Should DU Fraud Folk Now Focus on 9/11 Fraud to Bring Bush Down ?

[Shalom]

Now that some of the immediate focus on trying to prevent the coronation of Bush has passed, we need to both look forward to how to contain and/or impeach the imposter, and also take the time to place this usurpation in context.

I don't ask that others share my view that we in America have been exposed to proto-facism since the execution of JFK, or Iran-Contra, or even the 2000 election theft.

But at the very least, we need to understand the dynamic of Bush's first term, and how he was able to consolidate so much power so rapidly, and with so little native intelligence or experience.

The key to this power grab, and the the key to his remaining in power, is obvious: it is 9/11.

Along these lines, some of us have been so preoccupied with the 2004 election and the aftermath that we have missed the possibility that researchers have finally found the key to understanding how the 9/11 attacks were able to proceed at will.

If you download the chapter from Mike Ruppert's book "Crossing the Rubicon" (go to the link below, and select "Excerpt"), it becomes crystal clear: up to 5 "wargames" were in process on the morning of 9/11, which included "injects" into FAA screens that simulated hijacked airliners. This created paralysis from the FAA and NORAD in responding to the "real" hijackings, allowing the attacks to succeed, and ushering in the reign of George Walker Bushitler, which has continue to the present day, and has led to his second coronation.

It's all in front of us, if we only have the courage to see it. If the people on DU turn some of their attention to this area, and apply just a portion of the energy and collective investigative power to this issue, it could make a tremendous difference. This CAN bring Bush down in an INSTANT.

http://www.newsociety.com/bookid/3875

P.S. 1: In case this material sounds like (really) crazy conspiracy stuff, be refer to to the excerpt from the link below...I expect that Mr. Spitzer's office might just be responsive to DU'ers (esp. NY residents) with regard to the convening of a Grand Jury....

http://www.justicefor911.org/press.php#2

On behalf of New York State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, Chief Investigator William Casey today accepted a Complaint and Petition from a group of New York City citizens including 9/11 family members, survivors and a Ground Zero triage physician. The Complaint demands that the AG open a criminal inquiry and/or grand jury investigation into the many still unsolved crimes of September 11, 2001 over which he has jurisdiction.

P.S. 2: It may be advisable to start a DU Discussion Forum entitled "Bring Bush Down", which can focus on how to contain and/or impeach Bush for any and all reasons, not necessarily confined to election fraud. If such a step is taken, it is hoped that many of those who have kept the heat on in this forum can lend their skills and energies to the new venue. On the other hand, some may think it preferable that those who are so motivated directly take part in existing groups, such as 9/11 Truth, etc.

[hootinholler]

1. I think that target would be counter-productive at this point.

A much richer avenue is the WMD fraWd in that it doesn't immediately offend those we need to bring into our network. The parallel avenue that also needs exploration is the systematic manipulation of the media in violation of Federal Law.

Let it come out in the impeachment hearings, subtlety will allow it to build into the rage it deserves.

-Hoot

P.S. Not Bring Bush Down, but, The Bush Opposition.

[DulceDecorum]

67. Nobody really believes that 911 happened the way they say

That is the reason why
the BTS has had to "explain" why Flights 11 and 77
do NOT show up on the database for that day.

The NTSB and the FAA catch MAJOR HEAT on this EVERY DAY
because
NONE OF THE FOUR PLANES WAS DESTROYED ON 911
and two of them are STILL registered.

Bush was well on the way to being impeached
for vote fraud
when 911 came along.
Remember how he behaved on that day?
Most people will NEVER forget it.

[Fly by night]

2. No.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

25. There's definitive proof of his incompetence prior to 9-11.

Jan.30, 2001, Bush was handed the Hart-Rudman Report on Global Terror that was just completed after a 2 1/2 year study. Bush did not read it and did not have any of his close advisers read it, either.

That is UNFITNESS for the position. The media never held him accountable for that failure.

[MercutioATC]

69. BLM, this is one of the few times we're going to agree.

9/11 definitely happened as a result of incompetence.

[Abe Linkman]

71. Right you are. bushco thought they were smart enough to get away w/it.

Do you disagree with that?

[MercutioATC]

73. Yes, I do disagree...

...as you well know.

Unless you mean that they "thought they were smart enough to get away with" covering up their incompetence by failing to use the information they had to prevent terrorist attacks on 9/11.

[Abe Linkman]

76. Yes, they should have arrested the 9/11 plotters. Cheney, Rumsfeld et al.

Commander Bunnypants probably was kept intentionally ignorant except when the CIA showed him the live CCTV of the first WTC hit (to give him guilty knowledge - a very savvy move on their part, I must say).

But, as you know (or should know by now)...the reason why the real 9/11 perps weren't prevented from carrying out their crime is because it was an inside job.

[MercutioATC]

77. Yes, I know your take on 9/11, Abe.

I think we may have discussed it a few times...


