The 9/11 Standdown Primer

[mhatrw]

http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2008/03/norad-stand-down-in-2-minutes.html

[hack89]

1. He needs to read (and understand) his own links.

Those intercepts were over water - the article even talks about how the ADIZs were all over water and were used to intercept and id aircraft approaching the US. There was a reason why pre-911 there were no ADIZs over land - there were no interceptions over land. I have constantly asked for a single instance of an over land interception - no one has been able to provide one. If it was so common then why is there no evidence of one?

From one of the links:

Ironically, Norad was doing its job: peering 300 kilometres out into the Air Defence Identification Zone encircling North America. Its task: to help assess, within two minutes, if each of the 7,000 incoming aircraft every day is friend or foe.

Changes to Norad defence strategy as a result of Sept. 11:

- Norad now monitors 40,000 daily flights, adding domestic flights to the 7,000 international flights it formerly tracked.

- Now 100 fighter jets stand on constant alert as opposed to 14 in North America prior to Sept. 11.

- About a dozen Norad mobile radars have been moved across the U.S. to expand the ability to monitor home skies.

The irony here is that his "proof" is an article that details how inadequate our air defenses were and how they have changed post 911

He also needs to understand the difference between top and tactical speed for F-15. With a standard load of external fuel tanks and weapons, a F-15 is not even supersonic - the weight and drag is too great. Secondly, a top speed dash with afterburners uses a tremendous amount of fuel - afterburners work by dumping raw fuel into the jet exhaust. The goal of the pilots was to get to NYC or DC without running out of gas. 500 knots is a typical speed for a tactically loaded fighter that gives the pilot a useful amount of time in the air.

[mhatrw]

2. What a complete load of shit.

The article doesn't talk about land intercepts because the contrast with 9/11 would be too stark.

An F-15 can fly from NYC to London at 500 knots. Firing the afterburners for a few minutes wouldn't have emptied the tank.

[Bolo Boffin]

5. "The article doesn't talk about land intercepts" because there's only Payne Stewart to deal with.

And that took an hour and a half WITH a transponder.

[mhatrw]

6. Prove that Payne Stewart was the only over land intercept

in the decade before 9/11.

[Bolo Boffin]

7. Show evidence of another. n/t

[mhatrw]

11. What scam artists OCTbots are.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=DCA00MA005&rpt=fa

[AZCat]

12. Your link doesn't work for me.

It asks me if I want to download an "asp" file. Could you please repost the link if you figure out what is wrong?

[Grateful for Hope]

13. Link is working for me.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=DCA00MA005&rpt=fa takes you right to the Aviation Report.

[AZCat]

18. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Obviously you've exposed a weakness in my NWO training. I guess it's re-education time for me again.

[mhatrw]

15. Your security settings are the problem, not the link. n/t

[AZCat]

17. I don't understand (sorta)

I'm not the most internet savvy person - could you tell me how to change them so I can view it?

On Edit: I'm using Firefox. Does that matter?

[Make7]

19. When it asks you to save the file...

... change the file name in the save dialog box from GenPDF.asp to Gen.PDF. That should save it as a PDF file and when it is double clicked, it will open with your default PDF viewer.

Alternatively you can just save the file with the default name and rename the saved file to add the PDF extension. Although if you have windows set up to hide file extentions, this may not be as easy as my first recommendation.

- Make7

[AZCat]

22. Thanks, Make7.

It opened fine when I changed the extension.

[hack89]

20. That is the the Payne Stewart report nt

[mhatrw]

23. Oh, really? So all of you have been lying about how long it took for Payne

Stewart's plane to be intercepted this whole time?

My God, OCTbots are such scam artists! Un-fucking-believable!

[Bolo Boffin]

24. Hanh?

As the report clearly indicates, it took about an hour and a half to get a plane to Stewart's jet. A hour and 18 minutes, to be more precise.

[mhatrw]

28. Yes, you are right. I was mistaken. I apologize.

I read the report times wrong. I should have known better. It's the second time that switching from EDT to CDT has gotten me.

Here are two more interception incidents:

http://www.asias.faa.gov/pls/portal/STAGE.AIDS_BRIEF_REPORT_PUB?EV_ID=19920815039479G

http://www.asias.faa.gov/pls/portal/STAGE.AIDS_BRIEF_REPORT_PUB?EV_ID=19901210064689G

It's difficult to search these incident reports and you can only search the extremely brief narrative descriptions. It doesn't look as if getting intercepted by a fighter jet was treated as any big deal by the FAA as you can see from these two incident reports.

[AZCat]

29. Neither of those two reports say anything...

about being intercepted by fighter jets. One was intercepted by a T-39 and the other it says was "intercepted by NORAD" (whatever that means).

