What Is Red Mercury? (For those followng the Vreeland story) (About.com)

[seventhson]

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/chemicalweapons/f/blredmercury.htm

Q. What Is Red Mercury?
From Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D.,
Your Guide to Chemistry.

A.
The science newsgroups have been a-buzz with tales of a 2-kiloton yield Russian red mercury fusion device, theoretically in the possession of terrorists. This, of course, begs the question: What Is Red Mercury? The answer to this question depends largely on who you ask. Is red mercury real? Absolutely, but definitions vary. If you had asked me before I did a bit of Internet research, I would have given you the standard cinnabar/vermillion answer. However, the Russium tritium fusion bomb is more interesting...

.....

Mercury (II) Iodide
The alpha crystalline form of mercury (II) iodide is called 'red mercury', which changes to the yellow beta form at 127°C.

.....

A Ballotechnic Mercury Compound
Presumably red in color. Ballotechnics are substances which react very energetically in response to high-pressure shock compression. Google's Sci.Chem group has had a lively ongoing discussion about the possiblity of a an explosive form of mercury antimony oxide. According to some reports, red mercury is a cherry red semi-liquid which is produced by irradiating elemental mercury with mercury antimony oxide in a Russian nuclear reactor. Some people think that red mercury is so explosive that it can be used to trigger a fusion reaction in tritium or deuterium-tritium mixture. Pure fusion devices don't require fissionable material, so it's easier to get the materials needed to make one and easier to transport said materials from one place to another. Other reports refer to a documentary in which is was possible to read a report on Hg2Sb207, in which the compound had a density of 20.20 Kg/dm3 (!). Personally, I find it plausible that mercury antimony oxide, as a low density (nonradioactive?) powder, may be of interest as a ballotechnic material. The high-density material seems unlikely. It would also seem unreasonably dangerous (to the maker) to use a ballotechnic material in a fusion device. One intriguing source mentions a liquid explosive, HgSbO, made by Du Pont laboratories and listed in the international chemical register as number 20720-76-7. Anyone care to look it up?

A Military Code Name for a New Nuclear Material
As I understand it, this definition originates from the extraordinarily high prices commanded and paid for a substance called 'red mercury', which was manufactured in Russia. The price ($200-300K per kilogram) and trade restrictions were consistent with a nuclear material as opposed to cinnabar.


GIVEN THE CLAIMS ALLEGEDLY MADE BY VREELAND I FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO POST THIS SO PEOPLE WERE INFORMED. ON AN EARLIER POST I SAID THAT A "DIRTY BOMB" WAS NOT THAT WORRISOME.

I HEREBY WITHDRAW THAT OPINION.

SINCE THIS IS FOUND ON ABOUT.COM IT CAN HARDLY FALL INTO THE CATEGORY OF CT AND IF VREELAND KNEW SOMETHING ABOUT IT, THEN HIS RELIABILITY IMPROVES IMHO.

[On the Road]

1. Holy Shit!

You mean even if all the plutonium and uranium in the world were sequestered, you can still make a nuclear device with mercury?

Now THAT is scary.
:scared:

[seventhson]

3. That is apparenrtly what Vreeland was warning abour (see the site linked)

and scroll down. I have not even read that yet -- but YEAH

HOLY SHIT (ot UNHOLY SHIT AS THE CASE MAY BE)

it puts this whole episode in a scarier light.

frankly all I can say is WTF.

I hope the FBI does their job.

[sangh0]

5. How do you know that?

In other threads, you've claimed that the only info you had was what GBnC has said, which had nothing about red mercury.

SO how do you know Vreeland was referring to this?

[sangh0]

11. Seventhson, how do you know that?

If you have info that could save people's lives, why wouldn't you tell us about it? Why would you drop hints, but not tell us more?

[seventhson]

37. I said in my post - see the link

there is an article linbked on Vreeland and the red mercury.

I said I had not read it yet, but have seen references to Vreeland raising issues about it.

That is ALL I know and I provided the links.

Jeez

[sangh0]

44. Well, since Red Mercury is NOT a concern

as explained by another poster in this thread, doesn't this speak AGAINST Vreeland's credibility?

