I hereby copy right the term "Truther Magic Metals"

[hack89]

to describe the amazing aluminum and steel that melted in the WTC rubble pile yet did not mix with each other or with all the other crap in the pile but instead remained separate and pure so that even people who have never seen molten steel before could identify it.

[petgoat]

1. You say the metal is easily explained. Why then does NIST deny that it exists? nt

[SDuderstadt]

2. Please provide any such link where NIST....

says that. I think you're conflating a denial that there were pools of "molten steel" into something beyond anything anyone said. Talk about dishonesty.

[petgoat]

4. Where have you been?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcqf5tL887o


Did you ever hear of a guy named Richard Gage?

[SDuderstadt]

5. Listen closely, PG....

the questioner is asking about "MOLTEN STEEL" and, as well, Gross is referring to "molten steel". Denying the existence of "molten steel" is NOT the same thing as denying the existence of "molten metal". It's hysterical when you provide evidence that refutes your own claim.

[petgoat]

6. Denying the molten steel while failing to explain that it was molten aluminum

is answering with your fingers crossed.

That's like saying, "Nobody could have imagined that airplanes would be used
as weapons to slam into the WTC and the Pentagon" while you're secretly thinking
"We thought they were going to hit Sears Tower!"

Gross is busted either way, and you are too.

[SDuderstadt]

8. Oh, bullshit, PG...

The questioner asks Gross a question, then Gross asks what proof the questioner has of the claim implicit in the question. Your intellectual dishonesty is stunning.

[petgoat]

10. Go to school, learn to think. nt

[SDuderstadt]

11. Take your own advice, PG...

Your lack of critical thinking skills is equally stunning.

[petgoat]

36. Been there, done that. What's your favourite example of my lack of thinking skills? nt

[AZCat]

37. Your mechanical reasoning sucks ass.

But you knew that already.

[petgoat]

41. More of AZ's engineering wisdom. Your keyboard breaks wind. nt

[AZCat]

44. What kind of an insult is that?

It doesn't even make sense. I'm sure Google will serve you better in this instance than it has for your engineering and scientific questions - why don't you try looking for lists of possible insults?

[petgoat]

47. It's a technical description of your posts --airy, unpleasant, useless, possibly unhealthy. nt

[AZCat]

51. You need to have a doctor look at your perception of the world.

It seems to be out of calibration.

[petgoat]

53. The operative question is: an example of my lack of thinking skills. You only fart. nt

[AZCat]

54. This forum is riddled with examples of your inability to reason mechanically.

Since you've participated in those threads (and started a few) I imagine you're familiar with them.

[petgoat]

55. Please support your assertions with examples. Did you quit school in 5th grade? nt

[AZCat]

56. We have gone over this before.

I have listed examples for you in the past. It is beyond belief to think you are not familiar with them. Claiming some sort of temporary amnesia might work with other people but it doesn't with me.

[petgoat]

57. If it should be fresh in my memory, how come it's not fresh in yours? nt

[AZCat]

58. Your post is just pathetic.

Again you reach new lows, petgoat.

[petgoat]

60. More engineering wisdom from AZ. nt

[hack89]

3. You point out a failure of the truth movement

The truth movement is very vague on any details on these "pools of molten metal". For example - just how big were these pools? How many were there? You have never proven that there were significant amounts of molten metal (much less steel) - all you have is a handful of individual statements that give absolutely no details. None at at.

Perhaps NIST didn't mention the molten metal because it was either expected (the melted aluminum that is) or it was not found in any significant amount. Can you show any evidence that molten metal was present in any significant amount?

[petgoat]

7. In case you didn't notice, investigators were not allowed on the site until October

Cameras were outlawed. A couple dozen people testified to molten metal.

[SDuderstadt]

9. Great, PG....

List these "couple dozen" by name and link us to the transcript of their comments unless, of course, you're just blowing smoke as usual.

[petgoat]

12. I've linked it many times in this forum. Learn to Google. Learn to think,

Here's a start:

Google molten metal witnesses.

http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2005/12/why-was-there-molten-metal-under.html

Stop confusing your lazy ignorance for a lack of evidence.

[SDuderstadt]

17. Now it's switched back to "molten metal witnesses"...

this is hysterical. You realize that "molten metal" is NOT the same thing as "molten steel", right? So, what exactly is your claim? It's hard to tell since it changes all the time.

[petgoat]

19. The witnesses say steel. Jones' analysis says iron. NIST says it doesn't exist.

Your argument that if the molten steel is not pure it's meaningless
was so frantic as to torpedo claims of objectivity.

molten metal witnesses was not a definition. It was a google search term.

Learn to think.

If you learn to google maybe then your opinions won't be so peculiar.

[SDuderstadt]

20. And you honestly think the "witnesses" can look at something and...

discern its metallurgical composition with no testing??? That's your funniest claim yet.

[petgoat]

22. No. Learn to think. Witnesses are witnesses, not proof. nt

[SDuderstadt]

24. Then you have no proof for your claim...

thanks for that candid admission.

[petgoat]

26. I never said I did. Hence the call for new investigations, to develop information on these

witnesses' assertions.

Demanding proof in order to justify an investigation is logically fallacious,
a common problem amongst your bunch of logical fallaciators.

