I did a new summary analysing of the Jeremy Glick thread. It's a bit long but every stone has to be turned before calling something a lie.
WHY THE OFFICIAL CRASH TIME OF FLIGHT 93 CANNOT BE TRUE
Account of the 9/11-Commission about the last minutes of Flight 93:
At 9:57, the passengers assault began. <…> One of the callers ended her message as follows: “Everyone’s running up to first class. I’ve got to go. Bye.”
The cockpit voice recorder captured the sounds of the passenger assault muffled by the intervening cockpit door. <…>
In response, Jarrah immediately began to roll the airplane to the left and right, attempting to knock the passengers off balance. At 9:58:57, Jarrah told another hijacker in the cockpit to block the door. Jarrah continued to roll the airplane sharply left and right, but the assault continued. At 9:59:52, Jarrah changed tactics and pitched the nose of the airplane up and down to disrupt the assault. The recorder captured the sounds of loud thumps, crashes, shouts, and breaking glasses and plates. At 10:00:03, Jarrah stabilized the airplane.
<…> The sounds of the fighting continued outside the cockpit. Again, Jarrah pitched the nose of the cockpit up and down. At 10:00:26, a passenger in the background said, “In the cockpit. If we don’t we’ll die!” <…> Jarrah stopped the violent manoeuvres at about 10:01:00 and said, “Allah is the greatest! Allah is the greatest!” He then asked another hijacker in the cockpit, “Is that it? I mean shall we put it down?” to which the other replies, “Yes, put it in it, and pull it down.”
The passengers continued their assault and at 10:02:23, a hijacker said, “Pull it down! Pull it down!”
(p. 13f)
Concerning the time of impact the Report states:
“United 93 crashed in Pennsylvania at 10:03:11, 125 miles from Washington D.C.”
(p. 30)
Conflicting observations
Surprisingly the Commission does not mention the seismic recording of 10:06:05 as impact time (Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/nodate/seismicobservations.html).
"The seismic signals are consistent with impact at 10:06:05," plus or minus two seconds, said Terry Wallace, who heads the Southern Arizona Seismic Observatory and is considered the leading expert on the seismology of man-made events. "I don't know where the 10:03 time comes from."
(Philadelphia Daily News, 9/16/02:
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/4084323.htm?1c)
Stickdog has written an excellent essay on this subject (see: 9/11 Commission: There must be 93 ways to blow your cover) and his question is still unanswered: “So if a 757 slamming into the ground at 580 mph, creating a world's record debris field and driving the remains of its passengers some 50 feet into the ground didn't manage to register even the tiniest seismic blip -- what happened in the same vicinity just three minutes later that DID cause a clear, noticeable, incontrovertible seismic spike?”.
Another issue that the Commission did not raise is why no family member of the victims that were finally allowed to listen to the cockpit recording in April 18, 2002 heard any indication that the hijackers decided to crash the plane. Neither any article nor Jere Longman’s book “Among the Heroes” (that is based on interviews with family members) mentioned even the slightest hint that something like this was audible on the recording. On the contrary after listening “relatives believed this sequence proves that the passengers did take control of the plane” (Paul Thompson’s Timeline: (MSNBC, 7/30/02; Telegraph, 8/6/02; Newsweek, 11/25/01). The Commission does not make any attempt to explain the contradiction between what the family members heard and the official version now.
But it was a find by woody box that might be the watertight proof that the official timeline simply cannot be true.
Jeremy Glick’s phone call or A strange behaviour of somebody who wants to fight
Jere Longman based “Among the Heroes” on his interviews with family members and he “heard tapes of a couple of the phone calls made from the plane” (p. xiii). As he quotes at length the conversation between Jeremy Glick and his wife Lyz it seems very likely that Longman had the chance to listen to the tape, too.
Jeremy Glick seated in the coach section phoned his wife Lyz at 9:37 (p. 201). It has been said that he used a GTE airfone.
http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20011028flt93main...Longman notes that in Flight 93 "a GTE airfone (was) located in the center seats of each row" (p. 5).
At one point of the conversation:
Were they going to crash his plane into the World Trade Center? Jeremy wanted to know.
“No,” Lyz said, almost laughing. “They are not going there.”
Why? Jeremy asked.
One of the towers had just fallen.
“They knocked it down,” Lyz told him.
(p. 207)
The first Tower collapsed at 9:59:04 (Paul Thompson’s timeline). So obviously at this point of the conversation it is at least 9:59:15. According to the official timeline the battle at the cockpit was already taking place for two minutes and Jarrah had begun “to the airplane to the left and right” ordered to block the cockpit door. So why wasn’t Jeremy Glick underway already with Todd Beamer who was attacking the cockpit with other passengers from the coach section since 9:58 (the attack at 9:57 was with Tom Burnett and other passengers from the first class)? Even stranger Lisa Jefferson who had been on the phone with Todd Beamer recalled that he “mentioned Glick by his first name”. (
http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010916phonecall...) (A possibly helpful background information: Beamer was seated in row 10, Glick in row 11 (p. 25, 28)).
