9/11 Hijackers On Airport Surveillance Tape

[Bolo Boffin]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3489-2004Jul21.html?referrer=email

WASHINGTON - Surveillance video from Washington Dulles International Airport the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, shows four of the five hijackers being pulled aside to undergo additional scrutiny after setting off metal detectors but then permitted to board the fateful flight that crashed into the Pentagon.

The video shows an airport screener hand-checking the baggage of one hijacker, Nawaf al-Hazmi, for traces of explosives before letting him continue onto American Airlines Flight 77 with his brother, Salem, a fellow hijacker.

The disclosure of the video comes one day before the release of the final report by the Sept. 11 commission, which is expected to include a detailed accounting of the events that day.

The evidence continues to pile up.

[RandomKoolzip]

1. LIHOP.

LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP.LIHOP........

[Ameridansk]

2. After checking with their handlers at Bush Center for Intelligence. . .

the guys are headed to their next assignment. Proof of nothing.

It doesn't change the fact that we have a video showing a missile being fired into the Pentagon, and photos that prove the missile penenetrated several rings (as you would expect). Of course plane made od aluminum would never be able to do the same.

The release of this video is a strong clue that the next staged "attack" is coming soon (after 3 years of complete inactivity). They need "momentum" in defending themselves against the accusations that are sure to follow.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

3. MIHOP

"The surveillance video, obtained by The Associated Press, shows an airport screener hand-checking the carryon baggage of one hijacker, Nawaf al-Hazmi, for traces of explosives before letting him continue onto American Airlines Flight 77 with his brother, Salem, a fellow hijacker."

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-attacks-surveillance-video,0,6869131.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

However....

"The Telegraph obtained the first interviews with the men since they learnt that they were on the FBI's list of hijackers who died in the crashes in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.

All four said that they were "outraged" to be identified as terrorists. One has never been to America and another is a Saudi Airlines pilot who was on a training course in Tunisia at the time of the attacks.

The other two men accused of being terrorists are Salem Al-Hamzi and Ahmed Al-Nami. Mr Al-Hamzi is 26 and had just returned to work at a petrochemical complex in the industrial eastern city of Yanbou after a holiday in Saudi Arabia when the hijackers struck. He was accused of hijacking the American Airlines Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon.

"He said: "I have never been to the United States and have not been out of Saudi Arabia in the past two years." The FBI described him as 21 and said that his possible residences were Fort Lee or Wayne, both in New Jersey.""

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml

"The video shows hijackers Khalid al-Mihdhar and Majed Moqed, each dressed conservatively in slacks and collared shirts, setting off metal-detectors as they pass through security."

hovever...

"there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar, may also be alive.

FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged on Thursday that the identity of several of the suicide hijackers is in doubt."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

Who is the real Khalid Al Midhar?

This guy


Or this guy?


Or none of the above

[tngledwebb]

5. MIHOP

There's LIHOP, MIHOP and never forget WSIOT -We saw it on TV! Odd timing on this video, wonder where IT'S been the past few years, maybe there are some other CCTV videos somewhere? I would think so, since I count only a few - about two from airport check-ins,one from Pentagon service station. (Is that any way to run an Airline, or a Defense Dept?) Also, would it not be easy to fake this kind of thing, if needed? And even if it is 'real' what is this supposed to mean to the general public? What's it supposed to prove? I really couldn't say myself, but I'll wager somebody has thought this through to the next stage in great detail.

[Ameridansk]

7. Momentum is my thought on the timing of it.

So much of the story of 9/11 has been questioned over the last 3 years that those resposible are not as confident going into the next one. They are afraid to many people are going to be watching skeptically. So Larry Silverstein's buddies at the CIA, FBI, Mossad, Pentagon, etc. want to "remind" people of the "reality" of their story before they try to pull off the next one that will propell America into our next target in the War for Oil.

[Abe Linkman]

4. "Hijackers" were Patsies --- And MOST people HERE know it.

IF 15 of the alleged 19 were Saudi,
THEN:

* How often have you heard of Saudis blowing themselves up?

* Most were educated middle class. How often have you heard of educated , middle class Saudis KNOWINGLY participating in terrorist activities?

* How often have you heard of fanatical Muslims living the kind of wine, women, and drugs lifestyle that gw bush is well-known for?

Doesn't common sense tell you that the alleged hijackers were far more likely to be Patsies? And, that the Official Conspiracy Theory is a lie to cover up for an obvious MIHOP operation? History repeats itself.

Why do some people come here to DU & try to convince us that the lies told by the lying liars in the WH aren't lies? What would motivate someone to do that...ANONYMOUSLY? Why would THEY need to fear exposure?

[Ameridansk]

6. Why do you figure we see this now?

I've commented many times on the fact that no surveillance cameras showed any hijackers (other than the ones in PORTLAND MAINE) going through security, and that the names of the hijackers were not on any flight manifests.

