Rumsfeld makes 9/11 gaffe - "people who shot down plane over PA"

[NAO]

Many 9/11 researchers have maintained for quite awhile that Flight 93 was shot down by the US Military.

Rumsfeld seemed to confirm this in an odd statement:

...

"DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: And to change that way of living, would strike at the very essence of our country."

"And I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten -- indeed the word "terrorized" is just that. Its purpose is to terrorize, to alter behavior, to make people be something other than that which they want to be."

...

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/24/nfcnn.01.html

[MissBrooks]

1. Yikes....

I read that - yep, that's what it says.

[NYC]

2. Well done.

Save that transcript.

On NY1 television that day, they said the plane was shot down, and then retracted it saying they were now told the plane was NOT shot down.

[Rene]

35. old internet data

I'm wondering why the whatreallyhappened.com web site's last update is Dec 15th and the bushreport.com website's last update is Dec 11th. Does anyone else have that problem or know why they're not showing more current info?

[NYC]

53. Could it be holiday vacations?

Perhaps they are handled by a small number of people.

[lizzieforkerry]

3. I have no doubt they shot that plane down.

There is no way we could have been that incompetent

[jdj]

62. they who??

Rumsfeld seems to be implying that the terrorists did it.
I gathered from hints Richard Clarke has dropped repeatedly that the U.S. did this.

How very strange.

[NAO]

4. This is HUGE for the 9/11 Truth Community

A major slip for Rumsfeld. The narrative about the passengers taking over the plane was very inspiring, and gave us a slogan for the "War on Terror" (Let's Roll), but the evidence does not seem to bode well for this episode of the official story. That this did not happen exactly as described is fairly certain.

Speculation ranges from NORAD finally got around to responding (fits the 'incompetence' theme) to the passengers did in fact re-capture the plane, and thereby risked exposing 9/11 as an Inside Job (fits the strong US complicity theme).

Anyway, Rumsfeld's quip is going to result in much discussion. I'm sure Rummy will pull a Reagan and claim senility.

[merh]

12. Wasn't there a pilot on that flight?

I remember watching an interview with a sister of one of the guys on that plane that said her brother was a pilot and could have flown the plane. :shrug:

Things that make you go hmmmmmm

[jayctravis]

14. let them all claim senility.

I can't think of a better reason to contest leaders of an administration. Bush got a pass on saying he saw the first plane hit.

If they're senile, get them out. That's my main beef with Bush. If he's making verbal gaffes to us, how can he possibly communicate with other nations?

[Dancing_Dave]

23. Rumsfeld slipped up and mentioned the missle that hit the Pentagon too!

The guy is an obvious Freudian basket case.

[Slit Skirt]

31. was the statement about the missile

just recently...do you have a link?

[RedSock]

41. rumsfeld says missle

Not recently -- actually it was one month after 9/11:

From the Department of Defense's own website: "Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center. The only way to deal with this problem is by taking the battle to the terrorists, wherever they are, and dealing with them."

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2001/t11182001_t1012pm.html

[Slit Skirt]

49. that really kind of makes it more credible

they didn't have all the lies memorized yet!

thanks for the link

[Syrinx]

5. but he seems to suggest that the plane was shot down by al-Qaeda

Unless he is suggesting that 9/11 and the Madrid bombings were carried out by the US government...

[bahrbearian]

8. That what I thought too.The whole diatribe was about evil doer's

[TahitiNut]

18. He does seem to mix his "evil doers" and "evil doees" ...

... unless the slip also betrayed that much of this is MIHOP instead of just LIHOP. I've firmly believed this criminal madministration is up to its eyeballs in complicity with terrorist events since the instant the first plane hit. I predicted they'd have such an event as an excuse to go to war back in September 2000.

[KoKo]

47. He must be having a heck of a time keeping his stories straight at this

poin! :crazy:

[Debbie13]

80. I said the same thing, "he's going to get us in a war."

[leveymg]

27. Unless Al-Qaeda Is a USG Front Operation . . . Naw, Couldn't Be

true. There's an interesting article in today's NYT.

hope you didn't have too much Xmas cheer last night. This will sober you up:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/26/international/a <...>

NYT
December 26, 2004
As Nuclear Secrets Emerge, More Are Suspected
By WILLIAM J. BROAD and DAVID E. SANGER



SNIP "they had had Dr. Khan under surveillance for nearly three decades."
SNIP "In fact, officials were so confident they had accurately taken his measure, that twice - once in the late 1970's and again in the 1980's - the Central Intelligence Agency persuaded Dutch intelligence agents not to arrest Dr. Khan because they wanted to follow his trail, according to a senior European diplomat and a former Congressional official who had access to intelligence information. The C.I.A. declined to comment."

