WTC *bombs* on 9/11? - An amazing interview on this AMs Lizz Brown

[benburch]

Today's (July 14th, 2005) edition of "The Morning Wake-Up Call with Lizz Brown", archived at;

http://www.whiterosesociety.org/Brown.html

contains an Amazing interview with WTC hero and survivor William Rodriguez and Greg Szymanski, the journalist who has been breaking his story.

William Rodriguez says that there was an explosion in the basement of the WTC before the first aircraft hit the towers.

You have to hear this for yourself!

[Gildor Inglorion]

1. Well, something had to bring those buildings down...

if structural steel melts at the temperature of burning jet fuel, then how on earth is the internal combustion engine possible? It's as "obvious as a trout in the milk" that the WTC buildings were demolished by carefully-placed explosives.

[Roland99]

2. That's not a valid statement, though

The temperatures in the fire exceeded those of just burning jet fuel due to the closed-in area and other sources of fuel to burn.

And, the steel didn't melt. It weakened enough so that the supports started failing.

[enid602]

3. bldg 7

So much so that even building 7 collapsed (pancaked) within an hour of the twin towers? Remember, bldg 7 is the first steel-enforced high-rise in history to completely crumble after a fire. The recent high-rise fire in Madrid burned for over a week, yet still the skeleton remained. Bldg 7 housed units of the IRS and Justice Department which were investigating the Enron scandal, which makes its demise even more mysterious.

[Stephanie]

8. It was not within an hour

Building 7 collapsed in the afternoon after burning uncontrollably all day. Building 7 contained huge tanks of diesel fuel on two different floors for Giuliani's emergency bunker.

[philb]

24. WTC7 was not on same block as the towers, and wasn't hit much

Yet there wasn't a serious effort to put out the fire there. Why?
The early failure to not fight the fire was not because of danger.

The closer buildings suffered much more collapse damage from towers than WTC7, yet did not collapse? Why?

Was the problem incompetance on the part of building engineers and fire fighters or a lack of will to save the building?

It couldn't be expected to collapse as non ever had before or likely will after, from fires of the nature of that day. Which weren't that large or that hot compared to other fires.

[screembloodymurder]

27. No evidence they burned.

In fact, it's highly unlikely. BTW: Ever done any demolition? I have and I'd be willing to wager it was demo not fire that brought down #7.

[soothsayer]

4. Nope, the black smoke meant not enuff oxygen to get it that hot

Hell, people in the WTC went up and LOOKED at the planes when they were on fire!

And even if we went along with the 'it weakened one or more floors and they started dropping on each other' theory, you'd have to allow 1/2 second per floor for that to take place, but in fact the whole building came down in much, much less time. And what about the OTHER tower that fell after NOT being hit????

[Roland99]

6. The flames were visible on TV...a few floors' worth of windows were GONE

[ProfessorGAC]

10. That May Be, But, Black Smoke. . .

. . .is not an indication of lack of thermal energy. It's an indication that there was insufficient oxygen to complete combust to CO2, all the double bonds present in the kerosene, plastics, and fibers in the building and plane. In fact, the presence of black carbonaceous particulate in the fire is an indication that all the available bonds had been cleaved due to thermal decay despite insufficent oxygen to satisfy all the combustion products.

Not arguing anything about the main point. We can debate that for days.

But, black smoke is not an indicator of what you suggest. Acetylene can burn without adding copious extra oxygen, but it lets off lots of black smoke. (Ask a welder to light the acetylene from the torch head without turning on the O2 or nitrous.) And yet, the energy of the triple bond is completely discharged. The added energy obtained from the addition of oxygen allows even MORE energy, but the heat is still intense.
The Professor

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

29. And what did you think of William Rodriquez's up close and personal

account???

[MadHound]

13. Sorry, but that is BS

Jet fuel burns at 800-900 F. Structural steel doesn't begin to weaken until temps go above 1200 F. The other sources of fuel were, to a large extent, fire retardant materials, ie fire retardant carpets, drapes, furniture and coverings, structural coverings etc. etc. In addition, according to eyewitnesses, the sprinkler system was going off, including on the floors most effected. Now tell me, how is a fire going to reach that magic temp when some of the fuel it is consuming only goes to 900 F max, when the paper it is consuming only burns at a max of 600 F, when other material it is consuming is actually a fire retardant, and on top of this, the entire fire is being smothered with water?

If you listen to the tapes of the firefighters on the scene in the towers, each group of firefighters is asking for only three lines. I'm a former firefighter and if you are only asking for three lines, I don't care if they're two inch lines, that means right there that the fire is relatively minor, and completely controllable.

Sorry friend, but what we watched on TV that day was the Big Lie. Three buildings, built to withstand very extreme stresses, collapse virtually straight down into their own footprint. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and shits like a duck, then it must be. . . .

[philb]

25. Firefighters and the pictures say the fires weren't very hot

The gas burned up in a very short while; and both science and the evidence at the scene says the fires could not have been anywhere close to a temperature hot enought to melt or cause major structural damage to the massive steel beams.