I said I had not read it yet, but have seen references to Vreeland raising issues about it.

That's pretty odd. You are obviously very interested in Vreeland and his warning. You obviously think that Red Mercury might be involved in this warning.

But you didn't read an article about Vreeland and Red Mercury?

[sangh0]

49. seventhson?

I know you're still on DU. I've seen your other posts.

[sangh0]

2. SO does this mean you're off the SKull n Bones kick?

We're still waiting for you to explain why you think the Vreeland threat is real.

[seventhson]

4. Two responses: One - I stopped THAT kick when the primaries were over

frankly I think nobody can be better prepared to defeat Bush due to knowledge of the "inside"

Secondly:

I do not have any interest in explaining why I believe the Vreeland threat is "real". I believe it is a serious and merits further investigation and scrutiny.

Vreeland told one of us and I believe the person he told took it seriously. He passed it along wisely IMHO.

Taking the warning seriously is NOT the same as believing it is true.

I believe however that the possibility exists that it is true and therefore law enforcement must investigate as must the media to "protect" Vreeland

They are investigating. So I am relieved (more or less - I still am concerned about the possibility of a BFEE October Surprise in the lines of a Goebbel's-style "overwhelming electoral bomb"


Peace SanghO hopefully we are on the same side

[sangh0]

6. So when will you drop this nutty idea?

After Election Day?

frankly I think nobody can be better prepared to defeat Bush due to knowledge of the "inside"

You have said that Kerry is part of the PNAC. Now you're denying it and trying to say that Kerry is NOT PNAC but is a "good guy" with inside knowledge.

I do not have any interest in explaining why I believe the Vreeland threat is "real". I believe it is a serious and merits further investigation and scrutiny.

Well, duh!! It's obvious you have no interest in explaining yourself, and it's obvious why not. You've got nothing

Taking the warning seriously is NOT the same as believing it is true.

You just said that Vreeland "must have" been referring to red mercury. How do you know that?

They are investigating

Prove it. You've made a lot of claims that aren't true.

And you're not on my side. I tell the truth

[H2O Man]

7. This is a curious conversation ...

and it seems to be spread over a number of threads.

I think that some people are predisposed to viewing everything in terms of a conspiracy. Thus, when there was a LINK-TV special about the possibility of terrorism and nuclear weapons, it was posted on a thread as if it were evidence in support of Vreeland. I asked if the program had said anything that indicates there is any risk of a nuclear attack being carried out in the USA by the government? Of course, my question wasn't answered. But I think we all know the answer.

With the Plame scandal, we can point to the fact that Wilson, for example, has a solid record, and was even recognized for his service to the country by Bush 1. We know what reports he wrote, and when he wrote them. No one who is hoping for the case to be resolved favors it being done secretly. The threat created by the White House outing a CIA operative is obvious and easily understood.

The Vreeland business is beginning to seem to be distinct from this.

[sangh0]

8. I just want to seperate facts from opinions

There are some here who portray their opinions as facts, and then get worked up when someone asks them for some supporting evidence.

I asked how seventhson KNOWS "this must be" what Vreeland was talking about. I don't see an answer, do you?

We KNOW who Plame is. We have incontrovertible FACTS that prove it.

What are the facts regarding Vreeland? No one wants to say. Not even those who believe him.

Same thing with Schwarz

Same thing with Red Mercury

Same thing with October Surprise

And the same posters, too.

[H2O Man]

9. As a rule of thumb

I do not believe people who say they made a prediction and sealed it in an envelope before an event happened. I've seen nothing that indicates there is any reason to believe the "letter" with the predictions was made before 9-11, and the information that I saw that may have been in the letter is markedly different than what it has been reported to have been on some posts here.

I remain curious about the timing of the legal charges against this fellow. I also question the belief that he was ONI. There are some things in which those who know don't say, and those whjo say don't know.

I would also be interested in a list of the known facts, separate from how people interpret them.

