Is this an important piece of evidence accidentally let slip?

[Devils Advocate NZ]

Over in LBN there is a thread that pertains to post Sept 11 airline security. It is kind of funny, but kind of scary at the same time. However, there appears to be a slip that may have major implications for Sept 11 research. Here is the thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=106121

In it there is a quote from an article that talks about a man who boxed himself up and had himself airfreighted across the country. In the quote is the line:

McKinley said he took no food or water on the 15-hour journey, just a cell phone, which did not work.

Now, look at that last piece again - his cell phone would not work. Now normally this wouldn't have meant much to me, becuase it could mean he had a faulty phone or whatever. But in search of more information, I clicked the link provided and was surprised to find that the sentence I qoute above has been scrubbed. It now says:

McKinley said he took no food or water on the 15-hour journey.

Federal officials want to know how the stowaway...

Why was the reference to a cell phone not working taken out of an article about a man airfreighting himself across country? It is clear that there can be no confusion that this was a standard cellphone, so why the need to edit out this line?

Could it have something to do with the fact that a lot of the calls from the aircraft on Sept 11 came from standard cell phones?

Is it possible, as some have claimed, that standard cell phones don't work in an aircraft?

I have tried to find another article with the reference to the cell phone, but have not found any. Has anyone else seen an article that mentions this case and the non-working cell phone?

[Spoon]

1. Perhaps,

but the NY corridor is saturated with cell towers, maybe making connecting easier. Plus, this guy was in a shipping container, not exactly a prime spot to get reception. Why scrub the line, though?

Any flyers out there use their cells on flights? (I don't fly)

[ArkDem]

2. Yes, often.

.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

3. I found an article that still mentions the phone...

Here:

http://www.sunspot.net/news/nationworld/bal-te.nat10sep10,0,5810996.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines

When did you use your cell phone? In flight? If so, weren't you concerned about the fact that it is illegal?

However, I will accept your word that cell phones do work when in flight on an airliner, so the question remains, why was the line scrubbed from this article:

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/redir.php?jid=f30c4788efbb8870

[Nottingham]

9. Oh Devil! GREAT JOB! You found it in A MAryland Paper Untouched

Very Kewl!

Ya Wonder why the cell phone was scrubbed! :bounce:

I think its kinda Ironic its from a Philly paper the land of Declaration of Independance

[Nottingham]

6. Why do they tell you to keep the Cell Phones off?

:bounce: Cause they told me on my last flight No Cell phones?

What airline lets you do that?

[ramblin_dave]

8. The reason they want them off

as well as other electronic devices is out of concern that electronic interference may affect airplane navigation and communication systems.

[Nottingham]

11. Like How would they interfere with them!

Ya talking Guidance & Navigation and Auto Pilot stuff!

[Devils Advocate NZ]

4. Could it be any worse than being...

Plus, this guy was in a shipping container, not exactly a prime spot to get reception.

Could it be any worse than being encased in a metal box (ie the airliner's fuselage)?

[ramblin_dave]

7. Passenger plane windows are sufficient

to allow radio operation. Cargo planes ususally have no windows and containers are metal.

The article doesn't make it clear if the cell phone itself wasn't working (e.g. low batteries) or if it was unable to connect to a cell tower.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

13. True...

good point.

However, I was under the impression that the phones don't work not because they are unable to connect to a tower, but, because of their increased range and high speed movement in a high flying airliner, that they connected to too many towers at once, causing an overload in the switching system and resulting in disconnection.

This may be evidence of that theory.

However, my initial excitement has waned somewhat due to the finding of other sources that still mention the phone not working.

Like I said in my original post, what got me excited was not the fact that they said the phone didn't work, but the fact that they scrubbed this from their article.

It seems such an innocuous thing to report UNLESS standard cell phones really don't work under these conditions and "they" didn't want us to know about it.

Still, I am considering removing my tinfoil hat on this one. What initially seemd important now seems only curious - well ate least without any further information that is.

[Nottingham]

5. Ok He got out of the container a couple of times!

So he probably tryed to call out then and not in the container!