Why do we only see this video, 3 years after the fact? Why now? Why only from Dulles (CIA and Pentagon neighborhood)? What about Newark and Boston?

Why do they look so calm when they are getting checked? Why are those knives not found or ignored? If their weapons were taken, what would have happened?

Ever since the first week after September 11th, I have told everyone that you would not see another "terrorist attack" in America until late 2004, if ever.

Of course the government and media said the opposite. They said there were hundreds if not thousands of "sleeper agents" just waiting for orders.

Don't these people hate America? Why would they want to live so long here without doing anything when America is slaughtering so many innocent Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq? Why would they wait
if they are willing to die in the fight against the Great Satan (while living so inconspicuously in his belly)? How much planning does a "trained" terrorist need for a suicide bombing?

Whoops, started ranting. Question is, why now? And who do you think released the tape?

[objection]

34. Why do you figure

that there is any kind of reason to any of it?

By which mechanism would some kind of super intelligence exert such a total control? As compared to the 1930s or even the 1960s the channels of communication are far too complex for anybody to hope to gain that sort of control. The problem is rather the opposite, the system aquires a life of its own. At any given time nobody knows what the hell is going on anywhere, let alone everywhere.

[seatnineb]

8. A Hijacker's who's who?

So they tell us that this guy is supposed to be the 7000ft descent specialist Hani Hanjour.............



But the truth is that the chap in the above photograph looks more like this guy(Hamza Al-Ghamdi from Flight 175).........


Who himself had a mutating face......


This is what they say Hani used to look like........



Or like this............



But no way(in my opinion) is he the guy in the first photograph.

[Woody Box]

9. Another objection

The famous memo with the shot on Daniel Lewin deals also with flight 77:



Number of selected passengers is unknown at this time; ramp personnel noticed two selectee checked bags on the ramp. One non-selectee passenger did not board due to confusion of gate location.

Alarm? What alarm?

This memo doesn't harmonize with the new video at all.

But I'm pleased to hear that boloboffin turns LIHOP. That's a start.

[Abe Linkman]

10. FL 77 is "presumed" to have crashed -- according to the report

Interesting that it says FL 77 is "presumed" to have crashed into the Pentagon.

[Bolo Boffin]

13. On the evening of Sept. 11, 2001, it was "presumed"

Later evidence bore out that presumption.

Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon.

[Abe Linkman]

15. More likely that language was an inoculation for people like you...

to use if and when the public becomes aware that FL 77 certainly didn't crash into the Pentagon.

If you want to make a "sale" of the fairy tale you're promoting, then show us a 757 that has an engine like the one found at the Pentagon.
As you well know, engines on 757s are THREE times the size of the small jet engine found at the Pentagon. If FL 77 had crashed into the Pentagon, the FEMA photographer would have captured photos of TWO 757 engines, not the small one that appears to be from a fighter jet.

The storyline in the report is simply to provide wiggle room so that when it's left to people like you to break the awful news to the public in a way that will be acceptable, you can point to that very language and say "see, it was only a presumption. we had all those eyewitnesses telling us they saw THE PLANE, and the parking lot video was obviously doctored---and yes, whoever did it is going to pay - BIG time blah, blah
blah".

[Bolo Boffin]

16. Go tell it to Hiroo Onoda, Abe

If you want to make a "sale" of the fairy tale you're promoting, then show us a 757 that has an engine like the one found at the Pentagon.

We have seen parts of an engine but not a whole engine. The parts of the engine are from a 757 engine. Your stubborn refusal to acknowledge this is sophistry at its most desperate.

Parts of the engine, Abe, not the whole engine.

Parts of the engine.

Parts of the engine.

Parts of the engine.

Have you gotten that yet? Not a whole engine - parts of an engine.

We've seen the pictures of the parts, and pictures of the parts of a 757 engine. The pieces match. The engine was from a 757.

PS: Hey, Abe, they're doing a musical version of Monty Python and the Holy Grail on Broadway. If you hurry, you could still audition for the Black Knight. They'd be lucky to get you...

[Abe Linkman]

17. What we have seen is NOT a 757 engine.

You know that's the truth, and you know that you can openly label people here as CT and you can question the integrity of authors who dispute the 9-11 lies you support, and you know that no one can question YOUR motives, background, or your identity.

The one thing you can't do is provide a photograph of a 757 with an engine like the one found at the Pentagon. That's because a 757 didn't crash at the Pentagon, and the evidence proves it. If you are claiming that FL 77 crashed at the Pentagon, then you are claiming something that the evidence proves couldn't have happened. It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that you are knowingly saying something you know is false.

The essence of lying is deception, and by saying the photo only shows parts of an engine, you aren't exonerated. The parts of the engine shown are way too small to be from a 757, and you know it.

