Osama did NOT do 9-11, or we'd be hunting him down relentlessly

[mopaul]

no one, to this date, had proven to me that osama and al qaeda did nine eleven. in fact, it looks more and more like cheney and his PNAC pals did it. the authors of PNAC, to name a few, jeb bush, william kristol, perle, wolfowitz, rumsfeld, et. al.

the fact that osama was blamed within seconds of the attack and that bush swore he'd 'git im' dead or alive' and then totally abandoned the hunt and stopped speaking the name of osama utterly PROVES it in my mind.

and the fact that bush sucked every bit of benefit he could out of the tragedy and kicked off the fourth reich for grandpa prescott, and FOUGHT the investigation for two years, and threatened tom daschle with death if he pursued it, PROVES it in my mind.

NOT ONCE did cheney say that we'd hunt down osama and bring him to justice in tuesday's debate. but insisted again, against all proof that saddam did it. in my mind, this PROVES cheney, and not osama murdered 3,000 innocents in n.y. and d.c.

but then, i'm a raving lunatic at this point, so you can't trust anything i spew.

[Aunt Anti-bush]

1. I'm starting to feel the same way.

Actually, at first I thought LIHOP or worse, MIHOP was just a little ludicrous. Unfortunately, the more pieces of the puzzle that fall into place, the more I'm beginning to think they did MIHOP. At the very least, I am totally convinced they LIHOP, but it is starting to seem as if they designed this entire thing. Mopaul, you may be a raving lunatic at this point, but at least you're not alone.

[mopaul]

2. nothing worse than a lonely loonie.....thanks ad............n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I've felt that 911 was an excuse

to persue the PNAC's agenda. There was no way the American people would go into Iraq without it. And the bonus was that Muslims were demonized by the rw "Christian" loonies who make up a core part of Bush's base.

[Sterling]

4. Agree %100

Just look at the way the Afghan war was comducted. They sent like 5 troops and hired some goat herders to mop up the Taliban. Then there is that "Airlift of Evil" article where our guys shipped out a bunch of Osama's boys to Pak. Yes it's a big farce that much is obvious.

[Mikimouse]

5. "You may be right!

I may be crazy; But it just might be a lunatic you're looking for..."

I have questioned the origins of the attacks ever since they happened. The Osama thing just never added up for me. I'm with you, Mo!:bounce: :hi: :crazy:

[porphyrian]

6. My wife reminded me recently...

...that, on the day of 9/11, I was asking out loud who would benefit from such an attack, and the Bush administration was the only group I could think of. With all that's happened since, that answer is still true, though you could also add the oil cartels and Middle Eastern terrorists. When is Saudi Arabia going to pay for the actions of its people, again? Pakistan? Afghani warlords?

[rfranklin]

7. If Osama did it, it was a big favor for the Bush junta...

and they should be thanking him.

[G_j]

8. Guess its time to remember operation Northwoods again..

A revealing ABC news article begins, "In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba." The article goes on to say that the plans, code-named Operation Northwoods, were approved in writing by the top US military chiefs. These plans even proposed that the US military secretly blow up an American ship and hijack US planes as a false pretext for war. Does this ring a bell? Don't miss this disturbing article on the ABC website at: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html

The www.WantToKnow.info team presents this information to inspire in you a desire to strengthen democracy and to build a better world together. Our website focuses on providing reliable, verifiable facts which are being hidden from public view. By spreading this important information, each of us can make a difference.

To read the original declassified Operation Northwoods documents posted on the National Security Archive of George Washington University, see http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf If you don't have time to read the 15-page declassified report, take a look at the key excerpts below. We invite you to then ask yourself, is it beyond comprehension that this same kind of thinking and planning could have led to 9/11?

Remember that these documents were approved in writing by the Joint Chiefs of Staff—the top generals of each branch of the US armed forces—and submitted to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara in 1962, though never acted upon. The plans were classified top secret so that the American public would not know how it was being manipulated. They came to light only because of a Freedom of Information Act request in the late 1990s. By going to http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/foi/ you can request these documents yourself from the US Department of Defense.


Excerpts from Operation Northwoods Documents

Page 1 of File (Memorandum)

13 March 1962


MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE

Subject: Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba



The Joint Chiefs of Staff have considered the attached Memorandum for the Chief of Operations, Cuba Project, which responds to a request of that office for brief but precise description of pretexts which could provide justification for US military intervention in Cuba. It is assumed that a single agency will be given the primary responsibility for developing military and para-military aspects of the basic plan. It is recommended that this responsibility for both overt and covert military operations be assigned the Joint Chiefs of Staff.



Page 5 of File (page 2 of Joint Chiefs report)



World opinion, and the United Nations forum should be favorably affected by developing the international image of the Cuban government as rash and irresponsible, and as an alarming and unpredictable threat to the peace of the Western Hemisphere.



Page 10-11 of File (page 7-8 of Joint Chiefs report)



A series of well coordinated incidents will be planned to take place in and around Guantanamo to give genuine appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces.

(1) Start rumors (many). Use clandestine radio.
(2) Land friendly Cubans in uniform “over-the-fence” to stage attack on base.
(3) Capture Cuban (friendly) saboteurs inside the base.
(4) Start riots near the base main gate (friendly Cubans).
(5) Blow up ammunition inside the base: start fires.
(6) Burn aircraft on air base (sabotage).
(7) Lob mortar shells from outside of base into base.
(8) Capture assault teams approaching from the sea or vicinity of Guantanamo City.
(9) Capture militia group which storms base.
(10) Sabotage ship in harbor; large fires – naphthalene.
(11) Sink ship near harbor entrance. Conduct funerals for mock-victims.



We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation.



We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.

Page 12 of File (page 9 of Joint Chiefs report)

Use of MIG type aircraft by US pilots could provide additional provocation. Attacks on surface shipping and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type planes would be useful as complementary actions. Reasonable copies of the MIG could be produced from US resources in about three months.

Page 13 of File (page 10 of Joint Chiefs report)

Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft should appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the government of Cuba.

It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday.

An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At the designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual aircraft would be converted to a drone.

The drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will be transmitting on the international distress frequency a “MAY DAY” message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal.

Note from WantToKnow.info:



Remember that these and other government leaders think of this like a chess game. Sometimes you have to sacrifice your own in order to win the game. As a further example of this, Zbigniew Brzezinski, former US National Security Advisor and co-founder with David Rockefeller of the Trilateral Commission, gave his 1997 book the title The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives. In this seminal book on American foreign policy in the coming century, Brzezinksi states that because of popular resistance to US military expansionism, his ambitious strategy for "American global primacy" can’t be implemented "except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." (The Grand Chessboard page 211).


Consider also that in September 2000, a neo-conservative think-tank named Project for the New American Century (PNAC) published a "blueprint for maintaining global US preeminence and shaping the international security order in line with American principles and interests." Written before the 2000 Presidential election, this revealing report was commissioned by future Vice President Cheney, future Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, future Deputy Defense Secretary Wolfowitz, and Florida Governor Jeb Bush. The report shows that the Bush administration intended to take military control of Persian Gulf oil whether or not Saddam Hussein was in power. It advocates "regime change" in China, North Korea, Libya, Syria, and Iran.

Considering the above information, is it beyond comprehension that tactics similar to Operation Northwoods might have been used in relation to the 9/11 attacks in order to create "a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat?" Could 9/11 have been the pretext upon which to build a War on Terror in order to "maintain global US preeminence?"

[TakeOneLeaveTwo]

26. Don't forget Pearl Harbor!

They made it look like Japan bombed it and THEN went and invaded GERMANY! Germany was invaded for an attack from Japan? What was up with that? That reeked just like invading Iraq when we were attacked by Afghanistan!

[Skittles]

29. we were not attacked by Afghanistan

NONE of the hijackers were from Afghanistan - most of them were from SAUDI ARABIA.

[Sterling]

87. Never mind Germany declared war on the US not the other way around.

I wish people would read a book or two before trying to teach others about history.

[rooboy]

9. 100% agree... and I think about that fact every day. n/t

[Disturbed]

10. Got my tinfoil hat on.

I have posted for years that Osama is a deep cover CIA asset. None of his group know this, of course. Who benefited most is always the first quesition in my view. When I was on other boards that had Right Wingers on them I got roasted when I posted these type of comments.

