Thermite vs. Steel Engine Block

[mhatrw]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WrCWLpRc1yM

[Bolo Boffin]

1. Excellent...

Now please find reports of molten metal found underneath the car weeks after these experiments were filmed...

Also, please find precision explosives using thermite that could be adapted for the WTC towers...

Also, please explain the mechanism that kept the irreversible thermite reactions from going off inside the raging fire of the South Tower's northeast corner until just before collapse...

Also, please provide calculations of the amount of thermite necessary to "keep the building falling at near freefall conditions" or whatever it is you happen to believe about the fall of the towers...

I'm sure there must be a YouTube out there you can cut and paste with all that info in it.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Would you mind

posting a picture of what you consider to be a raging fire in the WTC?

I'd just like to know what you call a raging fire?

Thanks.

[LARED]

3. How about this?

[Bolo Boffin]

5. You've seen them all before.

The denial of raging fires in the WTC towers is one of the strangest parts of 9/11 CT. I expect any day that somebody claims that nothing actually happened on 9/11, that it was all holograms and trick photography.

This is a raging fire, and it is right where the "molten metal" comes from.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExrVgioIXvk

[wildbilln864]

9. do you have a pic...

of raging fires in WTC #7?
Thanks.

[Bolo Boffin]

12. Do you have a pic

of anything you consider to be a thermite reaction in WTC 7?

Thanks.

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. Thanks

Just wanted to have a reference point.

The pic above is one of the bigger fires. The NE corner of 81-82 are certainly engulfed in fire. Also 79 has a big one in about the middle of the north face. (This certainly is not what fireman would call a building fully engaged in fire like you see in the Madrid and Longbeach fires.)

Here's the same fire at 9:52 AM. If the pic above is correct then this is 53 minutes later.



Obviously, if the times are correct, then the fire certainly hasn't spread much and has even subsided in some places. Also notice that the damaged aluminum siding and the steel columns of the outer wall don't show much change between the two pics. The pieces of building that were severly damaged but attached at 9:14 AM, are still in the same condition at 9:52AM. Nor is there any sign of columns bending or floors sagging in either pic.

One more item that is significant is that the firewalls are still holding. The fire had not yet jumped through to the floors above or below or even further across the same floor in this section.

[Bolo Boffin]

16. Amazing.

I believe the term in question was "raging". I brought out a picture, and you have one from 43 minutes later (52 minus 14 equals 42, right?). I'm focusing on the fire in the northeast corner there, the one that produces the "molten metal". If you were standing next to that fire, would you dispute the term "raging"?

Because it seems to have subsided some after burning like that for 42 minutes, and even longer, if you calculate from the time it actually started. But it still is burning quite fiercely, wouldn't you say? All that time and it still appears to be "raging".

And to my mind, the point is: if that's thermite dripping out of that area, then:

a) how did it get there?

b) how did the people who got it there keep it from starting its irreversible chain reaction until now?

c) seeing that there is quite a large supply of aluminum alloy in that area (what of the plane that didn't fly out of the building), why does anyone need to postulate that as being thermite?

[petgoat]

18. It's not thermite pouring out, it's molten steel

How did the thermate get there? I guess "invisible jewish elves"
or whoever placed it INSIDE the hollow steel columns working after
midnight in the elevator shafts.

how... {to} keep it from starting its irreversible chain reaction

Umm, thermite is difficult to ignite. Especially when contained inside a hollow
steel box column.

{i] seeing that there is quite a large supply of aluminum alloy in that area...the plane...
why...postulate thermite?

Because aluminum melts at 600 degrees, and at that temperature it would be silvery.
To explain orange aluminum you must explain how the molten AL got corralled to
reach the high temp.

[Bolo Boffin]

19. I thought the point of the thermite video was its similarity to the WTC video.

So no one claims that WTC spill to be thermite? It's being caused by thermite, but there's no thermite in there?

Please, I'm trying to understand exactly what you're saying, or what someone's saying.

By the way, aluminum alloys have lower melting points than aluminum. Airplanes aren't built from pure aluminum. Plus, that alloy was further blending with lots of other burning material, so the orange color is understandable.

Now, please, explain why thermite is even being brought into the discussion, why that video was posted, if the similarities between it and the WTC footage aren't being exploited.

[Make7]

4. Are you just assuming that the engine block is steel?

From the video:

Narrator: "The engine block is the densest part of a car. It's basically a huge lump of metal, and well, it's very hard to melt."