Don't worry, though. There will still be plenty of work for you to do
once the public learns that the Official Conspiracy Theory is a total lie. For a long time now and, sorry to say, for a long time to come we will be governed largely via propaganda and disinformation. About the only threat is outsourcing. From Washington to ____ or somewhere else.

[Bolo Boffin]

18. Correct: they are parts from a 757.

The pictures have been posted, the schematic from the 757 engine has been posted, and the parts match.

If you are claiming that FL 77 crashed at the Pentagon, then you are claiming something that the evidence proves couldn't have happened. It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that you are knowingly saying something you know is false.

Glass houses, Mr. Linkman.

And call your agent: Spamalot is casting!

http://www.playbill.com/news/article/84680.html

Although I hear that Hank Azaria is doing Lancelot, which means he'll be the Black Knight. Such a pity. Perhaps you can be his acting coach for that particular bit...

[MercutioATC]

20. Bolo, you've accomplished the impossible... :)

You got him to talk about the parts instead of the whole engine!

"The parts of the engine shown are way too small to be from a 757, and you know it."

Who knows how long before the subject changes again, but you managed to to what I couldn't...


:headbang:

[Bolo Boffin]

21. I think it was my repeating "Parts of an engine" seven times.

I expect that in four or five months, Abe will revert to saying "engine" again, and the whole process will start again.

Remember, Abe, it's PARTS of an engine that were found, and those PARTS match the SCHEMATIC DRAWING of a 757 engine. You can rail like Lear against the serpent's tooth of the facts, but the facts they will remain.

Parts of a 757 engine.

Parts of a 757 engine.

Parts of a 757 engine.

[MercutioATC]

22. I'll remember that...seven is the magic number.

I still have to hand it to you...I thought it couldn't be done...

[Abe Linkman]

24. Repeat: Your side cannot produce even 1 photo of a 757 w/that engine

757 engines are three times the size of the one found at the Pentagon.

Remember, boloboy -- If it was from a 757, you'd be able to provide a photo of a 757 with a similar engine. Unless you're talking about a miniature 757, then you aren't talking about what crashed at the Pentagon.

Are you talking about a minature 757, bolo?

[vincent_vega_lives]

42. How bout here...

combustion chamber housing


Engine compressor or turbine disc


RB-211 overview, combustion chamber housing and high-pressure compressor disc

http://www.aa.com/content/aboutAA/ourPlanes/boeing757.jhtml
Number of Engines 2
Engine Type RB211-535E4B / PW2037
Engine Manufacturer Rolls-Royce / Pratt & Whitney

[DulceDecorum]

50. Size matters

http://911review.org/Wiki/PentagonPlaneRotor.shtml

N644AA (sometimes called Flight 77)
has Rolls Royce Engines.
Model: RB211-535E4B

Compare this




To THIS.

[vincent_vega_lives]

52. No comparison

Note this...


The part in the picture is labled 45/46 and is the compressor disc. The Fan, above, is much larger. Note the schematic in the upper left corner. Those two guys are standing in front of the intake, where the cone is.

So yes size does matter.

[carlvs]

57. Who to believe...

Interesting tactics in use here:

To prove his point, one person shows us the parts in question and then provides a scematic showing their relation to the overall jet engine.O8)

The other person gives us a promational picture...:dunce:

From this it is quite clear who is telling the truth, and who deserves to be in my "ignore" list

[DulceDecorum]

65. I have long wondered

what happened to rest of the engine.
Wherdy go?
And why didn't the tree go along for the ride?

What the heck happened when the fire department poured all that water on it?
Who can explain this to us?



P.S.
carlvs
Please do not hesitate to use the ignore function.
It is that little snoozy button on the top right of every post.
And do take the time to read the rules of the Democratic Underground.
Ta.

[MercutioATC]

66. Now THAT'S a good question!

Misrepresenting the issue by showing a front-view picture of a complete engine when what's pictured are parts from a completely different part of the engine is misleading.

Asking what happened to the rest of the engine makes sense.

[k-robjoe]

31. Mercutio

I stopped reading your "feud" with Abe months ago. Seems to me like you have gone "nutters" over this guy. It goes on and on and on, like a datavirus, and if I happen to read a post or two, like I did on this thread ( as it was a good thread up til now ), it seems like there´s nothing happening. What´s the point? To burry this whole discussionboard in mud?

[objection]

32. What´s the point?

Seems to me that the question is the point. The only interest in responding to anything so extraordinarily tedious is to work out if anybody possibly can be so incredibly brainless, or is it some kind of elaborate joke?

I was intrigued but soon enough it is clear that the nonsense goes nowhere but deeper into the mud.

[MercutioATC]

40. I do see your point. It's going absolutely nowhere.

My primary concern was that people new to the forum would just see one side of the argument (the CT side). I'd rather not go into specifics (because that would kind of defeat the method) but I believe I've come up with a more intelligent way to address the "back and forth" stuff.

