Amalgam Virgo

[k-robjoe]

This looks really weird :

http://letsroll911.org/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5148

[The Magistrate]

1. That Is An Interesting Site Indeed, Mr. Joe

A veritable Mall of the Americas for those shopping for intricate nonsense. Here is my favorite forum on it so far:

http://letsroll911.org/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewforum.php?f=17

The pinned expose of the Illuminati, and the Master Plan of the Globalists Exposed, are rum fun....

"If you lie down with dogs you will get up with fleas."

[k-robjoe]

2. If the info is good

I don´t mind getting it from Letsroll.

But with this thing I just don´t know...
And I get the impression that this is the general feeling.

[The Magistrate]

3. Your Meaning Is Obscure, Sir

Do, please, clarify....

[k-robjoe]

8. I´m saying

like the poster Locutus on Letsroll :

"Hmmmm...would like to get a verified "official" source for that Amalgam Virgo .pdf flyer file."

[spooked911]

4. I agree with your sentiment about Let's Roll-- they have some useful stuff

there even if much of it is nonsense. Actually, I stopped going there for a while after I saw the webmaster, Phil Jayhan, say the WTC was hit by a dozen cruise missiles. He gave his whole 9/11 theory which was totally preposterous and showed an astonishing level of cluelessness.

The Amalgam Virgo stuff is interesting and real, but it's hard to know how it relates to 9/11. Some have speculated that there was an Amalgam Virgo type exercise going on the day of 9/11. Amalgam Virgo was also a mechanism for how the Pentagon could have gotten hit by a cruise missile. But I don't think there is any real evidence for that.

I think at minimum, the Amalgam Virgo exercise shows that terrorists hijacking planes and other types of airborne attacks was NOT something for which the US was unprepared.

[The Magistrate]

5. Amazing, Sir

The process by which the statement "some have speculated..." becomes the foundation for further speculation, as if the fact that "some have speculated..." establishes a predicate of fact that may serve as evidence of something else, or must be incorporated with other facts into a theory or view of events. That "some have speculated..." actually means no more than it plainly states; that someone has made a statement without any foundation in fact or evidence, and it establishes no ground at all to treat that statement differently from any other form of fabrication. This process is at the bottom of virtually every claim made by those attached to peculiar views of the attacks against the United Staes in September 2001. A foundation of sand, by compare, is damned solid footing....

"Can't nobody here play this game?"

[spooked911]

6. I'm sorry-- what's the problem?

You can simply ignore such speculation if you don't like it.

I think it reasonable to point out what some people think.

[The Magistrate]

7. Why Do You Think That, Sir?

The only value to what people think derives from their knowledge of facts and their capacity to assess them as evidence and their capability to organize these considerations into explanatory theorems. Where people treat speculation as fact, display no comprehension of what constitutes evidence, and construct ever more elaborate and intricate forms of organizing misapprehensions and speculations into an "explanatory" theorem, what they think has no more worth than a Confederate dollar.

Nor, Sir, is this strictly a matter of taste. Whether anyone "likes" a speculation or not is immaterial: it does not alter the fact that is a mere fabrication, and cannot be treated as a fact. It does not matter whether anyone likes the truth of a matter, for it will be true regardless of anyone's tastes in the question. My custom, Sir, is to acknowledge fact and sound thinking, and ignore fabrication and speculative flights of fancy in assessing matters, save where it is necessary to point out that the latter are in fact fabrications and speculative flights of fancy that cannot in any wise be regarded as evidence. Of course, if this custom were more general here, this discussion would subside to a cricket's symphony....

"The greatest of follies is a passionate belief in the palpably untrue. It is the chief pursuit of mankind."

[spooked911]

9. I never said it was fact, and I specifically said it was speculation.

There is something called the free exchange of ideas, you know. And sometimes it involves speculation, theorization and wild-ideas.

I was hardly building a whole structure on this one speculation, I was merely pointing out its existence.

In any case, do you have any useful information to add here?

[The Magistrate]

10. Would You Care To Make A Small Wager, Sir?

Within a fortnight, someone will be referring to this as a fact, or at the least as something that will explain some other "piece of the puzzle," and it will become a feature of someone's theory of the matter. That is how these things always proceed. That is how this whole species of "enquiry" began, and how it continues.

Your reference to "free exchange of ideas" is somewhat puzzling. We are not engaged in metaphysical inquiry here, in dispute on the nature of the One, or of the Void, or the meaning or lack thereof in existance. We are discussing, or some are at least purporting to be discussing, particular events in recent history. Specific things took place, and in taking place, must have conformed to the normal processes of physical reality, and of political and human realities. No contribution whatever can be made by "speculation, theorizing and wild-ideas" that cannot be placed within the realities of the physical, political and human spheres.