[Dorian Gray]

35. Yeah, and then

Osama and Laurence Fishburn were walking the city streets together, shooting drugs, and infiltrating street gangs, all in the name of justice.

(Sorry... Couldn't resist after the "deep Cover" comment.)

[Perky]

11. Oh grow up...just grow the $@%#$ up!!

Flame away...but Osama even has siad he was responsible. I thing PNAC is misguided and centrainly imperialistic...vut give this up already,

PNAC no more sponsored 9/11 then Bill CLinton Murdered Vince Foster to cove his ass on Whitewater!

[Don Claybrook]

13. What makes this a childish position?

Is the Fat Osama video the proof you cite, combined with the well-established trustworthiness of the Bush Administration?

Or was it Osama just cuz, like, it had to be him?

[mopaul]

14. show me where osama claimed responsibility for 9-11

was it a grainy old video tape per chance? not proof.

and i am grown up.

[vincent_vega_lives]

93. Would you like a signed and notorized document?

Even then you won't buy it, so whats the point?

[leftofthedial]

78. prove that osama said that he did it

[Perky]

12. Oh grow up...just grow the $@%#$ up!!

Flame away...but Osama even has siad he was responsible. I thing PNAC is misguided and centrainly imperialistic...vut give this up already,

PNAC no more sponsored 9/11 then Bill CLinton Murdered Vince Foster to cove his ass on Whitewater!

[Forkboy]

42. Just as obnoxious as the first time

[noiretextatique]

64. if you recall, nothing came of the whitewater investigation

well...except a lot of taxpayer money went down the drain. for you and other "grown-ups": why did bush, inc drag their feet on investigating 911? the is only one logical answer.

[porkrind]

15. I agree. This sucks.

:(

[TaleWgnDg]

16. HOLY GEORGE W !!!

. . . . . . .

[demnan]

17. Perhaps we'll never know

and you have to ask, why will we never know? We will never know because the Bush administration has proceeded to cover up, postpone and classify the important parts of the investigation. Also we'll never know because Osama's family was ushered out of the country two days after 9/11 when noone else in the country was even flying. And we'll never know because the hunt for Osama has been given up. These facts alone, which are indisputable, should be enough to impeach this entire Administration.

[demnan]

18. I wanted to make an additional post on this subject

We are now being told that al Queda will try to disrupt the November election. Watch what happens at this point. If what happens close to the election benefits the Bush administration, and it is terrorism, then you have to ask these questions. After a second attack, will these questions appear so far-fetched?

[nonconformist]

19. A couple of years ago I would have said you were crazy

Today? I say scoot over, make room for me on the bus to the loony bin.

It's tinfoil, but man I can't ignore all the signs that point to MIHOP. My gut has told me that something has been off about the whole thing right from the start - and I've yet to see any real evidence that makes me conclusively think the other way, sadly.

[leftofthedial]

79. the damning thing is that we have never seen any evidence

of anything--period.

they just announced the cover story and it has become the de facto "truth."

no one has been brought to trial. why?

[OneTwentyoNine]

20. Who did the Cole then ,PNAC guys to make Clinton look bad?

Sorry can't go along on this one. OBL was abandoned because he wasn't sitting in the country Bush wanted to invade,rape and plunder. Plain and simple...

David

[flobee1kenobi]

21. Perky^ is correct

In one of OBL's "Home Movies" he states that it was his idea, but bushco are equally to blame for not bringing him to justice.

[Sterling]

22. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1719399&mesg_id=1719399

[skypilot]

34. It's interesting...

...how little we've seen of that video. They trotted it out a couple times a few years ago and then it pretty much vanished. They probably don't want people to take a really good look at it and see what is revealed in those photos you posted.

[vincent_vega_lives]

95. Pretty sure that was explained

In a less snarky way. Nothing to do with "food". Guy's got medical issues, nose is the same, just result of bloating.

There are other stills from that video that show his eyes better. The eyes don't change...notice how you only ever see THIS still.

[Sterling]

23. Who did it?

I can't imagine anyone in the ME wanting to hurt our troops. It had to be one guy responsible for every attack on us in the 90's right.

And that guy has to be a guy that used to be a close ally and CIA asset and his family still are allies of the most powerful people in our country.

Nothing to see here, just move along plz.

PS I would not rule out the "PNAC guys" having it done to
A make Clinton look bad
b Make Clinton take a more aggressive pro military ME stance
c set the stage for OBL, 911 and the MYTH of AL-CIA-DUH

Have you ever asked yourself why Bush 1 sent troops to Somalia as a lame Duck prez where they were ambushed by guys working for Osama according to the US GOV? Seriously how many times has a Republican prez sent troops to help black people?

[Solomon]

27. You guys kill me. Anybody who believes that a man sitting in a cave

on the other side of the world playing on a laptop pulled off 9-11 is a candidate for the looney bin.

Sure. Bin Laden did it. He must be a wizard. Does he have magical powers? He must have put a spell on our air defenses to make them stand down. Oh yeah, I forgot, they were "asleep at the switch" although they train and do drills on what to do everyday.

Maybe Bin Laden hypnotized our military. And why hasn't he ordered the most simplest of attacks here in america, something like bombing a restaurant? Do you realize the havoc that would be created here if they bombed one restaurant? Oh yeah, I forgot. Bin Laden doesn't play on such small levels. They wait ten years and pull off something spectacular because he's an ego maniac.

Why is it that Bin Laden's statement that he had nothing to do with 9-11 is always forgotten or ignored? People remember the fake videotape, but not the other stuff.

I guess he must have e-mailed his friends to tell them about making a killing on the stock market while he was planning the thing. Don't want to not make money off the operation, you know.

Maybe our boys got the stock tip and didn't connect two and two together. They got that tip, but not the others. I'm still waiting for them to tell us who made the money.

Wonder why they haven't traced the stock killing back to Bin Laden too? That's an easy enough lie isn't it. Oh, yeah. I forgot. That's something that can be confirmed by records. Better not try that one.

Is there any villain in history as omnipotent as Bin Laden? He can make guys who can't even drive cars master the intricacies of flying the hell out of big jumbo airliners. Wonder why the pilots bothered to take flying lessons. Couldn't Bin Laden just have snapped his fingers and decreed that they now know how to fly jumbo airliners?

On second thought, if he's so powerful, why bother to send pilots at all? Why doesn't he just hypnotize all our commercial pilots and make them the suicide bombers? Surely he can do that. The great and powerful oz, er, I mean, ali baba, er, I mean, Bin Laden.

[noiretextatique]

65. Is there any villain in history as omnipotent as Bin Laden? YES

saddam hussein. he brillantly tricked the US into thinking he had WMDs...or that he would get them if sanctions were lifted...or something :shrug: he ranks right up there with OBL.

[stickdog]

84. SADDAM & OSAMA

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/02/02sfunhouse.phtml

[vincent_vega_lives]

94. So Al Quaida doesn't exist?

All this is just a front for the Bush administration?

Timeline: Al-Qaeda

1988
AlQaeda founded in Afghanistan by Osama Bin Laden
As Soviet troops withdraw from Afghanistan Osama Bin Laden and other Arab fighters in the country form alQaeda which in Arabic means quotthe basequot. The network begins looking for new jihads holy wars.

1991
Bin Laden moves to Sudan where he sets up training camps
Sudan becomes alQaeda's base for business operations and preparations for jihad. From here a number of attacks on Western targets are alleged to have been organised or supported. Bin Laden stays in the African country for five years. During this time it is believed he begins a search for nuclear material.

26 February, 1993
Bomb explodes at the World Trade Center in New York
Six people are killed and more than 1000 injured by a 500kg bomb. AlQaeda's involvement is unclear but some analysts believe that after the attack the group sought out the plotter Ramzi Yousef and offered him money. Yousef is serving a life sentence for the attack. His uncle Khalid Sheikh Mohammed currently in custody is thought to have helped plan the 11 September attacks.

4 October, 1993
Eighteen US servicemen killed in Somalia
Members of a Somali militia shoot down two Black Hawk helicopters. The US believes that alQaeda fighters helped train those responsible for the incident in which 18 American servicemen were killed.

May, 1996
Bin Laden leaves Sudan and returns to Afghanistan
In the mid1990s Sudan comes under growing international pressure to expel Osama Bin Laden. It is not clear whether he is actually forced to leave the African country but in May 1996 he returns to Afghanistan.