[Abe Linkman]

44. One thing that sure didn't go nowhere inside the Pentagon was FL 77

And that magical "force field of flying debris" sure didn't go thru the wall and create that great big nine foot circular hole in it, either.

The Cavemen CT supporters can try all they wish, but they have yet to convert even one person. People are more likely to be converted into skeptics of the Cavemen theory, rather than the other way round.

Knowledge, logic, and common sense have a way of ferreting out truth from the BS, PR, and disinformation disseminated by Crisis Communications Consultants and propagandists.

[MercutioATC]

46. Abe, this doesn't belong in this thread and you've already read my reply.

"Some observers have claimed that these engine parts are too small to have come from a 757. The confusion is because the RB-211 engine configuration is dominated by the large turbofan at the front of the engine, which is what people expect a 757 engine should look like. However, because the RB-211 is a "high bypass" engine, the high-pressure compressor, combustion chamber and turbine are all much smaller than the turbofan, as shown in the small overview figure at the top left of the drawing. It is perfectly reasonable to ask what happened to the turbofan -- but the compressor disk and the combustor case do look like 757 parts."

http://www.911-strike.com/engines.htm

This is the ONE reply you'll receive on this thread unless you decide to start addressing issues. I'm not going to participate in turning another thread into some senseless back-and-forth argument when you won't respond to facts.

[Abe Linkman]

51. This is the kind of tactic I've seen right-wingnuts use

I'm not saying you're a right-wingnut, but it is curious that you are using a standard tactic of theirs. What I'm talking about, of course, is the repeated posting of a link whenever you can't answer a question.
Very curious. bolo has said that he posts on other sites, using the same User Name. You, too?

[Abe Linkman]

23. FEMA photos of rotor & housing are way too small to be from a 757

Have you seen these photos of the engine parts found at the Pentagon?
The parts are about one-third the size of what they would be if they were from a 757.

You can CLAIM anything you want, but the truth is the photos prove a 757 didn't crash at the Pentagon.


http://www.911review.org/Wiki/PentagonPlaneRotor.shtml

[objection]

33. Who said

that this "rotor" is an engine part?

Does anybody have a FEMA link to that effect?

If not then let it be seen for what it is, a completely bogus issue.

[vincent_vega_lives]

41. Actually not at all

If you just did a little research you would find you are wrong.

[MercutioATC]

19. Why do you say the PARTS are too small?

1) PARTS

2) PARTS

3) PARTS

4) PARTS

5) PARTS

6) PARTS

7) PARTS

At least we've progressed to talking about parts instead of whole engines. Yes, the main turbofan would be much bigger, but the high-pressure rotor and housing are the right size:

"Some observers have claimed that these engine parts are too small to have come from a 757. The confusion is because the RB-211 engine configuration is dominated by the large turbofan at the front of the engine, which is what people expect a 757 engine should look like. However, because the RB-211 is a "high bypass" engine, the high-pressure compressor, combustion chamber and turbine are all much smaller than the turbofan, as shown in the small overview figure at the top left of the drawing. It is perfectly reasonable to ask what happened to the turbofan -- but the compressor disk and the combustor case do look like 757 parts."

http://www.911-strike.com/engines.htm

If you have anything that would contradict this, please share.

[seatnineb]

11. To Alarm Or Not To Alarm..........

Woody my friend..........

One begins to wonder how many Hani Hanjours there were in Dulles Airport on 9/11.............

Because we know that this Hani...........



Managed to do the following.................

"Only Hani Hanjour, believed to have been the hijacker who piloted Flight 77, passed through Dulles security that morning WITHOUT BEING SUBJECTED TO A SECONDARY SECURITY CHECK, according to the video."
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20040722/D83VUFI00.html

But an altogether different experience occurred to what I assume was this Hani........



"This person goes through the metal detection machine and IT STARTS BUZZING........."
"THEY CALL THE PERSON OUT SO THEY CAN DO THE HAND SEARCH.Just as the person was BEGINNING to do that, a pretty woman walks by and the guard looks at her and waves the guy on.Well,that person happened to be Hani Hanjour,and he basically had box cutters and razor blades in his pockets."
This is the testimony of Vincent Cannistraro(Ex-C.I.A).

The above excerpt can be found in:
Masterminds Of Terror.
By Nick Fielding And Yosri Fouda.
Published By Mainstream Publishing.
Page 143.

I wonder if Bolo could find this pretty girl in the video?

[k-robjoe]

12. Was Hanjour added to the list later on?

" We have no explanation for how the FBI came up with the names of all 19 (initially 18, but they added Hani Hanjour to Flight 77 so there would be a half-plausible pilot on board) hijackers within two days." http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/XYM306A.html

Google search for "18 hijackers" came up with ( for example ) this :

"CBC News - All 18 hijackers had plane tickets: FBI

All 18 hijackers had plane tickets: FBI Last Updated Fri Sep 14 11:51:33 2001"

http://www.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2001/09/13/ashcroft_010913

[objection]

35. Maybe he was.

So what?

