Reynold 'demolition' story could be a 'red herring'

[Rob Conn]

Please read the following short response from Michael Ruppert regarding the Morgan Reynolds story.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/061605_MorganReynolds_comment.shtml

"...the inherent risks of physical evidence arguments..." We in this forum are not on the same page about his point. Many will be typing something clever as the bombs start falling. Others are preparing with educational action to respond to the establishment of probable cause offered by Ruppert and other investigators. Some are effectively utilizing this forum for that purpose, while others serve to distract us from confronting the case that has already been made.

Now I'm not denying the importance of an active research community. However, I want to emphasize that research is not enough. It the government was involved in any capacity in the attack, we should be doing something to broaden this inquiry. Educate others. Hand out carefully written flyers. Plan peaceful demonstrations. Make challenging stickers, and give them to people who will put them up everywhere. Wheat paste 9/11 info over the latest corporate ad campaign. Create and promote a website. Start to hold meetings and invite people to explore the evidence that you can summarize for them. Make copies of your favorite un-licensed 9/11 video, or do a 'fair use' composition of all your video sources. Start a letter writing campaign. Lets all get as compulsive about promoting what we do know, as we've become arguing about what we don't. - R.C.

[philb]

1. I think complicity is clearly documented by 911 Commission testimony

and that is enough to warrent proceeding with further investigations, grand juries, impeachment consideration.
http://www.flcv.com/offcompl.html

But Reynold's article is useful because it got MSM attention for 9/11 and its no more distracting than other threads on similar topics.
I agree that people should not let their attention get diverted to trying to resolve all the physical evidence issues, since its clear that the main evidence is being withheld and covered up.
But people should proceed on both paths,
dealing with the current evidence of complicity and
trying to resolve contradictions in the evidence.

[Rob Conn]

5. Complicity

I think it is a very powerful statement to make that the Commission Report itself demonstrates complicity. We need to be thinking about the most direct manor in which to challenge the 'official story', and you suggest the most potent. This is certainly why "Omissions and Distortions" was Griffin's next book. The Report is supposed to be the best truth that we have, and yet it is filled with contradictions, and begs many questions.

I think it must be stated again that the most compelling evidence regarding 9/11 is in the public documentary record, and is not related to the physical evidence. A former Bush cohort may want to get the whole 9/11 truth movement in a furor over the physical evidence with the intent to distract us from those arguments and considerations that were more compelling and adequate to make the case.

I agree that people should be walking both paths. This is what my post suggested. But that is not what many are doing. Lets keep people aware that there are numerous responsibilities related to this inquiry. Its not enough just to know that we are right. We have to share what we believe to be the truth. - R.C.

[dbeach]

2. each credible source seems to have credibility problems..

but some truths are out..

debunkers.distractions..ect..are part of this process

Interesting that Ruppert had huge conflict with Jeff Rense early this yr.{which seems to have quieted]
when ruppert said to move past 9/11..whatever he meant by that

I try to take what I need and leave the rest..

Mant here have come a long way in a short time..to think that the US Govt did 9/11 is so unreal..until he do a careful study of US treachery
the US govt has killed many of its citizens and experimented on others;atomic tests,LSD tests,syphlis,agent orange...

Natives,Blacks,,Vietnam Veterans..many others have been demonized by the MM when the govt needed the cover...

9/11 is gonna bring out the Truth or bring on the consequences of the lies

the trains are gonna collide!

All Aboard!!

[spooked911]

3. I agree-- we should just take what we need from each researcher and

leave the baggage behind.

Ruppert is right about the physical evidence problem. However, the physical evidence is eye-catching and gets people's attention. Thus, it is very tempting to use it.

[dbeach]

4. Up late again!

Ya might like this.

the darkness can't stop the light from shing through...Sibel edmunds,.Karen K.,Ruppert,Mc Govern,Flocco,Reynolds,Karl B. Schwarz.conyers,Ron paul,Palast,Griffin...

long list of people who are giving out some truths ..maybe the truths are designed to preserve their lives..cuz when the real truths are revealed..Hell will be unchained and I ain't trying to get religious BUT can ya even imagine if the sleepers wake up to discover that the busehviks did 9/11 ,profited from their crimes and are enslaving the USA into a privleled police state run by the elites
to protect their wealth from the commoners..




http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/leonard_cohen/anthem.html
"The birds they sang
at the break of day
Start again
I heard them say
Don't dwell on what
has passed away
or what is yet to be.
Ah the wars they will
be fought again
The holy dove
She will be caught again
bought and sold
and bought again
the dove is never free.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.