Fact is, Agency covert operators protected Khan and several of the principal 9/11 hijackers. They all would have been arrested by law enforcement long before they had a chance to complete their missions.

Starting to see a pattern here?

Criminal negligence, reckless endangerment at the very least. When are we going to see a grand jury - AFTER they nuke DC and NYC?

[Slit Skirt]

63. that's why they call it CIA-Al-qaeda oem

[mattclearing]

58. But that couldn't possibly be true, could it?

:eyes:

[proud patriot]

6. wow , just the other day a DUer was asking about this gaff

or slip of the truth if you will .

[rsmith6621]

7. I wonder What The Freepers are Thinking

Has anyone taken this BUFU to them???????

[kskiska]

15. Here's what they're thinking

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1308028/posts

To: null and void

What was the context though?

He may just mean "the people who destroyed the flight in Pennsylvania" and it's a slip of the tongue.

4 posted on 12/24/2004 10:06:59 AM PST by mhx

--------------------

To: null and void

Probably just said the wrong words.

5 posted on 12/24/2004 10:08:24 AM PST by AVNevis (Merry Christmas and a happy new term)

--------------------

To: null and void
You know good and well what he meant. The man has got to be exhausted. He's been going since yesterday and has a punishing schedule trying to see all the troops he can. He's gone into the most dangerous parts of Iraq to thank the troops for Christmas.

Your comment is unworthy.
13 posted on 12/24/2004 10:17:25 AM PST by McGavin999 (Senate is trying to cover their A$$es with Rumsfeld hide)

[Ms_Mary]

43. They will excuse away absolutely anything, won't they? It's unbelievable.

[mattclearing]

57. They are dumb as bricks. The willfully ignorant deserve no pity.

I think they are believing whatever they want to believe. Their willful suspension of disbelief is amazing though, isn't it?

[Contrary1]

68. Here's my personal favorite, since I have been accused of the same...

To: DoughtyOne
Who gives a flying F***?
Anything stated by the seditious people in America, for the purpose of aiding the enemy in a time of war, should result in an immediate arrest for their actions.

It is then their legal burden, to prove that they were not providing aid to the enemy in a time of war.

My wife's sister falls into this catagory. She should be arrested immediatly!

[louis-t]

77. 'Mis-spoke' again.

[old blue]

78. Be sure to check out "Hunble's" contribution to that thread n/t

[demodonkey]

9. I Have a Friend Who Says She actually Saw Flt. 93 Go Over on 9/11...

with two much smaller planes chasing it.

This from an educated woman, owner of a small business in the sciences, and not a flake.




Your mileage may vary.

[Skink]

10. Is this the real reason they have to shut Rummy up...

Just imagine the book he could write.

[daleo]

13. Maybe he made this slip on purpose

To remind the rest of the Bushies that he has the potential to do them great harm if they decide to fire him.

[Prodemsouth]

76. There ya go!- that is it thats what is behind the slip- but it will be

reported if at all- as just a slip.

[Nothing Without Hope]

79. That was my first thought as well

If he is sharp-minded instead of out-of-it, which is the other main possibility IMO, he could be reminding the cartel that he knows where all the bodies are buried. He has retained *'s support despite all his failures and the pressure to remove him. Yes, * has a reputation for blindly supporting loyalists, but he also has to know that Rummy has become a political burden. Interesting that Rummy's "gaffe" should come when the pressure to remove him has been building from both parties.

All the possible explanations are ugly... and believable.

[NYC]

16. I've heard that before.

She's not the only one who reported it.

[RandomKoolzip]

11. I heard the tail end of NPR's report about this on Friday....

And wasn't sure that I was hallucinating or not.

When I got home and there were no threads on DU about it, I was pretty sure my mind was playing tricks on me.

But now....I'm kinda shocked. He really DID say it.

Oh my god.

[HR_Pufnstuf]

17. oopss..