As YOU know, I don't agree.

[Wilms]

26. You don't need to prove anything to get people to look at 911.

In fact, it's best not to try. I warn folks about all the nutty theories (including the "official story"), and I urge them to just consider the unanswered questions.

<http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html>

This way I ain't the kook.

We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[DulceDecorum]

81. Bush: on using terror as a weapon

We actually misnamed the war on terror, it ought to be the struggle against ideological extremists who do not believe in free societies who happen to use terror as a weapon to try to shake the conscience of the free world. (Laughter.)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040806-1.html

Let's read that again.
Slowly.

We actually misnamed the war on terror,
it ought to be the struggle AGAINST ideological extremists
who do NOT believe in free societies
who happen to use terror as a weapon
to try to shake the conscience of the free world. (Laughter.)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040806-1.html

Do you believe that a free society
should use terror as a weapon
to try to shake the conscience of the free world?

No?
Then you are against Bush.

Do you believe that a free society
should use terror as a weapon
to try to shake the conscience of the free world?

Yes?
Then you support Osama.

Are you a member of a free society
should uses terror as a weapon
to try to shake the conscience of the free world?

Then you ARE a terrorist.
Even if you claim otherwise.

We actually misnamed the war on terror, it ought to be the struggle against ideological extremists who do not believe in free societies who happen to use terror as a weapon to try to shake the conscience of the free world. (Laughter.)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040806-1.html

[spooked911]

88. Your point is well taken although you are not parsing his sentence the way

he meant it.

But I like your way better.:)

[New Earth]

3. no

everyone should stick to the issue they feel is for them. there needs to be balance and there needs to be different people working on different issues.

[Horse with no Name]

4. Glad to see you made it back safe and sound.

:)

[Nothing Without Hope]

5. Not entirely - but more attention does need to be paid to 9/11

It needs a DU forum of its own and those people who want to focus on it should receive our support and encouragement. I do believe that it is the scandal that would bring down the cartel.

However, we cannot let up on pushing for election fraud investigation. That needs huge energy and commitment.

I also believe that we need to work hard to get the truth out to people who are NOT using the internet for their news source, let alone joining the internet-based progressive community. Spreading the progressive message around the country, fighting the propaganda of the administration and corporate media, and facilitating communication and organization to support progressive activism are EXTREMELY important. I also believe that our internet freedom is going to be attacked more and more as we become more of a threat.

The 9/11 scandal does need attention and exposure, but not at the expense of these other priorites. Surely something can be worked out so that it is agressively investigated without taking the heat off election fraud and other critical issues.

Must go now -- interesting thread!

[seemslikeadream]

14. There is a 9/11 forum

Archived & Leftover Forums 9/11, Military Affairs, and Terrorism
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125

[justice4all]

24. what would it take

to revive it? I would suggest naming it something like '9/11 Investigation', to focus on evidence and allow readers to draw their own conclusions. I only recently got interested in this. My first reaction to suggestions that * was complicit was "Oh, no, another case of embarassing sensationalism from the mobs in the street". I changed my mind after reading more, but you need to get people to look at the evidence first.

[Nothing Without Hope]

58. Yes, but that is a combined forum. It needs its OWN forum.

"Archived & Leftover Forums, 9/11, Military Affairs, and Terrorism"
is something of a grab bag.

Putting 9/11 investigations and evidence into ITS OWN FORUM would make it much easier to focus on the subject. This is not the first time this question about its obscure forum location has been raised. I hope that a change is made.

[mirandapriestly]

19. I agree that 9-11 needs a DU forum

there is some really questionable stuff about 9-11 as much as the election and it seems to be kind of taboo on DU

[Quakerfriend]

6. Hi Shalom!

:hi:

You are right on target about this!

Though I believe every bit of what Madsen and others have said, it seems a difficult avenue for people to pursue, perhaps because it is so utterly evil.

I think that if we keep our efforts on 911 it will reveal the 2000 and 2004 election fraud along the way.

[Shalom]

41. Thanks, my "Q" friend !

[EVDebs]

7. Leaks will do it all. VIPS with Ray McGovern et al weren't even

listened to by the media.

[LunaC]

8. Put the spotlight on PNAC and 911

see sig line below - the public really needs to know what an evil bunch of conniving bastards reside in the WH especially after that "End Tyranny - Bring "Freedom" To The World" inaugural propaganda.

Doublespeak reigns supreme.

[hootinholler]

12. Nice lucent reference there. N/T

-Hoot

[seejanerun]

9. Everything is Connected

Election fraud, media consolidation, star wars, etc. are all facets of the same thing, and you are right that 9/11 is what allowed the neocons to move more quickly forward on something they have planned for a long time. People need to fight on all fronts, of course, but I would love to see a dedicated forum for 9/11. Along with advancing the cause, it would help people who want to get up to speed on all of the research that has been done on this.