I posted this article last night late and I copied and pasted the article like I always do

until It was brought to my attention that the article had been changed since I picked it up last night

I hit the link and sure enough the cell phone line was eliminated since last night! FREAK ME OUT!!

So can anybody explain how if cell phones don't work on a plane how the people on them could call out????

[Abe Linkman]

12. Maybe your cell phone won't work, but you aren't Barbara Olson

"So can anybody explain how if cell phones don't work on a plane how the people on them could call out????"

Sure. You see, Barbara Olson was able to call her husband Ted to tell him all of the most critical facts needed to back-up an Official Story Conspiracy Theory because Ms. Olson had one of those specially-designed, secret cell phones only select GOP VIPs can get.

Aren't you glad to know that? I am, too. Think about it: if Mrs. Olson (or whatever her legal name was) hadn't been able to call Ted, there would be no basis for almost all of the conspiracy theory put out by the U.S. Government.

Boy, I wish I had one of those special, secret cell phones; don't you?

[chascarrillo]

10. Cells work on airplanes

A simple Google search brought up this, from 1989:

http://yarchive.net/phone/airplane_cellular.html

[Devils Advocate NZ]

15. This seems to confirm what I posted above:

As you approach a larger city, such as Chicago, you now illuminate, say
120 or more cellsites, with almost equal intensity. One phone in the
air may cause hundreds of calls to drop on the ground for the above
reasons. Also when you hit "SEND" and initiate a call, you have
a bunch of cellsites all hearing you on the same control channel (impossible
on the ground), and all feeding into the same cellular switch, causing
confusion or maybe even crashing the switch. I never used a cell phone in the
air even close to Chicago for the above reason. My "testing" over Indianapolis
was done before they were big enough to reuse frequencies (I checked first)

Perhaps cell systems have been updated to look for such flooding and disconnect the source before it overloads the system, thus making conversations in high flying airliners impossible?

Doesn't look good for my hypothesis though. :-)

[Nottingham]

17. Well the ? still remain why did Philly paper change their story!

What was the Big deal leaving out the fact on the cell phone and who made the decision to leave that out!

I have another theory on the cell phone! They are Metal and why didn't the scanners see the metal!

And WAs this guy scanned??

Thats some interesting questions too

and I guess if ya wanted to test your theory out Devil is put a cell phone in a crate with the battery on and call and see if you can call it!

Though friends have told me you can call into the plane but not out!

[seafan]

14. Here are a couple more sources referring to the cell phone.

I had just put these in the other thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=106121#106978

But here they are as well:

Quote----

DALLAS (AP) — Charles McKinley had himself shipped from New York to Dallas in an airline cargo crate, startling his parents — and a deliveryman — when he broke out of the box outside their home.

"My husband asked him, `Man, what are you doing in this crate?' He said he was coming home," his mother told KDFW-TV in Dallas.

Federal officials want to know how the stowaway bypassed airport security.

McKinley, 25, a shipping clerk from New York, was arrested and jailed on unrelated bad-check and traffic charges after his overnight odyssey. Federal officials are considering additional charges of stowing away on a plane.

In a rambling jailhouse interview, McKinley told KXAS-TV in Dallas that he made the trip because he was homesick and a friend thought he could save money by flying as cargo. McKinley said he took no food or water on the 15-hour journey, just a cell phone, which did not work.

"I'm sitting there thinking, `Oh God, I don't know why I'm doing this,'" he said. "I'm sitting there thinking like any minute somebody will notice that there's somebody sitting inside this crate. ... No one did."

Before setting out, McKinley filled out shipping instructions saying the crate held a computer and clothes. Authorities believe he had help from at least one co-worker at the warehouse where he works in New York when he loaded himself in the box.
---End Quote

more...

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2003/09/10-stowaway.htm



And another source:

Quote---

According to McKinley, over the two days and 15 hours in the crate, he got out a couple of times to stretch his legs. He described the journey as cold and uncomfortable.