[cliss]

19. Wow. Good catch, N.

I've been saying lately that RumsFool is our new best friend. In his old age, he's starting to get VERY close to the truth. He's actually quite predictable. He lies, but in-between the lies, there is the truth, like diamonds scattered across his statements.

So now he's saying that "someone" shot down the plane over Pennsylvania. Wow, this is such Freudian slips it's just unbelievable.

Either they're going to shut this guy up once and for all, or he's going to tell us everything we wanted to know about this administration.

GO RUMMY.

[jmcgowanjm]

56. Rumsfeld's Rules

It’s not that the Pentagon thought that by removing the
document from its site, this would somehow kill it. The Web
is too fecund for that. But something odd happened to
the document a year ago. According to a Website
that specializes in PDF, the most widely used document
format for the Internet, Rumsfeld’s rules were updated
on September 11, 2001. Even more incredibly, the "Doc
Info" data file indicated that this document had been
updated one hour before the plane hit the
Pentagon.

Sometime after September 11, the document was removed
from the Pentagon’s site. The PDF Website has posted the
Feb. 20, 2001 version of "Rumsfeld’s
Rules."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north125.html

[Al-CIAda]

72. incredible. I didn't know that detail on the updating hours before

"Rumsfeld’s rules were updated
on September 11, 2001. Even more incredibly, the "Doc
Info" data file indicated that this document had been
updated one hour before the plane hit the
Pentagon."

-amazing indeed

[jdots]

20. By the time most of this country figures out 9/11

it will be too late.

[Slit Skirt]

33. we have less than 4 yrs to figure it out

my theory is that the scheduled terrorist attack will happen before or very close to the 2008 elections...then martial law, suspend the constitution, and bush stays in power because they can't hold elections

[leQ]

45. why would that even be necessary?

they now know they have the election system all sewn up.

[Slit Skirt]

48. this is true....but bush wants to be king..and in power

globalism and he wants to be on top

[jmcgowanjm]

51. Because the world is Redlining the US

"The initial data available so far reveals the dirtiness
of U.S.-British warmongers, the fakeness of their claims
about
a clean war, as well as their indifference to the lives of
innocent, unarmed Iraqi civilians." The indictment
comes,
not from Baghdad or Kuala Lumpur, but from the
Foreign Minister of Switzerland. Micheline Calmy Rey, of
the ruling Socialist Democratic Party, explained that her
country has an obligation to document war crimes as "a
founder and a sponsor of the Geneva
Convention."

http://www.blackcommentator.com/36/36_cover_story.html

The only countries that can be hit
by DoD/Mossad/SAS are the US, Israel/UK.
Because every Intel Op worth it's salt
is watching out for these folks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Now theh question is how long until

Rummy goes kayaking down the Potomac and is found dead from a heart attack.... like William Casey?

[dave123williams]

75. Casey died of a stroke; the CIA wetboys do *strokes*.

[lovuian]

22. This is the unconcious coming out. Freudian slip

The Unconcious is uncontrolable as we see with Rumsfeld

Those people's lives lost in 9/11 lay deep in the unconcious of those in the Bush regime.

Another example...

[Dancing_Dave]

24. If Eliot Spitzer got a chance to cross-examine Donald Rumsfeld...

The whole Bush Administration would be doomed!

[ally_sc]

36. agreed..i would love to see that on court tv...eom

[TaleWgnDg]

25. Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush himself . . .

Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush himself . . . all belong to the school of "if I say it long and forceful enough, it's true!"

Wha? You didn't know this? "We attacked Saddam because of 9-11" "Saddam was hiding WMD" "Saddam was hiding al-Qaeda" "Saddam had contacts with al-Qaeda that's why we must attack Saddam" all of this chimes with . . . Kerry was a lousy soldier, Kerry conspired with the VietCong" "Kerry went to Paris to meet the commies and deal over POW captured" . . . and oh, yeah, "McCain's son is black" . . .

The entire entourage sucks. All of those Bush and Company cowards who use words to get and retain power sending our good young men and women off to fight where they should never be . . . Bush and Company, all suck.

Huzzah! Hooyah!
.

[Cooley Hurd]

26. I doubt this was merely an honest slip...

...considering no other plane was shot down that day (nor in any other instance in history in which an airliner was hijacked), hence there would be no cognitive reason for him to make such a slip. So, what we heard was Rummy speaking the truth that he and others in the upper levels of the BFEE have known since 9/11.