The explanation for how the supects were identified is obvious. They were all connected, e.g. by records of purchases and their previous whereabouts.

Never once did we see an explantion for their 9/11 activities in terms of ordinary innocent business. If they were not hijacking, what exactly were they up to?

[k-robjoe]

48. Well

If it is OK with you, I´m trying to make sense out of this. First I read that he was added to the list a few days later, and thought, that doesn´t make sense, it seems like they are making things up. Then I read that he didn´t have a ticket, and thought, OK, so that´s why he was added to the list later, but it still doesn´t make sense, because how could he get on the plane without a ticket, seems like they are making up an excuse to explain why he was added later. Now I read that he actually did have a ticket, and was captured on tape going through security, but the guy on the surveillance tape doesn´t look anything like the Hani Hanjour we have seen photos of.

But if you can swallow this all, without OBJECTION, feel free...

> " Never once did we see an explantion for their 9/11 activities in terms of ordinary innocent business. "

They were not into ordinary innocent business :

"Mohamed Atta’s ability to roam at will across America—despite having his name on the CIA’s terrorist watch list—was not due to official incompetence or bureaucratic snafu, but to Atta’s status as a good earner, in a lucrative drug trafficking operation which linked Osama bin Laden’s thugs and drug lieutenants to their equally-thuggish American counterparts."

http://www.madcowprod.com/mc6312004.html

( This is Hopsickers latest piece. You would need to read up on his previous articles to get the right impression of what he has got, backing up his claims. )

What exactly these guys were told/paid to do, on 911, what they were told was going to happen, I don´t know. I don´t know how many of them actually were on the planes either. ( All we have got is this one tape.)

[objection]

54. trying to make sense

So why does anything seem like an "excuse"?
How and why is a cash payment for a flight ticket going to be faked?
If that's to be faked why not fake it up front, from the start?
Is a thrill seeking drug trafficker less to be suspected of a hijacking stunt?
You're making no sense at all.

[k-robjoe]

55. "So why"

> "So why does anything seem like an "excuse"?"

It would take take too long to list up all the pieces in the puzzle, and this is the kind of question that would need such an answer.
( To answer that they would have had his name on the list, and he had allready been in the searchlight of the intelligence agencies, so it doesn´t make sense that they would need a couple of days more to get him on the list, doesn´t feel sufficiant. )


> "How and why is a cash payment for a flight ticket going to be faked?"

This is really "peanuts". Even the longtime "debunkers" on this site know that something like this is peanuts. ( Which is maybe one of the reasons they are not as rash as you with labeling people "braindead". )

>"If that's to be faked why not fake it up front, from the start?"

Seems to me that the people organizing the coverup are not the same people that organized 911. The people organizing the coverup ( most of them ) may not know more than this : We don´t know who did it, but it is needed to pin it on Bin Laden. ( Or they even think they know : We know it was Bin Laden, but we haven´t the evidence, so we need to fabricate. )

> "Is a thrill seeking drug trafficker less to be suspected of a hijacking stunt?"

You should try reading some more of Hopsicker. ( I´m positive about having "debunkers" here, but I really prefer the ones that have read some pages, and have some idea about what has been dug up. )

( A bad answer. And not the time to make a good one. Your questions sort of beg for a full introduction, and I can´t help asking myself, why should I be doing this, when it seems like this guy is only here to practice his abusiveness.)

[objection]

56. You're making no sense.

I was looking for a case, something that stands up to examination.
So what have you got?
What would a jury make of it?
What has pinning anything on Hanjour got to do with Bin Laden?
What is the connection to Bin Laden supposed to be? If that's the idea why not plant something directly to that effect?
There was no previous "searchlight" on Hanjour that I'd yet heard of.
According to ABC the "FBI Never Saw Hijacker as Threat".
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/FBI_informant020523.html

What would the introduction of false evidence cover up? Why take the risk? If Hanjour was not present as alleged where is he now?


Hanjour was real. He had a ticket. The autopsy detected the remains of the four suspects.

The purchase of the flight ticket involved a bank, the selling agent and the airline, strong admissible evidence. You seriously think that it's just peanuts to falsify that? You seriously think that the proposition is not abusive to those involved?

You seem to know more about what I've read than I do. The CVs of the suspects is curious in a romantic sort of way but what does it prove in terms of the events of 9/11? Maybe some of them were mixed up with CIA undercover ops or drug trafficking. So what? You'd still be miles away from connecting the 9/11 destructions to any strategic intention, if that is supposed to be the gist.

[k-robjoe]

58. > "There was no previous "searchlight"

> "There was no previous "searchlight"on Hanjour that I'd yet heard of."