[sangh0]

10. I found out more about that envelope

The promoters of this scam, err, I mean scare, claim that the envelope was sealed, given to the prison guards, and not opened until it was presented in a Canadian court.

It turns out, the envelope was presented in court by VREELAND'S LAWYERS. Somehow, the envelope went from the prison guards to Vreeland's lawyers, but the promoters never mention that.

I wonder why? Very curious.

[H2O Man]

12. That kind of answers that!

I've found that a couple of the people on these threads are good and decent people, and certainly intelligent. But I think that critical thinking is required in these cases. I believe that is what you are trying to say.

I think if we put the actual facts in front of us all, we may come away with some very different opinions. But I think if we are able to strip away the fear, we might find a lot more to agree on.

[sangh0]

13. "Yes" to critical thinking

and I guess a "good and decent" person MIGHT also be against critical thinking. Stranger things have happened.

[H2O Man]

14. I don't think

that a good and decent person can be against critical thinking. That person might at times be held a prisoner to his/her own predisposition to thinking certain things. For example, if a person believes in LIHOP/MIHOP, they are far more likely to view any information regarding a rumor that the same government is planning to allow/cause a nuclear attack in an American city in a less critical manner than someone who does not believe in LIHOP/MIHOP. And people who are not good or decent are aware of this.

[sangh0]

15. Remember, "good and decent"

does not imply "intelligent"

[H2O Man]

17. Correct.

Likewise, when we look at the neocons -- just for one example -- who spread lies and peddle fear, we know that intelligent does not translate to good and decent. I share your concern that rumors twice repeated can be accepted for fact. And that is why I not only respect your asking pointed questions, but am willing to join in the conversation to see if there is any truth to the rumors being repeated on here. A civilized person has the moral obligation, not only to themselves but to others, to be skeptical and to demand proof of any and all statements that claim to be one of truth. Because in the final analysis, all tyranny rests in fraud and deceit, and in convincing people to accept a false assumption on face-value. More, any person who for one moment abandons or suspends that questioning spirit -- especially in regard to a subject such as a nuclear attack on an American city -- has, at that very moment, betrayed all of humanity.

[sangh0]

19. Good words

A civilized person has the moral obligation...to be skeptical and to demand proof of any and all statements that claim to be one of truth. More, any person who for one moment abandons or suspends that questioning spirit -- especially in regard to a subject such as a nuclear attack on an American city -- has, at that very moment, betrayed all of humanity.

Well, we got some of them right here on DU it seems

[T Town Jake]

51. Excellent post...pretty much sums it up. (n/t)

[sangh0]

52. Thanks

:hi:

[seventhson]

42. The program said Terrorists could easily get their hands on nuke material

and could probably easily get it into the US to use in an attack.

SO - it implies that if you have terrorists IN your own government (which many of us believe) then they could use it against us too.


But NO, they did NOT come right out and say that the BFEE was going to attack us. Basically they said ANYBODY WHO WANTED TO probably could.

In my book that includes the BFEE

[seventhson]

40. I never said Vreeland "must have" been referring to red Mercury

again you twist my words until they are unrecognizable for sheerly, it seems, entertainment reasons (or a lame attempt to discredit me)

I SAID re: Kerry that he had at least ONE PNAC advcisor on his campaign which troubled me M)onths and months ago. Given that some CLINTON guys also signed the PNAC stuff, I am not surprises. I NEVER said Kerry is PNAC.

I think you have lost all credibility by claiming things about me that are completely false and easiily provable to be so.

I cannot prove the FBI is investigating I can only say that GB&C told me he was meeting with and had given info to the FBI about Vreeland. I believe him.

Where did I say Kerry was a "good guy" --- twice in this thread you have put quotes arounbd things and attributed them to me with NO evidence of that. Kerry may be a "good guy" . I hope and pray that he is. But I don't believe I ever actually said that anywhere. If I did, so what./

It seems you intend to derail this thread about a serious threat with a Kerry bashing agenda which I think is clear for all to see.

YOU raised the issue of Kerry, PNAC, and Skull and Bones. NOT me.

I think anyone with brains can see why.


But I think this info about the Red Mercury is scary and WE need information abiut it - so I shared.