25 June, 1996
US military base in Saudi bombed 19 servicemen killed
A bomb rips through a US military housing complex near Dhahran Saudi Arabia killing 19 Americans. The US believes alQaeda may have been involved in this attack which has been blamed on the militant Hezbollah group.

22 February, 1998
Bin Laden issues fatwa calling for attacks on US citizens
A statement signed by Bin Laden and four of his associates calls for the killing of Americans saying it is the quotindividual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do itquot.

7 August, 1998
US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania bombed
More than 220 people are killed when lorries laden with bombs drove into the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. On 20 August the US retaliates with air strikes against alleged training camps in Sudan and Afghanistan. Bin Laden is later indicted by a US court for the bombings in East Africa.

12 October, 2000
Attack on US warship in Yemen kills 17 sailors
Two suicide attackers ram a boat carrying explosives into the USS Cole in Aden port killing 17 American sailors. In 2004 six suspected alQaeda militants are charged in connection with the attack by a Yemeni court.

11 September, 2001
The worst attack on US soil kills about 3000 people
Nineteen alQaeda suspects hijack four planes and fly them into the World Trade Center in New York the Pentagon in Washington and a field in Pennsylvania. Six weeks later the US launches attacks on Afghanistan from where Bin Laden has been operating. After the war hundreds of suspected alQaeda fighters are sent to America's base in Guantanamo Bay Cuba where they are held in US custody.

12 December, 2001
First alQaeda suspect charged over 911 in the US
A French citizen of Moroccan origin is charged with conspiring with Osama Bin Laden and other suspects to kill thousands of Americans in the 11 September attacks. Zacarias Moussaoui was detained in the US on immigration charges in August after he aroused suspicion at a Minnesota flight school where he sought training. He admits being a member of alQaeda but denies involvement in the plot to hijack planes and crash them.

14 December, 2001
US releases Bin Laden 911 video
The US government releases a video which it says proves that Osama Bin Laden masterminded the 11 September attacks. In the West the tape is widely seen as strengthening the case against Bin Laden. In the Islamic world there is widespread scepticism and some claims that it is a fake.

23 December, 2001
Briton held after trying to blow up plane
A British man is arrested on a flight from Paris to Miami after trying to blow up the plane with explosives hidden in his shoes. During his trial in the US Richard Reid pledged allegiance to Osama Bin Laden. He is now serving a life sentence.

22 March, 2002
Senior alQaeda member captured in Pakistan
Abu Zubaydah believed to have served as Osama Bin Laden's field commander and chief recruiter is captured during a raid on a house in Pakistan. Number three on America's list of most wanted alQaeda suspects he is then handed over to the US authorities.

11 April, 2002
Blast at Tunisian synagogue kills 17 people
A fuel tanker is blown up outside a synagogue on the Tunisian island of Djerba killing 19 people including 14 German tourists. An alQaeda spokesman later says the organisation was behind the suicide attack.

11 June, 2002
Dirty bomb plot foiled says US
The US authorities announce the arrest of an American citizen they accuse of planning to build and detonate a bomb containing radioactive material. Jose Padilla was detained on 8 May at Chicago airport after arriving from Pakistan.

11 September, 2002
911 plotter captured in Pakistan
Ramzi Binalshibh is arrested in Karachi on the anniversary of the attacks on America. He is accused of being a leading member of alQaeda and one of the main planners of the 11 September attacks.

12 October, 2002
Bomb attacks on Bali nightclubs kill 202
Two bombs rip through a busy nightclub area in the Balinese town of Kuta killing 202 people most of them foreign tourists. The Indonesian authorities believe the attacks were carried out by the South East Asian militant network Jemaah Islamiah which is said to have links to alQaeda.

22 October, 2002
First 911 trial opens in Germany
Mounir alMotassadek a Moroccan citizen goes on trial in Hamburg accused of membership of a terrorist cell and of being an accessory to the murder of more than 3000 people. He denies any knowledge of plans to launch the attacks. In 2003 he is found guilty of assisting the hijackers and sentenced to 12 years in jail. Another court later orders a retrial.

28 November, 2002
Israeli targets come under attack in Kenya
Sixteen people including three suicide bombers are killed in a blast at an Israeliowned hotel in Mombasa. A missile fired at an Israeli plane misses its target. A message on a website purporting to come from alQaeda says the group carried out the attack.

1 March, 2003
AlQaeda kingpin captured
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed thought to be one of alQaeda's most senior leaders is arrested in a joint PakistaniCIA operation near Islamabad. The US believes he helped plan the 11 September attacks.

12 May, 2003
Dozens killed in Saudi bombings
At least 34 people are killed in a series of bomb attacks in Saudi Arabia's capital Riyadh. The targets are luxury compounds housing foreign nationals and a USSaudi office. AlQaeda is the prime suspect Washington and Riyadh say. It is the first in a string of attacks over successive months in Saudi Arabia.

16 May, 2003
Morocco rocked by suicide attacks
Bomb attacks in Casablanca kill 45 people including 12 attackers. Targets include a Spanish restaurant a fivestar hotel a Jewish community centre and the Belgian consulate. Four men later sentenced to death for the attacks are said by the Moroccan authorities to be members of the Salafia Jihadia widely believed to be linked to alQaeda.

27 June, 2003
Mastermind of Riyadh attacks arrested
The man suspected of masterminding the series of bombings in Riyadh is detained in Saudi Arabia. The arrest of Ali Abdul Rahman alGhamdi also known as Abu Bakr alAzdi is described as a major blow to alQaeda's operations in Saudi Arabia. He was number two on the list of mostwanted suspects in connection with the 12 May attacks.

15 December, 2003
Suicide bombers hit two Turkish synagogues
At least 23 people are killed and more than 300 injured in two devastating suicide attacks on synagogues in Istanbul. The government blames alQaeda for the attacks.

20 December, 2003
Two bomb attacks on British interests in Turkey
Attacks on the British Consulate and the HSBC bank offices in Istanbul leave 27 people dead and more than 450 wounded. There are separate claims of responsibility from two allegedly alQaeda connected groups.

9 February, 2004
US uncovers alQaeda plans for Iraq violence
US officials say they have uncovered what they believe is a plot by an alQaedalinked militant Abu Musab alZarqawi to stir up sectarian violence in Iraq.

11 March, 2004
Madrid rocked by deadly train bombings
Ten bombs explode on four packed earlymorning commuter trains in Madrid killing 191 people and leaving at least 1800 injured. Spanish officials later say their investigations are focusing on the Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group which is said to support alQaeda's war against the West.

15 April, 2004
Bin Laden offers Europe truce
An audio tape purported to be from Osama Bin Laden is broadcast. In it he offers Europe a truce if it quotstops attacking Muslimsquot and withdraws all its troops from Muslim countries.

17 May, 2004
Top Iraqi official killed in suicide attack
Ezzedine Salim head of the Iraqi Governing Council is killed when a bomber blows himself up near the headquarters of the USled coalition in Baghdad. A group linked to alQaeda suspect Abu Musab alZarqawi says it carried out the attack. US officials believe Zarqawi is behind a number of attacks in Iraq and was responsible for the beheading of a US hostage.

29 May, 2004
Militant shooting spree and siege kill 22 in Saudi Arabia
Gumen allegedly from a group linked to alQaeda attack company offices in the eastern city of Khobar killing a number of people. The militants then move to the Oasis housing compound where they seize several dozen people mostly expatriates. The 25hour crisis ends on 30 May when Saudi commandos storm the housing complex.

18 June, 2004
US engineer beheaded in Saudi Arabia
Suspected AlQaeda militants in Saudi Arabia behead Paul Johnson after holding him hostage for a week. The purported head of alQaeda in the country Abdul Aziz alMuqrin is later killed by security forces.

30 July, 2004
Embassy bombings suspect arrest announced
The arrest of a key suspect in the bombings of two US embassies in East Africa in 1998 is announced by Pakistani officials. Days after Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani's capture Pakistan confirms the arrest of another man believed to be an alQaeda computer and communications expert.

26 September, 2004
Pakistan alQaeda suspect killed
Pakistani police shoot dead suspected alQaeda militant Amjad Farooqi in a twohour gun battle. Farooqi was wanted in connection with the murder of US journalist Daniel Pearl and attempts to kill Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf. He was said to be a close associate of Abu Faraj alLibbi described as the operational chief of alQaeda in the region.

