Past NORAD interception times

[ProfessorPlum]

So, I've read some parts of the commission report. They fail to say why no planes were able to intercept these hijacked airliners.

They make a big deal out of the fact that the transponders were turned off. Somehow, you'd think that in preparing for possible hijacking situations, they could account for that somehow.

What I'd like to know is: How does the time they had to intercept these four planes jive with their response at times in the past?

My sense is that what happened in 9/11 just couldn't really occur. That it was an impossibility, because our defenses are set up to counter a situation like that. And that therefore, our defenses were down, for some as yet unexplained (and unexplored) reason.

Can anyone help me with that?

Either a) we really were vulnerable to attacks like this, and no on in our government ever took into account this kind of attack (how would we guess that the vicious fiends would TURN OFF THE TRANSPONDERS????) or b) NORAD and our defenses were somehow deliberately not really working that well.

Sorry for the lateness of coming to this forum - I'm sure this has been discussed at length before, but your help is appreciated.

[impe]

1. Payne Stewart's Plane

is the textbook case of our military responding to wayward aircraft... and it was just a matter of minutes.

Transponders are a meaningless argument for why the ATC and military did not respond, even when turned off, the planes
continue to appear on radar, our own resident ATC describes the scenario "as routine".

On 9/11 there were simultaneous war games being performed that morning, the theory presented is that they
weren't able to determine between the real and imagined threats....

Or, Military was ordered to stand down.

I tend to believe the war games confusion.

[gbwarming]

3. It was ~80 minutes

The time is often misreported because the loss of communication was reported in EDT and the intercept in CDT.
http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/AAB0001.pdf

I haven't ever seen data on typical intercept times posted here. Someone will surely post that NORAD made 62 intercepts, but the times and situations are not explained. I'd like to see those numbers too.

[tngledwebb]

2. You got 'Cognitive Dissonance'

and the Commission is either covering up the biggest and most unbelievable military failure in history, or something much worse: Government and media involvement. Read the New Pearl Harbor, research the DU 9/11 forums, decide for yourself. (Btw, I think you meant 'jibe' not 'jive', but I may be mistaken.)

[ProfessorPlum]

4. You gotta problem with "jive"?

You're right - jibe. :)

I have been doing some research into this, but credible sources for actually data are hard to find.

And I've been having cognitive dissonance on this subject for some time now. I thought for sure some kind of plausible explanation for our failures on 9/11 would be in the report, but the commission seemed to just document the failures and offer no context or explanation for them.

The two options you've outlined are indeed the only choices. My only questions regard just how "unbelievable" the military failure actually was.

[tngledwebb]

5. Nothing jibes in Official Reports,

but they are jiving us. Total military failure, massive incompotence, being caught with our radars turned round, box cutters,all of it is incredible. Now, look the faces of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Perle and ask yourself what crimes would these men not commit. Think on the past four years and be afraid for the people of the world.

[MercutioATC]

7. Prof, I responded to your PM about this...

Feel free to use it if you think it clarifies anything.


BTW, Great to see you again!

[stickdog]

6. I've never been able to find this data, but NORAD's mission was to

have planes up within 5 minutes of being informed of any potential hijacking.

[John Doe II]

8. I just wonder

Why does the Commission not adress with a single word the huge contradiction between the official NORAD timeline from September 18, 2001, the time given at the hearing in May 2003 and finally the time given in their Report.

[Robb]

9. Here's a 5-minute interception from 1996

...I haven't read it in awhile, but it might offer some context.

http://www.hermanos.org/Doss-Tab%20B.htm