London bus bombed opposite "controlled demolition" van

[Minstrel Boy]

From my blog. I'm not jumping to conclusions here, just identifying a curiosity from a mainstream source.

I don't know what to make of this yet, except to say look at this:



The photo is the BBC's, taken in the immediate aftermath of the London bus bombing. Notice the white "Kingstar" van parallel-parked opposite the site of the blast? (The van is facing the opposite direction of the bus; the front of the bus had just passed.) Any guess what business is Kingstar's? Would you believe, "Controlled Demolition...in areas where minimal disruption and minimal noise requirements are paramount"?

It may turn out to be nothing, as things sometimes turn out to be, but it's at least another curio for the increasingly curious case of the suicide bombers who weren't. "Why did they buy return train tickets to Luton? Why did they buy pay & display tickets for cars? Why were there no usual shouts of 'Allah Akhbar'? Why were bombs in bags and not on their bodies?" asks The Daily Mail.

No shortage of good questions these days. That's the thing about bad days.

[fooj]

1. Wow. What a coincidence.

Hmmmm.....


peace.

[bpilgrim]

71. why are london terror threads being moved to the 911 forum by the mods?

shouldn't they at least have their own category if they must be moved :shrug:

peace

[Nihil]

74. Because some people don't like other people asking questions

Not pointing fingers here, just stating the obvious as demonstrated
by their recent behaviour.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Quick guess.

They have expertise in explosions and are on the scene to provide assistance to investigators. Just a quick guess as to why they would be there.

:shrug:

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. Probably too quick for that

the people on the top of the bus are still getting off it - I'd guess the picture was taken within a few minutes of the explosion.

Kingstar don't only do controlled demolition, they also do specialist drilling and sawing.

[bpilgrim]

11. without a hair, out-of-place

must not have been such a powerful bomb, then :shrug:

peace

[Must_B_Free]

27. Not even any police there...

no tape, no lights. Lady by the engine is diving down to run away.

No uniforms; all suits.

You would not investigate a crime seen by putting 13 men and women dressed in business casual opn it to trample all over the evidence.

[Warren Stupidity]

50. The bomber was in the top back

which would be the least effective place to be on the bus.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. It's impossible to tell from the photo the time gap.

I suspect that a response to a bus bomb by authorities would be in the 5-10 minute range. This is, after all, a city with a long history of responding to bombs of all sorts.

Needless to say, I'm just guessing. Take it fwiw.

[nashville_brook]

13. one way to take that is:

behold the convenience of simpultaneous exercises, both from the standpoint of emergency response, and for an hypothesized undercover plot.

i was just reading last night about the 911 Commission mention of the "exercises" going on during 911.

]

Mike Ruppert's book (citing a White House Press Release of 5/8/01) shows that, in the weeks before 9/11, "all counter-terror response planning and organization had been placed under the control of Dick Cheney" (337). Ruppert makes an initial if still circumstantial case, the strongest that I have seen so far, that "on the day of September 11th Richard Cheney was in full and complete control" of a properly functioning command system, which then deliberately let some of the hijacked planes hit their targets (591, cf. 411, 433). <64>

Ruppert argues that Cheney was in charge because of the multiple wargames running that day -- Vigilant Warrior, Vigilant Guardian, Northern Vigilance, an NRO exercise (name unknown), and Tripod II (a non-military biochemical attack exercise involving FEMA) -- that needed coordination from outside NORAD. <65> If he has no single source to nail this claim down, it is because of the extreme evasiveness shown by officials about that day, as for example:

When asked who was responsible for coordinating the multiple wargames running on the morning of September 11, 2001, General Ralph E. Eberhart, the man in charge of NORAD on the morning in question, replied "No Comment." <66>/div]

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/postelection.html#p5

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

26. Make no mistake. With or without this episode, I believe that there

is a criminal mindset in power in America today.