29 September, 2004
US warship bombers given death sentence
A Yemeni court sentences Abd alRahim alNashiri and Jamal Mohammed alBadawi to death over the bomb attack on the USS Cole which killed 17 people in 2000. Four others are given between five and 10 years in jail for the attack.

[psychopomp]

102. That sums up the absurdity

of it all quite well.

:thumbsup:

[Dorian Gray]

38. Every horror that ever

happened in the world, since the dawn of time, was a result of the PNAC's conspiracy to gain power! Those meteroites that killed out the dinosaurs? PNAC! Pearl Harbour? PNAC! Mount Vesuvius? The PNAC!

Sorry, guys, but I do think that this is a bit over the top. Though I share the dislike and the distaste for the current President, I just can't fathom that he had anything to do with the greatest CRIME perpetrated against our country in our life-times. There is evil in this world. Bush and Cheney may be evil themselves. But there are other people who are capable of blindly hating us so much that they would pool all their resources to attack us.

[Forkboy]

44. No one ever said that

try debating the actual theory.

[radwriter0555]

41. Bin Laden ADMITTED To bombing the Cole... but DENIED perping

the WTC attack.

[ladjf]

24. I'm in the MIHOP camp or LIHOP at the very least.

If the truth about this were to ever be proved and the criminals brought to justice, it would have a cleansing, reforming effect on the U.S. that would improve the quality of life for the next hundred years. However, our political drama isn't likely to turn out so cleanly. But, if we are able to overcome the political obstacles and kick Bush out in November, it would be a colossal step in the right direction.

The next step would be to move away from "faith based" politics to "reason based" politics. The stakes are too high to play around with philosophies based on fantasies.

[Brewman_Jax]

25. Those 19 mug shots showed up in a hurry

the only way that would happen is that they knew who they were in advance.

Too many things went wrong at the same time to chalk this up to coincidence or bad protocols.

I'll be on the tin-foil loony bus with you. :dunce:

[mmonk]

28. The administration is not interested in terrorism

other than fear rhetoric to give them more power. Their goal is the same as it always has been; the PNAC plan. That being said, al Queda needs to be dealt with since they train terrorists that keep attacking us. The plans to take care of them originally came out of the conclusions reached concerning the Cole.

[radwriter0555]

30. The FBI's web site on OBL doesn't list 911 as part of why he's one of

their most wanted.

And, as I always say, OBL specificially denied he was involved in 911. NO one ever actually, literally and specifically took credit.

[mopaul]

31. &, there's never been a trial or tribunal, no solid proof whatever

Kerry had to FORCE bush to speak the unspeakable name in public, something bush will hold against him forever. bush doesn't even want to talk about osama. yet he stated that he knew that's who attacked us, and went right after saddam and the mass slaughter began.

[RH]

90. There was trial

in Hamburg.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52849-2004Aug9.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/08/14/germany.terrortrial.ap/

[foreigncorrespondent]

32. Well said, mopaul!

I agree 100% with you! :)

[mopaul]

33. good to hear from you!.............n/t

[DemonFighterLives]

36. Nothing solved

We had the phony Osama tape. About the same time we had an Osama tape calling Saddam names- they had no love for each other as the administration has continually tried to portray. We've weathered 27 missing pages from the 911 investigation and was it 2,000 missing pages from the Iraqi weapons disclosures. These are signs of corruption.
What will it take to wake up the American people? I feel if we ever get to the bottom of the 911 debacle, we will also solve a few other lingering enigmas (perhaps even the Kennedy murder).

[ElsewheresDaughter]

37. i'm a RAVING lunatic myself

:yourock:

[artboy]

39. I just read this entire thread

and I must say, I'm more motivated to do further research to form my own opinion....This just blows me away...I have thought some of the same things said here, just never really thought there were many folks out there that felt the same way.

Thanks to all..for the links to help me in forming a case..at least it will provide me with ammunition to have an intelligent conversation with someone..and me not just spouting off.

wow!:wow:

I guess that BUS is pretty full now!:tinfoilhat:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

40. plenty of room for 1 more on the MIHOP bus and WELCOME to DU you......

:hi: :toast:

[reprobate]

43. Don't worry. There's a second section of the bus ready to load.

Don' push, plenty of seats.

I don't see how any inquiring mind with access to the facts can conclude that the administration did NOT purpetrate the entire scheme as an excuse to invade iraq, which was their primary goal. Just read the PNAC documents and you'll see the connection to the "New American PEarl Harbor" as a motivation.

But it doesn't even require proof to believe they did it. Just use the smell test on the concept that EVERY gov't agency and dept. that was supposed to detect and protect us from terra failed in their mission and as a result the plan worked and the WTC and pentagon were hit. It seems to me that in all the links in the chain of command you would expect one or two to fail, but for all to fail just smell a bit fishy.

And then look at the bush Modus Operandi. Their standard operation is to obscure, lie, and scapegoat. Fits right in.

My wish for the last four years has been that the administration be caught and punished for Selection 2000. I have since modified my position and suggest that the problems with Selection 2000 were just the means by which they could come to office and put their plan into motion. There are many more and bigger crims than stealing an election (altho a vioce keeps telling me that NOTHING is worse than stealing an election). This is the one case in which I agree with capital punishment. Their crimes are so abhorant that simple life in prison doesn't come close.

The world will be a better place without Bush & Co.

[DemonFighterLives]

45. We'll pull out the big bus

Welcome aboard.

[TNOE]

46. Here's some places to get started

there is ALOT of incriminating evidence - not against Osama - but agaisnt Bush/Cheney:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/foreignwarnings.html

EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS OF EXPLOSIONS
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/eyewitness.html

INSURANCE SCAM

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/WTC312A.html

TERRORISM CLAUSE IN WTC

http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200109/msg00162.html

WTC - HISTORY
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/7wtc.html

SEPTEMBER 10

Newseek journalists Evan Thomas and Mark Hosenball reported on Septemberm24, 2001 that a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for September 11, 2001, apparently because of security concerns. Newsweek removed the story from the internet but you can read the transcript at the url below. Here is the relevant excerpt....

"On Sept. 10, NEWSWEEK has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns." (See yellow highlighted section)
http://www.freepressinternational.com/sept10.html

WARNINGS THAT THE DANGER WOULD COME FROM THE AIR

BRITAIN, WARNING #1: Al-Qaeda is planning to use aircraft in "unconventional ways", "possibly as flying bombs"

1999 (C): MI6, the British intelligence agency, gives a secret report to liaison staff at the US embassy in London. The reports states that al-Qaeda has plans to use "commercial aircraft" in "unconventional ways", "possibly as flying bombs."

BRITAIN, WARNING #3: An Al-Qaeda attack will involve multiple hijackings

Early August 2001 (C): Britain gives the US another warning about an al-Qaeda attack. The previous British warning (see July 16, 2001) was vague as to method, but this warning specifies multiple airplane hijackings. This warning is included in Bush's briefing on August 6.

CAYMAN ISLANDS, WARNING #2: Three al-Qaeda agents are part of a plot "organizing a major terrorist act against the US via an airline or airlines"

August 29, 2001: Three men from either Pakistan or Afghanistan living in the Cayman Islands are briefly arrested in June 2001 for discussing hijacking attacks in New York City (see June 4, 2001). On this day, a Cayman Islands radio station receives an unsigned letter claiming these same three men are agents of bin Laden. The anonymous author warns that they "are organizing a major terrorist act against the US via an airline or airlines." The letter is forwarded to a Cayman government official but no action is taken until after 9/11 and it isn't known when the US is informed. Many criminals and/or businesses use the Cayman Islands as a safe, no tax, no questions asked haven to keep their money. The author of the letter meets with the FBI shortly after 9/11, and claims his information was a "premonition of sorts." The three men are later arrested. Its unclear what has happened to them since their arrest. FTW

EGYPT, WARNING #1: An undercover agent learns 20 al-Qaeda agents are in the US, four have received flight training


http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/foreignwarnings.html

BUSH SR MET WITH BIN LADEN ON 9/11

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/041203metwithbinladen.html
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/index1c.html



MARVIN BUSH
http://anderson.ath.cx:8000/911/hj05.html

STOCK OPTION TRADING
http://www.rense.com/general46/911.html

PRIOR WTC FLIGHTS
http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2003_12_01_xymphora_archive.html#107284533382009522

Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG)
... Control Attempt , Tom Flocco, 14 July. Bush Knew: Conspiracy of Silence, Ian Woods, 4 July. The ISI-Bush Connection: Manipulation ...
www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CRG204A.html



BUSH FAMILY MACHINISMS
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/11/1546689.php

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/newsArticle.asp?id=1477

http://www.beachnet.com/~hoffman/Bush.html

WAR GAMES

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,786992,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,778070,00.html

[Jose Diablo]

56. There are many that believe 911 was an inside job

I keep looking at 'who benefits'. The only answer I have for 'who benefits is Bush et al.