McKinley said he had no food or water inside the crate, just a cell phone. He said he tried, unsuccessfully, to call his family.

The wayward traveler also said the trip was the worst ride of his life and that he thought he might die before reaching home.

"You might think it's a cheap way home. You might think it's a decent ride. That is the worst ride you could ever go through," McKinley said. "You have crates slamming against each other. You have people yelling and screaming, pushing crates, slamming them up against each other, and you don't know ... what could fall from where. And you have to look at it as ... really think of it as more of a safety issue."

McKinley's family said they did not know about his haphazard journey, and that it seemed like they were watching a movie when he unexpectedly jumped out of the crate.
---End Quote

http://www.nbc5i.com/news/2465512/detail.html

[Devils Advocate NZ]

16. Thanks for reposting here...

I didn't want to appear to be taking credit for your work, but I felt it important that these be added to this thread so as to keep the whole conversation in one place.

Also want to say thanks to nottingham for posting the original article and then not getting bent all out of shape because of my thread-jacking :-)

[Nottingham]

18. Ok I just went to Big News where I got the article and it has been scrubbe

and replaced with this!

US Cargo Companies Lag Behind in Security Efforts


http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=6673CCE9-A65C-4E13-B82FC91DE6DF058A&title=US%20Cargo%20Companies%20Lag%20Behind%20in%20Security%20Efforts

The point is Cargo Security is LAX and this is kinda telling ya that!

[Old and In the Way]

19. A similar situation on the Comfort Inn story I posted yesterday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=2327

The story about the manager explains why she's had difficulties since 9/11 (this was the place where 2 of the hijackers spent the evening of 9/10)...in it she has questions that are quite valid.

AP picked up the story, but omitted very pertient details.....this is posted on the thread too.

Wht would 2 hijackers spend the night 100 miles from Logan and risk missing their connection or risk going through 2 sets of security?

[WoodrowFan]

20. NO

Cell phones work in airplanes...

"Although airline passengers are warned against using their mobile phones in flight, it's fairly well-known that private airplane pilots often use regular cellular and PCS phones, even if it is illegal. Not quite as well-known, however, is that people have used their wireless phones to make surreptitious calls from the bathrooms of airliners."


http://www.bartcop.com/081703pilot.htm

http://www.planwireless.com/cell_phones_on_airplanes.htm

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-11-501431.html?legacy=zdnn

http://www.wirelessweek.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA160201

http://www.panix.com/~dictum/news/telecom/Cell_phones_on_planes.html

http://www.geocities.com/american_epals/flight93.html

[Nottingham]

21. So it doesn't bother the Navigation or guidance systems

If they call out on their phones Right!

If they call in the bathrooms then Nobody knows they are using it and No problems with the instrumentation

[ramblin_dave]

22. Low probability of a problem doesn't mean there's no problem

Many electronic devices are capable or emitting radio interference. Airlines ask you to turn off your laptop and other electronic devices during takeoff and landing to eliminate the small chance or a problem when reaction time is short. Radios are not permitted at anytime.

The probability of a problem from any of these devices is very low. Probably no one can say what the real risk level is since there is such a wide variety of electronic products that would need to be tested. So better to be safe than sorry.

[DulceDecorum]

23. PR Alert

In 2001, Stroupe handled 167 different media market contacts including the Los Angeles Times, NBC News, Wall Street Journal, NBC Dateline, New York Times, 60 Minutes II, Discovery Channel, Good Morning America, History Channel, BBC, and the Learning Channel.
Stroupe undertook several major media projects in 2001. For example, "The Miracle of the Pentagon" was a 14.5-minute segment aired on 60 Minutes II on Nov. 28. It profiled ERDC's antiterrorism building design measures that saved lives during the Pentagon attack on Sept. 11.
Immediately after the Sept. 11 attacks, Stroupe volunteered to assist emergency operations in New York city. He averaged more than 100 media calls a day during his deployment, and wrote articles about the Corps' response to this federal emergency.
http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/pubs/may02/story15.htm

You will recall that that Cote & D'Ambrosio is very closely linked to the Engineer Research and Development Center (ERDC).