[nashville_brook]

37. that image in your sig -- i want a lifesize print

it's so very calming and jarring at the same time. the colors, the vibe of the red piece of equipment. as a complete message it remains in motion, like an illustration out of context. i just love it.

[wookie294]

44. The people on the bus are investigators, not passengers n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. Yeah, sure, they all turn up in suits

and over 10 of them crowd on to it, without worrying about contaminating the crime scene.

[wookie294]

47. LOL

You're right. I looked at the photo again.

What happened to the fire? There is no fire on that bus. So the van must have arrived to secure the crime scene. Strange photo. I'd like to see the BBC link to it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. I don't think there was a significant fire with any of the explosions

A bit of smoke, but not much that was a danger apart from the actual explosion, I think, from the reports I read. Not surprising in some ways - tube trains would be built to be fire-resistant where possible (because a fire is a nightmare down there), and the bomb was on the top deck - well away from the fuel tank.

Oh, and for everyone, a picture from a different angle - showing the Kingstar van was in traffic, with a black taxi in front of it, and a silver car behind it, just like in the OP picture.

[QuettaKid]

5. HOLEEEEEEEEE SHIAT!!!!

look again...that photo is taken in the IMMDEIATE aftermath....people are still on the bus!! just beginning to get help in getting off of the thing. The Kingstar van is PARKED between 2 cars......and you know sometimes the best place to hide something is right under our noses

[Minstrel Boy]

6. Thought of that, too,

and I'm not dismissing it out of hand. The thing is, London authorities have considerable resources to draw upon for dealing with such events, having had years of experience with the IRA. I think it unlikely they would call upon a private demolition contractor for assistance, and secure for it a parking spot directly opposite the scene.

[Cassandra]

8. Is anybody that good at timing?

If they didn't know he would get on the bus, how would they know to detonate at that moment? They couldn't control the timing of the bus.

[nashville_brook]

10. conversation overheard in the van...

"DUDE! that wasn't supposed to HAPPEN!

"Lets get outta here before someone notices the side of the van says, DEMOLITION EXPERTS! shit, step on it!"

[lostnfound]

42. Another quick guess: it's a doctored photo -- it's not "BBC's" photo

The photo is not "the BBC's" -- I tracked it down on the BBC's webpage and it's captioned as a photo submitted by a website reader on the BBC. There's no telling the date of it..could have been submitted an hour or more later, after doctoring it with lettering. Could easily have been a white van parked there. Somebody might be trying to send a message or frame this company for some reason. Of course that just leaves more questions.


Anything is possible..but this doesn't have the provenance it needs.

Not to say I'd cast stones at alternative hypotheses, either. Anything is possible.

On edit:
but here's another photo showing the same van from aerial view, and 1 or 2 others.

[Minstrel Boy]

49. thanks, I hadn't seen that

Looking at that photo, it seems that the vehicles weren't parked, but were in a line of traffic that was stopped after the blast.

[City Lights]

51. And here's another from the BBC:

[lostnfound]

54. Sorry folks -- I meant "MAYBE it's doctored". Not likely, of course.

Probably a dumb idea anyway. Too many eyewitnesses.

[helderheid]

3. one more odd coincidence...

[1932]

17. What are the others?

[helderheid]

19. linkys

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4119226

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4100207

Have at it! :)

[dogday]

7. I am always open to questions

[nashville_brook]

9. wow -- amazing catch

what a great script this would make. the story told from the standpoint of the "sneakers" who barely escape notice.

but hey -- there were those peter-powered simulations going on that same day.

and the "terrorists" were duped into killing themselves -- not having enough time to get away after arming the devices.

like, "i said LUNCH, not LAUNCH!"

[QuettaKid]

14. tinfoil KICK.nt

l

[nashville_brook]

15. imagonnanominate, b/c i can't stop looking at that photo

it's so freaking postmodern i can hardly contain myself.

[1932]

16. Kingstar does road construction. And if they were involved, they wouldn't

pull one of their vans with a big logo on the side right next to the bus.