I wear my tinfoil hat proudly, because I do think Bush and his pals did 911.

[ellie]

47. I agree with you mopaul

Do you remember hearing during the coverage of the attacks on 9/11, that Osama did not claim responsibility for the attack? I heard it as clear as day. It was early in the afternoon. I have never heard anyone mention it since. al Qaida seems to me to be a convenient boogeyman to trot out when necessary.

[Beam Me Up]

48. CHENEY IS PRIME SUSPECT: Here's what you need to know: <<READ THIS!!

IN BRIEF:

Rumsfeld and Cheney were principal actors in one of the most highly classified programs of the Reagan Administration. Under it U.S. officials furtively carried out detailed planning exercises for keeping the federal government running during and after a nuclear war with the Soviet Union.

>snip<

Ronald Reagan established the continuity-of-government program with a secret executive order. According to Robert McFarlane, who served for a time as Reagan's National Security Adviser, the President himself made the final decision about who would head each of the three teams. Within Reagan's National Security Council the "action officer" for the secret program was Oliver North, later the central figure in the Iran-contra scandal. Vice President George H.W. Bush was given the authority to supervise some of these efforts, which were run by a new government agency with a bland name: the National Program Office. It had its own building in the Washington area, run by a two-star general, and a secret budget adding up to hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Much of this money was spent on advanced communications equipment that would enable the teams to have secure conversations with U.S. military commanders. In fact, the few details that have previously come to light about the secret program, primarily from a 1991 CNN investigative report, stemmed from allegations of waste and abuses in awarding contracts to private companies, and claims that this equipment malfunctioned.

The exercises were usually scheduled during a congressional recess, so that Cheney would miss as little work on Capitol Hill as possible.

>snip<

There things stood until September 11, 2001, when Cheney and Rumsfeld suddenly began to act out parts of a script they had rehearsed years before. Operating from the underground shelter beneath the White House, called the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, Cheney told Bush to delay a planned flight back from Florida to Washington. At the Pentagon, Rumsfeld instructed a reluctant Wolfowitz to get out of town to the safety of one of the underground bunkers, which had been built to survive nuclear attack. Cheney also ordered House Speaker Dennis Hastert, other congressional leaders, and several Cabinet members (including Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman and Interior Secretary Gale Norton) evacuated to one of these secure facilities away from the capital. Explaining these actions a few days later, Cheney vaguely told NBC's Tim Russert, "We did a lot of planning during the Cold War with respect to the possibility of a nuclear incident." He did not mention the Reagan Administration program or the secret drills in which he and Rumsfeld had regularly practiced running the country.
http://p066.ezboard.com/fhoodlumsy2krumorsandpreparations.showNextMessage?topicID=868.topic

On page 14 of his Address to the San Francisco Commonwealth Club, August 31, 2004, Michael C. Ruppert names Vice President Dick Cheney as the prime suspect for the government's role in the events of 9/11:

For me, the pivotal evidence absolutely demonstrating direct government complicity in, and management of, the attacks was found in a number of undisputed, yet virtually unaddressed war games that I will show were being conducted, coordinated and/or controlled by Vice President Dick Cheney or his immediate staff on the morning of September 11th. The names of those wargames are known to include: Vigilant Guardian, Vigilant Warrior, Northern Guardian, Northern Vigilance, and Tripod II. All have been reported on by major press organizations relying on undisputed quotes from participating military personnel. They have also been confirmed by NORAD press releases. All, except for Northern Vigilance and Tripod II, had to do with hijacked airliners inside the continental United States, specifically within the Northeast Air Defense Sector where all four 9/11 hijackings occurred.

>snip<

There are many, many areas where the official account and the findings of the Kean Commission are contradicted by hard evidence, official records, mainstream news investigations and even sworn testimony. Both the Los Angeles Times and the New York Times have noted some of the lesser, but no less glaring, inconsistencies. In my book <"Crossing the Rubicon"> I will provide you with many more.

In my book I will make several key points:

1. I will name Richard Cheney as the prime suspect in the mass murders of 9/11 and will establish that, not only was he a planner in the attacks, but also that on the day of the attacks he was running a completely separate command, control and communications system which was superceding any orders being issued by the NMCC, or the White House Situation Room. To accomplish that end he relied on a redundant and superior communications system maintained by the US Secret Service in or near the presidential Emergency Operations Center – the bunker to which he and National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice were reportedly "rushed" after flight 175 struck the WTC's south tower. I will demonstrate that the Secret Service possessed radar screens which gave them, and the Vice President, whose side they never left, with real-time information as good as or better than that available to the Pentagon.

Also see:
"Richard Cheney <is> the prime suspect in the mass murders of 9/11"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2410375

[Jose Diablo]

63. Oliver North has a date with a noose

As does that 'fine Reagan appointed judge' Silberman. Yes the very same person that worked on Reagan's election during that election fraud scheme of selling arms to Iran in return for having the revolutionaries in Iran delay the release of the hostage embassy personnel to put Reagan in the White House became one of three appeal judges that set aside Ollie's conviction of lying in the Iran-Contra congressional investigation.

To tell the truth, when I think of 911, Iran-Contra, election fraud, the slaughter of thousands of Central Americans, giving China the secrets of the W88 suitcase nuke in exchange of China's SA-7 missile (because congress wouldn't allow missiles in Central America), drug running, Vietnam, Kennedy, MLK, RFK to name just a few, well I just become very very pissed-off.

Each of them deserves the gallows for the war they have conducted against us. They were supposed to be on America's side. When I think of how Ollie wrapped himself in the flag and prevaricated in the Iran-Contra congressional investigation, well I just become unglued.

[leftofthedial]

49. MIHOP

the accepted mythological cover story is ludicrous.

My only question is "Did Dickless Cheney sit there, joystick in hand, and personally guide the drones into the targets, or was it Rummie? Or Wolfmanowitz? We know the little bushturd was sitting there hoping they'd serve lemonade and cookies after he finished reading a WHOLE book for only the second time in his life. Cute goat! Or did they outsource the murder?"

[dansolo]

50. Not true

They just want to keep the public from being reminded how incompetant they are.

[Wind Dancer]

51. seemslikeadream posted this info yesterday!

I spent hours reading Peter Lance's timeline and fact sheets - certain people in the government didn't want to investigate any of these guys long before 9/11. I think some were CIA/FBI but I am not sure, I know we will never find out who did this until there is a real investigation.



Watch this interview on CSPAN
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:TgoOCeTh5DIJ:c-spa ...

Peter Lance, Author, "Cover Up": What the Government is Still Hiding

Talks about Patrick Fitzgerald U.S. Attorney working on the Joseph Wilson Plame case had been involved in the TWA case cover up

15:00 minutes into interview it gets interesting

Connects Oklahoma bombings

9/11 report a complete whitewash
http://www.cspan.org/VideoArchives.asp?CatCodePairs=,&A ...

Peter Lance, Author, "Cover Up"
Peter Lance, author of "Cover Up: What the Government is Still Hiding about the War on Terror," discusses information missed by the 9/11 Commission and the Bush administration in the investigations of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
9/27/2004: WASHINGTON, DC: 45 min.



