Why did Osama need WTC blueprints, pictures and construction materials?

[Ezlivin]

In a letter to Thomas Kean, FBI whistle-blower Sibel Edmonds stated:

After this document was received by the FBI Washington Field Office and retranslated verbatim, the field agent’s hunch appeared to be correct. The new translation revealed certain information regarding blueprints, pictures, and building material for skyscrapers being sent overseas. It also revealed certain illegal activities in obtaining visas from certain embassies in the Middle East, through network contacts and bribery.

If Osama wanted to fly aircraft into national landmarks or other points of interest, why did he need to have building blueprints and to know what building materials were used in constructing the buildings?

Did Osama have his own team of structural engineers on hand to tell him (according to the blueprints) where the ideal sweet-spot would be to strike with an aircraft? Because of the cave-dwelling engineers' calculations, Osama then "knew" that the buildings would collapse like a house of cards if they were hit in the right spot?

Of course if you wanted to plant explosive devices in buildings, the blueprints would be extremely helpful.

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. Whoever did take down the buildings

had to have seen the plans.

[Bolo Boffin]

2. Osama thought like Petgoat, actually.

He thought the towers, in best case scenario, would collapse above the point of impact only. He, unlike many CTists, comes from a construction background.

Are you going to make me go find the link?

[Ezlivin]

5. So Osama and his team of cave-dwelling structural engineers thought this out?

Man, Osama is just like God. He can do anything with nothing.

He even thought ahead to getting the blueprints and had time to pore over the construction details. He probably knew all about the drills to be held that day. Hell, he probably even called Larry Silverstein to chat about his insurance plan.

That's one fuckin' thorough terrorist. Almost like he was CIA-trained, eh?

[Bolo Boffin]

6. Do you dispute the quote? n/t

[Ezlivin]

7. Do you always answer questions with questions?

Or can you give one straight answer, then follow that with a question?

[JackRiddler]

20. You didn't actually quote...

And yes, the fat Osama who doesn't look like the other ones said this in the Nov. 2001 tape "found by Northern Alliance and handed over to US forces" in Nov 2001, released as the "confession tape" in Dec 2001. Supposedly made in Kandahar, smuggled out of it (while under siege) and ending up in Jalalabad (while under siege). Full of inaudibles. Subsequently provided by the State Dept. with a translation that the translators were given 10 hours to deliver. After 30 hours of work, translators hired by German TV program were unable to reconstruct said translation. Yeah, that tape.

[petgoat]

34. I was told by a woman I have no reason to trust or distrust

that Arabic-speaking friends of hers have said about the
tape in which Osama seems to be celebrating the collapse
that in fact he's laughing at its impossibility. He's
saying something to the effect of "There's no way the
planes would do that. How do they expect anybody to
believe that?"

I have no idea if there's anything to this.

[sabbat hunter]

13. before 911

osama wasnt really living in caves. you realize that right?

[Infernal Optimist]

17. Osama thought the towers would collapse above the impact?

He thought the towers, in best case scenario, would collapse above the point of impact only. He, unlike many CTists, comes from a construction background.

You mean the fatty Bin Laden video? Man, you are gullible. And, by the way, I don't see a direct quote anywhere in there. And, yes, I'd like to see some direct attribution where the real Bin Laden held this view.

[hack89]

3. What was the date of the report?

Perhaps it was early in the planning process before they decided on using planes after considering other alternatives like truck bombs.

[Ezlivin]

4. The date was provided in the link

Specifically, on page 5: "In October 2001, approximately one month after the September 11 attack, an agent from a (city name omitted) field office, re-sent a certain document to the FBI Washington Field Office, so that it could be re-translated."

Therefore the document had been existence prior to 9/11 and had already been mistranslated once (on purpose according to Edmonds).

By January 2001 the aircraft plan was a done deal; the pilots were deep into "training" (as it were). They were not considering truck bombs according to the subsequent FBI investigations. In fact it appears that they never thought of any other methodology.

[wildbilln864]

8. what do you bet...

those documents will dissapear? If not already happened.

[hack89]

9. I guess I meant ..

when was the document originally written.