Let’s see how the conversation between Jeremy and Lyz Glick continues:
They were problem-solving. Lyz asked Jeremy about the United pilots. Were they alive? He didn’t know. Had the real pilots said anything to the passengers over the public address system? No.
Did the hijackers have any automatic weapons? Lyz asked. Even a former judo champion like Jeremy would be no match for guns.
No guns, Jeremy said. “They have knives.”
How could people have gotten on the plane with knives and a bomb? He wanted to know. And then he made a joke that was typical Jeremy. “We just had breakfast and we have our butter knives.”
He said that they were taking a vote. There were three other guys as big as him. Was that a good idea? What should they do?
(p. 216)
What is the time at this moment of the conversation? I believe it’s a conservative guess to say 10:00:30. At the very moment while Jeremy Glick is discussing with his wife what to do, according to the official timeline Jarrah had twice pitched the nose of the airplane up and down and a passenger said “In the cockpit. If we don’t we’ll die!”.
Is it believable that Glick was staying behind? Is it believable that he does not mention Jarrah’s pitching of the airplane’s nose? Is it believable that he discusses attacking the hijackers without telling his wife that the other passengers are doing this for more than three minutes already? Is it believable that also “three other guys as big as him” are staying behind because they want to vote first before joining Todd Beamer and the others? How many “big guys” are in the coach section (only 27 passengers all in all were seated in the coach section – see p. xvi)? And why then does flight attendant Sandy Bradshaw (“who seemed to be in the back of the plane” – p. 247) tell her husband on the phone “We’re going to throw water on them and try to take the airplane back over. Phil, everyone’s running to first class. I’ve got to go. Bye.” (p. 248). Everyone?
But let us see how the conversation continues:
Lyz shook as she talked to her husband, but when she heard that the hijackers didn’t have guns, she thought Jeremy would be okay. He could get stabbed, or get his hand slice, but he might not even feel it in the adrenaline rush. Getting stabbed wouldn’t kill him. The only hope is if they take these people over and get control of the plane.
“I think you need to do it,” Lyz told Jeremy.
“Okay,” he said. “Stay on the phone, I’ll be right back.”
There was a sound of conviction in his voice. Not anger, but a sense of purpose. He wanted to get home to wife and daughter.
They were going to jump on the hijackers and attack them, Jeremy said.
(p.216f)
What is the time now? Again I would say that 10:01:15 is a conservative guess. Now is the moment that “they” have taken the decision to attack. But according to the official timeline the battle has reached it’s peak already and Jarrah is asking if he should crash the plane.
Why doesn’t Glick who clearly has the intention to attack the hijackers stay back? Why do “the other three big guys” not join the battle?
Let’s see how the conversation continues:
Put a picture of me and the baby in your head, Lyz said to Jeremy.
He went away, and it sounded as if he were talking to people.
(p. 217)
To say it’s now 10:01:30 is still very conservative. But Glick doesn’t rush to the cockpit to join the other passengers in their ongoing battle. He talks to other people. This is very understandable if one is planning an attack but not if this attack is already underway since four and a half minute (according to the official timeline). And why are there still people to talk to when “everybody” had gone already in the front of the plane?
“Among the Heroes” continues:
“She couldn’t bear to listen and handed the phone to her father
”
(p. 217)
According to the official timeline there are only 53 seconds left before the hijackers will start to pull down the airplane. And about 101 seconds before the plane crashes. Lyz’ father said:
"There was no noise for several minutes. And then there were screams, so I said - well, they're doing it. Another minute, it seemed like an eternity, but another minute, a minute and a half, and then there was another set of screams. It was muffled. Then there was nothing."
(Mirror, 9/20/01:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=11314790&method=full)
But this clearly contradicts the official timeline as the plane crashed at latest after 101 seconds. Richard Makely varies slightly in his judgement of the length of this silence (“two minutes” – San Francisco Chronicle, 9/17/01; “several minutes” – NBC, 7/30/02 – “a pause, and then a minute later” – AP, 9/15/01 – “45 seconds later” – UK documentary film “Flight 93: A Reconstruction (2002)). Only the last figure would not directly contradict the timeline. But even if it really was “only” 45 seconds of silence (and the second silence very short and not a minute as indicated in the quote above) then it implies that Glick (and obviously the other three big guys) join the battle at the very moment when the hijacker decided to crash the plane as the hijackers didn’t see any chance to withstand the attack of the passengers. But can one seriously believe Jeremy Glick’s highly bizarre behaviour?