"Nature is a hanging judge."

[John Doe II]

11. Do you have anything

to say to "Amalgam Virgo"?
And btw I guess it is quite normal if so many information about 911 are hold back by the government eg even the passenger manifests etc then people who question the official version based on facts (like many family members of 911 do) try to think what could be the things that are hold back by the government. Naturally this is speculative.
But for somebody who likes facts I'm surprised to see extremely raraley any fact or source mentioned in your posts.
But if you like facts I've good news for you:
You can help me figure out how it is possible that the FBI considered Amer and Adnan Bukhari, Abdul Rahman Al Omari and Ameer Kamfar as hijackers? (See: The four unknown hijackers)
You can explain me how it can be possible that debris was found on Indian Lake more than 1 1/2 miles away from UA 93 crash site although not a single eyewitnes support the FBI and NTSB theory that the wind blew the debris. Moreover debris is found that clearly is too heavy to be blown by a wind of 9 mph. (See "The official UA 93 theory is a big lie")
You are most welcome to explain the presence of a white plane witnessed by many that came from the exact opposite dirction as UA 93 and was present at the crash site in the moments of the crash.
So, several occasions to document your love for facts.
But to start with you can finally let us know what yo think about Amalgam Virgo and its program (pdf document is linked on source mentioned in orginal post).

[The Magistrate]

12. What Do You Think It All Means, Mr. Doe?

"Enquiring minds want to know...."

[John Doe II]

13. Is this your way

to answer questions??
I'm afraid I asked you first what you think of Amalgam Virgo. So give us something substantial. Let us know what your opinion is.

[The Magistrate]

14. You, Mr. Doe, Are The One Who Attatches Great Signifigance To It

Do, please, share with us what that signifigance is in your mind. Clearly, you have something in there, buzzing about....

[John Doe II]

17. Well, I got it

you always want to have the comfortable position of attacking other people's judgements and opnions. I'm very sorry. In this thread I asked you first what you think about Amalgam Virgo. Is it really too much asked for that you simply answer the question of the original post?

[The Magistrate]

18. The Problem, Mr. Doe

Lies in your request that anyone else contribute "something substantial." This suggests a belief on your part that you make a substantial contribution, and suggests further that this is a substantial discussion. Neither is actually the case.

The various propositions put forward concerning substitution of aircraft, demolition charges at the target sites, intimate collaborations between the Islamic attackers and elements in the leading circles of our country's business and political life, and the like, are not substantial things: they are mere vaporings, the stuff and moon-shine of a comic book level of understanding of this world and its events. Nothing, nothing at all, advanced in support of such willful delusions can be considered substantial, and this no matter how many citations of de-contexualized elements and speculations peddled by deluded and often delusional persons are provided in effort.

Nor can a discussion in which one side is endeavoring to spread and uphold such vaporings be a thing that can be called substantial. This is not a dispute in which both sides have a good measure of right or justice on their side, and which a person only casually involved might be expected to have some difficulty selecting a side to support, or readily recognize that persons of sound intellect and good heart might be found upholding either postion in good conscience. People can no more be argued out of willful delusion in this matter than they could be argued out of any other willful delusion, like falling in love or a conviction the Christ rose from the dead or that one race is inferior to another. Thus, a different set of tools is better employed: while it might be possible to do a hammer's work with a screw-driver, it adds some unnecessary difficulty to accomplishment of the end, and few will chose to attempt such usage when an excellent and sturdy hammer is ready to hand.

"This great work teaches us how the verisimilitude of fiction is achieved by the exactness of the detail."

[meppie-meppie not]

31. Maggie, therapy is expensive. Popping bubble wrap is cheap. You choose.

[spooked911]

15. It should be noted that Amalgam Vrgo was discussed in the 9/11 commission

hearings and they talked briefly about hijack scenarios being run in the exercise. It was noted that there was to be a new Amalgam Virgo exercise run in summer of '02.

Webster Tarpley, who wrote the new book, "9/11 synthetic terror" thinks that Amalgam Virgo may have been the operational cover for 9/11 (in his book, which I just started reading). I think his opinion needs to be respected.

[Old and In the Way]

16. Was 77, 175, 93, and 11 involved in the Vigilant Guardian?

That seems like a simple question that the government could answer.

Anyone know?

[spooked911]

20. No one knows, but a lot of us supect it!

No doubt this is something the government will guard with their life.

[Old and In the Way]

24. That line of inquiry would be most illuminating.

How would that be spun? Another grand coincidence?