[mhatrw]

33. Neither of them says much of anything about anything.

So it doesn't seem like an overland plane getting intercepted by military planes was any big deal.

[AZCat]

37. Nice goalpost move.

In post #28, it was "fighter jets", now it's "military planes". Typical bullshit truther move.

[gbwarming]

50. 80nm off "assigned track" actaully sounds like a north atlantic atc term

So that one is probably not over land.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Tracks

[mhatrw]

51. Right.

Every aircraft with a flight plan has an assigned track.

[Ghost in the Machine]

30. "I have constantly asked for a single instance of an over land interception....."

Both pilots and all four passengers, including professional golfer and 1999 U.S. Open winner Payne Stewart, were killed in the crash of a Lear 35 jet near Mina, SD on 25 October 1999. The jet, originally on a flight from Orlando to Dallas, strayed off course over northern Florida and continued flying to the northwest until the fuel apparently ran out.

U.S. Air Force pilots reported that the cockpit windows were obscured by frost. The conditions of the windows are consistent with a loss of pressurization and a subsequent rapid drop of temperature. It is likely that the pilots and occupants may have lost consciousness due to hypoxia, or a lack of oxygen. Between the last communication between the aircraft and air traffic control and the aircraft's final descent, the aircraft was reportedly flying as high as 45,000 feet.

http://www.airsafe.com/stewart.htm
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's one... will that work?

[hack89]

31. Payne Stewart actually undermines the stand down CT

So I am somewhat surprised you bring it up. If Payne Stewart is your standard then there is no need for a stand down CT to explain 911 – it also took a long time and was ad hoc in nature.

Central to the NORAD stand down CT are several notions:

- There are dedicated armed NORAD interceptors ready to take off on a moments notice.
- These interceptors are routinely launched within minutes of an airplane losing communications or wandering off course.
- These interceptions happen over land.

Now the lessons of the Payne Stewart interception are:

- There were no dedicated armed NORAD interceptors. Instead controllers had to locate and ask unarmed aircraft that were already airborne on routine training missions to take a look at Stewart’s Lear jet.
- It took one hour 18 minutes to intercept Stewart’s jet.

The Payne Stewart intercept reinforces my contention that the NORAD did not routinely intercept lost airplanes over America – the fact that NORAD interceptors were not even used is proof of that. The fact that it took so long is also proof of that. The Payne Stewart incident is shocking in how ad hoc the entire thing was – they were literally making it up as they went.

Now, can you show me where NORAD interceptors were used to quickly intercept a lost airplane over the US? I don’t think you can.

[Ghost in the Machine]

34. You asked for proof of ONE intercept over land. There it is. Nice game of "move the goal post"..

too bad I'm not playing your game with you... you're playing with yourself, as usual.....

Edited: I missed the EDT/CDT.. thanks bolo...

[Bolo Boffin]

35. EDT != CDT n/t

[Ghost in the Machine]

36. Thanks bolo, I totally missed that.. edited the reply.... n/t

[hack89]

46. Sorry - I just assumed that since we were discussing

the NORAD stand down CT, it was understood that I was looking for evidence that actually supported the CT. I will try to be clearer next time.

So where do we stand now - the only example you have seems to support the official story.

[Ghost in the Machine]

49. I'm not totally sure on this myself. I've read a little about the stand down/shoot down conflict...

but as I've stated before, I'm not really big on the conspiracy theories, nor am I a supporter of the official story. I don't think we've been told the complete truth about the events of 9-11, but I certainly don't buy the "no planes" and "directed energy beams" and all that garbage concerning the twin towers. I'm skeptical of the Pentagon hit, mostly due to the government's actions of confiscating all of the security camera tapes from surrounding businesses and not releasing anything from them to back up their story.

I have a few of my own thoughts and ideas about 9-11, but have nothing to back them up with. I'm not a researcher in any way, shape or form, and I sometimes have a problem articulating clearly what I'm thinking... it comes out more rambling, like my thoughts, than it does in a clear, concise manner. I'll be happy to share some of these thoughts with you, if you'd like to examine them and try to make some sense of them...

PEACE!

Ghost

[Sweet Pea]

3. Whoever writes that blog....

is an idiot and a moron, but I repeat myself.

I'd like to know what makes the Pentagon "one of the most heavily-defended buildings in the world". I worked there for 2 years and its defense, I have pointed out here said many times before, lies in its location, not in any sort of missile defense.

There was no standdown. There was the fog of uncertainty and not knowing what the hell was happening and the shock of the events of the day, but there was no standdown. Anyone who still believes that old canard is beyond help at this point.