CHALLENGE: Working for a client in the protective glazing industry, Cote & D'Ambrosio recognized as a serious problem the lack of awareness about protective glazing technologies. This product protects against flying glass hazards, most dangerous when caused by terrorist bombings or natural disasters.
SOLUTION: Cote & D'Ambrosio recognized the Oklahoma City bombing as a focal point in American history as well as a painful example of the deadly role played by flying glass. To help raise awareness of the deadly effects of flying glass and to promote greater preparedness for terrorist attacks, Cote & D'Ambrosio created the Protecting People First Foundation. The agency enlisted the support of Aren Almon-Kok, mother of Oklahoma City bombing victim Baylee Almon, one of 19 children killed in the attack. Knowing that the image of her daughter being carried from the Murrah Federal building will forever be associated with the Oklahoma City bombing, Almon-Kok joined the foundation as its national spokeswoman to ensure that some good comes out of her daughter's tragic death. With the support and direction of Cote & D'Ambrosio, Almon-Kok travels the country, meeting with elected officials, and building grass-roots awareness of flying glass hazards and the remedies available to protect the public from this danger. Through her work with the Foundation, Almon-Kok hopes to transform the image of her daughter from a symbol of the Oklahoma City bombing into a symbol of enhanced safety in America.
http://www.30brownst.com/publicrelationpgT.html

This public realtions firm is EXTREMLY well connected.

CHALLENGE: N.W. Ayer was hired by the U.S. Government to help the Army reshape its image. Since President Nixon had ended the draft, voluntary enlistment, the only source of new soldiers for America's largest military branch, was falling.
SOLUTION: N.W. Ayer brought in Ken D'Ambrosio to serve as a key leader on the creative team developing the Army's new image. As a former Army combat photographer, D'Ambrosio was deeply familiar with the Army and its culture. D'Ambrosio and his creative team quickly observed that the Army's recruiting methods were off target. By featuring soldiers with blackened faces in combat gear, the Army contributed to the prevailing perception that it was an institution solely devoted to waging war. The fundamental shift D'Ambrosio and his team convinced the Army to make involved changing the Army's image from solely a training ground for fighting men into a military force that also offered unlimited opportunity for new soldiers. The ultimate success of the, "Be All You Can Be" campaign, came nearly two years after its launch, when Army recruiters began to turn away prospective recruits because enlistment targets had been met.
http://www.30brownst.com/consumerpgT.html
http://www.30brownst.com/partnerpgT.html

Listen closely to them and you could very easily end up disabled, homeless and despised.

Now, Mr. Wayne Stroupe is cut of the same cloth.
He recieved his award basically because he ensured that 167 media contacts all said the same thing at the same time. Now we have a few links above pertaining to the "fact' that cell phones can be used within aircraft flying at high altitudes. A quick look will show that two of the sites are quoting the same author and are basically the same article. This is how Wayne Stroupe earns his keep.
The author hails from the Wall Street Journal which is one of the media contacts known to be on the rolodex of Wayne Stroupe.
http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/dowjones.asp

One of the other articles is put out by a person from Reed Elsevier.
Take a look at what that company controls.
http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/reed.asp

Because public relations people work so closely with the media there is often a great deal of exchange between these fields. Many PR people become journalists to exercise more creativity;
(AS IN CREATIVE WRITING=PURE FICTION)
a number of journalists turn to public relations for better money. (AKA MEDIA WHORES)
PR people also often go into marketing, particularly at the more senior levels.
(AS IN MADAM LaPIMP-DU-JOUR)
http://www.princetonreview.com/cte/profiles/dayInLife.asp?careerID=171

Therefore people, you are MUCH better off looking through scientific materials and talking to people who actually conduct experiments. Don't bother listening to nice stories and be extremely suspicious of anything that is nicely packaged with a definte beginning, middle, and end and has all the answers in the back.
And above all USE YOUR HEAD.