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WrCWLpRc1yM   (1 min 46 secs)

- Make7

[mhatrw]

6. What do you propose it was made of? n/t

[Make7]

7. Candy canes. ( n/t )

[mhatrw]

8. Do you have any reason to believe that something that reacts at 2500 C couldn't

melt through steel?

[MervinFerd]

11. Yes. We've been through this before.

The heat has to be coupled into the metal. Thats going to be hard if you have a "large pile" sitting atop the surface.

[mhatrw]

20. Thermite/mate simply needs to released slowly as in the video experiment

What's the problem?

[Bolo Boffin]

21. Is thermite being released slowly in the video experiment?

I didn't get that at all...

[mhatrw]

24. The delivery is through the holes in the bottom of the clay pot.

What's with all this hoop jumping nonsense on the simple, self-explanatory subject of themite vs. steel?

[Bolo Boffin]

29. You say "hoop jumping", I say "Socratic method".

I learn, you learn, things are spelled out, everyone knows what's going on.

[mhatrw]

30. Socrates himself is particularly missed ... n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

31. Unless you're talking to his wife. n/t

[mhatrw]

25. And what's with all of these duplicate posts? n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

27. You're asking me?

I don't know.

[mhatrw]

28. "I forgot to tell you. I can't write."

"That's all right. There's no ink in the pen, anyway."

[Make7]

13. It all depends...

... on how much "something" you have, how it is brought into contact with the steel, and how thick the steel might be.

Given enough "something" adequately brought into contact with a given thickness of steel for a sufficient amount of time, it would melt through.

Of course, if there is not enough "something" or it is not applied properly, it won't melt through.

- Make7

[mhatrw]

22. Duplicate post. Sorry. n/t

[mhatrw]

23. Yes, you'd need the right amount held in contact for the right amout of time.

Kind of like in baking. Or making beer. Or doing any chemical reaction. Or building or destroying almost anything.

Do you have any reason to believe that there is no way to devise the successful delivery of thermite or even no simple way? In the video experiment, all they did was set thermite in a ceramic flour pot and let it ooze out over a period of many seconds. So why not simply devise a ceramic container with more carefully arranged holes fastened to the beam above the point thermite/mate contact? Or better yet, why not use a container made of any material with a ~2500 C melting point that would slowly melt the steel as well as most of the evidence of its existence? It could be attached to a small weight on the other side of the beam with a ceramic portion that would not melt and it could have a very lightweight ceramic skeleton. The steel beams might need to be notched a bit when these devices are installed.

[MervinFerd]

33. There may be a successful way. Can you show it to us?

Your device sounds vastly complicated. The only reason to postulate such a thing is to 'save' Professor Jones' reputation.

[mhatrw]

35. Sure, and baking a pie is "complicated."

Do you have any reason whatsoever to suspect that a compound that reacts at 2500 C and can easily melt a hole right through an engine block could not cut through a steel girder?

[petgoat]

17. Aluminum. nt sorry

[MervinFerd]

10. I see a lot of sparks. But not an engine block cut in half.

The block would be either cast Iron or aluminum.

[mhatrw]

26. The reaction takes place at 2500 C. Why in the world would you dispute its

ability to cut through steel? Does this make any sense whatsoever?

You just saw a little bit of thermite dripping out of a ceramic vase put a hole right though an engine block in a few seconds. It's like seeing a cluster bomb dropped on a building and then saying, "Yeah, but can it blow up a cardboard box?"

[MervinFerd]

32. The temperature doesn't matter. It's the amount of heat transferred.

And, I didn't see a hole through the engine block. I saw a hole in the "bonnet".

It's an impressive demonstration, but doesn't answer the question posed in the OP.

Can you show a picture of thermite cutting through a structural steel girder?

[mhatrw]

34. You are just being obtuse.

I showed you a video of thermite eating through an engine block.

You don't need an active imagination to put the picture you are looking for in your own head, unless you are simply choose to ignore the obvious.

[mattmiller]

14. like a memory

that reminds me of when a never-before-seen video of 9/11 was posted on DU, and it was never otherwise mentioned. i think the video that no one has ever seen before that might somehow show something about what happened if someone might investigate the video carefully is at this URL: http://www.flight77.info/doubleclip2.mpg

but then there are other more interesting things to talk about.

M

[wildbilln864]

36. Kick...

.

[wildbilln864]

37. it's also...

reffered to as thermit!