[Ian David]

28. Oh, come on

This is real "tinfoil hat" stuff.

Even on the off chance that it is correct-- and I think that is a very long shot-- haven't they done enough that we should be able to nail them without needing to go so far out on a limb?

[ally_sc]

29. if congress will start inpeachment proceedings

who cares if it is tin foil hat stuff or not. even stephanie miller said the other day she was beginning to believe in the conspiracy theories. pretty soon it won't be a theory. it will be proved. whistle blowers and officals will come clean. i hope it comes quickly. problems are volitile all over the world, our economy sucks, all the jobs are being oustsources, dollar is going south and that's just the tip fo it.

[Cooley Hurd]

30. Explain why parts of the airliner were found EIGHT miles away...

...from the point of impact?:shrug:

[ally_sc]

32. there you have it...

in the scientific evidence..conspiracy theory is has been proven. can i take my tin foil hat off now?

[exploited]

38. Perhaps the aircraft went out of control?!

It exceeded it's maximum velocity during descent and bits fell off.

Never mind. I like to believe that something more sinister happened too. There's no doubting that your government builds it's agenda on lies (and there's NO WAY one of those jets piloted by an incompetent pilot hit the Pentagon).

[Cooley Hurd]

39. That could be possible if the parts were found closer to the...

...main crash site (like 5 miles or under). But eight miles out?

[jobycom]

44. Not much distance

Eight miles is not so far when a plane is travelling at 500 mph. Less than a minute. A lighter piece of debris, even aluminium skin from the plane, could drift that far on air currents with the right wind, if it either broke off in flight, or was thrown high enough by the force of the crash. A plane striking the ground at 500 MPH creates a lot of force, and since the earth doesn't give much, a lot of that force is recoil.

If it were that simple, in other words, physicians everywhere would have already disproven the official story.

[ally_sc]

50. i claim to know nothing about the law of physics

but there are too many "coinicidences", slips of tongues and oil & power issues. bush is no better than saddam was to his people. how in the hell is going to go down in history? it has been a sad day for america for a long damn time.

[Slit Skirt]

46. I am with you on this one

it amazes me how people will accept the absurd, and close their eyes to the most plausible explanation.

most plausable: the government lied to us, has lied to us in the past and is continuing to do so. Northwoods, Incubator babies, the air at ground zero, wmd,...and the hits just keep on comin

most absurd: men being coordinated by other men in a cave hijacked 4 planes with box cutters and fooled the most sophisticated and well financed intelligence in the world. To believe the official story you have to believe that the CIA failed, FBI failed, the Pentagon failed, the FAA failed, NORAD failed...they all failed.......precisely at this time....

YEAH RRRRRRRRRight!

just remember what 9/11 gave us: the war in Afghanistan and their oil, the war in Iraq and their oil. the patiot act I and patriot act II and homeland security , with a Central Intelligence czar. Oh and let's not forget record profits!!!!

[jobycom]

70. I think you are using that word wrong

Plausible means believable. You find it implausible that out of 4 billion people on the earth and 300 million in this country the government wasn't watching 19? You find it plausible that dozens of Americans-- the most greedy, least quiet people on the planet-- who would have had to know about a government plot to bring down the WTC all would keep quiet about such a plan?

What happened afterwards doesn't prove anything, except that those in power are opportunists and will use any tragedy to gain more power. Simple Machievellian strategy. That's the plausible explanation. Bush and crew were sitting on their hands waiting for something to happen to give them the power they needed. It happened, they took advantage.

[Slit Skirt]

71. get better acquainted with your history

it has happened before....this administration is much more evil than opportunists

[jmcgowanjm]

60. Yes

A wired world is taking note of every pathological tick in
the twisted American face. Even now, a myriad of plans
are evolving to sidestep the dangerous, delusional United
States as mankind goes about its collective business. A kind
of international redlining will increasingly make itself felt, but
not seen. The Bush men believe they are willing into existence
a New American Century, while in reality they are creating
an America-phobic planet in which the U.S. has earned
an invisible but powerfully consequential non-favored
nation status. Having invented the concept of globalism,
the United States will be consigned to pariah status - and
shrink, until it learns to live by human norms and
scales.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/36/36_cover_story.html

Hey, wanna have some fun?