I read that Vreeland cLAIMED" SOMETHIGN ABOUT RED MERCURY. i have provided links. THAT is the issue here.

I do not CARE if you or anyone here BELIEVES what I say.

But rest assured that I BELIEVE what I say and my concern is VERY REAL.

Finally - If you are a human being - I am on your side --- unless you are against the good of humanity and nature.

That would probably make one a Republican. Are you?

[seventhson]

41. JEEZ - PLEASE Be careful when reading posts trying to discredit me

A LOT of things supposedly attributed to ot said by me are NOT true --- so please ask for evidence.


I think iti is wholely unfair to start a flame war on any thread where serious issues are discussed.

If Red Merdcury exists and Vreeland has warned about the possibility of an attack using it in the US - or by terrorists against US interests anywhere - then we need to know about it.

Blind "Qestioning" to try to disprove or discredit folks here has no place here and skirts if not violates the rules. Arguing the facts or even the credibility of non-Duers is fine IMO. But to say that we abandon humanity when we fail to question the veracity of a warning is ridiculous. We abandon humanity when we fail to investigate the alleged threat to all of us.

Can we try to keep this subject on track?

[sangh0]

47. Why do you think Red Mercury is Vreeland-related?

If you don't want to be questioned so, stop posting links without explaining how and why you think they are relevant.

You have made spectacular claims. I have no idea why you think you should be immune from questioning.

[sangh0]

58. ???

Disappearing again

[The Magistrate]

16. Unfortunately For The Panic-Mongers, Mr. Son

This thing has the reek of a perpetual motion machine about it, at least in its finished "Vreeland" form.

That there exists some form of chemical explosive reacting more powerfully to shock than conventional explosives seems quite possible.

That there is some theoretical possibility such an explosive might prove useable to initiate a small fusion reaction can be treated seriously.

There is, however, no evidence offered that such a device has been perfected, or even attempted.

There is a tremendous disparity between what the scientists quoted in the matter say, and what the true believers claim. Such a weapon, as described by scientists, would have very little blast effect, but produce a deadly effect by generating a sudden burst of intense radiation. The true believers describe a weapon producing a two megaton blast with a lethal shock wave. These are incompatible descriptions, and the latter is contrary to the aim of the weapon described by knowledgeable persons.

There is only bare assertion behind the true believers' claim that this weapon was actually developed by a collaboration between Hussein and Putin's Russia in the last couple of years, and that a Russian delivery system of great sophistication was deployed in its furtherance secretly. Behind this assertion is almost certainly lurking a retrograde political view imagining the U.S. still locked in a death battle with Soviet Communism, the latter having simply concealed itself cleverly in the present-day Russia, Mr. Putin, after all, being a former K.G.B. official.

"Do not keep such an open mind that your brains fall out."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[sangh0]

18. So what are the odds

that seventhson will respond without any name-calling?

[The Magistrate]

20. We Shall See, Sir

Our previous interactions have been more or less reasonable....

"I think I like it fine...so far...."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[sangh0]

21. I guess you were right

We did see!!

[H2O Man]

22. hhhmmmmm......

More unanswered questions ..... reminds me of John Lennon's quote: "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

[sangh0]

23. In the Vreeland thread in LBN

GBnC just said that he received an email changing the location for the attack. A few minutes later, he posted in the same thread saying he received a phone call changing the location for the attack.

[H2O Man]

24. multiple sources......

or a lack of ability to keep a simple story straight.

[seemslikeadream]

25. self delete

[sangh0]

27. Get used to it

because I'm not going away

[sangh0]

29. Why did you delete your own post?

Ashamed?

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangh0]

32. How long before you delete this one?

.

[sangh0]

50. You see?

I knew it would be deleted

[H2O Man]

31. To Friend Seemslikeadream:

You and I have always gotten along well on DU. Though we might not agree on every issue, we have always talked. This isn't something that should get in the way. Keep in touch!

[seemslikeadream]

35. To My Friend H2O Man

I agree. This isn't something that should get in the way. I will keep in touch. Thanks

[H2O Man]

36. That's good.

Thank you, my friend.