Those of you aho have followed The Pentagon Thread know that many of the September 11th articles look very plausible until you put them next to other articles.
Then the whole thing falls apart like a soap opera where a child born in April is drinking and driving by Thanksgiving.

[LearnedHand]

24. Yep.

Article I saw mentioned his non-working cellphone. Don't remember where I read it, though. I'll try to find the link.

[Abe Linkman]

25. Sounds like disinfo to me

This sounds like nothing more than a PR effort to divert questions about the validity of Ted Olson's fairy tales about his wife's alleged cell phone calls from FL 77 - calls which supposedly ended only at the moment that all aboard went to Jesus, or the House of 72 Virgins.

The PR idea here is to reassure supporters of the Official Version Conspiracy Theory ("see - it IS possible that Barbara could have called Ted; just like we've said all along."). And the rest of us will now have to "contend" with anecdotal evidence that suggests at least the possibility of calls from FL 77. "So, move along poison girls. You don't need to be wasting time asking pesky questions about the CONTENTS of those alleged phone calls."

btw - what's the deal with Barbara Olson's fuzzy marital biography?

[DulceDecorum]

26. For whom the wedding bells toll

OK, since you brought it up, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that a lot of the people listed as victims do not seem to have left much info about themselves BEFORE September 11, 2001.

Just for your own edification, count up how many times you encounter the assertion that the September 11 victim had only just started working there.
Cruel cynics might argue that this line is a great cover just in case regulars start saying that they never ever ever saw that person there BEFORE September 11 and have no idea who that person is.

Moody, 43, was one of three people in her office of 34 who survived the Sept. 11 attack on the Pentagon. She talked about what happened that day and what it's been like for her since.
"I came into work that day at 6:30," she said. "IT WAS MY SECOND DAY ON THE JOB, so I was still taking care of a lot of administrative things. I'd met LOUISE KURTZ in the personnel office that Monday. BOTH OF US WERE STARTING WORK THAT DAY. While we were talking, I learned she used to live in Rome, N.Y.
"Her husband was in the AIR FORCE and was stationed at Griffiss Air Force Base, where I had worked. SHE WORKED WITH A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THAT I HAD JUST LEFT TWO DAYS EARLIER. IT WAS REALLY STRANGE THAT SHE AND I HAD KIND OF TRAVELLED THE SAME CIRCLE AND THEN BOTH OF US ENDED UP AT THE PENTAGON STARTING OUT THAT DAY, AND THAT BOTH OF US SURVIVED AND ARE HERE TO TELL THE STORY.
http://www.defendamerica.mil/profiles/sep2002/pr091002a.html

BY 7:30 a.m., MOODY HAD COMPLETED THE LAST OF HER EMPLOYMENT PAPERWORK ALONG WITH KURTZ, WHO WAS ALSO A NEW HIRE. Kurtz, Moody found out that morning, used to live in Rome when her husband was stationed at the former Griffiss Air Force Base.
Moody and Kurtz chatted about mutual Rome acquaintances as they walked back to the accounting office together, and stopped for coffee.
About 9:40 a.m., Kurtz stopped by Moody’s cubicle to tell her that two planes had crashed into the World Trade Center, a suspected act of terrorism. Kurtz then walked to the nearby fax machine.
Ten seconds later, a Boeing 757 ripped through the walls of their first-floor office.
“A burst of hot air hit my face,” Moody said. “It was so powerful that I shut my eyes. When I opened them, a ball of fire passed right next to me. It was so close, I could have stuck my arm out and touched the flames.”
Still, Moody remained seated at her desk. After the explosion, there was only quiet and the stink of jet fuel, she said. Burning office fixtures created a trap — there was no obvious way out for the two women in an office where the fire’s temperature reached 1,600 degrees.
http://www.uticaod.com/news/specialreports/911anniversary/sept11/moody.htm

See what I mean?
But don't cry, Louise may have suffered tenth degree burns from 1,650 degree heat,
she may have lost her freckled ears,
and her fingers with the two carat diamond ring,
and they are most reluctant to give this woman early retirement,
but she did leave the hospital just before Christmas
and

Her hair is growing well, soft brown and feathered, with highlights, and most of the time it hides the place where her ears used to be, where now there is only a slender ridge of cartilage. In August, a specialist made her new prosthetic ears.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A59240-2002Sep9¬Found=true

Barbara Bracher FirstHusband Olson made the rounds all right.
She cut a wide swathe BEFORE September 11, 2001.
Pity she didn't decide to spend THE ENTIRE DAY in the general vicinity of her husband, seeing as how IT WAS HIS BIRTHDAY.
Or maybe leaving was her way of being nice.