I have read all 600 pages of "Crossing the Rubicon," and it does an excellent job of connecting the dots.

[BamaBecky]

10. That's the way I see it too! eom

[earth mom]

49. I agree with you and Shalom-So a BIG YES! from me too. n/t

[stillcool]

11. It All needs to come out...

and it is all related. The Mode of Operation for this administration and its predecessors needs to be divulged in full in order to accurately explain the actions taken, let alone force consequences for those actions. Some of this mess actually makes sense as regard to our addiction to oil. The methods this administration has chosen to force compliance in regards to whatever they want....are either illegal or immoral, and all need to be brought into the light. They have gotten away with mass murder and a total lack of regard for anybodys well-being but their own.

[marions ghost]

13. no, a multifaceted approach is best

and election issues are critical right now. So Election R and D needs to stay on it. While I follow all the various nefarious deeds of the Bush administration, I want to work mainly on the underlying sham that we have a fair election system.

Ok to have another Discussion forum for investigations that are unrelated to election issues (at least superficially unrealated--we all know it is part of the same pattern of exploitation). I could see that. The issues are certainly big enough.

I agree--"the Bush Opposition" is a better catch-all than "Bring Bush Down."

[troubleinwinter]

15. No. Election fraud must be pursued in order to make elections

legitimate. Merely "bringing down bush" does not give us clean elections, so we'd be back in the same boat we are now. Not only are clean elections needed, but the prosecutions of those responsible for election fraud are neccessary, in order for there to be clear consequences for the theft of democracy.

[Shalom]

16. Bottom Line: A New DU Forum, or Roll Your Own ?

There is lot's of stimulating insight and observations to this proposal, but eventually we must "fish or cut bait".

IMHO, if we focus on just being the "opposition" to Bush, it's a very nice PROCESS-oriented focus, and I am sure Karl Rove will be happy to spar with us.

I believe a RESULTS-oriented focus is what is called for, such as BRING BUSH DOWN.

This wider focus does not mean fighting against election fraud should stop, it means BRING BUSH DOWN in the most efficient and effective manner. Who cares that they "finally" nailed Al Capone for income tax fraud instead of his real crimes ?

Furthermore, I would argue that if in fact Bushitler was complicit in 9/11, that this heinious crime is even worse than stealing an election.

Personally, I feel the unexplored potential of nailing Bush for 9/11 is at the moment much more promising that having a cat fight with Blackwell, and my own focus will be moving in that direction.

We are all in this together, regardless of our differing strategies.

[seemslikeadream]

18. There is a 9/11 forum

Archived & Leftover Forums 9/11, Military Affairs, and Terrorism
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125

[mirandapriestly]

20. I didn't even notice that before

9-11 is chock full of fraud!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

22. I believe there should be greater focus on 9/11. The forum at DU

is delegated to individual threads in the archive and leftover forums, under 9/11, Military Affairs, and Terrorism. It is almost hidden away. I think it should be more prominent.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125

[Last Lemming]

17. I agree with the original post

all the major fiascos of this administration--and it's very reason for existence--is the story of 9/11--it's always the fall back position of the administration--deny, deflect, discount, distort and if that doesn't work--"everything changed after 9/11"

It is the fundamental crime from which all others spring--it's what's made everything else possible--and right now it is the only thing that keeps this administration in power.

[NAO]

23. Yes. 911 Truth is the Key to Bringing Bush Down.

All we have to do is gain momentum over a self-censoring mainstream media.

That Bush and his cronies have lied, repeatedly, badly, openly about the events of 9/11 is thoroughly documented and readily available in the public record to anyone who wants to look and who will connect the dots.

From the Wilderness
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/

911 Truth Movement (main portal site)
http://www.911truth.org/

911 Research
http://911research.wtc7.net/

Center for Cooperative Research (complete 9/11 timeline)
http://cooperativeresearch.org/

Global Research Associates
http://www.globalresearch.ca/

Unanswered Questions
http://www.unansweredquestions.org/

Deception Dollars (hand them out - spread the truth, urls)
http://www.deceptiondollar.com/


http://www.deceptiondollar.com/8+/2BillionDDfront.jpg

http://www.deceptiondollar.com/8+/2BillionDDback.jpg

[BeFree]

27. 9/11 Group.... A Proposal

DU needs a 9/11 Group. As far as I know, it takes 10 starred members to get one going. I have gone round and round with b*** supporters in the 9/11 forum, and frankly, I quit posting there because of them.

A 9/11 Group would eliminate the b*** supporters from the discussion and allow pertinent info to be safely ensconced, away from their excretions.

Who's with me? If just 10 starred members agree, we can establish a repository of 9/11 truths, without all the negativity.

If any be so inclined, start a new thread and we'll kick it up.