Google: Wolfowitz Houston Dallas Atlanta

[Slit Skirt]

34. you know the dangerous thing about lying...

is that you always have to remember the lie...just like bush's "I saw the first plane hit the tower" gaffe....

there are so many lies surrounding 9/11 this is bound to happen...hopefully over and over...give em a rope and let them hang themselves...bastards.

[TexasChick]

64. Exactly. They have told so many lies now that they are now getting

confused as well.

[robbedvoter]

37. Guess whose SOLE authority it was to shoot down planes as of June 2001?

giving Secretary of Defence SOLE approval for shootdowns!
... that the 9/11 Commission (and our press corpse) seemed to overlook.......
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf
...
CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF INSTRUCTION
CJCSI 3610.01A
1 June 2001
AIRCRAFT PIRACY (HIJACKING) AND DESTRUCTION OF DERELICT
AIRBORNE OBJECTS
...
c. Destruction of Derelict Airborne Objects.
Derelict airborne objects
(for example, unmanned free balloons, moored balloons or kites,
unmanned non-nuclear rockets or missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles
(UAV) or remotely operated vehicles (ROV)) are a potential threat to
public safety. Military personnel may, upon request, be required to
track and destroy such objects. The NMCC is the focal point for any
requests for DOD assistance in tracking and destroying derelict
airborne objects. With the exception of immediate responses as
authorized by reference d, the NMCC will forward all requests for such
assistance to the Secretary of Defense for approval. Enclosure D
provides additional guidance.

[0007]

40. "Let's roll" - Flight 93 with all those heroes is now said to

be shot down and not by heroic deeds. Let's play some of those recorded conversations again, eh?

I have no problem with the plane being shot down, I have a problem with the lies junior and his crew of thugs told us.

[Slit Skirt]

65. it was probably shot down...

because (my theory)...the crew was successful...they couldn't have anyone alive to tell the "real" story.

[0007]

69. That's indeed pretty far out! But ya may have a point.

[jobycom]

42. Rumsfield's drugs are taking over, it seems.

First and foremost, if they had shot down Flight 93, I believe they'd be bragging about it. Bush screwed up everything on 9-11, from start to finish. They would jump at the chance to claim they did something right. Bush has no reason to make heroes out of someone other than himself.

Second, Rumsfield was talking about the terrorists in that string of examples, he wasn't talking about the government. I doubt the terrorists shot the plane down. He's an old military pilot, he was just using slang. (And yes, I understand how someone could claim he said "shot down" instead of "crashed" because he knew it was shot down instead of crashed, no matter who did it, and I can even understand how Rumsfield may subconsciously realize that he and his group are as much terrorists as UBL, and therefore claiming the terrorists "shot down" the plane could be a subcomscious referal to that connection. I just don't think that was it.)

Of course, with BushCo, I'm not certain of anything, except their pure stupidity and evilness.

Mostly, I think Rumsfield is drinking or Rushing. He's lost his normal smoothness lately. His comments to the troops were more arrogant than usual for him, and now he's blathering more nonsense. I think his slips lately are more than the usual arrogance and disdain for all people. I wonder if his conscience is finally leading him to non-sobriety.

[justiceischeap]

52. After reading the statement in context

It seems as though he was refering to the terrorists and just didn't pick his words correctly. Don't get me wrong, I think the US government has great culpability in allowing 9/11 to happen. As PNAC put it, we needed another "Pearl Harbor" to get the citizenry riled up. What better than to allow a terrorist plot to unfold. All the evidence points to that theory anyway.

[Slit Skirt]

55. ...yes, well that WILL be his excuse....

but I agree with earlier posts....FREUDIAN SLIP....BIG TIME!

[MercutioATC]

88. If it IS a "slip", it makes no sense.

Rummy didn't say WE shot down UAL93, he said that the terrorists did it. Since we pretty much know that's not true, wouldn't the most reasonable assumption be that he's just screwing up terminology again?

[jmcgowanjm]

59. What better than to allow a terrorist plot to unfold.

Want to have some fun?