There is a controversy as to what degree he had been in the searchlight. ( I don´t know if there is any controversy about the FBI being aware of him. )

"On May 23, 2002, ABCNews.com pubished John McWethy's article, "FBI Was Warned of Sept. 11 Hijacker," the story of Phoenix, Arizona FBI informant Aukai Collins, and author of My Jihad. Collins established a strong relationship with Hani Hanjour while Hanjour was taking flying lessons. He claims he told the FBI all about Hanjour. "The FBI knew Hanjour lived in Phoenix ... knew his exact address, his phone number ... even what car he drove." Though the FBI denied Collins' claim, ABCNews.com sides with Collins. "The FBI either failed to monitor Hanjour's communications, or Hanjour practiced extraordinary skills in hiding his intention - because the FBI never regarded him as a threat." "

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MCC309A.html

> " What has pinning anything on Hanjour got to do with Bin Laden?"

I´m sorry, but I don´t think there is any chance of reaching any minimum of understanding that makes a dialogue worth while.
( It´s depressing to try to explain, when it becomes like this. )

[Bolo Boffin]

14. boloboffin turns LIHOP?

Where in hades did you get that from? Stop putting words in my mouth, Mr. Box.

[democraticinsurgent]

25. video release may simply be cover for report

i'm a MIHOP guy. But i'm not convinced that we are going to see another attack before November. Too much downside for *.

The release of the video? How convenient. To me it simply signals an attempt by the commission to close ranks and provide a morsel or two of new evidence to bolster the very much sagging caveman conspiracy theory.

i know that the pentagon plane thing is bizarre and provokes great debate here as well as other places.

i have gotten to the point where i am not hung on the forensics of the case. * has stonewalled us to the point that we are all squabbling about pieces of the theory because there isn't enough evidence for one viewpoint to convince the other.

Instead: i just sit with the following facts and happily reach MIHOP without having to worry about pods, missing planes, etc:

1. Sibel Edmonds
2. The Pet Goat, starring *
3. The ISI, $100,000 to Mohammed Atta and the head of ISI being in DC before during and after 9-11.
4. The mysterious glue that stuck on the asses of Rumsfeld, Myers and Cheney during the attacks, preventing them from making any moves until the 4th plane was down (I am digging the theory that all 4 were supposed to be simultaneous but various delays kept the principals in torturous suspense until it was over)
5. The breadth and the intensity of the coverup by * and *co, to the point of obvious perjury at 9-11 commission by Condi, Tenet and Ashcroft
6. Hopsicker's incredible reporting on Florida, Atta as a cokehead playboy, and Florida flight schools run by the CIA as part of their drug operation
7. The Saudi airlift
8. The Fat Osama tape (obviously fake and who would have made it if it weren't *)
9. FEMA's convenient appearance at WTC on 9-10, and the even more convenient NORAD exercises that tied up air defenses ("Is this part of the exercise, or is this real" asked the air traffic controller)
10. Bush 41's meeting with the Saudi's on 9-11 and the subsequent * and Bandar cigar party on 9-13 (celebration?)

Ok, i'll stop at 10. but there is so much more...forget the planes and the passenger lists and WTC demolition. Just look at the coverup and the leaks in the coverup that are sprouting like crazy.

Somebody call a plumber.

[Abe Linkman]

26. Well said. Cavemen supporters can't possibly win if logic is considered

You are, of course 100% right. It has been pointed out here on many occasions that if you allow the issues to become technical, they can ALWAYS and very quickly produce an "expert" to give a counter opinion to any technical aspect that shows the Official Conspiracy Theory is a complete and total lie.

If it's pointed out that two engines should have been found, they change the subject so the focus is put on some piece of material that can arguably have come from any airplane.

If it's pointed out that Ted Olson lied about the bogus phone calls he says he got from his "wife" Barbara, from FL 77 --- they change the issue so it becomes whether or not cell phone calls can be made from an airliner.

It ought to tell you something whenever the Cavemen supporters pooh-pooh the use of common sense and reason. Their preferred methods are just the opposite: Disinformation and propaganda disguised as "just want to set the record straight" don't you know.

[democraticinsurgent]

27. thanks for that...i like looking at the technical stuff too

there are very logical and compelling arguments for:

- controlled WTC demolition (thank you Melvin Bush)
- a non-757 at the Pentagon (attention Pentagon, please release the videotape)
- possible remote control of planes due to superhuman maneuvering required, especially at Pentagon
- Flight 93 shot down (attention CBS: please interview the North Dakota pilot)
- bogus cell phone calls
- confused identity of hijackers
- etc.

i drank the koolaid recently, around january of this year (yumm!). prior to that, i was just suspicious and confused. I actually credit the 9-11 commission for clueing me in. Well, not the commission exactly, but the Jersey Girls complaints about their lack of investigatory prowess.