[seemslikeadream]

29. BeFree have you seen this?

Plenty of people here that agree with you

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2982235

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=120x28590

[BeFree]

35. Thanks, dream

As stated, the 9/11 forum is due for a change. I hope enough DU'ers feel as I do that we get a group. I kinda have a feel for why the present day 9/11 forum is treated like a step-child, but as this thread seems to be saying, it may be our Cinderella.

[Last Lemming]

31. I'm new enough not to know what a star means

but not so new, I guess, because I have one. Sign me up.

[Last Lemming]

32. Oh. . . I donated . .

Somehow I thought it was because of the glimmering quality of a poster's insight

[Minstrel Boy]

39. Good luck. I'm all for it. n/t

[Shalom]

40. I Think a "fresh" 9/11 Group is a Good Idea....but don't bash others ;-)

[bobbieinok]

43. loudly agree

[Abe Linkman]

57. Agreed. But, how would "b***" be kept from disrupting a 9/11 Group?

They all pretend to be Democrats, and isn't that enough for them to plausibly be entitled to disrupt any DU forum/group they care to? ESPECIALLY, if the subject matter is one that isn't exactly something that prominent Democrats want to be associated with?

[hack89]

60. Bush supporter = someone who disagrees with me (nt)

[LARED]

61. Funny how that works isn't it?

Makes me wonder why they think like that.

[Abe Linkman]

62. Where in the world did you get that simplistic notion from?

Nearly everyone who posts messages on the 9/11 forum is objective and interested in learning the truth about what really happened. Those who disagree with the evidence and questions that raise doubts about the Official Conspiracy Theory support it. Does that make them bush supporters? Is that what you are referring to?

[hack89]

63. BeFree said

"I have gone round and round with b*** supporters in the 9/11 forum. A 9/11 Group would eliminate the b*** supporters from the discussion" - It seems to clear to me that he equates dissent from his views as supporting Bush.

[Abe Linkman]

64. Sir/M'am - that's not how I read it at all.

What the person is saying is that it would be nice to have a place where
people can discuss 9/11 issues without being disrupted by bush supporters whose mission is partisan, not objective.

Do YOU have some reason why that shouldn't be allowed? DU is overly generous (in my opinion) in allowing right-wingers to post disruptive messages as long as they "profess" to be Democrats.

[hack89]

66. Debate in an echo chamber is fruitless

I am interested in getting to the bottom of 911 - I am also highly suspicious when the first topic of discussion is banning certain points of view.

[Abe Linkman]

72. If your special interest is getting to the bottom, then go there.

No one is stopping you. Go.

[AZCat]

68. Who judges the alleged partisanship/objectivity?

You, Abe?

[MercutioATC]

70. How do you define "b*** supporter"?

If your definition is simply anybody who doesn't adhere to one of the various 9/11 conspiracies, your "new" 9/11 forum wouldn't be any different than what we have now.


If you want a "9/11 Conspiracy Theory ONLY" forum, that might do the trick.

[Abe Linkman]

74. 9/11 is a conspiracy FACT. It's the bush 9/11 lies that are the problem.

bushco has tried to sell the notion that a cave-dwelling CIA asset is responsible for the most sophisticated crime ever to take place in the United States. More and more people are realizing that the 9/11 Conspiracy FACT is all about a self-attack, just like 99% of ALL so-called terrorism worldwide. Gov't sponsored terrorism isn't even a new phenomenon in the United States, and more and more people are becoming aware of THAT, too.

I won't say that anyone who adheres to the bush 9/11 Conspiracy Lie is necessarily ignorant of the facts. For some of those folks, there's a more significant explanation for their adherence, but we can't get into that here.

[MercutioATC]

75. We obviously have different definitions of the word "fact".

I'm glad you're happy with yours.

[hack89]

78. I don't understand the "cave dwelling" reference

Isn't OBL an university trained engineer who routinely uses advanced technology (computers, encrypted communications, satellite phones, etc). For that matter, weren't most of the hijackers college educated, middle class Saudis? If BushCo could pull it off, why couldn't they? Are you argueing for the superiority of the american mind? The fact that OBL was operating in the wilds of Afghanistan seems irrelevant.

[vincent_vega_lives]

79. It's a CT'ers talking point

I doubt it is given as much thought as you just gave it. Just repeated over and over because it sounds compelling to some.

[Abe Linkman]

80. Are you saying that 9/11 WASN'T a conspiracy?

Do you have a dictionary, VV? Are you saying that your idea about what happened did not involve more than one person? YOU are a Conspiracy Theorist, VV. Not a very good one, but a CT, for sure.

[vincent_vega_lives]

82. Nope

I'm saying it wasn't conducted by "cavemen". Nor do I think it was conducted by the US Government either.

[Abe Linkman]

83. Do tell us, VV: what exactly is the Conspiracy Theory YOU support?

C'mon now, I'm a BIT of a bull thrower myself, but go on with YOUR story.