COVER UP: WHAT THE GOVERNMENT
IS STILL HIDING ABOUT THE WAR ON TERROR

Writer's Write Interview
1115.org Interview
Court TV Catherine Crier Live Interview REAL MEDIA // WINDOWS MEDIA
Fox News Rita Cosby Interview REAL MEDIA // WINDOWS MEDIA
Bo Deitel Imus Interview Part One REAL MEDIA // WINDOWS MEDIA
Bo Deitel Imus Interview Part Two REAL MEDIA // WINDOWS MEDIA
Fox and Friends Interview Part One REAL MEDIA // WINDOWS MEDIA
Fox and Friends Interview Part Two REAL MEDIA // WINDOWS MEDIA
Up in the Air: Did terrorists destroy TWA Flight 800?
Warren Report-Watergate II: Cover Up Review
Did Yousef order airliner's destruction?
The failure of our protective intelligence
9/11 Commission Nixed al-Qaida Link to Flight 800?
Writer accuses FBI of obstruction, cover-up
COVER UP HITS #12 ON AMAZON.COM NON-FICTION BESTSELLER LIST
Connecting the dots S.B. Writer Peter Lance Dismisses 9/11 Commission Report in Cover Up

http://www.peterlance.com /


TWA Flight 800 and the 9/11 Commission Cover Up


TWA Flight 800 and the 9/11 Commission Cover Up: An Interview With Peter Lance
by Claire E. White (September, 2004)

Was the 9/11 Commission Report a cover up? Were we lied to when we were told that 9/11 was the first time that Al-Qaeda hijacked and destroyed an American jetliner? Five time Emmy® award-winning investigative journalist
Journalist Peter Lance
and bestselling author Peter Lance asserts just that in his blockbuster new book Cover Up: What the Government is Still Hiding About the War on Terror (HarperCollins). In his 2003 bestselling nonfiction work, 1000 Years for Revenge (HarperCollins), Lance laid bare the plotting and events that led to the terrorist attacks of 9/11. After reading 1000 Years for Revenge, Governor Kean, Co-Chairman of the 9/11 Commission, asked Peter Lance to testify in front of the Commission. His story of his experiences with the Commission and the 9/11 widows is absolutely fascinating.

So far, Lance's new book, Cover Up: What The Government Is Still Hiding About The War On Terror, a meticulously researched and entertainingly written expose, has been embraced by the right, the left and the middle. Partisan interests seem to see the facts that Lance has brought to light through the lens of their beliefs. Lance has already appeared on Fox News, CNN and many other major news programs to discuss his insights. Lance lays out the amazing blunders and cover ups which began in the Clinton Administration and which continue to this day with officials in the current Department of Justice. As a journalist, Lance says he is just following the trail of facts regardless of where they lead. He is adamant that "If we are truly to be safe, we have to de-politicize the debate over terrorism." But his trail of incendiary facts would seem to have some major political implications -- especially in an election year. Lance provides evidence that Ramzi Yousef, the Al-Qaeda perpetrator of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, was likely responsible for the crash of TWA Flight 800 in 1996, with the help of his uncle, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed -- the originator of the 9/11 plot. Lance also raises some disurbing questions about the events of 9/11 itself. For instance, it is not common knowledge that the morning of September 11, 2001, there were three war games simulations was taking place. One was being conducted near Dulles Airport in Washington to test the response of the National Reconnaissance Office in case a plane was flown into the NRO building. At the time of the attacks, two F-16s were actually in the air practicing bombing runs, within eight minutes flying time, yet they were never called by NORAD to intercept the attackers. The 9/11 Commission heard sworn testimony about these and many other facts, but failed to mention them in its Final Report which, generally speaking, did not place blame. In fact, much of the most important testimony was never made public, much to the anger of the "Jersey Girls," the 9/11 widows who lobbied for the creation of the 9/11 Commission.

Peter spoke with us about testifying in front of the 9/11 Commission and discusses some of the immensely disturbing facts he uncovered while writing Cover Up. He also addresses the growing threat of terrorism and why Americans need to be informed about the facts before the upcoming presidential election.

What was it like to testify in front of the 9/11 Commission?

This is a short question that will require a long answer. As one who had set out to do a book on the Commission’s work, my “testimony” before the Commission on March 15th was an eye opener.

......

I had sent my book to Governor Kean (the chairman) over Christmas and he had responded, saying that he wanted to hear my findings. I had only two conditions: first that I not be forced to reveal confidential sources and second, that my information be made a part of the permanent Commission record.
more
http://www.readersread.com/features/peterlance.htm

[Ezlivin]

52. Do you believe in UFOs?

Yeah, I know, big jump. But bear with me.

My hypothesis is that regardless of what facts you uncover about 9/11, it may never be enough to convince others or to change government policy.

Why?

I've asked the following question to dozens of people. Their answer is not as much as surprising as it is revealing.

Choose 50 trustworthy people. These are people whose word is "golden": They won't bullshit you, play a practical joke or mislead you. If they say something happened, you can bet on it. They can be friends, neighbors, family or strangers.

This is the scenario: You are going to a meeting with these 50 people. When you arrive at the meeting, each of them relates to you that they saw a UFO on the way to the meeting. They describe it as they saw it from their location, providing a rich tapestry of details.

The question: What do you do with the information?

The follow-up question: What do you think will happen?

Most people said they would tell no one. Those that said that they would tell authorities, then went on to answer the second question thusly: Nothing will happen.

UFOs have been seen by thousands of reputable people. Yet the general public "instinctively" knows that to report a sighting is to subject yourself to ridicule and abuse. Most professionals (pilots, etc.) will not report a UFO sighting, regardless of how dramatic it is.

We have been conditioned to disregard our own eyes and the testimony of trustworthy people. Everyone "knows" that UFOs do not exist and are only fodder for tabloid reporting or poor science fiction movies.

If thousands of reputable people say that 9/11 is a hoax, that it was a planned event, then they are immediately disregarded. The general public has been taught to only trust official sources of information and to ignore any other sources. Those who do not toe the official line are conspiracy theorists or nut cases.

[Beam Me Up]

53. "If the TRUTH can be told so as to be believed

it WILL be believed."

Some people will never believe. Others will believe to easily. But what people believe is irrelevant. Either there is evidence that can carry weight in a court of law or there is not. Either there will be justice for arguably the greatest crime in American history or there will not. And if there is not, what can come from an injustice of this magnitude? It is not a matter of guesswork. There is only one thing that can come from injustice and that is more of the same only worse. IF WE LET THESE MURDERERS AND TRAITORS GET AWAY WITH THIS THERE WILL BE NO UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. There will BE no "law and order" only lawlessness and disorder for the rest of our lives. NO ONE, regardless of their position or wealth or prestige will be SAFE OR SECURE in his person or his possessions.

BMU

[Ezlivin]

57. Evidence can be hidden or destroyed

I agree with you completely that we need to bring the perpetrators of 9/11 to justice. If elements of our government were complicit in the attack, they are traitors and should be tried as such.

But it is very hard to believe that, even with evidence, we can bring these people to justice.

Why? Look at the Oklahoma city bombing to see how it can happen. There were many reports of multiple bombs and a retired general, an expert in explosives, concluded that the ANFO bomb in the truck could not have caused the damage; it had to be the result of charges placed inside the building. There were many eyewitnesses who saw someone accompanying McVeigh. And no one has explained why every single BATF officer was out of the office that morning.

The OK city bombing is just one example of how evidence can be disregarded or not used (12 surveillance camera videos were confiscated, never aired and not used in the trial).

Like you, I, too, fear for this country.

[frylock]

60. bomb damage analysis of alfred p. murrah federal building

General Partin's analysis.

http://www.okcbombing.org/News%20Articles/gen.partins_analysis.htm

[Ezlivin]

62. Thanks for supplying the corroborating link

I was typing off the top of my head (hence the misspelling of Murrah).

[TNOE]

55. You're right - Prior Conditioning

which started in the 1940's with the Roswell incident - the tactic of all government officials were "you were crazy" if you said you saw a UFO - it worked for a long time, and still works among many - but then you have US President Jimmy Carter who says he saw one - you have tons of reports from all over the world saying they saw one - you have crop circles, etc. It is mostly ignorance - to think there are possibly 70 TRILLION planets - and yet WE'RE IT. Yep, just us. And we are the very best, smartest and goodest that God created. In the words of Martin Short's character - GIVE ME A BREAK.

People fear what they do not understand.

There is enough information that has been gathered by numerous researchers, experts, normal every day citizens that if put before a Court of Law - would be enough to convict this administration - and they know it. Stanley Hilton has a case before the court now and is being harrassed. He is representing 9/11 family members who did not take the government's bribe.

With 4 Trillion dollars spent on our defense - it is really unbelievable that a guy in a cave could have pulled this off. I knew immediately it was beyond impossible. It was a military operation, planned and executed as such.