[mhatrw]

4. "There was the fog of uncertainty and not knowing what the hell was happening"

"and the shock of the events of the day."

Yep. That explains everything!

That explains what Bush was doing on 9/11. That explains what Rumsfeld was doing on 9/11. That explains what General Myers was doing on 9/11. The explains what the FAA, NORAD, NEADS and the rest of the USAF were doing on 9/11.

That explains all the cell phone calls made from planes flying 500+ mph at 30,000+ feet. That explains Flight 93's debris field. That explains Flight 93's crash occurring three minutes before a documented, measured seismic event in the vicinity of Flight 93's crash site. The explains why there was no comprehensive NTSB investigations of the crashes of any of the flights.

The explains the aborted anthrax investigation. That explains why everybody in the Whitehouse went on Cipro days before the anthrax attacks.

That explains why multiple war games were occurring on 9/11. The explains why the FAA couldn't be bothered to contact the military about confirmed hijackings even after two planes had crashed in the WTC. The explains why turning off transponders makes planes invisible! That explains why publicly available Flight Explorer and FlyteComm software easily tracked the hijacked planes when the FAA and US military couldn't. The explains why no traces of the black boxes from the planes that crashed into the WTC towers were ever found.

The explains why 98% of all the WTC metal was shipped away and melted down before it could be investigated. The explains why NIST ignored the physical evidence of the WTC metal in preference for backwards engineered computer models. The explains why everybody was so sure WTC-7 was about to collapse (starting 5 hours before it actually fell) even though no steel framed highrise had ever collapsed before 9/11. The explains why the only two pieces of metal ever recovered from WTC-7 were exposed to unusual high temperature sulfidation.

That explains the of lack of physical evidence (like terminal security camera footage, for instance) produced that shows the hijackers. The explains the evidence that was obviously planted in Atta's trunk and the other hijackers' hotel rooms. The explains the magically recovered passport. That explains how the hijackers got their visas! That explains how a shitty pilot supposedly knocked down a bunch of street lamps before plowing into the Pentagon less than 10 feet off the ground! That explains the hijackers' FBI informant handlers. That explains why 19 stripper chasing, coke snorting, liquor loving operatives all willingly went on a suicide mission for Allah! The explains why Jeb Bush and federal agents seized records from Huffman Aviation - the Florida flight school of Mohammed Atta and other 9/11 hijackers - in the middle of the night on 9/11. The explains how the same FBI that still has no clue about who did the anthrax attacks 7 years later was somehow able to positively identify all 19 hijackers correctly with 48 hours. That explains why the FBI promoted the same individuals who thwarted the pre-9/11 terrorist investigations.

That explains why the Pentagon brass was warned not to fly on 9/10. The explains why the victims' families were stonewalled on any 9/11 investigation for so long. That explains why the 9/11 Commission concluded that the question of who funded 9/11 was "of little consequence."

That explains why the chief of the Pakistani ISI wired Mohammed Atta $10,000. That explains why this same chief of the Pakistani ISI was meeting with Porter Goss and Bob Graham on the morning of 9/11. That explains why the Bin Ladens were allowed to fly around the country when nobody else was right after 9/11. That explains why FEMA set up shop near the WTC in NYC on 9/10/01.

That explains how Bush's 9/11 telephone logs somehow "disappeared." The explains why the tape of the NYC's air traffic controllers' testimony from 9/11 was cut into little pieces and put into dozens of different garbage cans.

[Sweet Pea]

8. Feel better?

Getting all that out? I know a nice periodic purge of all the poisonous crap that builds up inside is good for the soul.

The OP was about the supposed "standdown". I pointed out there was no "standdown", that aircraft were not launched from NORAD-designated bases because people did not know what was going on. If you want to assume that there was absolutely perfect connectivity and interoperability between every government agency, aviation-related or not, which resulted in perfect knowledge and perfect awareness and perfect situational awareness that day (or even today for that matter), then keep on living in your little blue-smoke tinged world.

That was what the OP and what my response was about, and you go off on this diarrhea of every thing 9/11 related, a vomitus of every scintillating piece of 9/11 minutia that you can find.

So, I do hope you feel better now. Didn't contribute squat to the discussion, though.

[mhatrw]

14. Your explanation is full of shit. The "fog of war" excuse has been used

to justify everything from the Gulf of Tonkin incident to why organized mercenaries were allowed to loot Iraqi museums.

I'm not expecting perfect situational awareness. But anybody watching TV or listening to the radio on 9/11 knew we were undergoing a terrorist attack in which planes were being used as weapons by 9:10 EDT. Yet the entire US military was not able to vector a single fighter in the direction of Flight 93 for over 40 minutes even though it was a confirmed hijacking over an hour into the 9/11 crisis?

That is not acceptable. Nor is it even believable without some sort of organized or systemic interference. Hell, Flight 93's passengers were supposedly able to learn about the situation, develop a plan, say goodbye to their loved ones, pray for 10 minutes a Verizon operator, mount an attack and cause their plane to crash 15 minutes before anybody in the entire US military knew there was a hijacking. That doesn't fly.

[Sweet Pea]

32. You might not like "the fog of war"...

but it has been around and in truth a whole lot longer than you have been posting bullshit Twoofer crap on an internet forum.

Simply not liking the explanation of something is no reason to deny its existence. Perfect knowledge of something rarely exists, especially when an emergency or a crisis or something of great magnitude occurs. Again, it seems that you think everyone on 9/11 had the absolute clarity of knowledge and perfect thought that goes along with you Twoofers in your world, but that ain't the case. Real life means people screw up, don't know what is happening, postpone action, delay decisions, question things, ask for guidance, request information, gather facts, take their time, whatever. All that translates into simply not fucking knowing what was happening, a strange event in your perfect Twoofer world, but a fact it is. It is the fallacy of the perfect government or organization - it has *never* been that way and *never* will be.

Even as late as 10:30 the FAA still thought they had 7 planes hijacked and missing and could not account for. This, even after one of the MORE successful occurrences that day - the national ground stop and landing order - which got nearly 4,500 aircraft on the ground in 2 hours.

You *are* expecting perfect SA post-case, which is bullshit to expect but is what I expect from the moonbats.

"That is not acceptable". You gonna stomp your foot next?

[mhatrw]

52. Everybody knew Flight 93 was a confirmed hijacking. EVERYBODY!

Cleveland ARTCC knew. UAL knew. The FAA knew. The mayor of Cleveland knew. The mayor of Pittsburgh knew. A bevy of Congressmen knew. The FBI knew. All the passengers and crew on Flight 93 knew. Many of the passengers' loved ones knew. Three fucking airports on Flight 93's path were evacuated in real time as Flight 93 flew overhead, for God's sake.

But we are expected to believe that nobody in the entire US military heard a peep about all this. Because of The Fog Of War (tm)? Get real. Your "arguments" are stinky dogshit.

[Bolo Boffin]

53. Cry all you like. NEADS was informed of 93 at 10:07, four minutes after 93 crashed.

This is a fact. The complete NORAD tapes have been released for September 11th, 2001. Feel free to search through them and prove otherwise.

ETA: http://911myths.com/index.php/NORAD

[eomer]

54. Are you saying there cannot have been any other communications?

In other words, that the communications on the tapes are the only communications and that it is impossible there were any others? Because, unless you are saying that, then the fact that there was one communication at 10:07 does not preclude there being one or more earlier ones, off tape.

In fact, there was testimony before the 9/11 Commission saying that NORAD was notified of 93 being a hijack much earlier than 10:07.

Here is testimony by Col. Alan Scott:

At 9:05, FAA reports a possible hijack of United 175. Again, that's three minutes after the impact in the tower. That's how long it is taking now the information to flow through the system to the command and control agencies and through the command and control agencies to the pilots in the cockpit. At 9:09, Langley F-16s are directed to battle stations, just based on the general situation and the breaking news, and the general developing feeling about what's going on. And at about that same time, kind of way out in the West, is when America 77, which in the meantime has turned off its transponder and turned left back toward Washington, appears back in radar coverage. And my understanding is the FAA controllers now are beginning to pick up primary skin paints on an airplane, and they don't know exactly whether that is 77, and they are asking a lot of people whether it is, including an a C-130 that is westbound toward Ohio. At 9:11 FAA reports a crash into the South Tower. You can see now that lag time has increased from seven minutes from impact to report; now it's nine minutes from impact to report. You can only imagine what's going on on the floors of the control centers around the country. At 9:11 -- I just mentioned that -- 9:16, now FAA reports a possible hijack of United Flight 93, which is out in the Ohio area. But that's the last flight that is going to impact the ground.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/hearing2/9-11Commission_Hearing_2003-05-23.htm

And here is testimony by Gen. Larry Arnold:

GEN. ARNOLD: Thank you. The simple answer to your question is I believe that to be a fact: that 9:24 was the first time that we had been advised of American 77 as a possible hijacked airplane. Our focus -- you have got to remember that there's a lot of other things going on simultaneously here, was on United 93, which was being pointed out to us very aggressively I might say by the FAA. Because our radars looking outward and not inward, the only way for us to know where anything was was for the FAA to pass along that information to us.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/hearing2/9-11Commission_Hearing_2003-05-23.htm

[Bolo Boffin]

55. They could not have reported a hijack of 93 at 9:16.

93 wasn't hijacked until well after then.

