NYCCAN'T - Ballot Measure Rejected

[Bolo Boffin]

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0907/S00455.htm

That's a press release from NYCCAN, the group behind the petition drive to get an independent investigation off the ground in New York, at least.

Some clerk threw it out. No reason was given. NYCCAN screams in capital letters for a while and then provides its donation link. $25 for a button?

They're going to sue, of course, if they sell enough buttons to file.

[SDuderstadt]

1. Oh, Jesus....

Subdivisions is just going to shit.

[Subdivisions]

11. If I didn't see this coming, I might...

I said they would succeed. I didn't say it would be easy. I'm not surprised in the least. I also just sent them a donation.

I wish NYCAN all the best.

[Ohio Joe]

2. odd

It does not say why it was denied. I'm sure it is just that the clerk is in on it (how big is this conspiracy now?) but I would be curious to know the reason given. I expect it will explain why the release did not mention it.

[Bolo Boffin]

3. Yes.

Presumably they were given a reason.

[KDLarsen]

4. I do believe this might be the reason:

From their own FAQ:

Q: If I signed the petition in 2008, is my signature still valid in 2009?

Yes. Each of the 30,000+ signatures collected in 2008 remain valid until the signer is no longer a registered voter in New York City.

Doesn't these type of petitions have to collect all the signature within the same election cycle?

[Bolo Boffin]

6. Yep! Sounds like it to me.

Silly 9/11 Truth Movement.

[procopia]

5. NYCCAN'T

Democracy denied. (Applause)

[Bolo Boffin]

7. No, democracy enforced. n/t

[wildbilln864]

9. you think denying people...

an opportunity to vote on an issue is democracy enforced!?
:crazy:

[Bolo Boffin]

10. I think making cranks follow the rules laid down by a democratic society

is democracy enforced.

[procopia]

15. These are not "cranks," they are victims and family members

Executive Council:

Donna Marsh O’Connor, Mother of Vanessa Lang Langer
Bob Mcilvaine, Father of Bobby Mcilvaine
Jean Canavan, Sister in law of Sean Canavan
Edith Beaujon, First Responder
Janette MacKinlay, Survivor
William Rodriguez, Survivor

[Bolo Boffin]

16. The PDFs of the clerk's letter explains the facts beyond NYCCANned's hype.

Seems that there were quite a few less signatures on the petitions that NYCCAN is broadcasting. And of over 24,000 of the ones that they have, the main reason for rejecting them is that the people didn't register to vote in the last election.

Democracy has rules. Follow the rules.

[snooper2]

51. just because you are a victim or family member...

doensn't deny you the ability to be a crank as well

[procopia]

52. Does that justify calling someone a crank?

Because one has the "ability" to be one?

[Bolo Boffin]

53. No, being a crank justifies calling someone a crank. n/t

[whatchamacallit]

8. I know

Pathetic.

[Subdivisions]

12. 'NYCCAN screams in capital letters for a while and then provides

its donation link.'

So? Obama took donations. Now he's the President.

[KDLarsen]

13. Here's the actual reason

Courtesy of BigAl over at the JREF

[procopia]

14. OCT defenders should welcome a new investigation

I don't understand their celebration of this petition rejection. It makes no sense.

[greyl]

17. Follow the money.

Whose pockets were filled with the dollars given to NYCCAN?
You should be outraged at the selfish incompetence of these particular "truthers".

[Bolo Boffin]

18. Here's a little CT thinking for you...

Maybe the people organizing this petition drive submitted this mess of a petition to keep litigation and hat and button sales going? Hey, just asking questions....

[greyl]

19. That's a very plausible theory.

I demand an investigation.

[procopia]

20. Investigations are good

At least those that are unbiased, thorough, and transparent.

[procopia]

22. GREAT IDEA

Let's follow the money for 9/11 itself:

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/FIT403A.html

[greyl]

25. The topic is the NYCCAN for-profit scam.

Follow that money and get back to us.