Note: this is a picture taken from the building across the street of the floor where the plane entered the WTC building, after 20 minutes. People were walking around in the area behind the hole where the plane hit.

As the audio tape of the fire fighters in the building says: “the fires are small and controllable”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=45004&mesg_id=45133

[Freedomfried]

15. As a steam engineer, I disagree

Boiler tubes don't melt unless the forced draft fans are on.

[benburch]

18. Well, in steam locomotives...

The crown sheet can start to deform when dry even if the locomotive is not underway, and hence, no blast-tube draft is present. However, there may be a considerable convection draft at that time as well.

[Freedomfried]

20. I really think you need a forced airflow to melt metal to point of failure

thats why blacksmiths have bellows.

But I dont believe there was a bomb in the WTC towers.
I just think their construction was cheap.

[AZCat]

31. You're a steam engineer?

I just got my first steam project - we don't have a lot of steam here in Southern Arizona. I'll be resizing a steam condensate pump and flash tank for a hospital. It's a little job, but you have to start somewhere.

[One_Life_To_Give]

19. Disrupted Fire Insulation

The impact would have disrupted the thermal insulation over the steel beams. The insulation is what allows a building to burn without danger of collapse.

For example of a steel roof collapse see the K-Mart Warehouse fire in NJ. (One of many examples)
For examples of building "Pancaking" see "Labiance Plaza", Bridgeport CT.

[catnhatnh]

26. I worked the L'ambiance collapse in Bridgeport...

...the project was 8-10 story twin tower design using a method of construction called "lift slab" where individual floors are steel framed and concrete poured at ground level and then the floors are hydraulically jacked into position and welded to the upright columns...

...the collapse occurred while one of the highest floors was being jacked into position and a main jack kicked out of position and the floors did suffer a sequential pancake collapse.28-29 workers were killed-there were no survivors pulled from the debris...

....not sure of the engineering involved but this collapse in no way compares to wtc collapses nor should it be used as an example of a "steel frame building" collapse-this was open ironwork at only a 30-40 percent complete project,nor am I certain that all vertical supports and ties were in place.Of one thing I am certain-though the vertical beams were horribly bent and distorted long connected portions were all over the site and much of the rescue/clearing operations involved torch cutting and crane hoisting these segments out.If as I have read elsewhere in these thread,long vertical segments were lacking in the wtc debris I would be suspicious...

[philb]

21. Closed in area reduces fire temperature, not as you say

And the temperature never got hot enough to either melt of greatly weaken the steel. The gas was burned up with 5 or so minutes.

note: this is a picture taken from the building across the street of the floor where the plane entered the WTC building, after 20 minutes. People were walking around in the area behind the hole where the plane hit.
As the audio tape of the fire fighters in the building says: “the fires are small and dying out”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=45004&mesg_id=45133

[Make7]

30. How hot did the fires get? ( n/t )

[One_Life_To_Give]

17. Quench Zones

Actually there is a fine layer between the flame and the metal walls in a IC engine. This layer called the "Quench Zone" exists because the metal walls take away too much heat for the gasoline molecules next to it to ignite. For a simple experiment try removing the coolant from a IC engine and see what happens. There is plenty of heat there to destroy a motor if the surfaces are not kept cool(er).

[Just Me]

5. You are going to be SOOO removed in 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 -

,...I'm sorry. ;(

[benburch]

9. Bet me.

:evilgrin:

[Just Me]

11. Hmmmm,...what am I betting on?

Am I betting on you or the thread?

:hug:

[benburch]

12. The thread.

:)

[Gildor Inglorion]

14. Me? I know I'm a crank, but I'm harmless...

:( Not to mention EXTREMELY cute... :blush:

[pocket]

7. this was on Portland Indymedia a few days ago

maybe not the same interview, but with the same janitor.

[gulfcoastliberal]

16. A lot of suspicious things about 9/11...

No doubt about it.

[philb]

22. One witness and two pictures that make the demolition case for me

from among the hundreds of such witnesses and pictures.

“At least two big explosions occurred in the two hours following the plane crashes. Debris from the explosions was filling the air as far away as Brooklyn. "The two explosions were incredible and at the point of explosions, all you could see outside were personal belongings and office supplies raining outside," said Bob Rendine, an American Stock Exchange spokesman, whose office is nearby. "We're staying here. We think it's safer to stay inside than go outside at this point."

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/towers/mushrooming.html

http://sfgate.com/today/terror.shtml


note: this is a picture taken from the building across the street of the floor where the plane entered the WTC building, after 20 minutes. People were walking around in the area behind the hole where the plane hit.
As the audio tape of the fire fighters in the building says: “the fires are small and dying out”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=45004&mesg_id=45133

[philb]

23. Does anyone know the orginal URL for the WTC hole picture?

Which of the 2 towers was it?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

28. Thank you Ben for posting this Great Interview. Anyone who listens to

this cannot believe that there wasn't a conspiracy of silence taking place. Someday, I hope all of America gets to hear a true heros words and learn that the Official Story is the conspiracy theory.