[vincent_vega_lives]

92. The one "supported"

By John Kerry and John Edwards, and the rest of the Democratic Party.

[Abe Linkman]

94. Okay, so you support the Official Conspiracy Theory.

You support a position that has been proven to be a falsehood. That doesn't bother you?

[vincent_vega_lives]

95. Your assertion is a falsehood

and apparently that doesn't bother you.

Either that or you misunderstand what the word "proof" means.

[hack89]

84. There's no question that 9/11 was a conspiracy

I just question your premise that it was beyond the ability of OBL. Just ask the Russians who fought in Afghanistan how smart, innovative and persistent the Islamic resistance was. There is no question in my mind that OBL and his followers could have planned and executed 9/11 - whether they did or not is a different issue.

[Abe Linkman]

85. Being "smart, innovative & persistent" describes many people.

Read some more about 9/11 and unless you are a partisan (or a paid Disinformation/PR professional), I believe you will quickly come to realize that the Official Conspiracy Theory is a complete Fairy Tale.

I'd like to make another point, but the ABOVE is the MAIN point of this message. If you were to ask Dick Cheney or Condoleeza Rice or any other right-winger, they'd ALL say that Osama "could" have planned and executed 9/11. That's a matter of opinion, but still, I doubt that you can't cite any INFORMED, OBJECTIVE expert who would agree that OBL had the means to carry out the crimes of 9/11. Anyone with an informed opinion will almost certainly tell you that there's no way OBL could have possibly planned and executed 9/11. The only "Osama" in the several alleged videotapes of him where he takes credit for 9/11 is the
"Fat" Osama. An obvious fake. Cooked-up by the CIA. READ and learn.

[hack89]

86. The "means to carry out the crimes of 9/11" were

a lot of money and access to flight schools - why is this such an insurmountable hurdle for OBL? Pre-9/11 foreign flight students were simply viewed as paying customers - thousands of foreign students have attended US and European flight schools over the past decade. Again I ask - what unique talents does BushCo have that allows them and only them to pull off 9/11? The high esteem that you and other CTrs seem to have for BushCo's skill in pulling off 9/11 is puzzling - are they really that good?

[The Magistrate]

89. The Problem, Mr. Hack, Is Really Pretty Simple

Some persons have deeply ingrained notions of Western and Caucasian superiority, down in the unexamined wrinkles of their minds, and to them it seems blankly impossible that brown people from the east could have struck an effective blow against the centers of Atlantic civilization all on their own. It could only have been done by one of us....

"Many think that they are thinking when really they are only re-arranging their prejudices."

[Abe Linkman]

90. If THAT'S all it took, then sure, Osama (the fat one or the skinny one)...

might have been able to carry out a 9/11 attack. I think it's a tad more complicated, though.

You REALLY think all it took was:
"a lot of money and access to flight schools - why is this such an insurmountable hurdle for OBL?"

Actually, OBL WOULDN'T need a lot of money, would he? If he has decent credit, he could have just borrowed the money or gotten a cash advance on his credit card. And, given the white glove treatment that his "boys" received here in the U.S.A., THEY could have probably wangled student loans to pay for "guiding" lessons.

As m-atc would say: "we have a difference of opinion on this one."

[The Magistrate]

91. How Is It More Complicated, Mr. Linkman?

Enquiring minds want to know....

[vincent_vega_lives]

93. (the fat one or the skinny one)...

Abe, do me a favor an look up the treatments for diseases of the Kidney.

[torque]

28. keep it alive for sibel edmonds n/t

[seemslikeadream]

30. Sibel Edmonds

:hi: torque


Michael Chertoff and the sabotage of the Ptech investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2951935

Indira Singh/PTech deep moles in FAA help accomplish 9/11! WTF??
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2203166

State Dept. Quashed 9/11 Links To Global Drug Trade
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=610235&mesg_id=610235

Explosive new Sibel Edmonds interview
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1555133&mesg_id=1555133

DOJ Asked FBI Translator To Change Pre 9-11 Intercepts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=442067&mesg_id=442067

[JoMama49]

33. I've already been focusing on this in my "spare" time. If this

could break loose, it would bring the whole Regime down, stolen election and all. We need a few whistleblowers and some hard proof -- like the black boxes or some kind of forensic evidence. Or, how about some of the so-called hijackers suddenly pop up in Saudi Arabia? Something they can't just explain away.

[bobbieinok]

44. constantly hear ca 7 socalled hijackers are alive..why not pursued??

[DulceDecorum]

65. Because they PROVE that the Boston FBI lied about 911

and it is really really hard to explain them away,
hence
the MANDATORY use of
Truth Suppression Technique Number One.

1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
Regardless of what you know, don't discuss it -- especially if you are a public figure, news anchor, etc.
If it's not reported, it didn't happen, and you never have to deal with the issues.
http://www.angelfire.com/or/truthfinder/truth.html

[StephanieMarie]

34. But he already had his "moment of accountability"

[Al-CIAda]

36. It is all related which is why I am here.

It ALL must be persued.

