Flight 77 - Pentagon Poll

[Robb]

Crispy's latest post has me wondering -- where are the DUers now on the issue of plane vs. missile?

Feel free to criticize me if this poll is overbroad.

[mhr]

1. No External Building Scars, Not Enough Plane Wreckage,

And the Pentagon lawn stayed too green and pristine.

The Boeing 757 of flight 77 never existed or hit the Pentagon.

The BFEE did this deliberately to frighten the public.

[markbark]

2. Chapeau by Reynold's Wrap?

I don't know what you mean by "No external building scars"
The hole _I_ saw was pretty big (the Pentagon is about four miles from my abode (as the 757 flies))

A plane moving at 400 mph is not going to leave a lot behind. The Pentagon (unlike the WTC) is a pretty solid chunk of masonry. Additionally, the outer walls had just been reinforced to counter an Oklahoma City style attack (those wacky guys at DoD are always fighting the LAST war....)


--MAB

[demodewd]

4. re: outer walls

Those walls were only 2 foot thick and the lateral restance was profoudly weakened by all the windows.

[Frodo]

11. "Only" two feet thick???

Shall we compare that to the "walls" of a jumbo jet? They're made to hold out... air?

The skin of a jumbo jet is less than 2/100" thick in many areas. What do you think would happen to it when it hits a wall at three or four hundred miles an hour?

"Whether the stone hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits the stone... it's going to be bad for the pitcher."


With the exception of the keel, the two engines, and maybe a couple support members in the wings... there really isn't anything you could expect to survive the impact (espectially with the fuel explosion). Look at the pictures of the field in PA. That's DIRT (not two feet of steel-reinforced concrete) and there was hardly anything left.

The keel and engines are pretty solid and could be expected to run right through more than one such wall... but the rest of the plane? About what you saw.

[demodewd]

13. hole in A-E drive

Many claim the hole into the A-E drive was created by the plane's nose. I've always had problems with that...primarily because I believe the plane exploded in the E ring... or just as it hit the wall. The photograph taken immediately after the blast by Daryl Donley http://perso.wanadoo.fr/ericbart/inv4.html clearly does show that the inferno is located near or even past the outside wall and onto the yard.It doesn't surprise me that dirt would totally destroy a plane that crashed at high speed(PA). I mean just think of the density factor.

[ablbodyed]

3. I'm not being critical....

But how about a link that shows in layman terms the reasons that you think this. Do I think that it's possible HELL YES A THOUSAND TIMES YES. I just want some information.
I believe that duck-anus knew (as far as a moron like he is can know anything except fundamentalist drivel) there was something happening. Maybe deniability, but there's too many unexplained threads.
Any thanks in advance.

[mhr]

5. http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm

This Will Get You Started With Lots Of Good Graphics.

[Bolo Boffin]

17. http://www.apfn.org/apfn/not_crashed.htm

This Completely Discredits the APFN.org Site With Lots of Wacked-Out Statements.

A sample:

I have long been convinced that Hillary Clinton was behind the Nicole Brown
and Ron Goldman murders that created the distraction the night before the
very day Hillary became the first First Lady to testify in a criminal
investigation. I also know that she was involved in serious economic crime
when she received criminal payment for corrupt services in the form of a
million-to-one (i.e. impossible to come by honestly) illegally manipulated
first-timer bonanza killing in the commodities futures speculation. Also,
that she had one of the Secret Service men she detested, a man who might
have heard too much, transferred to Okalahoma city -- to perish in the
bombing of the Murrah Federal Building there, even as the
drug-trade-dealing BATF chose to be away from the office that day. And
there is the Vince Foster murder. If Mrs. Olsen is in the hands of Hillary
Clinton and her associates now, I am sure she would much rather be in the
Atlantic trench.

[bobbieinok]

21. aren't these 2 different parts of the same website?

which is the American Patriot Friends Network.

The site has a lot about the 'OKC bombing conspiracy' ... there was a 'radical fundamentalist Islamic tie'.

etc....etc....

Seems like a pretty iffy site to 'prove' anything.

[Bolo Boffin]

22. That's right, bobbieinok

That's my point exactly - looking to the APFN website to bolster belief in anything is like listening to Rush to find out what Democrats say. The spin is in - check your credibility at the door.

[Festivito]

10. Not by me, I scoured those photos myself.

This is a right-wing scam made to discredit the left-wing ideas as being too outrageous to believe, foder for Rush, Hannity, Coulter and such right-wing ilk.

[James T. Kirk]

6. It was a plane.

I met a Washingtonian who SAW it and the guy is definitely not a government stooge in on "the conspiracy".

[mhr]

7. Your Low Post Count Makes Me Suspicous Of Your Comments

I have come to believe on all matters 9/11 related that we have government infiltrators or BFEE plants spreading misinformation.

See this website to counter your claim.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm

[Robb]

8. A good infiltrator...

...would've thought of that. Or maybe by not thinking of that, they're lulling you into a false sense of confidence. Or maybe I'm the infiltrator... but I have a high post count! But maybe that makes me a good infiltrator.... :shrug:

[James T. Kirk]

9. We need to contact Mulder!

I looked at the website. Let's see... "Hillary Directed Waco", "free energy" ...
My BS detector just went off.

[DulceDecorum]

14. mhr

are you familiar with the concept of "freeping" a poll?

Are you also aware that one poll here on the DU had code written ito it that executed certain actions unbeknown to the operator of the computer?
Stay away from polls on this issue.

[Robb]

15. What are you implying DD?

Come out and say it -- what are you accusing me of?

[Lithos]

18. DD

That bug was decisively fixed by Elad.

L-

[Bolo Boffin]

16. Take a second look to evaluate the website's grasp on reality.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/not_crashed.htm

Now where exactly is the disinformation coming from?

[dofus]

12. When airplanes impact anything

at a high rate of speed, they tend to distintegrate into many tiny pieces. It's NOTHING like a car crash on a highway.

And if AA 77 didn't crash into the Pentagon, where is it? Where are all those passengers?

[Abe Linkman]

19. "stupid" poll ---- hold your fire...the word is in quotation marks

Since you are an Official Story Conspiracy Theory supporter, I guess this was to be expected; but an objective poll would have the question:
"Did FL 77 crash into the Pentagon" YES or NO.

Is this some kind of H&K effort to measure your progress? Is it part of a performance goal in a contract? What's the point?

[Robb]

20. I thought it was pretty objective, actually.

Besides, what makes you think you know how I voted?

[mobuto]

23. Just the kind of question that a poll cannot answer

Reminds me of a kid who takes a rabit into kindergarten for show and tell. "Is it a boy or a girl?", one student asks. The teacher responds, "Lets take a vote."

Polls, self-selective or otherwise, are utterly useless in determining what happened on September 11. I don't care if 99% of poll respondents believe the Pentagon was struck by a giant pink balloon, because it didn't happen that way.

All evidence suggests that American Airlines flight 77 was hijacked and flown into the Pentagon.

If you want to believe something else happened, then that's fine. But you cannot turn your opinion into fact just by persuading people that's what happened.

[Robb]

24. Wow.

You need to take that chip off your shoulder. I never suggested that by polling we could arrive at the truth -- I was just curious what the folks here believed. :shrug: