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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-30-08 06:06 PM
Original message
Aviation companies blame FBI, CIA and terrorists for 9/11
Edited on Wed Apr-30-08 06:08 PM by seemslikeadream
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3291099

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/04/30/america/Sept-11-Lawsuits.php


NEW YORK: Aviation companies sued by the families of Sept. 11 victims for failing to safeguard air travel are in turn blaming federal investigators — arguing the Federal Aviation Administration was not alerted that al-Qaida was poised to launch terrorist attacks.

In court documents filed this week in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, aviation companies are seeking to force five FBI employees to provide testimony that may help defend against claims the companies share blame in the attacks.

"The aviation parties anticipate that the FBI witnesses' testimony will demonstrate that the FBI had information before Sept. 11 indicating that al-Qaida may have been about to launch terrorist attacks on civil aviation, which it did not timely pass along to the Federal Aviation Administration," lawyers wrote.

The airlines and aviation companies are defending themselves against lawsuits seeking billions of dollars in damages for injuries, fatalities, property damage and business losses related to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attack.

The companies in turn filed separate lawsuits against the CIA and the FBI last August to force terrorism investigators to tell whether the aviation industry was to blame for the Sept. 11 attacks.





FBI had information before Sept. 11
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-30-08 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. FBI or CIA don't seem to believe in accountability
Garcia said much of the information was protected from disclosure, "because it involves classified national security information or matters protected by the law enforcement investigative privilege."

Comments like this explain why the "conspiracy theorist" label is authoritarian garbage. Only people who refuse to question authority can possibly accept such nonsense from government officials.

We are told the al Qaeda operatives used their real names. If true this means these people would have been picked up by airline security if the FBI or CIA had shared the names. This aspect is what makes Tenet come across as a phony--he whined about sharing urgent warnings with WH officials yet would have the public believe alerting FAA intelligence was too much bother.

IMO, (based on conjecture because the government will not tell the truth about 9/11) the airlines are probably liable due to weapons put on the planes by way of ramp workers. One thing to keep in mind is that the airlines have settled most of the lawsuits. If they truly believed the FBI or CIA were solely responsible it seems they wouldn't have settled any cases.


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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. so true !
"FBI or CIA don't seem to believe in accountability"
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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. RE: Aviation companies blame FBI, CIA and terrorists for 9/11
From the article:

"NEW YORK: Aviation companies sued by the families of Sept. 11 victims for failing to safeguard air travel are in turn blaming federal investigators — arguing the Federal Aviation Administration was not alerted that al-Qaida was poised to launch terrorist attacks.

In court documents filed this week in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, aviation companies are seeking to force five FBI employees to provide testimony that may help defend against claims the companies share blame in the attacks.

"The aviation parties anticipate that the FBI witnesses' testimony will demonstrate that the FBI had information before Sept. 11 indicating that al-Qaida may have been about to launch terrorist attacks on civil aviation, which it did not timely pass along to the Federal Aviation Administration," lawyers wrote.

The airlines and aviation companies are defending themselves against lawsuits seeking billions of dollars in damages for injuries, fatalities, property damage and business losses related to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attack.

The companies in turn filed separate lawsuits against the CIA and the FBI last August to force terrorism investigators to tell whether the aviation industry was to blame for the Sept. 11 attacks.

The latest documents filed by the airlines, airport authorities, security companies and an aircraft manufacturer argue that if the FAA had known about an FBI investigation of Zacarias Moussaoui weeks before the Sept. 11 attacks, it could have amended security measures to guard against the type of terrorist attack Moussaoui was planning.

The aviation defendants said the FBI has refused to permit even a single deposition, although the agency does not deny that five potential witnesses in the case have already testified and made other public statements before the 9/11 Commission, the Moussaoui trial jury and the media.

In the lawsuit against the CIA, companies including American Airlines Inc., United Airlines Inc., US Airways Group Inc., Delta Air Lines Inc., Continental Airlines Inc. and The Boeing Co. are seeking to interview the deputy chief of the CIA's bin Laden unit in 2001, and an FBI special agent assigned to the unit at that time. The names of both are secret.

The lawyers said testimony from both agencies was critical to their defense.

"After weighing this evidence together with the criminal acts of the terrorists, the jury would be entitled to conclude that any act or omission by the aviation parties was so dwarfed by the other causal factors of the attacks that the aviation parties' conduct was not a substantial cause of the plaintiffs' injuries," the lawyers wrote.

U.S. Attorney Michael Garcia said last year that the request for depositions with FBI agents was rejected because the aviation companies didn't explain how FBI information before the attacks would relate to their defense efforts.

Garcia said much of the information was protected from disclosure, "because it involves classified national security information or matters protected by the law enforcement investigative privilege."

He also said it would be "extremely difficult and burdensome" to separate the classified information from the non-classified information and risk that some classified materials may be inadvertently disclosed.

Yusill Scribner, a spokeswoman for government lawyers in the case, said there was no comment Wednesday."

"The latest documents filed by the airlines, airport authorities, security companies and an aircraft manufacturer argue that if the FAA had known about an FBI investigation of Zacarias Moussaoui weeks before the Sept. 11 attacks, it could have amended security measures to guard against the type of terrorist attack Moussaoui was planning."

But Minneapolis FBI Agent Harry Samit did give the information on the arrest of Moussaoui to the FAA, including the fact that Moussaoui was found with two four inch folding knives, and the fact that his arrest was the possible precursor to an aircraft hijacking. He had written up a large memo that he sent directly to the FAA.

"In the lawsuit against the CIA, companies including American Airlines Inc., United Airlines Inc., US Airways Group Inc., Delta Air Lines Inc., Continental Airlines Inc. and The Boeing Co. are seeking to interview the deputy chief of the CIA's bin Laden unit in 2001, and an FBI special agent assigned to the unit at that time. The names of both are secret."

These names are secret according to this report, but it is clear to even the casual observer that these people are Tom Wilshire, the deputy chief of the CIA's bin Laden unit in 2001 until he was moved over to be liaison to Michael Rolince head of the ITOS unit at the FBI, and the FBI special Agent was FBI Agent Douglas Miller. Miller wrote up the official CIR on Khalid al-Mihdhar at the CIA Bin Laden unit, a CIR which included Mihdhar's passport photo, passport number, the fact he had a multi-entry visa for the US and even the fact he was traveling from Sanna Yemen to an important al Qaeada planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur to be held for January 5-8, 2000, with Nawaf and Salem, all known to be long time al Qaeda terrorists. Miller's CIR was deliberately blocked from being sent to the FBI by Wilshire on January 5, 2000. Wilshire then had another CIA desk officer send out another cable saying that this information on Mihdhar had been transferred to the FBI when it had not been sent, to make sure no one else sent this information to the FBI. When contacted by FBI IG investigators both Wilshire and his CIA desk officer had complete amnesia about these cables, they can't remember these cables, or why any one would have sent out a cable that said this information had been sent to the FBI.

Wilshire could also explain why he had FBI Agent Dina Corsi set up the meeting in New York on June 11, 2001 with the FBI agents who were part of the Cole investigation, and why when he knew Hazmi was already inside of the US, knew Mihdhar had a multi-entry visas for the US, knew Khallad Bin Attash had been photographed at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting with Mihdhar and Hazmi where the Cole bombing had been planned, he and his subordinate CIA officer Clark Shannon who also had the same information and was at that meeting, never told the Cole investigators about this information. The fact that Wilshire and Shannon both knew Khallad he been at Kuala Lumpur with Mihdhar and Hazmi meant that they then also knew this directly connected these two al Qaeda terrorists to the bombing of the Cole and to this FBI investigation. Had this information been given to the FBI Cole investigators at that time it is inconceivable that these investigators could not have prevented the attacks on 9/11. It was this very information that could have prevented these attacks on 9/11. Instead of giving this information to the FBI investigators, Shannon asked them if they recognized anyone in the three photos they were shown of Mihdhar taken at the Kuala Lumpur meeting.

Since one photo only had the images of Mihdhar and Hazmi, it was clear that Wilshire, Shannon and the CIA only wanted to know if these FBI investigators had uncovered information on Mihdhar and Hazmi in there search for Khallad, the very information the CIA had been keeping hidden from the FBI since January 5, 2000. This meeting had clearly been nothing but a CIA sting on the FBI to find out what the FBI knew about Mihdhar and Hazmi and the meeting in Kuala Lumpur. But this is out and out criminal obstruction of this FBI investigation, so why have all of these people not been arrested and prosecuted yet?

Wilshire could also be asked to explain when he was told by Margaret Gillespie on August 22, 2001 that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US and knew immediately that both were here in order to take part in the huge al Qaeda attack the CIA was aware of why he kept this hidden from the FBI criminal investigators. In fact he should be asked why he never raised any alarm at all over this horrific information. In fact Wilshire then worked with FBI HQ IOS Agent Dina Corsi to shut down the only FBI investigation that could have stopped these attacks, the Cole bombing investigation of FBI headed by FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team. When Wishire and Corsi continued to hide the photo of Khallad taken at Kuala Lumpur, they both knew that this would keep Bongardt from knowing that Khallad, the mastermind of the Cole bombing, was directly connected to Mihdar and Hazmi, and to the planning of the Cole bombing at Kuala Lumpur. Both knew by keeping this photo secret, Bongardt would have no way to prevent Corsi from stripping this investigation away from him and his team, even when these FBI investigators knew that Mihdhar was in the US only in order to carry out another horrific al Qaeda attack, and knew exactly how urgent it was to mount a massive and immediate search for Mihdhar and Hazmi. Since Wilshire and Corsi were both aware of the huge al Qaeda attack about to take place inside of the US, both must have known by shutting down Bongardt's investigation it was going to make all but impossible for the FBI to stop these attacks and as a result thousands of Americans would perish. Maybe they can explain finally why the did this and knowingly allowed thousands of Americans to perish in these attacks!!

On August 23, 2001 Gillespie had the CIA Bin Laden unit issue a world wide alert for both Mihdhar and Hazmi, so at this point the entire CIA Bin Laden unit including Wilshire's CTC and CIA managers and even Cofer Black and George Tenet were aware that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US and were going to take part in these attacks, as Wilshire had clearly indicated in his emails that are now public to his CIA CTC managers in July 2001. It is clear that these emails would have gone right up the hierarchy to both Black and Tenet.

Then maybe Tenet could explain what he told the President on August 25, 2001 or August 31, 2001 when he talked to the President, in meetings that were kept secret, when it is clear at these times Tenet knew about Mihdhar and Hazmi and even knew Moussaoui had been arrested by the FBI as a possible al Qaeda terrorist trying to learn how to fly a 747 with no prior flight experience.

Maybe Tenet can even explain why he lied to the 9/11 Commission at the April 14, 2004 public hearing when he said he had not talked to the President in August 2001. What was Tenet so afraid of that he would deliberately lie in public at a official 9/11 Commission hearing? Was Tenet afraid that is the 9/11 Commissioners knew he had talked to the President in August, they would have asked him what he told the President, when the whole country now knows at this time that Tenet knew a huge al Qaeda attack was just about to take place inside of the US that would kill thousands of Americans, knew both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US and were going to take part in this attack, and even knew Moussaoui had been arrested by the FBI because they thought to be an al Qaeda terrorist who was likely going to take part in a future aircraft hijacking targeted at the World Trade Center Towers? So what did Tenet tell the President?

As this report goes on to say:

"The aviation defendants said the FBI has refused to permit even a single deposition, although the agency does not deny that five potential witnesses in the case have already testified and made other public statements before the 9/11 Commission, the Moussaoui trial jury and the media."

These witnesses would probably be FBI Agent Harry Samit, FBI ITOS manger Michael Rolince, FBI Director Mueller, former FBI Director Freeh and FBI CTC head Dale Watson. These the ones who testified at the Moussaoui trial and at the 9/11 Commission.

But it should also include FBI ITOS RFU mangers David Frasca and Michael Maltbie, the two RFU managers that sabotaged Harry Samit's investigation of Moussaoui with no credible explaination.

But from the information above we know that:

"U.S. Attorney Michael Garcia said last year that the request for depositions with FBI agents was rejected because the aviation companies didn't explain how FBI information before the attacks would relate to their defense efforts.

Garcia said much of the information was protected from disclosure, "because it involves classified national security information or matters protected by the law enforcement investigative privilege."

He also said it would be "extremely difficult and burdensome" to separate the classified information from the non-classified information and risk that some classified materials may be inadvertently disclosed."

So if they can't get the "because it involves classified national security information or matters protected by the law enforcement investigative privilege" argument to work to continue to hide this information they now claim that: "it would be "extremely difficult and burdensome" to separate the classified information from the non-classified information", which is clearly yet another creative but bogus excuse to continue to hide the culpability of the CIA and FBI HQ personal in deliberately allowing the attacks on 9/11 to take place. It is clear the cover up continues.

Let's hope the airlines, and even the Federal judges, are smart enough to see through these pathetic excuses so the information that has been covered up on the 9/11 attacks can finally be exposed to the whole world!

But, perhaps that is hoping for way too much!

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thanks rschop
I was just at your website, thanks for all the work you've done

http://www.eventson911.com/
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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. RE: "Posted by seemslikeadream" I was just at your website, thanks for all the work you've done
All of the documents that I have refereed to in my posts can be down loaded for free from this web site, www.eventson911.com. If any are missing, just let me know and I will post those also.

What is almost beyond belief, is that that the people who should be in the know, the airlines suing the FBI and CIA and the members of congress are also unaware of this information in spite of the fact that almost all if it comes out of official government reports. The only non-official report that I used in the book, "Prior Knowledge of 9/11" was the account of FBI Agent Ali Soufan, lead investigator on the Cole bombing.

But this account was given to Lawrence Wright by FBI Agent Steve Bongardt, and then vetted by FBI information officer John Miller. So I take this account as the official FBI statement on what had actually happened at the FBI HQ and CIA prior to the attacks on 9/11.

The horror story of all horror stories is that account says that Soufan had asked FBI Director Louis Freeh in November 2000 if he would ask CIA Director George Tenent to find out of the CIA had any information on an al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur in January 2000, and if the CIA had any information on the person that the FBI had identified at that time as the mastermind of the Cole bombing, Walid, (Khallad) bin Attash.

Freeh told Soufan that the CIA had none of this information. But Freeh himself had been given the information that there was an important al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur in January 2000, and that Khalid, Nawaf and Salem, thought to be Nawaf's brother had gone to this meeting.

Freeh had been given this information by the CIA in January 2000, so he not only knew about this meeting himself, but knew that the CIA also had the same information and in fact had a lot more information since he was told they were monitoring this meeting and the people who had attended it as it was taking place.

Information right from the FBI, the account of Ali Soufan combined with the Justice Department(FBI) IG report, (refereed to as the FBI IG report) prove that the Director of the FBI Louis Freeh had criminally obstructed his own FBI criminal investigation into the Cole bombing when he refused to give this information to an official FBI request from FBI Agent Ali Soufan.

Since this criminal obstruction of a FBI criminal investigation is now so blatant, one wonders why Freeh has not yet been arrested and prosecuted for these crimes?

Is it possible that "they" know if they prosecute the small fish, the small fish will just point fingers at the bigger fish. And no one knows where this will lead. Or do we?


GO FIGURE!

Again thanks for your many posts and excellent questions. With your help this information will hopefully reach a wider audience with the American people. The people behind the 9/11 investigations have been very careful to obfuscate all of this information at this point. It is now clear the CIA had deliberately and knowing allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place, with help from FBI HQ and FBI IOS agents at FBI HQ.

It is inconceivable that the 9/11 Commission and the Justice Department investigations into the attacks on 9/11 did not uncover this very information, since all of this information is clearly in the public domain today, although it is still not easy to find and organize into one place. Much of this information is just now starting to finally come out from several different sources, so many more people will be able to see what had actually taken place at the CIA and FBI HQ that had allowed these attacks to take place and kill almost 3000 people on 9/11!



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Falcon_Lights1916 Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. What's Amazing Is
Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 07:45 PM by Falcon_Lights1916
that the Democratic Party has not taken this up and worked for a full and honest accounting on 9/11. Or are the right wingers the only ones interested in the truth? Why are we not running with this?
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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. RE: What's Amazing Is
Yes this is truly amazing!

GO FIGURE!
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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Reply to seemslikeadream
Seemslikeadream, see the new web site for www.eventson911.com. It has been up dated with the latest information from the book "Prior Knowledge of 9/11". This site also has the actual source documents on it that now conclusively prove the CIA working with groups at the FBI HQ deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the attacks on 9/11.

Keep up your excellent posts!

rschop
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