Who you going to believe - them or you're lying eyes? Let's put their evidence (remember they only gave it to Tony Blair) - against the tons of research others have done - and get to the bottom of it. That won't happen, and I think we can all speculate as to why.

They were sloppy and made a lot of mistakes and basically got caught (if we had a real media, they would have) - which just goes to how incompetent they are with everything. They also didn't take into consideration the ONE MAJOR THING - the Internet. I'm truly shocked that they have gotten away with this for the past 3 years. Which just goes to show you - people are incredibly underinformed, too trusting in their government, and refuse to think for themselves.

All one has to do is watch Enemies of the State - yes, it is fiction, but ALL of that technology exists today. They have satellites that can observe a blade of grass - and yet they had no clue. THAT is the real conspiracy theory.

[Minstrel Boy]

58. I was all ready to flame when I read the subject line, but

you make a very good point. Thanks for the post. :hi:

Americans are allowed to believe anything, but to know nothing. That is, nothing that would challenge the National Security State.

Reminds me of a column by Richard Dolan, "The Real Wonderland":

The difference between the reality of the phenomena, and how it is ignored, reminds me of what Alice experienced when she jumped down the rabbit hole into Wonderland. But the twist in our society is that the reality of UFO experience is part of the normal, topside world, while mainstream media coverage is part of Wonderland.

...

Another person I know – someone who is a fairly well-known celebrity in Western New York State – had a UFO sighting in May of 1980, just outside Syracuse. It was late afternoon on a sunny day. Driving with a friend, in the small town of Manlius, this person asked his companion if she could see the large object outside her window.

She answered, "I’m really glad you mentioned that, because I didn’t know what I was going to tell you."

According to this person (who also never reported his sighting to any organization), he and his companion got out of the car and watched what he described as "right out of a Steven Spielberg movie." It was a classic flying saucer. Silent, hovering over trees, "as large as a football field." It has rotating lights around the perimeter – red, green, and yellow, as he recalled. The object wasn’t doing anything – merely hovering silently and impossibly in broad daylight.

...

In Wonderland, reality is upside down. Living in this world is like living on a nonstop LSD trip, in which the "reality" we are being fed bears little to no resemblance to the actual experiences of people. In Wonderland, UFOs are imaginary.

[Tim Howells]

82. Think of the Kennedy assassination

People can be persuaded - we went through exactly the
same thing with the Kennedy assassination including a
massive disinfo campaign orchestrated by the CIA. We
have the CIA memo describing the campaign in detail.
The media is STILL using the arguments laid out in
the CIA memo to ridicule "conspiracy theorists".

This is especially surprising because according to
the latest Gallup poll over 90% of americans with
an opinion on the subject believe that president
Kennedy was the victim of a conspiracy and a coverup.
Gallup broke this down all ways - by income, sex,
education, etc. - all groups show a large majority
believing that the government is covering up the
truth.

The downside is that we have not succeeded in getting
the government to take any action based on this
knowledge. The government and the mainstream media
are STILL acting as though the Warren Commision findings
are unassailable, and anyone who disagrees is nuts.

Tim Howells

[dogpatch]

54. LIHOP moving towards MIHOP

I was LIHOP from day one. My partner was evacuated from her hotel in DC that morning and when we could finally talk on the phone, said "Bush did this." Same with my family in NYC, once we could get a phone connection. My brother was walking across the bridge to Brooklyn with thousands of silent horrified people covered in ash and my sister was trying to explain to her two little kids what was going on a few blocks downtown from their home as the toxic cloud enveloped the city. And in the midst of all this they both said instinctively, "Bush did this."

Then just a couple of weeks ago my brother-in-law, who lost lots of friends and neighbors at WTC, sent me this video (link below). He and my very rational and scientific sister have become totally convinced it was MIHOP, reminding me of how the towers fell in such a perfectly controlled way, like when they implode those old casinos in Vegas, talking about how NORAD was nowhere to be seen that morning, on and on.

They are also reading a book called "The New Pearl Harbor," which they say offers extremely compelling logic about why this had to be MIHOP and they are urging me to read it. It's too scary to think it could be true, not sure if my little mind can really take it.

http://www.elchulo.net/files/pentagon.swf

[mopaul]

59. second jet, second tower, i said it too.....bush did this.........n/t

[crickets]

69. Tower 'collapse'

That is a powerful flash presentation. It makes me want to cry every time I see it. Thanks for the book title reminder, dogpatch.

It's difficult to find a program on controlled demolition on TV these days. I recently ran across a few scenes in a program about the top 10 bridges in the world where one bridge was demolished before the current one was built, but that's about it. Isn't that interesting? In the year before Sept 11, demolition shows were all over the Discovery and History channels. I watched everything from bridges to old office buildings and outdated housing projects to stadiums go down in controlled clouds of dust.

Watching the first tower come down, I felt sick. As the second one fell, I KNEW. I knew exactly what I was seeing, and it was no 'collapse' due to fire. There was no question in my mind. There was a demolitions expert who came forward the very next day to state the buildings had to have come down due to controlled demo, but he was quickly hushed up and the interview was pulled from the web site. I wish I could remember his name or the name of the publication, but I don't.

That ALONE was enough for me, but all of the other questions about NORAD, impossibly talented pilots, the incredible disappearing Pentagon plane, the speed with which perpetrators were supposedly indentified, etc. just piled on more horrible certainty in my mind. There was a horrible attack on our country that day, and it came from within.

:cry:

[bloom]

61. One thing I wonder is if there are so many terrorists against us

like they say... where are they?

I think we would be having suicide bombers weekly, at least. I don't think "Homeland Security" is doing some amazing job of prevention. I think if people wanted to bomb restaurants, etc. they would have been - just like in Israel.

[noiretextatique]

66. i've always thought MIHOP, but i was convinced by their efforts

to block the investigation. and remember the magic, pristine passport found a few days after the towers fell? remember the rental car they found with flight school literature in it (in pennsylvania, i believe)...and a koran :eyes: definitely MIHOP.

[Artemis Bunyon]

67. Bush is "hunting down" Osama like O.J. is hunting down "the real killers."

x

[LunaC]

68. Osama DID do it

As a CIA operative, silly! You don't hunt down "one of the boyz!" Especially when he might come in handy later.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html


There's no plausible explanation for the following sequence of events

Except MIHOP...........

In May 2001 the U.S. State Department met with Iran, German and Italian officials to discuss Afghanistan. It was decided that the ruling Taliban would be toppled and a "broad-based government" would control the country so a gas pipeline could be built there.

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/7969.pdf.
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/features/fex20867.htm


Even as plans were being made to remove the Taliban rulers from power, Colin Powell announced a $43 million "gift" to Afghanistan.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-091701scheer.column
http://www.cato.org/dailys/08-02-02.html


Meanwhile, the U.S. Embassy in the UAE received a call that Bin Laden supporters were in the U.S. planning attacks with explosives. It was rumored that Bin Laden was interested in hijacking U.S. aircraft.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/images/04/10/whitehouse.pdf


In June 2001 the decades-old procedure for a quick response by the nation’s air defense was changed. NORAD’s military commanders could no longer issue the command to launch fighter jets because approval had to be sought from the civilian Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing7/for_the_record_ashley.pdf


In July 2001, the private plot formulated in May for toppling the Taliban was divulged during the G8 summit in Genoa, Italy. Immediately after the conference, American, Russian, German and Pakistani officials secretly met in Berlin to finalize the strategy for military strikes against the Taliban, scheduled to begin before mid-October 2001

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,556254,00.html
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/features/fex20867.htm


In September 2001 the "catastrophic and catalyzing" modern-day Pearl Harbor envisioned years earlier by the White House members of the PNAC came to pass when the WTC and Pentagon were attacked with U.S. aircraft as Rumsfeld sat passive and unresponsive. Immediately, the finger of blame was pointed at Osama bin Laden, a former CIA operative with ties to Afghanistan. Suddenly, the U.S. "gift" of $43 million to the Taliban in May was cast in a new light. Coincidentally, Pakistan had participated in the plan to attack Afghanistan and the chief of Pakistan's Inter Service Intelligence (ISI) agency was later linked to a 911 hijacker after wiring him $100,00 just days before the WTC fell. Pakistan's ISI also had a long-standing working relationship with the CIA.

http://cryptome.org/rad.htm
http://www.observer.com/pages/story.asp?ID=8830
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=1454238160
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1266317,00.html


In October 2001, with flags waving, crowds cheering, and anthems playing, the "War On Terror" and the hunt for Osama began when Afghanistan was attacked right on schedule of July's secret meeting


Shorrtly afterwards, public focus was diverted to Iraq while the OSP maneuvered in the background. You already know the rest of the story.