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. OF course, that's what they want everyone to believe

Just 19 hijackers and 4 passenger jets. If they allowed for any other scenario the insurance liability would be enormous.

[KJF]

11. As far as I remember...

... the blueprints weren't just for the WTC, but for other buildings as well. My hunch is that it was for the Mubtakkar thing they had. It was a gas weapon and you needed building diagrams to know where to place it (in the middle of the air conditioning system - it would then pump poisonous gas into the air conditioning and everyone in the building would die). Luckily, the Mubtakkar attacks never happened.

It's a total scandal that the FBI is involved in this, but I don't think it's directly 9/11 related.

[John Q. Citizen]

12. When one considers that they allowed Osama to get the blueprints that

NIST and FEMA couldn't get it kind of says it all.

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. Maybe that's why in 1993

that's why they parked the truck bomb over the AC system, rather then underneath the Towers?

[petgoat]

14. According to Peter Lance, al Qaeda had the WTCblueprints

before the 1993 bombing.

"{Ahmed Amin}Refai was a naturalized Egyptian who was working as an accountant in the FDNY for twenty-five years and was later discovered by Fire Marshal Ronnie Bucca a) to have obtained the plans to the World Trade Center prior to the bombing and b) in 1999 to have lied to obtain a second ID to Metrotech, which is the city's most secure building, the FDNY's new headquarters where the plans of most of the city's buildings are kept....

"Woods then said that in the early 90s (prior to the bombing) the capital budget unit where she and Refai were located was being renovated. They had some old green filing cabinets where the blueprints of a number of buildings were kept from when the inspection department was in that area. They were throwing them out. She had two dumpsters and they were just tossing these old blueprints. She went to lunch one day and came back to find Refai digging through the dumpsters. She said he had found the blueprints to the Trade Center. (Another Marshal also told me Refai also had the blueprints to the bridges and tunnels.) But in any event Kay Woods specifically remembered the World Trade Center blueprints and Refai asking, "Can I have these?" At the time she thought nothing of it. The day of the first World Trade Center bombing (February 26, 1993), Refai called in sick. He then became extremely paranoid. Woods described a pattern where he told her he thought the FBI was bugging his garage.

"Ronnie Bucca then discovered that the FBI had interviewed him twice in 1994. But more specifically Ronnie found out from people in the fire department that this man, Refai, had been seen in new footage walking near the Blind Sheikh, holding his arm. So Ronnie went up to Channel 7 Eyewitness News where Ronnie knew a film editor who did him a favor. Ronnie had no expectations, but by the fourth or fifth cassette he was looking at, he found the tape showing Refai on the arm of the Blind Sheikh, acting like his bodyguard , moving him through the crowd, while whispering in his ear -- like an intimate of one of the most dangerous terrorists America has ever known."

http://www.writerswrite.com/journal/oct03/lance4.htm

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. Just like in 2001

whoever planned the 1993 bombing knew exactly what they were doing and in 1993 their intent was not to bring the Towers down.

Think of 1993 more like a test run, with the extra added benefit of giving the planners an excuse to do extensive renovations to the mechanical systems in the WTC complex.

[jschurchin]

18. Don't you think it's kinda odd

that al qaeda can get a copy of the prints, but american citizens, cannot.

[John Q. Citizen]

21. Osama probably knows somebody. n/t

[mirandapriestly]

22. lol.eom

[LARED]

19. I'm curious what you make of this Mr/Ms Petgoat

Was Refai as CIA asset? Spy? Double agent? Radical Islamist? Al Qaeda member? al Jihadist, Muslin Brotherhood? Dupe? False flag? What?

How does this fit into LIHOP, or MIHOP?

I appreciated the fact that you reference the OCT, in shedding some light on up how blueprints got into al-Qaeda hands.

[petgoat]

25. I only reported what Mr. Lance said. Mr. Lance only reported

what he was told. I don't see how that makes me an authority.

IMHO Refai could be CIA, creating the legend of the radical Islamist
terrorists, or he could be an al Qaeda mole collecting information,
or he could be both.

Hope that obvious analysis is useful to you.