Anyway, i read everything i can read about this. I still stop in at phil jayhan's site despite finding his ideas a bit far out. he's good for entertainment if nothing else.

but recently i just decided to focus on the coverup. there's enough there to put the entire administration behind bars. My dream is that Kerry wins, a criminal investigation ensues, and in that process we really find out what happened with the above.

I am also advancing this: that MIHOP and LIHOP may be basically the same thing. If you drive the getaway car, you're just as guilty as if you pulled the trigger.

[Abe Linkman]

28. Right, again. Some of us have always said there's no such thing as LIHOP

Here's the typical Cavemen supporter logic:

IF:

Fl 77 crashed at the Pentagon, there should be two engines found.
Only one was found. Where's the other one?
They'll say (at various) times -- the other was destroyed in the crash, or it burned up.

In the same breath, they claim:
Passenger/crew remains were recovered AT the Pentagon (fireproof DNA?)

Exit hole was made by the destroyed airplane, or a magic force of stuff flyig through the Pentagon (in a nine foot round formation), or the second engine made the hole.

Yet,
Outside the big exit hole, there's nothing large enough to have made it.
Wherdy go? (they'll say it was all of that "stuff" flying thru the building...and that debris outside isn't JUST building material, it is also the "stuff" that made the big hole)

See? Makes good sense, eh what? Sure, if you're a monkey. Or, a "Cave men Did It" supporter. Those evildoer cavemen got the power!

Anything else you need cleared up?!

[democraticinsurgent]

29. enjoy your posts, Abe

i've been reading a lot of your 9-11 posts for awhile now.

Glad to get to know you a bit.

I know the most important thing is to get Kerry elected right now, but I'm determined to help get the 9-11 truth out.

This will not be like 1963. We have the internet. We have most of the facts. And we are growing in numbers. They will not be able to knock off a handful of key witnesses this time and get away with it.

As far as I'm concerned, today is the first day of the real 9-11 investigation. We have a unique opportunity to completely discredit our government. And we must do it. We must succeed.

Why?

Because they hate us for our freedom.

[objection]

38. No kidding?

Get real.

It is now 1046 days since 9/11, since when a mini industry of conspiracy theory searches for truth has been simmering away, IMHO 99 per cent of it extraordinarily ignorant, superficial, indulgently romantic garbage serving mainly in effect to muddy the waters, to consumately discredit by association the one per cent that may stand up to a proper cross examination.

Not once did I see anything enough to make a crminal case of in terms of LIHOP, MIHOP or WTF.

If indeed it ever got close to a criminal charge, do you think that your supposed culprits of World Domination would just sit back and let it happen?

[Abe Linkman]

39. Thanks, but as you can see, "they" aren't taking ANY chances.

The government has contracts (NO, bolo - I DON'T have copies of them, but thanks for asking) with PR firms like Hill & Knowlton (of Kuwaiti incubators fame) and PR/Disinformation outfits like The Rendon Group ("psst -- hey, Buddy -- wanna buy a War? no, no - only the minorities will have to actually go over there").

I think the famous H.L.Mencken quote is very applicable: "The public always prefers nonsense to sense" -- so, I'm not as optimistic as you are about the public at large getting "hip" to the truth about 9-11.
It's taken almost 60 years for the truth about Pearl Harbor to get out, and most of the public doesn't have a clue about that nor any of the other government conspiracies of the past 100 years ("Remember The Maine", Gulf of Tonkin, JFK and so many more).

The media are "stenographers" to power and precious few so-called liberal or progressive media will even touch issues such as 9-11. They're either too cowed or else they get money from foundations that are closely aligned with the intelligence community (Ford Foundation, e.g.).

And, as you well know, the Disinfo agents working the 9-11 account are very good at what they do...and us taxpayers are footing the bill!

Maybe a President Kerry will also want the truth to get out. Think so?

[democraticinsurgent]

45. who knows...

i am an optimist by nature. a tough time to be one, that's for sure.

i think you are absolutely right, unfortunately. the 9-11 whitewash report is just one of many examples.

the only hope i have is we folks in the electronic peanut gallery. this is something that the RW has never had to deal with. we don't rely upon advertising or grants (at least for the most part) and that makes us really dangerous.

Kerry? who knows. A bonesman, a brahmin, and likely part of the octopus. But: he did lead the Iran-Contra investigation, so we know that digging up truth is in his blood.

Question is, what will the big money interests allow him to do?

It would almost take a true revolution for a Kerry administration to do what so obviously needs to be done. I wouldn't bet the farm on it...

[airgames]

30. back to the video...

anyone notice that they were the only ones check by the screeners?
Ill have to check again to confirm, but it looked like it on first glance. Also, if you were about to hijack a plane, wouldnt you take your watch off, or even put the knife in the bag, as to NOT get the attention of the screeners? Did they think a leatherman wouldnt cause the blip at the gate?