Or to use the k-robjoe’s ironical explanation:
“So Jeremy Glick went into denial. And so he talked to his wife as if nothing was actually happening, even though the passengers had stormed the cockpit and the plane was being rocked violently.
And then he sort of went into a different kind of denial, where he playacted (?) for his wife like he was now taking part in the riot, that in reality had already taken place a couple of minutes back?
And then when his wife handed the phone over to her father, Glick waited for forty seconds or so, and then he started screaming and yelling like a group of people starting a riot would sound like?”
And one could add: All this he’s doing while at the same time providing calmly all important information concerning the flight:
“What was the flight number? the 911 dispatcher wanted to know.
Where was the plane headed?
How many passengers?
What was the nationality of the hijackers?
What did they look like?
What did the ground look like beneath the plane?
Were they circling?"
(p. 206)
No background noise
Lyz Glick later recalled of the conversation with her husband: “I didn't hear any screaming. I didn't hear any noises. I didn't hear any commotion.”
(NBC 09/30/02, http://billstclair.com/911timeline/2002/msnbc090302.html) And it corresponds to her statement that neither her nor Jeremy Glick mentioned any background noise during their call.
But this is rather strange. The Commission Report states:
“At 9.57, <…> The cockpit voice recorder captured the sounds of the passenger assault muffled by the intervening cockpit door.”
(p. 13f)
And several other person who are on the phone with passengers from Flight 93 do hear background noise as well:
Lisa Jefferson on the phone with Todd Beamer:
Then, in the background, she could hear an "awful commotion", men's voices raised and hollering and women screaming "Oh my God," and "God help us," and "Help Jesus."
Todd seemed to turn away from the phone to speak with someone else.
"You ready?" he said. "Okay. Let's roll."
(p. 287f)
(Times Herald, 9/11/02; Orlando Sentinel, 9/6/02; Sun-Sentinel, 9/11/02)
Also Jefferson’s supervisor heard the screaming.
(San Francisco Chronicle, 9/17/01: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/09/17/MN40630.DTL)
(This description fits exactly with the official timeline as the first attack started in the first class section one minute before the coach section attacked).
Fred Fiumano listens to Marion Britton:
"Fiumano could hear screaming, a lot of noise"
(p. 228)
Lorne Lyles listens to CeeCee Lyles:
"I think they're doing it," CeeCee said. "They're forcing their way into the cockpit."
Lorne could hear screaming in the background."
(p. 253)
So why didn’t Lyz Glick hear any noise during her conversation even if according to the official timeline the battle is going on for four and a half minutes now?
Although Richard Makely slightly varies his estimation of the length of the first silence he heard he always clearly stated that after picking up the phone he didn’t hear a sound of the battle for quite a long time. And his observation is confirmed by officials:
“According to law-enforcement sources (who were listening in on the conversation), there was silence on the line. Then screams. Then silence. Then screams. Then nothing.”
(Newsweek, 09/13/01: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3069645/
Why didn’t neither Makely nor law-enforcement sources hear any signs of a battle at the moment when Glick left his phone? Why didn’t Lyz Glick never hear background noises (although she was able to hear that her husband was talking to his neighbours and it was possible to hear what’s going on at the cockpit as it is confirmed by Makely’s and the law enforcement sources’s statement; not to mention the statements by others who had been on the line with passengers from Flight 93)? How can there have been a battle already going on since four and a half minutes at least? Why does Makely hear the battle only (with the most conservative guess) at 10:02:15?
Is it possible that the there were technical problems with the phone connection? This again is highly unlikely. Neither Lyz Glick nor her father mentioned these kind of problem. Moreover the conversation doesn’t indicate the slightest technical problem. Not to mention that obviously Lyz Glick and Jeremy Glick had no problem to follow their conversation. And last but not least the fact that Lyz Glick could hear Jeremy talking to his neighbours and Richard Makely and the law-enforcement sources clearly could hear the sound of the battle proves that there was no technical problem of the connection. So why does Richard Makely hear the first sign of a battle only at about 10:02:15 and not at 9:57?
Looking for an explanation
As the exact time of the collapse of the WTC is beyond doubt we can come to the conclusion now that either the official timeline or the account of Jeremy Glick’s phone call can’t be true.
So did Lyz Glick consciously or unconsciously not tell the accurate truth?