[LARED]

26. What I find extraordinary is you

seemingly believe radical Islamists terrorist are legends? Created by the CIA

Did I read that correctly?

[John Q. Citizen]

27. Just like the fabled #2 who keeps getting killed or captured in Iraq. Did you

read that correctly?

[LARED]

28. Maybe it 's me, but what does

fabled #2 mean?

[petgoat]

29. The #2 al Qaeda man in Iraq keeps getting killed. They killed

al Zaqawi about five times before they actually
produced a body.

[LARED]

32. So what? (n/t)

[petgoat]

30. I try to avoid "beliefs".

There seem to be many connections between the CIA and al Qaeda.

Funding, visas, meeting Osama in Dubai in 7/01, failure of
the CIA to kill Osama after Clinton ordered it done.

[LARED]

31. People who believe nothing will believe anything.

OK you avoid beliefs. I done really believe you, but I'll take your word on it.

Do you have an opinion as to if the radical Islamist terrorist is real or a CIA created legend?

[petgoat]

33. What's wrong with both? nt

[LARED]

35. Nothing wrong with both, .

Why the CIA would create a radical Jihadist legend is a little unclear, but it's possible.

Does that mean you are of the opinion radical Islamic terrorist are real?

[mrgerbik]

36. hate to bust in here

but looking at a complex situation invloving many egos and many motivations isn't best suited to a black or white answer...

its probably somewhat best to try and answer these things by viewing it as something in the middle of both extremes

[LARED]

37. It was a simple question

Does PG believe radical Isalmic terrorist are legends created by the CIA?

That's not a complex question or issue. Why he/she avoids any kind of response is quite revealing.

[John Q. Citizen]

38. Sure, the CIA is going to attempt to manipulate opinion on lots of differenent

people. Do you believe that Islamic Terrorists are somehow exempt?

[LARED]

39. No, it just seems to my that PG 'believes'

radical Islamist terrorist would not exist outside of a CIA creation?

I am trying to confirm if that is true.

[petgoat]

40. A lot of silly things seem to you.

You've never seen one of those old comedy skits where somebody dresses
up like a ghost to scare people, and then finds there's a real ghost?

You've never heard of the protection racket?

There were a lot of connections between the CIA/FBI and al Qaeda.

Look at Ali Mohammed. Look at the FBI informant in San Diego who found
housing for two of the alleged 9/11 hijackers.

I don't think the CIA is behind every suicide bomber in the world.

[LARED]

41. It's encouraging that you

don't think the CIA is behind every suicide bomber in the world.I was beginning to wonder.

So how many suicide bombers do you think are CIA sponsored? How many are driven by radical Islamists?

[petgoat]

42. I have no basis for an opinion. Do you think that CIA-sponsored

and radical Islamist are mutually exclusive?

[mirandapriestly]

23. "the tunnels"? like they're going to

blast through all that bedrock and stuff? in one of the most busy traffic areas in the world? I just don't take any of this stuff seriously.

[dailykoff]

24. Her letter is pretty unspecific.

It's mostly about piles of untranslated warnings about a terror strike in a major American city using airplanes. No specific WTC references that I could find (it's a 9-page pdf).

Anyway, the towers didn't have sweet spots, the planning to take them down took several years (installing the elevator door locks, etc.), and I doubt that Osama had even a minor hand in it.

[Contrite]

43. Dov Zakheim of Booz Allen Hamilton

http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1047.shtml

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_international&Number=295074558&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&part=

I think this shows who needed and had access to blueprints. And furthermore, Dov Zakheim is not only a principal in PNAC, but former Pentagon comptroller under Reagan and also VP of Booz Allen Hamilton, headquartered in Chicago.

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_international&Number=295074558&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&part=

More about Booz Allen Hamilton in this post (cross-linking).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=254265&mesg_id=254265

More on James Woolsey (now VP at Booz Allen Hamilton) and 9/11

http://911review.org/Sept11Wiki/Watson,Dale.shtml

More on Booz Allen Hamilton and 9/11:

http://justanotherblowback.blogspot.com/2006/10/911-revolution-in-military-affairs.html