[procopia]

28. If you claim NYC CAN is a scam, you must have some proof, right?

Right? :shrug:

[Bolo Boffin]

29. Hey, just asking questions.

Got a problem with just asking questions and seeking an independent review?

[procopia]

30. You must have SOME basis for "asking questions"

Because your "analogy" falls flat without one.

[Bolo Boffin]

31. Um, excuse me?

***looks about***

I am in the September 11th forum, aren't I?

[procopia]

32. Here's the basis for asking 9/11 questions

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=259246&mesg_id=259246

[Bolo Boffin]

35. And here's the basis for asking questions about NYCCAN

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=258821&mesg_id=259325

[greyl]

36. Must I? You think they were just incredibly incompetent?

Find out who profited from this fiasco, and you'll know who should be sent to jail.

[procopia]

37. Find out who should be sent to jail for what? What was the crime?

Since we only have one side of the story, we don't know if the NYC CAN organization was incompetent, or if NYC officials were simply blocking a petition in any way they possibly could because they can't allow it on the ballots. Just for starters, we already know know they would never allow it on the ballots.

[Bolo Boffin]

38. "they would never allow it on the ballots" because of the listed reasons that the petition

is totally whacked.

You have not yet tried to address the serious deficiencies in that petition as listed by the clerk. Why is that?



Deal with Page 2, procopia.

[procopia]

39. Why are you ASSuming the clerk's claims are valid?

I'm waiting for both sides of the story.

[Bolo Boffin]

40. Present evidence that they are not - Deal with Page 2. n/t

[procopia]

41. How many signatures were disqualified?

How do we know if they were appropriately disqualified for the reasons cited? I don't have that evidence and neither do you.

[Bolo Boffin]

42. Deal with Page 2. n/t

[procopia]

45. Over 24,000 nt

[AZCat]

46. That's not a very good question, though.

A better question is: how does the percentage of signatures disqualified compare with other petitions? An even better question is when will the organizers of the petition drive correct the deficiencies listed by the clerk?

[Bolo Boffin]

47. "Over 24,000" doesn't deal with page 2. n/t

[procopia]

48. Do you think

you can dictate what I "deal with"? I'm not a lawyer, and neither are you, so neither of us can really address "page 2."

[Bolo Boffin]

49. Run, run, run. n/t

[procopia]

50. whatever nt

[whatchamacallit]

21. Total pants-pissing fear

No matter what they claim: "We have all the information we need for the(our) truth"... it's obvious they fear a real investigation like the plague.

[Bolo Boffin]

24. A "real" investigation?

Could you explain for all of us how a group with the severe flaws indicated in the clerk's letter (page 2) could really investigate anything but the wallets of those daft enough to contribute to it?

[whatchamacallit]

43. Why pretend the efficacy of this group is the issue

You were of course against the idea the minute you heard about the petition. Well in advance of learning of any flaws you're fixating on now. Doesn't matter who asks the questions, you simply don't want them asked.

[Bolo Boffin]

44. Stop attacking me and my motives - deal with Page 2. n/t

[AZCat]

23. Why should we welcome another one?

Is there any evidence it will be worth the money and time spent?

[procopia]

26. Confirmation

You spend hours on this thread trying to convince people how right you are. If a truly independent investigation confirmed the OCT, that could only be a victory for you. Wouldn't you love that?

[Bolo Boffin]

27. Please explain how a commission with the deficiencies enumerated in the clerk's letter

could investigate anything competently. Thanks.

[CrawlingChaos]

33. Exactly procopia!

Look at the countless hours the usual line-up of "debunkers" spend arguing this topic. If they honestly believe they're correct, common sense dictates they should rejoice at the thought of more information coming to light and all the ensuing vindication and pwnage.

If they really want the Truth Movement to dry up and go away, surely they'd be thrilled by vigorous investigative efforts that would put the TM's claims to the test.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[AZCat]

34. You know as little about my motivations for posting here...

as you do science and engineering.

Regardless, I seriously doubt that an investigation that confirmed the results of previous investigations would do much to silence the yammering of conspiracy theorists.