. I needed cash to make a payment, they wouldn't pay me cash... the most they would do is $300 cash and the rest in money orders, which I had to go to another store to cash (and they wouldn't since these were now WU money orders, not Amex or some other standard money order.

I can't believe that some random store in Florida would do >$1000 much less $25,000 or bigger money orders from Saudi Arabia or any other damn place.

[pnorman]

3. I intend to VIGOROUSLY cross-check each and every point in this,

but I strongly suspect it's the truth. Thanks for posting this. The Adults will be in charge a month from now, and will be asking tough questions. Those bozos can shred documents from now till then, but SOMEWHERE on the network, there'll be a backup file or two.

pnorman

[TroubleMan]

4. Please do....I'm too busy to do comprehensive research.

Leave for work at 8 in the morning, get home around 9 at night, and have to watch 3 kids when I get home. I came across it, and thought it was significant. I wanted to bring this up so somebody who's a better researcher than me can look into this. If not, after the New Year, I should be able to research it more vigorously.

[petgoat]

8. Please do, but be aware, the Huffman/Hilliard/Khashoggi lore

is tangled and wide ranging. Don't take the red pill
lightly.

[RedSock]

14. adults

The Adults will be in charge a month from now, and will be asking tough questions.

Really?!?!?

As the minority party, the Dems have been about as silent as you can be about any real investigation into 9/11.

I would be shocked -- beyond shocked! -- if anything changes.

[wildbilln864]

16. I agree, please do!

These criminals have gotten away for too long.

[villager]

5. not to hijack your thread -- but I think that's my favorite Marvin Gaye song

meanwhile: thanks for the startling-- yet sadly unsurprising -- information!

[TroubleMan]

19. It's my favorite song of all time - hence the screen name.

Also, the lyrics unfortunately parallel my life in many ways.

[Fovea]

6. That ain't a rabbit hole

that is a kline bottle.
And we wonder how the DoD could misplace a trillion dollars?

[petgoat]

7. 2.3 Trillion. nt

[GreenZoneLT]

9. Oh Noes!!!!11!11, Jeb Bush set up 9-!!!1!!!!

Al Qaeda and the Bushies go WAYYYY back. :eyes:

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

[WinkyDink]

10. The Bushes and BinLadens certainly do. Still.

I find these connections very persuasive. I'm sure Florida has many convenience store, e.g., so why one that just happened to be owned by the guy who also owned another enterprise connected to Atta?

Who really was Atta, anyway?

[StrictlyRockers]

11. The Bush-Bin Laden (Al Qaida) connections have been extensively documented.

The investments by the Bin Laden family go into the hundreds of millions of dollars and back several decades. Bush's first oil company, Arbusto Oil, was funded by Osama Bin Laden's close relative. This was all factually documented several years ago. Most of us are up to speed on it. You, obviously, are not.

Your sarcasm and lack of information are not appreciated. Your link to a site which has done shabby research to discredit a marginal film is also underwhelming. The government's conspiracy theory leaves huge holes and questions unanswered that demand answers - questions like those raised in the original post in this thread.

If you have something to add to the debate, then post it. If you can shed light on the issues raised by the thread's poster, then do so. If you can discredit some of his points, great. It helps. But please don't post useless drivel. It is not helpful.

Thank you.

SR

[Katzenjammer]

12. Pretty obvious that Titan Corp is another of the many CIA fronts

Caveat: if those connections you recited are not just people getting excited and making 2+2 = 5. If they're verifiable, then that's the canonical behavior of a CIA front organization.

[John Q. Citizen]

13. Yes and Wally Hillard's plane was busted carrying 43 pounds of heroin

into Florida, as well.

[ftr23532]

15. Here's a couple of interviews of Hopsicker involving Chams

From Dave Emory's archives
http://wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=19369">FTR #554 Conservation with Daniel Hopsicker: The Wonderful World of Makram Chams
http://wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=21073&archive=31368">FTR#574 Interview with Daniel Hopsicker: Victor Kozeny's Last Stand

Interesting stuff!

[wildbilln864]

17. Hopsicker's website is...

here!

[John Q. Citizen]

18. Hopsicker does great investigative journalism. He get a lot of great facts

by just taking to people, scoring the newspaper morgues, and following the leads.

My one critisim is he could consense most of what he writes down to about 2/3 of his final product. His writing style is a bit expanded.