[SDuderstadt]

30. You still haven't answered the most basic question....

how could someone have looked at a pool of something and concluded it was "molten steel"?

[petgoat]

34. I don't know. Let's ask Congress to form a commission and find out. nt

[SDuderstadt]

35. Go ahead...

I'm sure they'll take your call.

[petgoat]

38. What do you think I've been doing for four years?

My Congressional Rep is a gutless hack, more concerned with getting
invited to Republican cocktail parties than with defending the
Constitution or determining truth.

[AZCat]

40. Maybe the truth can be found at Republican cocktail parties?

I wouldn't know - I've never been to one - but it's possible that the truth can be found in the most unlikely places.

[petgoat]

43. She couldn't find the truth if it was handed to her on a plate. nt

[AZCat]

45. Maybe she mistook it for a hors d'oeuvre? n/t

[SDuderstadt]

42. Maybe you should run for the seat...

then they could laugh at you in Congress, too.

[hack89]

13. You prove my point

no details - just a handful of statements taken out of context.

Do you have a link that shows that investigators were not allowed on site until October? I suspect you are once again misinterpreting something.

And there are plenty of pictures of the salvage work at ground zero - since all this cooled (once molten) metal would be at the bottom of the pile there should be plenty of witness and pictures as they remove these massive ingots of cooled metal towards the end of the debris removal. Funny how those accounts don't seem to exist?

[petgoat]

14. We've already been over this.

FEMA says it didn't get site access until October, I think October 12.

There were complaints of lack of site access--all they got was a two day
guided tour.

There are two dozen witnesses testifying to molten metal--most of them
say it was molten steel.

Lack of photos? There's lack of a lot of stuff, including the supposedly
heat-damaged steel that supposedly brought the buildings down.

Lack of accounts of removal of steel doesn't impress. 118 first responders
testified to sounds and/or sights of explosions, and then said nothing
while their testimony was kept secret for three years--and they're still
saying nothing. Obviously people are at work who are really really good at
making people shut up.

[hack89]

16. So what you got is a bunch of nothing

certainly nothing to indicate significant amounts of molten metal.


And tell me - just how would they know it was steel? Are you saying that actual test were done? And just would these people be able to distinguish steel from aluminum? I mean - according to you molten metals are simply not found at fires. So doesn't that mean that this would be the first time any of them saw molten metals at a fire scene? So why are we to believe what they saw was steel?

[petgoat]

18. Witnesses are something. You want to say without proof it's nothing.

Actually somebody has a big chunk of formerly molten iron.

Dr. Jones did chemical analysis on it.

[SDuderstadt]

21. And you want to say without proof that it's "molten steel....

bullshit.

[petgoat]

23. Stop putting your stupid words in my mouth. Learn to think. nt

[SDuderstadt]

25. When you can explain how someone could know something was "molten steel"....

merely by looking at it, you might have something. Until then, this is just another one of your goofy claims (however, the "soda cracker experiment" still takes the cake).

[petgoat]

27. I never said they knew it. I said they said it. I think it should be checked out. nt

[AZCat]

15. We've gone over this before.

Cameras were not outlawed at ground zero. Don't be fucking stupid.

[petgoat]

28. Unauthorized photographers were threatened with arrest. nt

[SDuderstadt]

29. Please provide some proof for your claim, PG...

Also, please make sure to distinguish between onlookers who were trying to get close to GZ and legitimate rescue/recovery/investigative personnel. The place was swarming with official personnel and there are tons of pictures from the site. More of your ognorance masquerading as a "quest for truth".

[petgoat]

31. We already had this discussion two months ago. It's not my fault you can't learn.

Clearly the place was swarming with officials stopping people from
taking pictures. How come no pictures of twin tower debris being
extracted from the WTC7 rubble? How come no pictures of the massive
trusses in WTC7? How come no pictures of the buckled columns?

[SDuderstadt]

32. And you lost, as I recall....n/t

[petgoat]

33. You make stuff up.

http://www.parrhesia.com/wtc/wtc-photos.htm

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EFDC1638F931A25752C0A9649C8B63

Try googling .... ground zero photagrapher arrest ....

[SDuderstadt]

39. From your own source....

''He wasn't supposed to be in there,'' said Sgt. Ralph Carone. ''He had someone else's pass, and his pass was expired, too.'' One roll of film was confiscated, said Steve Berman, a photo editor.

It was a crime and recovery scene. Are you really surprised that people weren't just permitted to wander around there? Wouldn't the fact that he was using someone else's "expired) pass imply that he could have possibly obtained a pass?

[petgoat]

46. Wouldn't the fact that he was using someone else's pass imply that he couldn't get one?

See what I mean? You make stuff up.

[AZCat]

48. No, it doesn't. n/t

[petgoat]

49. It more reasonably implies he couldn't than he could. nt

[AZCat]

50. It implies nothing of the sort. n/t

[petgoat]

52. Did so. n/t

[SidDithers]

59. I like it...

maybe we'll see articles claiming "Witnesses observed pools of molten Truther Magic Metals"

:rofl:

Sid

[petgoat]

61. If ridiculing witnesses is part of your rhetorical strategy, that goes a long way to explain

how you manage to maintain such peculiar opinions.

[petgoat]

62. Kick for SDuderstadt and her peculiar opinions. nt

[SDuderstadt]

63. I'm a guy, PG...

duh.