We asked for signs
the signs were sent:
the birth betrayed
the marriage spent
Yeah the widowhood
of every government --
signs for all to see.

I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me.

Ring the bells that still can ring ...

You can add up the parts
but you won't have the sum
You can strike up the march,
there is no drum
Every heart, every heart
to love will come
but like a refugee.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in. "

[Rob Conn]

8. The Good Guys

Great list of the good guys. Keep it updated, and spread the word. - R.C.

[Rob Conn]

7. On the case

Yes, we must use the most pertinent physical evidence to draw people toward addressing the more significant evidence. But the aim should be a recognition of the most important evidence that makes a case for criminal indictment. New people are ripe for distraction. The physical evidence is easier to experience, and refute. Its unstable ground, and therefore more fun. The physical evidence is tempting to use, but must eventually be set among all of the more important elements of the case against the true perpetrators of 9/11. - R.C.

[Rob Conn]

6. A long way...

I have spent a great deal of time trying to determine who does not have major credibility problems. Almost everyone seems to have their point of personal intent. And that's certainly fine if they are open about their bias. Most are not. Hey, Ruppert could be an agent for the solar power industry. I'm kidding, but these thoughts are hard to ignore. And yet people like Ruppert bring to us the documentary record that we can assess for ourselves. And with some people, like Ruppert, you can determine that they are pretty good at reading the evidence. As I have examined the his sources, I have come to the same conclusions.

Jeff Rense is not to be taken seriously. He contributes to the demonization of the movement by puting the 9/11 inquiry and UFO's on the same page. His page does has some valuable information. But so do they all. He and Ruppert are on entirely different plains of significance. Ruppert carefully, and rightly protects himself from any association with those who cloud the truth or dilute the issue at hand.

Many have come a long way, but no one benefits if they are now lead astray. Lets bring out the truth and create some consequences for all of these lies. - R.C.

[spooked911]

9. Agree. Here are my thoughts on this.

I have very mixed feelings about Ruppert. On the one hand, he has done very valuable work and "Crossing the Rubicon" has some incredible info. On the OTHER hand, Ruppert has bothered me for a few reasons. First, "Crossing the Rubicon" could have been SO much better with some serious editing. The book is not accessible to the vast majority of the public (unlike, say David Ray Griffin's books), and was a chore to read. I also think blaming 9/11 on Cheney and Peak Oil, while emotionally appealing, is way too simple-minded, and Ruppert has to be more intelligent than that. So this makes me think Ruppert is a bit of a disinfo agent-- and certainly he has connections to the US military and to the CIA, which gives me pause. Then there was the whole episode where Ruppert seemed to have given up on 9/11 after the election. That was weird. Granted Peak Oil is a big deal, but it is not nearly as dire as Ruppert et al predict.

The 9/11 researcher that I like quite a bit is Webster Tarpley. His "Synthetic Terror 9/11: Made in USA" is definitely the most comprehensive look at 9/11 and is incredibly interesting overall. I highly recommend his book, as it has the most complete framework for how 9/11 could have been planned and carried out. The major knock against Tarpley is that he was affiliated with Lyndon LaRouche some time back, but Tarpley really doesn't mention LaRouche at all now and really seems to be an independent agent. I am not even sure why LaRouche is so bad, if one believes in conspiracies. But overall, Tarpley is really smart and has a lot of experience with "synthetic terror" from his research in europe.

I also like David Ray Griffin, as he is fairly clean overall, and writes in a very clear logical manner. Both of Griffin's book on 9/11 are very effective and I highly recommend them.

Daniel Hopsicker has does some good reporting, but seems to be a bit of a flake, IMO. "Welcome to Terrorland" was interesting butneeded serious editing and organizing. Some of the stories in there about Atta are so over the top, that they arte hard to believe. I tend to wonder if Hopsicker is either a bullshit artist or has been used by disinfo agents.

I never considered Rense much of a 9/11 truth advocate more just a site open to conspiracy stuff, and the UFO connection does potentially hurt 9/11 info. I rarely go to Rense unless someone links to an article there.