[bloom]

70. But who benefits the most?

I'm thinking it's Israel.

Of course that could easily tie in with Wolfowitz - it's hard to know completely what is the ultimate agenda.

But anyway - recently - in the news is talk that the Palestinian State idea is being abolished. The "road map" discarded.

From the Israeli point of view - they have Americans more sympathetic to the idea of worrying about terrorist attacks.

The US attacked Iraq - that has to be HUGE for Israel.

Iran might be next. Syria?

What else could they dream of?

[Bush was AWOL]

71. This is idiotic. Don't you think Ted Kennedy

or some other untouchable liberal would be aware of this if you think you are and speak out against this wicked sort of cover up? If you know about it, then I'm sure the likes of Kennedy, Kerry, Edwards, etc know as well. Why aren't they saying anything about these conspiracy theories if it is so obvious?

[mopaul]

72. good question..

sorry i don't have a simple answer. wish i did.

[Bush was AWOL]

73. Unless they all are involved in a conspiracy like this

or are afraid they will be considered insane and lose all credibility if they were to come out with an accusation of the sort, it is simply impossible for this to be MIHOP or LIHOP. Personally, I doubt it's either. My opinion is that we got hit because of incompetency.

[Llyr21]

76. Well there is that...and

Quote: "or are afraid they will be considered insane and lose all credibility if they were to come out with an accusation of the sort"


well there is that...and:
DO you remember who got the anthrax in the mail shortly after 9-11?

And where in hell has THAT investigation gotten?

[Minstrel Boy]

74. "untouchable liberal"?

Is there such a thing in America?

And you think a Kennedy is an untouchable liberal?

Ted was expected to be on Paul Wellstone's final flight.

[vincent_vega_lives]

98. So the whole congress is in on it?

The House, Senate, Courts, Defense Department, Justice Department, FAA, FCC, Post office...

[DemonFighterLives]

75. A little thing called intimidation

Followed by death.

[Beam Me Up]

77. I believe they DO know.

Speaking now of whatever real opposition there is to the neoNAZIS and their agenda for US/GLOBAL domination by controlling the last major oil deposits. They DO know. Why else would the real President of the United States call for the resignation of practically the entire Bush cabanet "for National Security reasons"? But they are faced with the same problem we all are. This didn't just come from Cheney, this came from deep within thte structure of the National Security State itself. This aparatus is a lethal SNAKE that is imbedded within the Secret Service. WHO CAN YOU TRUST? You don't know and yet your life may very well depend upon knowning the answer to that question. Who takes orders from whom? This isn't just A snake, its a SNAKE PIT of espionage, black mail and deception.

Someone signed off on this operation. Someone with a lot of power. Someone truly "untouchable" -- and they were not "liberal".

[stickdog]

85. Why isn't Kennedy talking about his brothers' assassinations?

Funny how they always let the weakest, dumbest and most gutless ones live, ain't it?

[vincent_vega_lives]

97. Are you saying Bush had them killed as well???

He was a little young then wasn't he? ;)

[tngledwebb]

86. Think more on this.

Assume the worst- MIHOP/inside job ( say by a CIA and military controlled by an insane Neo-Con/fundamentalist hybrid.)
Assume that top Dems and Repubs know it was MIHOP, most European govt's know it was MIHOP, that big US media knows and may even be complicit.
So, aside from protecting life and family, who risks their credibility by trying to get this info out? (Remember what happened to H. Dean when he made a reference to LIHOP?)
And ask which European leaders would be so rash as to declare the most powerful military country in the world to be under the control of insane fascists who perpetuated 9/11?
And, if they did so, consider the catastrophic effects on global economic and political stability after total collapse of faith in America and it's currency. Consider the increase in real terrorist organizations who could then legitimately see the USA as the Great Satan.
And who anywhere would brave the truth about a Govt with REAL WMD's that has shown itself capable of killing it's own citizens? Seen what they are doing to Iraq without any good reason at all? With a chance of peaceful regime change in November, it might be wise to wait just a bit longer.
Then ask how few Americans would even listen to such a far-fetched tale when most think Saddam was behind 9/11, and half still trust this Govt with their security?

[Sterling]

88. "untouchable liberal" like JFK? RFK?

I think Ted and the other Dems have learned not to fuck with the BFEE.

[MercutioATC]

80. Of course! Our President obviously always has his priorities straight...

:eyes:

I think it's a commonly-held belief here that Bush's focus quickly wandered from finding the terrorists responsible for 9/11 to something completely different...attacking Iraq.

You're now going to say that you trust that he'd still be looking for OBL if he thought he did it? That's a complete contradiction.

[Sterling]

89. And we all know W sets the agenda, lol.

:eyes: right back at ya.

[MercutioATC]

92. By "Bush" I meant the Bush administration.

:eyes:

Your turn...

:)

[number6]

81. inside job yes, inside the gov(bush regime) maybe no ...

watching bush and cheney in the debates

would you trust these two with a conspiracy of
this magnitude

[Beam Me Up]

83. You didn't read post #48, did you?

Perhaps you should. Cheney and Rumsfeld have been on the inside of the NSS for 20 years.

[TheKingfish]

91. Clinton Involved ?

So who attacked the USS Cole? Who attacked the US embassy in Kenya?

[vincent_vega_lives]

96. Tell my bud

who just got back from a tour with a team in A-Stan that we aren't "hunting him down relentlessly"

Tell these guys' families:

Army Staff Sgt. Tony B. Olaes

30, of Walhalla, S.C.; assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Special Forces Group, Fort Bragg, N.C.; killed Sept. 20 when his patrol vehicle was ambushed by small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades in Shkin, Afghanistan.

Army Staff Sgt. Robert S. Goodwin

35, of Albany, Ga.; assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Special Forces Group, Fort Bragg, N.C.; killed Sept. 20 when his patrol vehicle was ambushed by small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades in Shkin, Afghanistan.

There are 18,000 troops in A-Stan right now. The problem is the Pakistan border. The local Pakistani commanders are inept, corrupt, and not willing to let US forces operate in Pakistan. Everything has to be done through "channels".

[sosdemok]

99. ?????

I rather have the impression that they where trying to DOWNPLAY Osamas role. Have you seen Michael Moores film? It seems that the Bush family has trade relations with the bin Ladens. And they have really been much more concerned with Iraq, which had really nothing to do with Osama.Another thing is taht the Bush clan might have known about it before. At least they where warned and didnt seem to concerned. They were more busy trying to find an excuse for going to war against Saddam.

By the way, everyone must read this link:

http://207.44.245.159/article7077.htm

There seems like bin Laden might be in China. And Bush is trying to buy him, so that they can show him before the elections. Of course this is not shown in any American TV channels because of censorship.

[tngledwebb]

100. And so it was that

one OBL on 9/11, or was it 9/12, became our new Emmanuel Goldstein, and then no LONGER WORRIED Bush early 02 or so.
( Even though this brilliant and lucky beyond calculation miltary genius and/or cave-dwelling terrorist was THE organizer of the ONLY foreign attack on US soil in history, and an incredibly successful one which resulted in the murder of thousands on innocent civilians, and the destruction of two landmark and symbolic skyscrapers and one wall of THE PENTAGON, and just by using a few dozen ME youth armed with boxcutters, cell phones, credit cards, rented cars, embedded in this country without notice for perhaps years, and never photographed more than once, if that, by our airport security cameras....etc )

And so it was that US public was brainwashed yet again and Saddam became the new Emmanuel Goldstein, while OBL and his followers roam free, or maybe one AQ member has gone to trial but who cares, who's counting, who knows, and on and on and on.

Eric Blair, we hardly knew ye, but you knew US.

[John Doe II]

101. Something to know about: Wanted dead or alive!

Maybe interesting stuff about UBL and Bush's promise WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE:
http://11september-paxamericana.chez.tiscali.fr//Laden.htm