In regard to the topic of discussion: I believe that Sangh0 has asked some direct questions -- not of you -- but of two other people on here who are promoting a potentially serious charge ..... and I do not think they have answered him. And as time has gone on, it raises a serious question of why they appear unwilling or unable to answer some direct questions.

What has happened is that there have been some contradictory claims made since, regarding the method of communication of some information, the possible "target," and two people's intentions.

I suspect that you tend to side with those who believe this Vreeland business may have a thread of truth to it. I obviously do not know, but I find most of what is reported here as at best highly suspect in many ways. But then again, I believe that LIHOP/MIHOP are beliefs that can only be supported by refusing to examine all aspects of 9-11, including sources that most DUers might feel are "highly suspect." (grin)

[Sterling]

61. Maybe you could encourage your friend to lighten up?

It's fine to agree with someone but do you really respect the tactics being used?

[H2O Man]

62. By who?

Please think about what it is you are asking me. I'm not saying that as an insult. I try to get along with everyone.

[sangh0]

63. Sterling is following me around

Do a search on his name, and you'll see a number of his posts immediately follow mine.

Maybe that's the tactic he doesn't like. It's against the rules.

[sangh0]

26. GBnC said he received a PHONE CALL from an "over the road trucker"

and he said a freind of his was going to send him an email with more info.

Then, he said he received the info in an email, and another poster claimed it was HER email.

So what happened to the phone call?

BTW, the phone call came just AFTER another poster found info that showed GBnC's first location could not be accurate.

[sangh0]

33. More info on the "armory"

It turns out that the whole idea that an armory was involved began when a poster contacted GBnC with the info that a friend of hers had seen a lot of military trucks on the highway. Some posters immediately assumed that it was a sign of something related to this attack.

It turns out, a lot of the National Guard in the area is being shipped out from that area. This gives me an idea of the standard of evidence the people who vouch for each other are willing to accept.

[sangh0]

34. More info on the armory

There was actually another reason why some got excited about this armory. It's an 80 acre site supposedly covered with equipment that "disappeared" sometime over the last week.

So obviously, it can't be bound for Iraq. It's evidence of a plan.

[T Town Jake]

53. I'd say they're about one in seven...LOL (n/t)

[seventhson]

43. Fair enough - I have said that Vreeland's claim MAY be a Rovian scare

tactic.

The Putin Hussein angle tends to support the contention that that is the case.

However - it does not change the reality that we WERE attacked by someone on 9-11 (whether BFEE, MIHOP, LIHOP or Saudis or ONLY Al Qaeda) and it matters not WHO the perpetrator is if an attack is coming imminently if the goal is to stop it in progress (which is what is allegedly what Vreeland is claiming). We need to try to figure out who might be behind it and STOP it. But finding the operatives and stopping THEM first has to be the goal.

I agree, sir, with most of what you say here though I do not understand the technology enough to know if the claims are incompatible.

Vreweland's alleged claim is four one ton nuke devices. Could they be red mercury? who the hell knows. Who knows for sure if they even exist at all.

I don't.

But the possibiulity makes me dogged in pursuing the story and the truth.

[sangh0]

45. You call that "dogged"???

In a post near the top of this thread, you say you are aware of an article that talks about both Vreeland and Red Mercury but you haven't read it.

That's "dogged"?

[sangh0]

28. So what happened to Seventhson?

He was SO concerned about warning us about this, but since it's been debunked, we haven't seen him.

And why does seventhson insinuate, in the OP, the Vreeland knows "something" about this?

SINCE THIS IS FOUND ON ABOUT.COM IT CAN HARDLY FALL INTO THE CATEGORY OF CT AND IF VREELAND KNEW SOMETHING ABOUT IT, THEN HIS RELIABILITY IMPROVES IMHO.

"If Vreeland knew something about it"? Isn't that curious?

Does Vreeland know ANYTHING about this? Why would seventhson even think that Vreeland might know SOMETHING about this?