As for buying return tickets, I suspect that only one of the crew was a suicide bomber and he lied to the other three. For example, he set the timers for 2 minutes, but the other bombers thought they weren't set or that they had a longer delay and had time to get off at the first stop.

[Minstrel Boy]

22. I like this line of reasoning:

"if they were involved, they wouldn't pull one of their vans with a big logo on the side right next to the bus"

Those who say "Why would they do something that looks so suspicious?" tend to find nothing suspicious. The evidence is, therefore, self-negating.

[1932]

23. Well, you'd have to admit it would create an unneccesary raising of the

collective eyebrow from the internet conspiracy theorists, which might be counter-productive for a black-ops mission.

[Minstrel Boy]

25. I have a different take on it.

Regardless of the value of this information, I think there's a "What, them worry?" dimension to these events. Tracks needn't be carefully covered, because only internet conspiracy theorists will follow them. Since when has that been a concern? As I suggested, drawing something to our attention with a "Catch me if you can!" gesture renders the evidence self-negating to the wider world.

Also, leaving a signature sends a message for those with eyes to see, as killers often choose to do.

[Must_B_Free]

35. I'm wondering about the mock exercises

we always hear about mock exercises where things are simulated as realistically as possible. There are actors and fake blood any everything.

[nashville_brook]

36. and anyone seeking answers is easily dimissed as a matter of course

[JackRiddler]

58. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, though

So one of this company's trucks was parked nearby. I bet they have dozens of 'em. And what's their address, perhaps they are located nearby.

If someone can find some kind of other connection to kingstar, or at least a spook background, then it might mean more.

Watch out for that "evidence orgy." We don't want to end up seeing pods on this one.

Best,

[nashville_brook]

32. i would think "internet conspiracy theorists" would be the last thing on

anyone's mind given any sort of military operation.

to paraphrase owen wilson:
"what in your post-911 experience makes you think they wouldn't do such a thing? "

[Carni]

53. Road contsruction? Hmmm--any ties to the bin laden company

Not to shoot down the conspiracy aspect because I have no idea.

Just wondering aloud who owns the Kingstar co.

[Must_B_Free]

18. This is starting to parallel 911

1. duped culprits.
2. hints of controlled demolition.
3. parallel "excercises" going on at the same place and time.
4. both are politically convenient key events enabling the Bush administration.
5. Rudy Guillani nearby for both events

[nashville_brook]

20. maybe a good question to ask now is:

do the Kingstar van occupants RESPOND to the emergency
or do they stay clear?

on 911, dick cheney had ordered a number of exercises but any sort of response to the events was maddenly nonexistent. (as in how come planes were able to hit things unchallenged. where's NORAD?)

[seemslikeadream]

21. There you go again

asking questions

[City Lights]

24. Question for those familiar with blog reliability.

Is WagNews a reliable site? Anybody familiar with The Cunning Realist?

I stumbled upon another 7/7 coincidence posted at WagNews that I haven't seen discussed here. WagNews links back to The Cunning Realist for the full story. Cunning Realist states he's a longtime conservative with a strong independent streak.

I'm reluctant to post what I found without knowing whether these sources are considered reliable by DU standards.

[nashville_brook]

29. notice that

since the 7/7 disappearances in discussion forums, we are having to ask *other people* what/who to believe. in the back of this question you ask is "are these okay?" have they ever posted anything... about UFOs?" or whatever. mind control. can anyone vouch for them?

but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

the internet is a deconstructionist's swap meet. stories are spelunked, posted and passed on. know the poster's motivation, know the story. too much damn postmodern hocus pocus for a sunday morning, i know -- but that's the nature of our times.

so the funny this becomes, how can we trust another poster to on a forum to vouch anything. who the hell are THEY? yikes! trust no one. :)

the thing about the military grade explosives was reported from the beginning as a matter of fact and explained as being the stolen explosives from Iraq, ergo, insurgents. no, terrorists. the double secret al qaeda.

i can't vouch for these guys -- but wag, at least seems to be deconstructing the timeline of the materials used. that's an interesting piece of the puzzle.