[eomer]

56. I don't believe that has been absolutely established.

Like many other aspects of 9/11, there are conflicting reports and therefore there are multiple theories possible, each of which explains some but not all of the reports.

NORAD and the Pentagon may have evidence of additional events that we haven't heard of and that their timelines were based on. Or maybe they don't know what the underlying events were that caused them to be notified but only know that they were in fact notified sometime earlier than any other events would indicate. For example, maybe the awareness by Cleavland controllers that 93 was alternating between ascending and descending 300 feet happened as early as 9:16 (the exact time of this event is apparently not known). Or maybe it was a bit later, say 9:24. That kind of behavior certainly should have been treated as a "possible hijack", given the other things happening that day. Maybe someone in Cleavland did treat it as that and passed the information on so that it found its way to NORAD. Or, maybe the military noticed aberrant behavior at an earlier time from systems they don't want to talk about publicly.

The bottom line I'm getting at here is that there may be lots of things that happened that we know nothing about. The facts as we know them do not rule out an earlier start of the hijacking, as far as I know.

[Bolo Boffin]

57. At 9:24, the pilots responded to a warning about cockpit intrusion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93

By 9:02 a.m., the aircraft reached its cruising altitude of 35,000 feet.<1> At 9:24 a.m. Flight 93 received from flight dispatch the warning "Beware any cockpit intrusion—two a/c hit World Trade Center". At 9:26 a.m. the pilot asked for confirmation of the message. That was the last time flight dispatch heard from Flight 93.

At about 9:28 a.m., after both towers of the World Trade Center had already been hit, air traffic controllers in Cleveland Center overheard the pilot Jason Dahl yelling "Get out of here", along with commotion and possibly screaming from the cockpit.<1> Forty seconds later, more screams were heard. During this time the aircraft dropped 700 feet (200 m). Air traffic controllers tried to contact the pilot and received no reply.

United 93 was hijacked around 9:28. It could not have been reported as hijacked at 9:16 except through the grossest of errors.

Please stop talking bullshit.

[mhatrw]

61. Which revision of the story makes that claim? n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

62. The wiki sources its statements. n/t

[mhatrw]

60. Which revision of the story makes that claim? n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

63. The one that accords with reality. n/t

[eomer]

64. Transcripts from recordings made in the ATC centers?

This document, cited by the Wikipedia article, has most of what we're discussing:

http://www.ntsb.gov/info/Flight%20_Path_%20Study_UA93.pdf

I assume the voice transcript part of this document was from audio recordings in the various ATC centers that were involved, although the document doesn't say what the source was. The sources for the flight path are explained in the document.

The message to lock the cockpit door doesn't seem to have come from Cleavland ATC (if the letters after the time indicate the source). The pilot's request for confirmation doesn't appear at all. However, those differences are not signficant to the question we were discussing since the other communication between UA 93 and Cleavland do box in the start time of the hijack pretty narrowly. The last apparently routine message from UA 93 in the transcript is at 9:27:30. The next message is a mayday from UA 93 at 9:28:16. So, if the transcript is correct, the hijack started at around 9:28.

There is also the report by Stacey Taylor (a controller at Cleavland) that another controller noticed UA 93 alternating between ascending and descending 300 feet and concluded from that that it was another hijack. The flight path in the document I referenced here doesn't mention any behavior like that, which is strange, but in any event it is possible that someone at Cleavland recognized something even earlier than 9:28. However, that would require a scenario where the pilot already knows there is a hijack in progress but is keeping his communication with the controllers routine because he has a hijacker in the cockpit, and at the same time is making course changes to try to tip off the controllers. That is a stretch and, in any event, the pilot wouldn't be initiating conversations about the weather under those circumstances so the time couldn't go earlier than about 9:24.

So, if we stipulate that the hijack started at around 9:28, Cleavland ATC had clear indications of that fact at around that same time (the mayday call at 9:28:16 and the "get out of here" message from UA 93 at 9:28:48).

Given that Cleavland ATC knew it was a hijack no later than 9:28, how do we know that no one at Cleavland communicated that fact to anyone outside Cleavland? And how do we know that word of this event reached no one in the military, nowhere, nohow?

[Bolo Boffin]

65. The message about cockpit intrusion wasn't vocally relayed.

It was done through a text-based message system and responded to in the same way.

Moments later, the sound of the actual invasion was transmitted over the radio.

Feel free to search the NORAD tapes yourself. No one has any idea of 93 as a hijack until 10:07.

[eomer]

66. OK, thanks.

Maybe I will work through the tapes when I have more time.