[demodewd]

10. re: Rense

In respect to Rense,I know that he supports the 911 Truth Movement and definitely believes in government complicity. I don't like his support of Ernst Zundel and the whole Holocaust revisionist crappola.And he certainly has retro white boy attitudes towards Mexican immigration.But he does have constantly good leads for research about 911 and I go into his site for that specific purpose.

[dbeach]

11. Rense is anti-govt

and provides a valuable service..the Israel stuff is a very touchy subject..but no one should be above criticism including Israel and their issues..right wingers control every govt everywhere..there is no govt pushing for peace and egaltarian societies.

the privleged elites do not deserve the controls nor the respect of any citizen.
what is their plan??
more wars..more cash for them..less freedoms for the commoners.
ALL TO PROTECT THEIR WEALTH AND INFLUENCE!!

be afraid ..be afraid..trust us...its a class war and the rich have again overpowered the poor...sorry to start sounding marxist or too negative..but 'the controllers' have conditioned us to worship their idols of wealth and power..keep up with the jones..lifestlyes of the rich and infamous.
had similar discusion at DU about how the whole thing could be distractions by the elites..

you notice how suddenly when the truths are exposed..here comes next Holywood star problem or runaway bride....or some tragedy

All ampified by the MM as a distraction..I am catholice but did not watch any of the pope stuff and liked the guy..but really all pope 24 hrs..regan funeral..all ronnie 24 hrs and then the repukes use the deaths to abuse dems or liberals or any free thinkers..

rense and the aliens is out there.
BUT so what if shape shifting aliens from planet x are taking over the world ..Are they repukes???
maybe its a US govt sign in the windows of the UFOs...??

we should have a discussion about ufos which may be aliens or maybe made in the USA??or just fantasy


.http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3887673&mesg_id=3887673

[demodewd]

12. more on Rense

Yes..I agree that his stance on the Zionist elitists running Israel is right on and that you get tons of censoring on this subject by MM and by many on this board. But his holocaust revisionist posts are quite offensive.

I agree that MM runs a constant drivel of Hollywood horror or something else like it be it the latest psychopathic on the loose etc and this obviously is done in part to detract the public away from the serious questions.

It is a class war..absolutely..and I don't think the American people will wake up to that fact until they become generally impoverished.

[dbeach]

13. sequence is significant

The Jews were the last to be rounded up..Now germany was a Lutheran and Catholic country...both religions have direct ties to Judaism
but were quiet...this is really difficult to write but non-Jews were the first targets ...my pal is not a Jew ..he visited Aushwitz and saw his last name 3 times and he has a very unique Polish last name...

In these very trying times..I think that much must be challenged..the control freaks will keep us divided..its their way


SHOAH=Hebrew word for holocaust
http://www.christianethicstoday.com/Issue/009/First%20T ...
To not speak out is to enable the events to continue..

"Martin Niemoeller's message, in its true form, carries a powerful moral impact. Telling the story and drawing the lessees of the SHOAH are weakened, not strengthened, when carelessness or self-indulgence permits a corrupted text to be widely disseminated. The true sequence, which culminates the Nazi genocide of the Jews, is both literally and morally stronger than the corrupt forms that are becoming now widespread:

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me."

[demodewd]

yes..but..

Yes..but let's not diminish the fact that millions of European Jews were systematically genocided before it was all over.

[dbeach]

16. righto!

I think the article accentuates both pts that the Jews were indeed massacered by the Nazis and so were some non-Jews..all deaths being equal..If the globalists are the monsters that I think they are the next holocaust will include EVERY religion and ethnic background..We all in this together..

55 million died in WW II ..hitler
Mao Stalin all killed their own citizens..
US killed many and a-bombed Japan which birthed the atomic age of fear BUT the US did not turn guns on its own citizens BUT the US has done that before..WW I Vets marched in 1929 and fed troops shot them and their families in the infamous bonus march in DC
and of course the Govt has abused many citizens dleiberately and with the MM towing their line
Atomic tests ,lsd experiments,syphilis tests,Agent Orange and now DU
Who benefits?

govt and the elites..

[spooked911]

14. Interesting series of posts. Thanks.

[spooked911]

15. Paul Thompson is great of course, but seems to be more of a

9/11 historian than an activist. However, his work has been incredibly important for activists.