Video Evidence of Molten Metal at the Base of the felled Towers...

[Indi Guy]

http://www.truveo.com/NIST-Lead-Engineer-Questioned-About-911-Denies/id/3076365842

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Subdivisions]

2. Our resident spooks not on duty this morning? n/t

[procopia]

3. There is no credible

way to deny molten metal, even though they try.

[SDuderstadt]

4. Please point to any of us who have denied "molten metal"....

the issue is CT's who try to morph "molten metal" into "molten steel". Big difference.

Here's what I find funny about the video. Hint: it disproves its own claim. Look at the slide where the grapple is picking up the supposedly "molten steel". Do you understand that if the grapple was, in fact, picking up "molten steel", it would immediately cause the grapple's hydraulic system to seize up? I love it when the "9/11 truth movement" provides evidence that contradicts its own claim.

[JuniperLea]

7. Where is your proof of that? eom

[SDuderstadt]

10. Proof of what?

You don't think if steel was molten it would make the hydraulics of a grapple seize up? Really? I have to explain that to you? Also, wouldn't it make sense that whatever was molten would not be comprised only of steel (if steel was even in it) but other metals as well, like the huge amount of aluminum cladding that was used?

[Theobald]

14. Do you deny that temperatures reached 1,500 deg f?

The NIST knows temps reached 1,500 degrees, firefighters know they did, and I know of noone who has denied they did reach that high. Temperatures that high will melt several metals including aluminum, bronze, brass, and silver, so a lack of molten metal would be weird. Therefor your statement is meaningless.

[Theobald]

5. Molten metal or molten steel?

The video questioner asks the NIST guy if there is any evidence of molten steel and he says no. Steel becomes molten at 2,600 hundred degrees farenheit and the temperature of the fire in the building before it collappsed never got above 1,800 degrees farenheit. There are other metals that melt at 1,800 degrees or below; aluminum, brass, bronze, lead, magnesium, silver, tin, and zinc. Airplanes are made primarily of aluminum and if there was any molten metal falling from the building, as suggested by the video, then it was most likely aluminum.

The questioner says that eyewitnesses so 'huge pools of molten steel beneath the towers' (which would be after the collapse), but fails to provide one eyewitness who actually said that. Two firefighters say they saw molten steel running down a channel like lava. Never did they say they saw huge pools of molten steel and there is no evidence to suggest they know the differnce between molten steel and other molten metals. The rest of the eyewitnesses in the video talk about the temperature reaching 1,100 degrees and 1,500 degrees and the core looking like an oven, but none of them talk about molten steel.

If you are trying to make a point it is best to put your best evidence forward. If that is your best evidence it is pretty lame.
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
13. Why did the NIST investigation not consider reports of molten steel in the wreckage from the WTC towers?

NIST investigators and experts from the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEONY)—who inspected the WTC steel at the WTC site and the salvage yards—found no evidence that would support the melting of steel in a jet-fuel ignited fire in the towers prior to collapse. The condition of the steel in the wreckage of the WTC towers (i.e., whether it was in a molten state or not) was irrelevant to the investigation of the collapse since it does not provide any conclusive information on the condition of the steel when the WTC towers were standing.

NIST considered the damage to the steel structure and its fireproofing caused by the aircraft impact and the subsequent fires when the buildings were still standing since that damage was responsible for initiating the collapse of the WTC towers.

Under certain circumstances it is conceivable for some of the steel in the wreckage to have melted after the buildings collapsed. Any molten steel in the wreckage was more likely due to the high temperature resulting from long exposure to combustion within the pile than to short exposure to fires or explosions while the buildings were standing.

[SidDithers]

9. Good post...

and welcome to DU :hi:

Sid

[wildbilln864]

22. This PHD says molten steel!

"There were 59 columns in each
exterior face. It is believed that two
thirds of the perimeter columns in
the face of the building were badly
damaged or destroyed at impact.
Other columns may also have been
damaged.
As of 21 days after the attack, the
fires were still burning and molten
steel was still running. What
concrete that wasn’t pulverized into
dust will continue to be removed for
weeks to come. The structural steel
is being removed and shipped by
barge to be recycled.
All photographs shown on
television, shot-on-site were preapproved
by the FBI.
We were shown photographs that
were not released for public view."

from: link

[Theobald]

23. What does a PhD have to do with anything

First of all I can find no citation which states that James Williams has a Phd. He is president of the Structural Engineering Association of Utah, which means he almost definitly is a structural engineer and that has relevance. From what I can tell from the article James was never at the WTC site while cleanup operations were taking place. So it looks like all of the information was provided second hand. The newsletter was pubished in October of 2001 so it wasn't too long after the attacks. He doesn't provide citations for any of the interesting facts that he proffers so it is hard to research what he is basing his claims on. He does claim that molten steel was running 21 days after the attacks, but he doesn't say where he got that information.

After a little research it turns out that Williams got the information from Leslie's presentation. He took notes during the meeting and in the notes he wrote down molten metal, not molten steel. http://www.911myths.com/NCSEA_oct_5_2001_Leslie_Robertson_s_lecture__notes_by_James_Williams.pdf

So try again; no molten steel here.

[Bolo Boffin]

6. Not this again.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x139889

[jakeXT]

8. What about those iron rich spheres Steven Jones talks about

and which are mentioned in the FEMA report, I believe ?

Relatives of mine started to believe that 911 was an inside job after watching BBC's "The Third Tower".