[mhatrw]

68. Let's hear all the ATC tapes from 9/11.

Let's create a publicly accessible library of all of these tapes.

Let's hear cockpit voice recorder for Flight 93.

Until then, what we have is at least seven different and conflicting stories about the events of that day, and none that can remotely explain why or how (supposedly) nobody in the US military was ever made aware of Flight 93 during the well over 30 minutes that passed from the time that all accounts say Flight 93 was a confirmed hijacking to the time that it crashed.

[Bolo Boffin]

69. Your retreat into "can't know anything" is no cause of concern for any other person. n/t

[mhatrw]

70. The fact that there have been seven different response stories is of no concern to you?

What a "skeptic" you are! :eyes:

[Bolo Boffin]

71. Your "know nothing" rhetoric is of no concern to me. n/t

[vincent_vega_lives]

72. Cooperative research

Gives a good account of how confused that day was.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&complete_911_timeline_key_events=complete_911_timeline_key_day_of_9_11_events

9:16 a.m. September 11, 2001: Flight 93 Reported Hijacked before Hijacking Supposedly Occurs, According to Some Accounts; One Hijacker May Have Snuck into Cockpit Early

(9:20 a.m.) September 11, 2001: FAA Sets Up Ineffectual Hijacking Teleconference

(9:20 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Barbara Olson Said to Call from Flight 77, but Account Is Full of Contradictions

9:21 a.m. September 11, 2001: Boston Air Traffic Control Center Mistakenly Tells NEADS Flight 11 Is Still Airborne

(9:24 a.m.) September 11, 2001: By Some Accounts, FAA Notifies NORAD Flight 77 Is Hijacked and Washington-Bound; 9/11 Commission Claims This Never Happens

(9:26 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Cheney Given Updates on Unidentified Flight 77 Heading toward Washington; Says ‘Orders Still Stand’

(9:28 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Cleveland Flight Control Hears Sounds of Struggle as Flight 93 Is Hijacked

(9:28 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Hijackers Take over Flight 93

9:29 a.m. September 11, 2001: President Bush Makes a Scheduled Speech; Proclaims Terrorist Attack on Our Country

(9:29 a.m.-9:37 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Pentagon Command Center Begins High Level Conference Call

9:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Langley Fighters Take Off Toward Washington; They Could Reach City in Six Minutes but Take Half an Hour

(9:30 a.m.-9:37 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Langley Fighters Fly East to Ocean Instead of North to Washington; Explanations Differ

(9:32 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight 93 Hijacker Tells Passengers Bomb Is Onboard; Air Traffic Controller Overhears

9:34 a.m. September 11, 2001: FAA Mentions in Passing to NORAD that Flight 77 Is Missing

(9:36 a.m.-10:06 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Military Claims it is Tracking Flight 93 and Ready to Shoot it Down; 9/11 Commission Says Otherwise

9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001: Langley Fighters Still Short of Washington; Where and Why Is Not Clear

9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001: Flight 77 Crashes into Reinforced Section of the Pentagon

9:42 a.m. September 11, 2001: Passenger Mark Bingham Tells of Bomb Threat on Flight 93

(9:45 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Senior FAA Manager, on His First Day on the Job, Orders All Planes Out of the Sky Nationwide

9:49 a.m. September 11, 2001: FAA Headquarters Continues to Delay Decision on Contacting NORAD About Flight 93

(9:56 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Air Force One Gets Airborne Without Fighter Escort

9:57 a.m. September 11, 2001: Passengers Begin Attempt to Regain Control of Flight 93

10:03 a.m. September 11, 2001: NMCC Learns of Flight 93 Hijacking, NORAD Still Not Told

(10:06 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight 93 Crashes into Filled-in Mine in Pennsylvania Countryside

(10:42 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Andrews Fighters Finally Take Off, but Without Missiles

[mhatrw]

73. At least half of those cites are dis/misinformation.

Reading the details of all of these conflicting, contradictory and unbelievable accounts makes this clear:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&complete_911_timeline_key_events=complete_911_timeline_key_day_of_9_11_events

[vincent_vega_lives]

74. What is clear

is that events were very confused. Your perception is that people intentionally lied, covered up and intentionally put out "dis/misinformation". I think this shows the oposite. There is no dicernable pattern of an attempt to provide disinformation in any specific direction. There is just multiple individuals and agencies struggling to determine what is good information and what is bad.

I think you are defaiming individuals that were attempting to the best job they could within a system that was ill suted to react to the information that was being fed into it at the time.

[mhatrw]

75. Sure. So they couldn't figure out what they had done on 9/11 months after the fact?

Two days after 9/11, General Myers doesn't remember what he himself was doing and doesn't know what the USAF response to the attack was:

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040814220906511

[vincent_vega_lives]

76. Meyers was the Chairman of the JCS

The Joint Chiefs have no executive powers. They are and advisory council to the president. He was not in the USAF chain of command.