Google: Rumsfeld Pollard Wolfowitz

The Pirates were wrong. World revulsion is near
universal, beyond emotion, and fast translating into
concerted action in collective defense against the
madman. Indonesia and Malaysia are simply speaking
more frankly than other nations. The Bush men
cannot comprehend that their systematic, transparent assault
on international stability is unpardonable. And they don't
know what it feels like to be hurt. This, too, will come as
a surprise - their Shock and
Awe.

"Punish France, ignore Germany and forgive Russia,"
urges Condoleezza Rice, thereby guaranteeing that these
potent powers will deepen their conspiracy to facilitate
the isolation of the
U.S.

[Robb]

54. Well, Rummy ain't a young man

...that's for sure. But the trouble with trying to figure out if they would lie about it or not is that we have no idea of their motivations. We can only guess.

I've been around this a million times since 2001. Half of me thinks the whole rush to contain information about UAL93 was simply the knee-jerk response of an administration that goes into shut-up mode by default.

The other half wrote a book. ;)

[Renew Deal]

61. Rummy needs to be retired.

Even if that flight was shot down. He obviously has had it.

[loritooker]

66. Yes--he has so many lies to remember he can't keep it all straight n/a

[donsu]

67. maybe he meant to say it exactly as he said it

if the info is going to come out that the plane was shot down, maybe Rummy/bushgang are starting to mold the thinking that 'someone' not the bushgang shot down the plane, thus averting our gaze away from them.

just a thought

[Bluebear]

73. It's always a "gaffe" when a Republican "misspeaks"

[IHeart1993]

74. In their own mind,

They think got away with everything on 9/11. Wait, more secrets will be released because they think they have a free ride. At least from the Media Whores.

[Debbie13]

81. Rumsfield's slip was being discussed on a radio show.

[LiberalHeart]

82. To anyone who thinks the plane wasn't shot down...

Please explain this:

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/911.call/

The passenger's name was Edward Felt. He made a cell phone call to a 911 dispatcher while he was locked in the plane's bathroom during Flight 93's final moments. He told the dispatcher the plane was hijacked and was going to go down. He said he saw white smoke and heard an explosion. Certainly sounds like the plane was shot down, or there was a bomb aboard.

The dispatcher's supervisor also listened in on the call after being alerted about the subject matter. The FBI gagged these folks to keep them from telling this tale, but it really happened. The dispatcher was given an award for his "heroics" that day, though I don't know what was heroic about taking the call. There certainly was no assistance he could have provided.

I think the combination of smoke and an explosion make a good case for the "shot down" theory, and finding debris some eight miles away seems to support the notion that the plane was breaking up in the air prior to impact. Many witnesses have gone on the record to talk about jet in the vicinity that day -- a small white jet with no markings.

I hope the MSM will finally take a look at the evidence and get to the bottom of what happened.

[MercutioATC]

83. The "small white jet" was the Execjet

and there were no military jets in the vacinity (I've personally spoken to the ATC who was working the airspace at the time).

[LiberalHeart]

84. Yes, but....

...some people report seeing two small jets. The FBI at first would not rule out another plane in the vicinity, then did. And a pal of mine who works in gov. intelligence told me there was one jet and it belonged to a private company (one based in Johnstown, which by the way is also home to a federal facility that gathers drug intelligence that impacts domestic security). He said the owner would not be publicly identified. He told me those private-jet folks were gathering info at the governement's request, helping to locate the crash. Never mind that there was a very visible column of smoke rising from the wreckage.

Don't all planes have to be marked? Several witnesses say the white jet was not marked. According to one witness report I read, it also had an unusual design.

[MercutioATC]

85. I've read the same eyewitness report.

She was supposedly shown pictures of almost every small jet in existance and said that what she saw didn't resemble any of them. I have my doubts.

Yes, every aircraft is required to display its "N-number" (registration number). However, the witnesses were on the ground...not a great viewing angle.


Anything's possible, I suppose, but the controller working the airspace at the time didn't see another target.

[LiberalHeart]

86. The woman also checked the internet....

...looking for a plane like the one she saw.

I think, from reports I've read, that the plane was flying very low, so perhaps markings would have been evident. One woman who was on a highway said she ducked when the plane flew over her vehicle -- kind of a silly move, but she said it was reflexive because the plane was so low.

The thing that bothers me the most is that cell phone call, with the passenger reporting the explosion and the smoke. It's hard for me to get past that, particularly in the context of Rummy's remark over the weekend.