Seems like a straightforward question to ask and answer. Of course, if it were true, then I'd have to ask how the alledged terrorists would have gotten that information. Remember how ballistic Cheney went when the Senate intelligence committee leaked the information about the intercepted message on 9/10 that stated the "game was on"? I wonder why?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

25. The game is on.....

On May 8, 2001, ** put Cheney in charge of all wargames.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/05/20010508.html

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
May 8, 2001


Statement by the President
Domestic Preparedness Against Weapons of Mass Destruction


Protecting America's homeland and citizens from the threat of weapons of mass destruction is one of our Nation's important national security challenges. Today, more nations possess chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons than ever before. Still others seek to join them. Most troubling of all, the list of these countries includes some of the world's least-responsible states -- states for whom terror and blackmail are a way of life. Some non-state terrorist groups have also demonstrated an interest in acquiring weapons of mass destruction.

Against this backdrop, it is clear that the threat of chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons being used against the United States -- while not immediate -- is very real. That is why our Nation actively seeks to deny chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons to those seeking to acquire them. That is why, together with our allies, we seek to deter anyone who would contemplate their use. And that is also why we must ensure that our Nation is prepared to defend against the harm they can inflict.

Should our efforts to reduce the threat to our country from weapons of mass destruction be less than fully successful, prudence dictates that the United States be fully prepared to deal effectively with the consequences of such a weapon being used here on our soil.

Today, numerous Federal departments and agencies have programs to deal with the consequences of a potential use of a chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapon in the United States. Many of these Federal programs offer training, planning, and assistance to state and local governments. But to maximize their effectiveness, these efforts need to be seamlessly integrated, harmonious, and comprehensive.

Therefore, I have asked Vice President Cheney to oversee the development of a coordinated national effort so that we may do the very best possible job of protecting our people from catastrophic harm. I have also asked Joe Allbaugh, the Director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, to create an Office of National Preparedness. This Office will be responsible for implementing the results of those parts of the national effort overseen by Vice President Cheney that deal with consequence management. Specifically it will coordinate all Federal programs dealing with weapons of mass destruction consequence management within the Departments of Defense, Health and Human Services, Justice, and Energy, the Environmental Protection Agency, and other federal agencies. The Office of National Preparedness will work closely with state and local governments to ensure their planning, training, and equipment needs are addressed. FEMA will also work closely with the Department of Justice, in its lead role for crisis management, to ensure that all facets of our response to the threat from weapons of mass destruction are coordinated and cohesive. I will periodically chair a meeting of the National Security Council to review these efforts.

No governmental responsibility is more fundamental than protecting the physical safety of our Nation and its citizens. In today's world, this obligation includes protection against the use of weapons of mass destruction. I look forward to working closely with Congress so that together we can meet this challenge.


# # #

[spooked911]

27. You culd go ahead and ask NORAD. But I doubt they'll give you an answer.

Mike Ruppert asked them similar questions and they said it was classified info.

[The Magistrate]

19. Why On Earth, Sir, Do You Think Tarpley's Opinion Should Be Respected?

Perhaps you are of charitable disposition, and see no way the man could earn a living by honest toil, so that he must have royalties from the exercise in order to feed and shelter himself...?

[spooked911]

21. Why do you think telling the truth ISN'T an honest toil?

Tarpley is an expert scholar on terrorism and politics. Why don't you do some reading on him instead of casting aspersions on him?

http://tarpley.net/

[The Magistrate]

22. Telling The Truth, Sir

Is indeed honest toil. Making things up is not; neither is peddling distortions to the credulous. This fellow's expertise clearly is in those latter two fields....

"My opponent was known to matriculate at college, and is an avowed thespian!"

[John Doe II]

23. So go ahead

and answer my questions in the thread: Holes in the radar ....

[spooked911]

26. How do you know that?

How do you know that everything you think isn't wrong about 9/11?

Do you think there is no cover-up at all? Do you believe 100% in the 9/11 commisison report?

What are you even doing here anyway?

[The Magistrate]

28. Excuse Me, Sir

You seem to be under the impression the name of this little corner of the great electronic attic is "The Un-Opposed Promulgation Of Various Conspiracy Theories Concerning September 11 Forum", but that does not seem to be how it is listed by the proprietors....

"One morning I woke up and found everything I owned had been stolen, and replaced by an exact duplicate...."

[spooked911]

29. I don't mind honest discussion. However, you simply seem to want to

muddle the issue with your idiosyncracies.

Is there a reason you never respond to our queries?

Do you believe the official 9/11 story (as presented in the 9/11 commission report) or not?

If you can't bother to answer that, I see no reason to respond to anything else you write here.

[The Magistrate]

30. If You Do Not Respond To My Comments, Sir

It will not bother me in the slightest, nor will it reduce their frequency or alter their content.

"My Noble Lord requires of you three thousand ounces of silver yearly. Otherwise I will be compelled to quarter my braves on your granaries."