[mhatrw]

77. So that's why he couldn't remember what he HIMSELF did on 9/11/01 on 9/13/01?

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040814220906511

"And I went into the National Military Command Center because that's essentially my battle station when things are happening."

What does the Chairman of the JCS generally do from his battle station -- pick his ass?

[vincent_vega_lives]

78. He advises the SEC DEF

so yes pretty much.

[mhatrw]

79. Luckily for him Rumsfeld was not there either.

Both Rumsfeld and Myers sat in meetings discussing the threat of terrorism while the US was under attack.

Then Rummy ran outside to play doctor instead of going to his command post.

[BeachBaby]

9. Wow!

Just wow.

That's one of the best essays I've ever seen. I don't know what else to say.

I would like to share your post with some of my friends - are you okay with me copying and pasting into an email?

Beautiful work - thank you.

[mhatrw]

16. Please feel free to use anything I post whenever or whereever.

I don't do this for the credit. I do it because I feel it is my duty as a US citizen.

I actually wrote it very quickly in disgust, so it had a ton of typos.

Here is a corrected version (although this may still have an error or two). Feel free to correct, modify, edit or add anything I missed.

Yep. That explains everything!

That explains what Bush was doing on 9/11. That explains what Rumsfeld was doing on 9/11. That explains what General Myers was doing on 9/11. That explain what the FAA, NORAD, NEADS and the rest of the USAF were doing on 9/11.

That explains all the cell phone calls made from planes flying 500+ mph at 30,000+ feet. That explains Flight 93's debris field. That explains Flight 93's crash occurring three minutes before a documented, measured seismic event in the vicinity of Flight 93's crash site. That explains why there were no comprehensive NTSB investigations of the crashes of any of the 9/11 flights.

That explains the aborted anthrax investigation. That explains why everybody in the Whitehouse went on Cipro days before the anthrax attacks.

That explains why multiple war games were occurring on 9/11. That explains why the FAA couldn't be bothered to contact the military about confirmed hijackings even after two planes had crashed in the WTC. That explains why turning off transponders makes planes invisible! That explains why publicly available Flight Explorer and FlyteComm software easily tracked the hijacked planes when the FAA and US military couldn't. That explains why no traces of the black boxes from the planes that crashed into the WTC towers were ever found.

That explains why 98% of all the WTC metal was shipped away and melted down before it could be investigated. That explains why NIST ignored the physical evidence of the WTC metal in preference for backwards engineered computer models. That explains why everybody was so sure WTC-7 was about to collapse (starting 5 hours before it actually fell) even though no steel framed high-rise had ever collapsed before 9/11. That explains why the only two pieces of metal ever recovered from WTC-7 were exposed to unusual high temperature sulfidation.

That explains the lack of physical evidence (like terminal security camera footage, for instance) produced that shows the hijackers. That explains the evidence that was obviously planted in Atta's trunk and the other hijackers' hotel rooms. That explains the magically recovered passport. That explains how the hijackers got their visas! That explains how a shitty pilot supposedly knocked down a bunch of street lamps before plowing into the Pentagon less than 10 feet off the ground! That explains the hijackers' FBI informant handlers. That explains why 19 stripper chasing, coke snorting, liquor loving operatives all willingly went on a suicide mission for Allah! The explains why Jeb Bush and federal agents seized records from Huffman Aviation -- the Florida flight school of Mohammed Atta and other 9/11 hijackers -- in the middle of the night on 9/11. The explains how the same FBI that still has no clue about who did the anthrax attacks 7 years later was somehow able to positively identify all 19 hijackers correctly with 48 hours. That explains why the FBI promoted the exact same individuals who thwarted the pre-9/11 terrorist investigations.

That explains why the Pentagon brass was warned not to fly on 9/10. That explains why the victims' families were stonewalled on any 9/11 investigation for so long. That explains why the 9/11 Commission concluded that the question of who funded 9/11 was "of little consequence."

That explains why the chief of the Pakistani ISI wired Mohammed Atta $10,000. That explains why this same chief of the Pakistani ISI was meeting with Porter Goss and Bob Graham on the morning of 9/11. That explains why the Bin Ladens were allowed to fly around the country when nobody else was right after 9/11. That explains why FEMA set up shop near the WTC in NYC on 9/10/01.

That explains how Bush's 9/11 telephone logs somehow "disappeared." That explains why the tape of the NYC's air traffic controllers' testimony from 9/11 was cut into little pieces and put into dozens of different garbage cans.