[MercutioATC]

87. I hear what you're saying, but somebody on the ground

would have difficulty seeing a number on the tail of the airplane, especially if it passed directly over them.

Also, Rummy's statement actually said that "they" shot down UAL93. Not "we"..."they". He has a history of goofing up occasionally, so I don't think it means much.

The explosion and smoke report is interesting, though.

[LiberalHeart]

90. I know Rummy blamed it on terrorists....

....which is also the official story, so he was on message with that part of his remarks. But the truth crept into his quote when he said the plane was "shot down", a goof he made because he has known all along what that plane's true fate was.

For the victims, the end result is the same no matter how the plane came down, but imagine the fall-out for the administration if that plane was shot down by our military. Many people (even many in the anti-Bush crowd) would have been supportive of that action if it kept the plane from being used as a weapon against a target that would have resulted in even more deaths. But if the passengers truly were about to take control of the plane at the moment it was shot down, the damage to the administration would have been huge.

Of course, it wouldn't have been as huge as it *will* be -- if this theory turns out to be true and it creeps into the MSM. Americans have been rather docile as other administration lies have come to light, but I think this one would be received in an entirely different way.

And yes, I realize I'm probably out in left field. I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I see my government as being capable of having lied about something this important. If I can believe this, it kinda opens the door to my finally accepting other tin foil hat theories that have been bounced around the net. I'm very uncomfortable with how much sense this gaffe makes when taken in concert with the other facts known about Flight 93. I want very much to NOT believe it.

[LiberalHeart]

92. The Pentagon says Rummy mis-spoke....

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/27/rumsfeld.flt93/index.html

[MrSammo1]

89. Here is the

audio

http://www.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=2&prgDate=24-Dec-2004

[LiberalHeart]

91. I get a message that the file can't be read. N/T

[stickdog]

93. More on Flight 93.

The unanswered questions speak volumes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=20744&mesg_id=20744

[LiberalHeart]

94. Excellent work, stickdog! Now some questions....

I see you were working on this long before Rummy opened his mouth. I thoroughly enjoyed your Sept. post and found it most informative.

The following from a Reuters story was posted Wednesday September 12 9:45 AM ET. It puts the crash at 10:06, not 10:03. I have read the 10:06 time in multiple news stories that surfaced in the hours after the event. When did the government begin to claim the time was 10:03? Was it perhaps after they found the recorder and needed to provide a reason why the recorder shut off at 10:03? I also have one other question: I recall reading about a traffic control tape being destoryed by a supervisor. Did that tape have anything to do with Flight 93?

(excerpt from http://www.september11news.com/Flight93.htm )

United's Flight 93, bound for San Francisco from Newark, New Jersey, crashed near a strip mine at 10:06 a.m. Tuesday in a wooded section of Somerset County, about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh, apparently killing all 45 people on board.

Eight minutes earlier, emergency officials in neighboring Westmoreland County said they received a cell phone call from another passenger who said the plane had been hijacked.

[stickdog]

96. In the days following 9/11, the time of the crash was variously reported

as 10:03, 10:06, 10:10 and even 10:15 and 10:20, with 10:06 and 10:10 being the most widely reported times on 9/12 and 9/13.

You are correct that the 10:03 time was first definitively asserted when the victims families were allowed to listen to the cockpit voice recorder.

And, yes, a tape of air traffic controllers 9/11 remembrances made on 9/11 was cut into dozens of pieces and thrown into dozens of different garbage cans:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/06/national/06CND-TAPE.html?ex=1104469200&en=be637bfdbe72dda9&ei=5070&hp

Whether this tape shed any light on Flight 93 is a not known, but Cleveland, not Ronkonkoma, NY, was the controlling ARTCC for Flight 93 at the time of the purported crash.

[Debbie13]

95. Remember the clip where G*B was asked if he had prior knowlege of 9/ll

Here's the link again

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/multimedia/9_11laugh.mpg

[John Doe II]

97. Competence and incompetence

To everybody who has the opinion:
Well, sure the military shot down UA 93. We can't be that incompetent and afterwards they did a cover up.

Have a close look at what happened at the airports of Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Johnstown. All along the actual flight path of UA 93 and all three towers had been evacuated for reasons that are everything but clear and most likely in case of Johnstown a clear lie.

They start rethinking you shoot down scenario.