I have the first video , which seems to have dissappeared, and is replaced by a differnt version. Its in real player, i cant save it as a file, or even email the link, cuse it goes back to the new video, but the old one still plays when i use the favorites.
you can try it from here...
this is the source properties from real player.
dont know if it will work or not.

http://play.rbn.com/?url=ap/dcwap/g2demand/0721dulles_video_SS.rm&proto=rtsp&mode=compact

pnm://a399.v0920e.c920.g.vr.akamaistream.net/ondemand/7/399/920/v0001/thepost.download.akamai.com/920/nation/072104-6v.rm

rtsp://a399.v0920e.c920.g.vr.akamaistream.net/ondemand/7/399/920/v0001/thepost.download.akamai.com/920/nation/072104-6v.rm


---------
Comment: A grainy video found three years later that backs up the 'hijacker's myth. Another desperate attempt to create some kind of background to the official version of events that will support it in light of massive amounts of evidence to the contrary. Khalid al-Mihdhar who is supposedly shown in this video has been proven to be still alive, along with several other named 'hijackers'. This is the same government that gave us the fatty bin Laden video with the wrong nose and had the nerve to broadcast it in Times Square!

http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/july2004/210704videoshows.htm

Brad

[tngledwebb]

37. the video

Re timing of video release: Of course, got to have a visual for TV to go along with release of 9/11 report. Can't use same old video, folks get bored.. Now people will say 'Hey did you see that new video of those hijackers? How they just snuck right thru? Boy that 9/11 commitee sure did some good work getting us a whole new hijacker video to look at! And really EVERYONE was to blame- Clinton, Bush, the CIA, FBI, even the Countess CaCa, nobody saw it coming! But let's not fire anybody, it was really MOST OF ALL a failure of 'imagination'. Yeah, that's it, and that's why we need these videos, our imaginations just don't work anymore. Now if they would just show us photos of that plane that crashed in the Pentagon, or some WMD's being snuck thru customs in Donald Rumsfelds's briefcase when he used to pal around with Saddam, we could wrap up all the loose ends and move on.

[objection]

36. "fireproof DNA?"

That's another disingenuously bogus issue, isn't it?

You don't have any reference to give to any official source to have claimed that the remains were all identified from DNA, do you?

As usual with similar disasters a large proportion of the human remains (I recall that it was about one third) were identified from dental records.

[Zynx]

43. Modern DNA testing is pretty sophisticated

As long as there is a scrap of person not entirely carbonized, you can get enough to do a match. There would have been much more left of bodies at the Pentagon than the WTC, because the Pentagon didn't smash flat in addition to being on fire.

Dental record identification is actually harder, since that sort of impact probably blew most of their skulls apart.

[objection]

47. 30 percent

Dental identifications were performed in more than 63 percent of the Pentagon cases.

In 30 percent this served as the sole method of identification, according to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology.

This was reported in a story by Craig Palmer for the American Dental Association, Oct. 19, 2001.

[DulceDecorum]

49. The FBI already had hijacker DNA

and the US military has claimed the same thing.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/02/27/hijackers.remains/
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/pentagon-unidentified.htm

So now the question is:
HOW did the US get that DNA
BEFORE the hijackers ever even hatched the plot?

Those diligent students
who would like to receive extra credit may answer the question:
HOW come many of the hijackers
(whose DNA is on record with the FBIS and US military)
are STILL alive?

Engineers,
Air traffic Control persons
and pilots of DC9s are encouraged to apply
themselves to answering or debunking
these claims of the FBI and US military.
Or their use of "hijacker" DNA.

[objection]

53. BEFORE?

What the hell are you talking about, "before" ... "already"?

[Abe Linkman]

59. Evidence that Official Conspiracy Theory is a lie, continues to pile up.

Thanks for posting evidence of the complicity of the security firm in the 9/11 self-attacks. Does the article note the name of the security firm and its major investors/owners?

Was the security contract a quid pro quo? (Highly profitable contract, in exchange for providing security for the 9/11 operation)

Yessiree, the evidence of an inside job DOES continue to pile up. Is there some quid pro quo reason why YOU won't acknowledge it?

[LARED]

60. complicity?

In what way does the article posted indicate the security firm was in on the so called Offical story conspriacy?

[Abe Linkman]

61. WPost article excerpts DON'T indicate THAT.

Osama doesn't own the security firm (to my knowledge...but that's also why I asked who DOES own it), and I don't think he had control over it in 2001.

You need more fiber in your diet.

[LARED]

62. Lets try that again

Abe stated

Thanks for posting evidence of the complicity of the security firm in the 9/11 self-attacks.

What evidence was posted?

[Not gullible]

63. Here is the evidence!

The surveillance video is not even filmed on 9/11...

Here is the proof:

http://joevialls.altermedia.info/wtc/clueless.html

[LARED]

64. Very funny

Joe Vialls and proof in the same sentence.

Once again Joe Vialls has provided wacky speculation, not proof.