But he gets his facts right.

[wildbilln864]

22. I haven't heard...

of anyone refuting what he's saying. No one is saying much about his work at all. Seems strange though. Maybe just not wanting to give the attention and therefore attract more attention.

[John Q. Citizen]

23. The Sarasota Herold Tribune tried to debunk their own story on Atta's American

girlfriend, which Hopsicker first got from them and then followed up on and produced a lot more facts about. The Sarasota Herald Tribune apparently didn't like that so they have been attempting to discredit Hopsicker by calling him, insultingly, "conspiracy theorist"

Hopsicker is demanding a retraction from the Sarasota Times for thier insults and also for a story they published alledging a 5th Pilot.

http://www.madcowprod.com/11162006a.html



With the mini "terror" alert in Kiribati, Hopsicker has been completely vindicated.

FBI TERROR ALERT IN SOUTH PACIFIC
Terror Alert suspect fingered by Mohamed Atta's American girlfriend
An FBI terror alert has been released in the South Pacific for Wolfgang Bohringer, a German pilot first identified as a "close associate" of Mohamed Atta three years ago in the MadCowMorningNews and the opening chapter to "Welcome to TERRORLAND" in interviews with Atta's former American girlfriend, Amanda Keller.

"U.S. authorities have uncovered a plot to set up a flight training school in Kiribati and suspect the man behind it may have had links to September 11 mastermind Mohamed Atta," reported the Associated Press.

Bohringer recently fled tiny Fanning Island in the South Pacific aboard his yacht after a story in the MadCowMorningNews headlined "Close Associate of Mohamed Atta Surfaces in South Pacific" revealed his presence and drew attention to his suspicious intention to open, on an island with no electricity and barely a hundred inhabitants more than a thousand miles from a city of any size, a flight school to train pilots to fly only DC3's. ....more

http://www.madcowprod.com/

[wildbilln864]

24. kick...

Go Hopsicker!

[TroubleMan]

20. Yeah....interesting that none of the MSM wanted to interview Atta's girlfriend.

Hopsicker jumped in and did what the MSM was supposed to do.

You think they'd be all over that. However, the vision of a man who is a heavy drinker, drug user, dates a stripper, and frequents bars and strip clubs is not the type of man they wanted the hijacker to be. They wanted to portray him as some extreme devout Muslim, who spent all day praying to Allah. It looks like this guy wasn't religious at all. He was a political zealot instead of a religious zealot.

[John Q. Citizen]

21. And Atta's best friend was a white German guy who seems linked to

drug running and Western Intel.

Not a Moslem, not an Islamic, not an Arab.

[nam78_two]

25. some more Hopsicker interviews

Here's a couple more:
http://wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=20684">FTR#570 Interview with Daniel Hopsicker: Update on the German Connections to 9/11
http://wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=21307&archive=31804">FTR #577 Interview with Ed Haslam and Daniel Hopsicker: Truth and Consequences

Just came across these a few days ago...haven't finished listening but they seem interesting. I am starting to like this Dave Emory guy.

[John Q. Citizen]

27. Thanks for posting these links, I'm listening now. Very interesting. n/t

[mirandapriestly]

26. L-3 Communications (911 inside trader) bought Titan in 2005

DrDebug (1000+ posts) Mon Jul-03-06 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
74. L-3 Communications Holdings
Edited on Mon Jul-03-06 05:48 PM by DrDebug
L-3 Communications Holdings, Inc. is a leading merchant supplier of Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) products, secure communications systems and products, avionics and ocean products, training products, microwave components and telemetry, instrumentation, space and wireless products. The company claims a workforce of more than 25,000 employees and over $4.0 billion in sales in 2002. Among its customers, L-3 Communications Holdings includes the Department of Defense, selected US government intelligence agencies, aerospace prime contractors and commercial telecommunications and wireless customers. (1)

In conjunction with Lehman Brothers and Lockheed Martin, Lanza and LaPenta formed L-3 Communications to be a supplier of choice for prime contractors. In establishing the company, several advanced electronics businesses were purchased that were part of the Lockheed Martin, Loral Corporation merger that occurred in 1996. Also purchased from Lockheed Martin was a division located in Camden, NJ that had been part of General Electric. In 2000 they purchased Training Devices and Training Services of the Raytheon Company. On June 3, 2005, they bought Titan Corporation (2) (3) for $1.97 billion. (1)

L-3 Communications was one of the pre-9/11 inside traders.