Either way, her bio appears to have been fitted by the same tailoring house that crafted the outfit of one Tommy Franks. And the Olson wedding seems (as far as I have been able to determine to date) to have been a quiet affair with no guests or witnesses.

[Abe Linkman]

27. Pentagon hiring policy (LIFO)

Last in, first out (so to speak). I can imagine them actually chuckling over that one. Seniority is the military way, after all.

I assume you've tried to determine when and where Ted and Babs were united in Holy Matrimony. Did Ted have his fingers crossed when he made his vows?

[DulceDecorum]

31. Barbara and Tom

NORTHPORT — At the end of Isle View Road, on the shores of Lake Michigan, stands a single bench inscribed with her name.
<snip>
Friends and neighbors placed the memorial bench at the end of Isle View Road, not far from the family cottage. It is also inscribed with the name of Tom Hoffman, another neighbor who died a year before the Sept. 11 horrors.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/news/911/911_5810672.shtml

That may be as good as it gets.
Unless you can make any sense out of the results of this race which gives a location and an almost perfectly correct age for our mystery girl.

O'All TIME S AGE NAME CITY
150 31:55 M 32 TOM HOFFMAN PHILA PA
138 30:10 F 46 BARBARA OLSON NORRISTOWN PA
http://users.erols.com/runadvte/eagles005Ka.htm

There is nothing - so far - to indicate that Barbara ever did get married to Ted or anyone else, or that she ever did get a divorce from Mr. FirstHusband.
But then again, I haven't yet had the occasion to grub my through the marriage licenses of several states.
Anyhow, she is still riding high on the hog.
http://www.stthom.edu/press_releases/041802.html

[Abe Linkman]

32. 9-11 "Heroine" (proof: GOP really is inclusive - some sinners welcome)

Well, of all things. I've long wondered about Barbara. Something just never seemed quite "right" about that girl. And Ted's genetic pool is the same one that Hunter Thompson crawled out of.

[Dancing_Dave]

28. This is a job for physics911.org

Check 'em out:
http://physics911.org/911
:think:

[shatoga]

29. thank for the link

,,,,

[jmcgowanjm]

30. Specific Cellphone link from sight

...Thus, it seems safe to say that no cell phone
of any type could have established any stable
connection to any cell site at that speed, no
matter which height the planes flew at.

http://www.physics911.org/911/index.php/articles/6

Thanx for link info-Dancing_Dave

[Devils Advocate NZ]

33. This is the kind of thing I expected...

My limited knowledge of cellular networks leads me to believe that problem is one of range - at ground level a cell phone does not have much range, and thus there needs to be pretty dense concentrations of towers. When you move from the reception area of one tower to another, a switch must take place where the old tower relinquishes control to the new tower.

At a high enough altitude and high enough speed, the 'footprint' of the cell phone will be so large and moving so fast that it will cause many more towers to attempt to take over the call simultaneously, resulting in conflict within the switching software.

This conflict can cause many calls to be dropped and other undesirable effects, so the software is programmed to avoid such issues by dropping the call causing the conflict.

It's not that the cell phone doesn't have enough range - in fact it has too much range - and it is not that a connection can't be established, what happens is that the network gets overloaded by the phone apparently (to the network that is) being in many places at once.

Thus long conversations seem to be impossible, even if a short one were able to take place before the conflict in the network caused it to disconnect the offending call.

This is why it was interesting to me to see an apparent "scrubbing" of information about a non-working cell phone.