I also agree 9-11 subject forum is not given the place it deserves.
Why is that?

9-11=New Pearl Harbor (PNAC)

[housewolf]

37. Mike Rupert "moves on" from 9/11 activism

Since you cite Mike Rupert and his work on 9/11, let me link to post of an article about Mke Rupert that his office released this week. The article states that Mike Rupert is "moving on" from 9/11 activism into new areas he feels are more critical today for activists to attend to.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x99990

[Shalom]

42. Wow! Blindsided by Mike R! Take his research, and strategize yourself...

I don't think we need to follow anyone just because they have dug up useful information.

There is something strange about uncovering something with this level of evil, and then walking away.

Sorry, I don't buy it. I'm gonna chase this down to the bitter end.

[elare]

38. I would suggest...

... that interested parties view the file "911 In Plane Site". I watched this, then read about Operation Northwood ... it gave me chills.

I got the video by Googling the name of the film along with the word download ... it really made me think (not saying that all of it is 100% factual, but it will make you think long and hard about 9/11)

[pixelthief]

45. YES

it needs more attention and a forum. Good call.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

46. I like the "Bring Bush Down" idea. You are right -- multiple

paths -- once a crook -- always a crook.

[Independent_Liberal]

47. Stanley Hilton

Maybe he can help out with this.

http://www.atsnn.com/story/111717.html

[seemslikeadream]

48. A. B. Buzzy Krongard

But Krongard exhibited the requisite secretiveness when asked
to explain his interest in intelligence and how he came to land
a job in Tenet's inner circle. If you go back to the CIA's origins
during World War II in the Office of Strategic Services, he
explained, "the whole OSS was really nothing but Wall Street
bankers and lawyers."
http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16570-2001Ma ...

Supressed Details of Criminal Insider Trading Lead Directly into the CIA’s Highest Ranks
CIA Executive Director “Buzzy” Krongard managed firm that handled “PUT” options on United Airline Stock
by Michael C. Ruppert

FTW - October 9, 2001 – Although uniformly ignored by the mainstream U.S. media, there is abundant and clear evidence that a number of transactions in financial
markets indicated specific (criminal) foreknowledge of the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. In the case of at least one of these
trades -- which has left a $2.5 million prize unclaimed -- the firm used to place the “put options” on United Airlines stock was, until 1998, managed by the man who is
now in the number three Executive Director position at the Central Intelligence Agency.

Until 1997 A.B. “Buzzy” Krongard had been Chairman of the investment bank A.B. Brown. A.B. Brown was acquired by Banker’s Trust in 1997. Krongard then
became, as part of the merger, Vice Chairman of Banker’s Trust-AB Brown, one of 20 major U.S. banks named by Senator Carl Levin this year as being connected
to money laundering. Krongard’s last position at Banker’s Trust (BT) was to oversee “private client relations.” In this capacity he had direct hands-on relations with
some of the wealthiest people in the world in a kind of specialized banking operation that has been identified by the U.S. Senate and other investigators as being
closely connected to the laundering of drug money.

Krongard joined the CIA in 1998 as counsel to CIA Director George Tenet. He was promoted to CIA Executive Director by President
Bush in March of this year. BT was acquired by Deutsche Bank in 1999. The combined firm is the single largest bank in Europe. And,
as we shall see, Deutsche Bank played several key roles in events connected to the September 11 attacks.
more
http://www.hereinreality.com/insidertrading.html

Follow the Money: Bush, 9/11, and Deep Threat

by Fran Shor
Published on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 by CommonDreams.org

The CIA and Other Deep Pockets

In the immediate aftermath of 9/11 a number of news stories appeared concerning investments in “put” options in United and American Airlines. Put options are shares that are bets on falling market prices for specific stocks. In the week before September 11 put options in United and American Airlines went through a furious and unprecedented spasm of investment. In addition put options for Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch, two of the biggest occupants of the World Trade Center, also saw abnormal activity. Most of the investments in these put options originated in Germany through the Deutsche Bank. Deutshce Bank had earlier acquired Banker’s Trust, a investment banking firm whose Vice Chairman in charge of “private client relations” in the late 1990’s was A. B. “Buzzy” Krongard. In March of 2001, Krongard was appointed Executive Director of the CIA.

Certainly, the CIA has a history of laundering money and dealings with shady investment characters. What becomes particularly relevant in the lead-up to 9/11 is the August CIA briefing of Bush concerning the potential threat of attacks by bin Laden using hijacked planes on certain sites, such as the Pentagon and World Trade Center, and the fact that the CIA had bugging equipment on bin Laden messages and international banking operations. Although no one has apparently claimed the money from the put options, questions remain about Krongard and the CIA’s involvement.
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0522-07.htm

THE CIA CONFIRMS FTW's MAP --
We Were Right!