Frank C. Lanza is the CEO of L-3 Communications.
General Jay M. Garner from the previous Iraq war (4) is their president SY Technology

Oh yeah, Salomon Smith Barney (5) helped raised their stock price with one their price manipulation schemes.

Sources:
1. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=L-3_Communic...
2. WSJ June 3, 2005
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Titan_Corpor...
3. See: Skyways and the 5.5 tons of cocaine
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
4. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Jay_M._Garne...
5. http://www.securitiesfraudfyi.com/salomon_smith_barney....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=97281&mesg_id=97728

I came across L-3 again when that baseball player's plane crashed into a Manhattan building, I thought there was something funny there and I was looking into it for awhile. Not the baseball player, but the flight instructor. I traced him to some flight school and then L-3 and then I though, no, I'll never get anywhere with this...

[wildbilln864]

28. great work as usual...

Miranda!
:)

[mirandapriestly]

31. oh that was Dr Debug, but thanks.eom

[John Q. Citizen]

29. I just went to L-3 website and it says Frank C. Lanza passed on.

L-3 Founder Dies, Leaving Company's Future in Doubt
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/07/AR2006060701179.html
By Renae Merle
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 8, 2006; Page D01

Frank C. Lanza, the forceful personality behind L-3 Communications Inc., died unexpectedly late Tuesday, spurring questions about the future of the $10 billion defense contractor, whose diverse businesses include providing translators in Iraq and making unmanned drones.

Lanza, 74, had surgery on his esophagus two months ago to relieve acid reflux. The New York-based company did not release the cause of his death.

snip
L-3's stock price immediately jumped on speculation that without Lanza the company would be vulnerable to a takeover attempt. L-3 shares rose $3.44, to $76.93.

L-3's largest acquisition in recent years was the $2 billion deal for San Diego-based Titan Corp., a defense technology company that supplies thousands of translators to the military. It also acquired companies that make small portable drones for the military, one that makes the machines that scan luggage at airports for explosive devices, and another that recruits soldiers for the Army.

more..

[mirandapriestly]

32. Frank Lanza was involved in Carlyle, as I recall..eom

[wildbilln864]

30. This should be....

all over news sites but threy'd rather tell us about insignificant shit!

[Spoonerian]

33. Chams' Kwickie Mart

My favorite Makram Chams story is the one that Hopsicker attibutes to the psychiatrist who worked at the Venice Hospital a few blocks south of Chams' "Kwickie Mart"--which apparently performed the same function for the Venice Airport Mafia that Satriale's Meat Market provided Tony Soprano and his crew.

http://www.madcowprod.com/05172006.html

“Nokomis Ave runs right behind the hospital in Venice,” stated the psychiatrist. "Each day as I left the hospital for the office I'd head north on Nokomis. At the corner of Nokomis and Miami there was this little (Kwik-Chek) convenience store run by middle-eastern types.”

“Half the time I'd be late for the office and I'd stop in there and grab something awful for lunch. A woman and a large man were usually behind the counter. Some days I'd go in there and no one would be behind the counter but there would be loud talking in the back.”

“A few times I saw Atta in there, hanging around. Once I made eye contact with him—dead on! Emphasis on "dead" because when we locked eyes a chill went through me and I thought: "He's got 'dead' eyes."

“When you become a shrink you sometimes get attuned to what might be going on with a person just from seeing how they look—their faces and eyes—on the street or in public. The chill I got when I saw Atta was not the chill of fear. It was a chill about how sick he looked. He looked to be one of the most depressed persons I'd ever laid eyes on.”

“He looked so depressed that it was as if he was already gone. In retrospect I feel he may have been just as happy to die for the sake of ending it all as he was to die for Allah.”

“A couple of weeks after 9/11 the convenience store closed up,” stated the psychiatrist, who has since moved out of state. “I was down there last summer visiting the old psych unit crew, nurses and staff, at a yearly reunion at Sharkey's, and the store was still closed up. I found a reference to the store on the TERRORLAND website, and it got me thinking.”

“I wish I'd paid more attention back then… but who knew?”

Hopefully enough people sent Hopsicker's lawyer some money so that he can deposition Chams.

Hopsicker's got a new report out today where he says that "they" arrested Bohringer, but released him forthwith after he flashed his get-out-of-jail-free card.