[BeachBaby]

21. It would be my honor to share your words.....

and it's MY duty as a US citizen to share with as many people I can.

Thanks again. :)

[Bolo Boffin]

25. Get a room. n/t

[BeachBaby]

26. Get a grip. n/t

[Sweet Pea]

38. AllI can say is...

:puke:

[Grateful for Hope]

10. Excellent...

I wish I had your way with words. You have nailed it, mhatrw.

[Twist_U_Up]

27. Smack down complete. Super job nt

[CrawlingChaos]

41. Great job!

I'm saving your post as well - very powerful stuff. I don't know about you guys, but I'm finding it harder and harder to find people IRL who disagree with me about 9/11. The real trick is convincing them they have the power to do anything about it. We have to keep trying though, because after the next synthetic terror attack, we may have far fewer options (if you believe, as I do, that the next one leads to martial law).

Thanks for your excellent efforts. When you present 9/11 evidence en masse, as you've done so well in your post, it gets people angry. And that's we need.

[SDuderstadt]

42. "I'm finding it harder and harder to find people IRL who disagree with me about 9/11"

Gee, I wonder why. Try this...walk into a McDonald's and ask, "does anyone here like fast food?" and see if you don't get a similar response. Duh.

[Ghost in the Machine]

39. What years did you work at the pentagon?

I have a cousin who worked there for a few years. She was in Intelligence with the Air Force. Her husband (at the time, they're divorced now) flew Air Force 2 and flew Al Gore around when he was V.P.

I can PM you her name if you'd like... she runs an Intelligence operation over in Germany now...

[AZCat]

40. They call the VP's plane Air Force 2?

I didn't know that, although it makes sense.

[Ghost in the Machine]

43. Yes, Air Force 1 for the President, Air Force 2 for the VP...

They're actually call signs, just as the helicopters are Marine One & Marine Two...


"Air Force Two is the air traffic control call sign used by any United States Air Force aircraft carrying the Vice President.<1> The term is often associated with a Boeing C-32, a modified 757 which is most commonly used as the Vice President's transport. The C-40 Clipper, a version of the Boeing 737, also serves in this role. Although the U.S. Marine Corps carry the primary mission for helicopter support of both the President, Marine One, and Vice President, Marine Two, UH-1N Twin Huey helicopters from the Air Force's 1st Helicopter Squadron are also used to support the Vice President in the Washington, D.C. area under the callsign Air Force Two." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Two

[SDuderstadt]

44. There is an unconfirmed rumor that...

during W's terms, Marine One is sometimes referred to as Moron One.

[Ghost in the Machine]

45. LOL! Now that's a rumor that probably has legs... I believe it, without a doubt

I have several family members who are active military in the Army, Navy & Air Force, plus several retired, and none of them have anything good to say about their "commander-in-chief"...

Everyone thinks he's a moron...

:hi:

[hack89]

47. Just to add to this thread

prior to 1976 the Army and the Marines shared the responsibility of flying the Presidents helicopter. When the Army was flying, it was called Army One. It was Army One that flew Nixon from the White House when he resigned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_One

[Ghost in the Machine]

48. Thanks for sharing that, I was unaware of Army One...

We learn something new every day, huh? All I've ever heard referred to is AF1, AF2 & Marine One & Two.. I would have never even thought to google anything about the Army...

[Ghost in the Machine]

58. Here's a pic of my cousin...

NASOSNAYA AIR BASE, Azerbaijan (USAFENS) – Col Theresa Meyer, Director, USAFE Intelligence Directorate, takes a seat in an Azerbaijani Air Force MiG-25 FOXBAT at Nasosnaya Air Base, Azerbaijan 18 May. During the visit to Baku, USAFE leadership toured the former Russian airfield and met with Azerbaijani senior leaders. The MiG-25 is a second generation high-speed interceptor and reconnaissance aircraft produced by Russia's Mikoyan-Gurevich design bureau and officially entered into service in 1973. It remains in limited service in Russia, Azerbaijan and several other nations.

[AZCat]

59. That would have been a very cool visit.

Your cousin must be a special person to have merited such, aside from being very lucky. (I don't think we have an "envious" smiley)

[Ghost in the Machine]

67. I've seen pictures of some of the other places she's been.. like standing inside Saddam's mansion

in Iraq... and various other pics from Iraq when she was there. I don't know how muck luck had to do with it, but I know she worked her ass off to get where she is now. She was in the top 10 of the first group of females they let in the Air Force Academy. I was still in high school at the time, and I was her pen-pal while she was there. It's been a while since I've seen or talked to her since she's been overseas, but last I heard she was bucking for General. I haven't heard whether she made it yet or not... I might have to call my aunt sometime this week and see.