NEW CIA UNIVERSITY
REVEALS AGENCY PRIORITIES
July 3, 2002,-- 17:00 PDT (FTW) -- The CIA is now operating a university somewhere in northern Virginia. According to an entry in a June 24 newsletter published by an association of former intelligence officers, some of the courses taught at the university are "economic trends, international banking, the world oil market, and how the International Monetary Fund, World Bank, World Trade Organization, etc. and other non-governmental organizations work."

For four years FTW has been teaching that the CIA's primary role, it's raison d'etre, was to serve the interests of Wall Street and the major banks. In our recent three-country lecture tour, our documentation of the close links between CIA and Wall Street has taken many by surprise. Thirty years ago Professor Peter Dale Scott of Berkeley disclosed that six out of the first seven deputy directors of intelligence (CIA's number two position) had gone directly from Wall Street into service at the Agency. Since Sept. 11, FTW's disclosure that the CIA's current executive director, A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard, is a former investment banker has caused deeper rumbles. The firm he once headed, AlexBrown/Deutschebank, has been connected to insider trading on United Air Lines stock just before the Sept. 11 attacks. The NYSE's current executive vice president for enforcement, David Doherty, is a retired CIA general counsel.
more
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/070302_CIA_U.html

procedure used at Deutschebank/AB Brown assured anonymity

"European reporters found that most of the suspicious pre-attack trades passed through Deutschebank and especially via CIA Executive Director A.B. Krongard’s former Alex Brown investment division by means of a procedure called portage, which assures the anonymity of individuals making the transactions. But Congress has not publicly revealed whether they will call Krongard and other Alex Brown traders to testify in open hearings, or whether they will subpoena the pre-attack documents in question."
more
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0207/S00119.htm

A Deutsche Bank executive was convicted of money laundering shortly before 9/11, and the bank laundered heroin money linked to the CIA.

And Shattuck actually resigned on September 12(!) from his three-year $30 million contract as head of AB Brown.


SMOKING GUN BURIED DURING CALIFORNIA RECALL VOTE!

On October 7 while the eyes of America were fixed on the California Recall vote the Securities and Exchange Commission quietly announced it was closing its investigation of suspicious stock trades connected to 911. The SEC's reason for closing the investigation can best be summed up as "What insider trading?".

...

* Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co., which occupied 22 floors of the World Trade Center, saw 2,157 of its October $45.00 put options bought in the three trading days before Black Tuesday; this compares to an average of 27 contracts per day before September 6.

* Merrill Lynch & Co., with headquarters near the Twin Towers, saw 12,215 October $45.00 put options bought in the four trading days before the attacks; the previous average volume in these options had been 252 contracts per day.

The CIA routinely monitors stock trades looking for exactly these kinds of suspicious transactions. The fact that these trades failed to sound any alarms is in itself suspicious as the bank which was the trading hub has a man inside the Agency. That man is CIA Executive Director “Buzzy” Krongard and the bank is Deutsche bank.

http://ez-websites.com/grudge /


September 6-10, 2001: Suspicious trading occurs on American and United, the two airlines used in the 9/11 attacks. "Between 6 and 7 September, The Chicago Board Options Exchange saw purchases of 4,744 put option contracts (a speculation that the stock will go down) in UAL versus 396 call options – where a speculator bets on a price rising. Holders of the put options would have netted a profit of $5 million once the carrier's share price dived after September 11. On 10 September, more trading in Chicago saw the purchase of 4,516 put options in American Airlines, the other airline involved in the hijackings. This compares with a mere 748 call options in American purchased that day. Investigators cannot help but notice that no other airlines saw such trading in their put options." One analyst says: "I saw put-call numbers higher than I've ever seen in 10 years of following the markets, particularly the options markets." (Associated Press, 9/18/01, San Francisco Chronicle, 9/19/01) "To the embarrassment of investigators, it has also emerged that the firm used to buy many of the "put" options ... on United Airlines stock was headed until 1998 by "Buzzy" Krongard, now executive director of the CIA." Krongard was chairman of Alex Brown Inc., which was bought by Deutsche Bank. "His last post before resigning to take his senior role in the CIA was to head Bankers Trust – Alex Brown's private client business, dealing with the accounts and investments of wealthy customers around the world." (Independent, 10/14/01)
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/index.html


Let Bin Laden stay free, says CIA man AB “Buzzy” Krongard

January 09, 2005
Tony Allen-Mills

...

If the world’s most wanted terrorist is captured or killed, a power struggle among his Al-Qaeda subordinates may trigger a wave of terror attacks, said AB “Buzzy” Krongard, who stepped down six weeks ago as the CIA’s third most senior executive.

“You can make the argument that we’re better off with him (at large),” Krongard said. “Because if something happens to Bin Laden, you might find a lot of people vying for his position and demonstrating how macho they are by unleashing a stream of terror.”