They mentioned a sample collected shortly after the collapse (hour range) containing those spheres. To debunk it they claimed it could have been from cutting steel during the removal.

[SDuderstadt]

11. And it easily could have been....n/t

[Theobald]

12. I heard and hear and someone told me that within hours.....

Stephen Jones http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/JonesWTC911SciMethod.pdf used dust samples collected by a woman, from her apartment at 113 Cedar Street approximately one week after the towers fell.

Quote from Stephen Jones:
"Furthermore, Janette MacKinlay collected the dust inside her apartment just about a week after
the buildings collapsed, so there was very little time for any molten-metal spheres created somehow by
the clean-up itself to have made its way into her 4th-floor to be mingled in with the dust up there."

Very little time to Stephen Jones is 'just about a week'. An a week is certainly not in the realm of an hour.

They were certainly cutting steel before an entire week was out, not to mention the fact that Janette's apartment on cedar street was about a football field away from the site.

[jakeXT]

13. It was a man and he collected it from a bridge, if I remember correctly

I would have to find the clip online and check it again.

[Theobald]

15. You referenced the research done by Steve Jones

who found metallic spheres in the dust collected from 113 Cedar Street, but you were actually talking about dust collected from a bridge? Who did the study on that dust?

The nearest bridge to the WTC is the brooklyn bridge, which is hardly close. Also, there is no way to tell whether the metallic spheres were already on the bridge before the dust settled on to it; hint metal work on a bridge is hardly uncommon.

[jakeXT]

18. You are right it's Brooklyn Bridge

http://vp.video.google.com/videodownload?version=0&secureurl=TgAAAJOdF-JuKFA7SFphAponJMBU9_6I4Ai7Z-2ilUhadyC6bF1QXgCc3TvRbRjgQuZdhKTO_wzoEHYXoLo_l9SnMUM4QKE16bJ0RLTAE5tinCFY&sigh=fS-ryKHmCgIY5Wf8_waI090kzaw


It starts around 34 minutes

It was collected by a topography photography student called Frank Delessio within one hour of the collapse.


They mention the cutting torches as an explanation, but this doesn't work within one hour. Additionally they claim it can come from any building work before, which is pretty broad.

[Theobald]

16. From another paper by Jones, but with others

"We have recently obtained a WTC dust sample acquired within twenty minutes of the collapse of the North Tower,
near the Brooklyn Bridge, which also shows spherules like those shown in Figs. 1-5. These spheres cannot
have originated from the later clean-up operations."

This 'scientific' paper mentions dust collected near the bridge by does not provide it's provenance. It also fails to show that it is a pure sample or dust or that it might have been contaminated by welding work on a bridge or building prior to the trade center collapse.

[Theobald]

17. I've Got It!

Oh my god, I can't believe it, you have convinced me.....

http://www.politicalcortex.com/story/2008/5/17/213921/456

"In his presentation, "9/11 Research: High Temperatures, Iron-Rich Spheres, and Another Discovery," Jones discussed the history and chain of custody of three samples of dust, the last being collected from the pedestrian rail of Brooklyn Bridge by university student Frank Delessio as he was fleeing the area approximately 10 minutes after the collapse of the North Tower.

Jones' electron microscopy study of what he calls an "uncontaminated dust sample" revealed the presence of red chips in the dust. An XEDS spectrum analysis showed one side of the chips to contain the chemical signature of Thermite, which can produce short bursts of high temperatures and is used in welding and cutting steel."

How do you get an uncontaminated sample from the railing of a bridge several hundred yards from the WTC site? Oh wait they found thermite in the sample! I must have missed that the first time I read it; that definitly proves it was a controlled demolition. CRAP! Thermite is also produced by welding and cutting steel and I think I might have read something, somewhere, sometime, where they said they heard that welding sometimes occurs in the building and maintanence of bridges. If that is the case then it looks like you have more work to do.

[AZCat]

19. That's crazy!

Everyone knows bridges are made of LEGO pieces, and just snap together - no welding needed!

[jakeXT]

20. Building the bridge was really interesting and unique

Sandhogs have had a part in New York City's most impressive, and toughest, construction projects ever since the 1870s, when they broke ground on their first big job—the iconic Brooklyn Bridge.

In 1867, New York legislators approved engineer John Augustus Roebling's plan for a suspension bridge over the East River between Manhattan and Brooklyn. Roebling's bridge would be a technological marvel: It would have the world's longest span (1,600 feet from tower to tower); it would be the first to use steel wires, cables and trusses; and it would be the first to excavate the riverbed by sending workers—the Sandhogs—armed with explosives into fire-prone underwater chambers called caissons.

Roebling died after a freak accident just as construction was getting underway, and his son Washington took over the bridge project. It was the younger Roebling who designed the caissons that housed the project's Sandhogs—mostly immigrant workers who earned about $2 a day—as they prepared to sink the bridge's foundation into the riverbed. These caissons were airtight wooden chambers, 160 feet long and 100 feet wide, which were pinned to the river's floor by enormous granite blocks. Inside these giant boxes, the Sandhogs used shovels and dynamite to clear away the mud and boulders at the bottom of the river. Each week, the caissons inched closer to the bedrock.
...
http://www.history.com/content/sandhogs/the-brooklyn-bridge

[Theobald]

21. Also check out 'The Great Bridge'

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Bridge-Story-Building-Brooklyn/dp/0743217373/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235599095&sr=1-2