This is basically impossible for the following reasons:
The New York state police patched into the phone call after Lyz Glicks’ mother had dialled 911. (p. 206). This was shortly after Glick called his wife around 9:37. The State Police dispatcher is Robert Weingaertner (Times Union, 09/08/02) http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=57018&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=9/8/2002. There is also another witness of this phone call: “Captain Francis Christensen stood behind Weingaertner, firmly directing troopers who were flooding the dispatch room. Call Verizon and see if they can patch directly into Glick's call. Contact the FBI. Call the Federal Aviation Administration”. (Times Union, 09/08/02)
http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=57018&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=9/8/2002
After the end of the call “(a)n emergency official arrived at the Makelys' home in Windham and took the phone, telling Weingaertner they were there. The call was disconnected. The tape would later be turned over to the FBI.”
(Times Union, 09/08/02)
http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=57018&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=9/8/2002
It exists a tape and a transcript of the phone call.
(Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 09/13/01)
http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010913somersetnat3p3.asp
(Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 10/20/01)
On September 12, 2001 Lyz Glick and other recipients of the phone call were interviewed by the FBI. On April 22, 2004 Lyz Glick was questioned once again by the FBI. (9/11 Commission Report, p. 457)
It is really hard to believe that Lyz Glick didn’t say the accurate truth or that the FBI and the Commission were too dumb to realize this although they had the recording and the transcript of the call in front of them.
Was Jere Longman not accurate?
Although the 9/11 Commission uses “Among the Heroes” as a source for their Report (e.g. p. 457) maybe the New York Times journalist Jere Longman was happy to invent the detail of the WTC collapse.
This would be rather surprising as he give the description of the collapse very precisely:
"Are they going to blow this plane up?" Jeremy asked.
She didn't know, Lyz said, but, yes it was true that two planes had crashed into the World Trade Center. By now, it was almost ten o'clock (! my comment). At nine fifty-eight, the south tower collapsed in a telescoping of smoke and metal and glass and crumbled rescue.
Were they going to crash his plane into the World Trade Center? Jeremy wanted to know.
"No" Lyz said (...) "They knocked it down"."
(p. 207)
Moreover Longman interviewed Lyz Glick and most likely listened to the tape (as already mentioned). But the doubts concerning Longman’s accuracy are refuted by the simple fact that Lyz Glick repeated herself this detail of the conversation with her husband several times:
Ms. GLICK: He began to ask me, 'Are they crashing planes into the World Trade Center?' I guess one of the other passengers had spoken to his mother, I believe it might have been, and that message might have been relayed. So he asked that. And then I am watching on the big screen television in front of me the World Trade Centers collapsing.
(ABC, 09/18/01)
(NBC, 08/20/02: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3080114
(Observer, 02.12.01:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/waronterrorism/story/0,1373,610355,00.html)
(The documentary film “Flight 93: A Reconstruction” (2002))
Contradiction unsolved
So if the account of Glick’s phone call is accurate then the only possible explanation is that the official timeline can’t be true. That Flight 93 didn’t crash at 10:03:11.
If one assumes that the attacks started at around 10:01 (as Glick’s phone call indicates) and not 9:57 and 9:58 then all of a sudden all the bizarre contradictions that have been mentioned are miraculously solved.
Passenger Elisabeth Wainio said on the phone:
"They're getting ready to break into the cockpit. I have to go. I love you. Good-bye."
She hung up. It was just past ten. (!) (my comment)
(p. 242)
Conclusion
Postponing the beginning of the attack by about three minutes it seems reasonable to assume an impact time of 10:06. And surprisingly this is also what the seismic recordings indicate.
Is there the possibility that the Commission simply didn’t work accurately enough?
Their explanation for the impact time is:
“United 93 crashed in Pennsylvania at 10:03:11, 125 miles from Washington D.C. The precise crash time has been the subject of some dispute. The 10:03:11 impact time is supported by previous National Transportation Safety Board analysis and by evidence from the Commission staff’s analysis of radar, flight data recorder, the cockpit voice recorder, infrared satellite data, and air traffic control transmission”
(p. 30)
But how can the analysis of theses sources lead to a wrong impact time? It seems very reasonable to assume that the Commission most likely did a cover up. Or in plain English: It’s simply a lie.
As the government always insisted after 9/11 that the impact time was 10:03 and never explained the contradiction to the seismic data it seems sensible to believe that the Commission changed the time of impact favouring the wish of the government.
As far as I can see this might be the very first time that a lie of the Commission can be proven.
So the only question remains: Why did the Commission decide to cover up the last three minutes of Flight 93? Maybe the explanation is to be found on the cockpit recording. The recordings which are not publicly released.
This text is the result of the work of several researchers to whom I owe my special thanks: woody box, seatnineb (great findings!), stickdog and k-robjoe.
Jere Longman: Among the Heroes, Pocket Books 2003.