Krongard, a former investment banker who joined the CIA in 1998, said Bin Laden’s role among Islamic militants was changing. “He’s turning into more of a charismatic leader than a terrorist mastermind,” he said. “Some of his lieutenants are the ones to worry about.” Krongard, 68, said he viewed Bin Laden “not as a chief executive but more like a venture capitalist”.

...

Several US officials have privately admitted that it may be better to keep Bin Laden pinned down on the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan rather than make him a martyr or put him on trial. But Krongard is the most senior figure to acknowledge publicly that his capture might prove counter-productive.

Krongard also acknowledged that the CIA was still having trouble planting spies in Islamic militant ranks. “There are hundreds and hundreds of (Al-Qaeda) cells — it’s like a living, moving bit of protoplasm,” he said.

more
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1431539,00.html

[EFerrari]

50. No. We need to get back our franchise. n/t

[garybeck]

51. No, the way to bring Bush down before 08 is:

lying about weapons of mass destruction.

I'm convinced this is the only chance. because it was done during the state of the union address, to the united nations, and on tv so many times, there is literally hundreds of times on video tape he's said it.

when it is shown that they were exaggerating and fabricating evidence of WMD, this is the lie, the lie before Congress and the American people, that led to war, that he needs to be held accountable for and if he ever is, he will go down.

Election reform is for 08.

911 investigation is pie in the sky.

WMD is for impeachment.

[spooked911]

53. Even though I really want 9/11 exposed, I agree WMD is a better bet.

[corbett]

52. We Owe It To The Victims To Disseminate The Truth

Tactically, I don't know how that will work in terms of bringing down the shrub but we must remember that since the only thing real about 9/11 was the body count, we owe it to victims and their families to chant the truth whenever we can.

[berniew1]

54. Stolen Election 2004 first- its clearly documented-just needs followup

Widespread systematic vote machine fraud, and dirty tricks and suppression of minority registration and voting in at least 15 states in 2004 Election: summary of some of the documentation

http://www.flcv.com/ussumall.html

[berniew1]

55. Those responsible for illegal acts and malfeasance are identified by the i

rregularity incident reports in the EIRS database in many cases; and its a very narrow group of possibles in others(official or manufacturer rep or both). They just need followup to deal with the obvious illegal acts and malfeasance identified in many counties of many states. I don't understand why this hasn't been done already. Is no one concerned about fraud and illegal acts anymore?
If it were the other way around, the Repubs would be making lots of noise about it. Illegal acts should not be allowed, by either side. And the obvious partisan actions of officials running the elections needs to be addressed.

[Nothing Without Hope]

59. Yes, but the people already involved in 9/11 investigation

...should be encouraged and supported. They are not going to just drop it and start trying to investigate the election, they are committed to seeing through the 9/11 investigations until the truth is not only found but exposed for all to see. And I firmly believe that this commitment is vital for the future of this country and I am grateful for it.

The two groups of people - those committed to election fraud and those committed to 9/11 investigations - are already involved in their work and both need and deserve support. I am guessing that there are far more people involved in the election fraud, so that should take care of any fears that this work would be diluted by people choosing to work on uncovering 9/11 facts.

And by the way, I believe that there should be a separate forum for 9/11 work, rather than its being stuck in the obscure back alley it is in now: grouped with "Military Affairs and Terrorism" under "Archived & Leftover Forums."

The truth about 9/11 would bring the cartel down the way none of their crimes has. There is no spin that would spin them out of this. They would be exposed forever for the rotten-hearted criminals they are. The impact would be visceral and immediate. On the other hand, election fraud investigation is huge and must be exposed and stopped, but even the clearest proof will never convince many people in this country that the blivet** and his cartel MUST be removed from power.

Both lines of investigation need to move forward, and I don't believe that they will impede each other because people are already committed to one or the other.

[WeHoldTheseTruths]

56. No. . . And *this* Forum's focus is elections. n/m

[Last Lemming]

87. Anyone still interested in an active

9/11 forum? Or will it continue to be this?

[Abe Linkman]

96. Might be best to just focus on the absurdity of the BUSH 9/11 CTheory

Once the public becomes aware that the whole bush 9/11 CT is a lie, the next step is to expose the absurdity of the excuses for 9/11, such as:

* Negligence
* Intel failures
* Bureaucratic snafus
* "Head in the sand"
* Incompetence

In other words, the whole fallacious LIHOP excuse. Once the public knows that the OCT is a lie, and that the 9/11 attacks could NOT have happened as the result of incompetence or the Administration somehow "allowing it to happen", then the levee will break wide open. The public will soon enough come to realize that Commander Bunnypants and his chief henchmen are ultimately responsible for what can only be called "self-attacks" - and then, it will be too late for the lying liars to deflect attention away from their accountability in MIHOP.