[seventhson]

38. Because there is a link AT the about.com red mercury that relates

an association with Vreeland and this alleged technology.

I posted the link for anyone who wants to read the story. I haven't had time to yet.

[seventhson]

39. Here is the Vreeland Red Mercury story by Rense

http://chemistry.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=chemistry&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rense.com%2Fgeneral21%2Fdel.htm

[sangh0]

46. Have you read it?

Do you think it adds or takes away from Vreeland's credibility.

People's lives may be at stake based on whether or not we get this right. I don't understand why you, an experienced investigator and expert on cointelpro, would be so reticent in describing this article.

[sangh0]

48. Why do you regularly disappear

once the questions get tough?

[T Town Jake]

54. He has to check in with Maxwell Smart...

...under the "Cone of Silence" for updates....

[sangh0]

55. So that's where i made my mistake

I thought the Cone of Silence was where he was posting to!!

[Old and In the Way]

67. Now that was funny.................

:-)

One thing I have to say about these Vreeland threads. It's illuminated this issue about the Putin-Hussein connection which I hadn't been aware of. Ties in both the old Commie world domination and the new Iraqi terrorism concepts quite nicely. A Republican two-fer.....

[H2O Man]

56. COINTELPRO

as opposed to "cointelpro."

[sangh0]

57. Hey!! I know I'm right

because someone on the Internet told me so!

[H2O Man]

59. Not only that .....

.... I heard on the internet that you're on the US Supreme Court, serving as the Chief Injustice of black-ops. A person driving a truck with a cell phone e-mailed this in code.

[sangh0]

60. Umm, I can't talk about that

Damned tube is in the way

[lovuian]

64. Twins of Gemini are associated with Mercury God of Trade

How interesting Red Mercury is such a dangerous weapon
and Hermes is another name for Mercury

[sangh0]

65. What's so interesting about that?

.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[peacetalksforall]

68. Seventhson...

you have every right to 'explore' and to throw out what comes to you as possibly related. It would seem that if they thought you were as high in the clouds as they state, they would ignore you.

Their anger and demands are queerly strange. Pretty soon, they will be asking why you didn't say magenta, because it is life and death important to know that red mercury is more magenta than red or - SO HOW COULD YOU HAVE SAID IT WAS RED>>>WHERE ARE YOU>>>WHY DON'T YOU REPLY>>>WHO TOLD YOU IT WAS RED>>>PROVE IT IS RED>>>DID VREELAND SAY IT WAS RED AND NOT MAGENTA>>>WHERE WHEN AND BY PHONE OR E-MAIL...If you can't say which color it actually is, why would you call it red? Since you didn't know it wasn't red, then nothing else you say or put out is credible. Get my point? I haven't followed any of this for two days, but now I find the very same strange demands on someone who appears to me imo) to be sharing opinions and formulating thoughts and links just like everyone else does here all day, every day.

I don't know you or any claims you've made in the past on other threads, but the demands on you here are - very strange. A person has to ask what is so screamingly important about what you're saying or trying to say or sort out - IF - NOTHING of what you say can be credible and must be put down. I don't get it.

It all just goes in circles.

Just my impression. Hope you understand my poor example and poke at the others.

[seemslikeadream]

69. Yes indeed, demands on seventhson here are - very strange

a person might get the impression something else was going on.

[Blue_Tires]

70. he has since been outed and tombstoned

[reorg]

71. what happened to seventhson?

From reading many threads in which he participated I understand that he had certain "ememies" around here but was always able to stay calm and reasonable, even in the face of some pretty ugly tactics.

Interestingly, he seems not to be the only one opposing the war'n'terra who has left here recently.

[Blue_Tires]

72. he actually outed himself as a freep on election night

sent out a bunch of nasty messages...racks up thousands of posts, and acts like he fooled us all or something

[reorg]

73. don't buy one word of it

and I'm totally amazed that anyone would take this seriously, especially those who received these childish little private messages.

Sounds more like some RW dipshit was trying out passwords during election night and was lucky enough to stumble over something.

But hey, got rid of another troublesome conspiracy theorist, so I guess the war faction is bringing out a toast.