[LibertyorDeath]

63. Just wait until

:rant:
The MSM decides if the info fits into their propaganda model. If it does
then it's "News" and you can link to this sanitized pre packaged shit until hell freezes over without fear of your post being moved or otherwise molested.

or you can live on the edge & link to an info source that isn't owned by general electric.

I'm not familiar with either of these sites but whatever info you have you should post.

[City Lights]

65. It's already been posted by BreakForNews.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x47972

[Zynx]

28. How is this a "controlled demolition?"

That's just weak and ignorant. The blast looks like the ones in Israel - and those involve plastic explosives wrapped in shrapnel.

Raod work companies have no experience at all with things like that.

[Must_B_Free]

30. I see no evidence of shrapnel

Its hard to tell if people are bleeding; but I'm not seeing voluminous blood anywhere.

[Zynx]

38. I said it looked like the ones we KNOW to be wrapped in shrapnel

The bus got ripped apart just like the ones in Israel - which are all the result of an on-board bomber with several pounds of high explosives wrapped in ball bearings or nails and screws or chains or other forms of metal.

A known, reputable, construction/controlled demolition outfit isn't going to know the first thing about making these sorts of bombs.

This thread should really be closed - it's clear libel per se unless you can actually prove that the company in question killed those people.

Libel per se gets people sued.

[Ezlivin]

43. Controlled Demolition is the name of the company

It was not the cause of the explosion on the bus.

Controlled Demolition was intimately involved with:
1) The Oklahoma City bombing;
2) The WTC clean-up.

Now we see their van parked right next to another terrorist target.

That explains the raised eyebrows around here.

http://www.controlled-demolition.com/

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. Did you bother looking at the photo?

The company is Kingstar, specialists in diamond drillingm sawing, and controlled demolition. The logo can be seen on their website.

http://www.kingstar.co.uk/

[qanda]

31. What about the guy on the phone

Looks like he's holding the cellphone, but talking into something in his other hand. :tinfoilhat:

[Minstrel Boy]

33. self delete n/t

[Minstrel Boy]

34. "orgy of evidence"

An interesting comment, I thought, left on my blog by human?:

"orgy of evidence.

clues that arent clues to throw any real investigations off... and totally confuse the whole situation..."

[DemonFighterLives]

39. Interesting picture

Now of course, I know nothing, but couldn't the bomb be set to go off when it passes a certain point before or in line with the van. I don't know if the bomb stopped the bus or the bus kept moving.

Another thing that crossed my mind; I heard somewhere or read it that the bus route had been changed that morning. Reminds me of a famous assassination that occured in the US.

:shrug:

[SittingBull]

40. Please note

http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?6.366

[DemonFighterLives]

56. Thanks for the info.

I didn't see anything about the changed route, but a different driver.

:hide:

[Fescue4u]

41. Either a coincidence or the dumbest bombers

in existance.

And the terrorist proably bought a round trip ticket because 1 ways are pretty well vetted nowadays (or least you think they would be)

[robertpaulsen]

46. Looks like the immediate aftermath to me.

I'm bookmarking this. It'll be interesting to see if anything further develops.

[savannahana]

55. thanks, MB, as always

nominated earlier when it first appeared in GD

[Mnemosyne]

57. .

:kick: :kick:

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

59. What if "suicide bombers" thought they were part of simulation drill??

Wasn't there a disaster preparedness simulation drill going on at exactly the same time in the same places?

I have not read much about the bombings, but it strikes me that the "suicide bombers" might have been told they were SIMULATING an attack to see whether they would be caught in time while the real plan all along was to blow them up by remote control and make it appear like a suicide attack.

[City Lights]

60. Kingstar has done work for Amec. Amec worked in DC/NYC after 9-11.

One of Kingstar's customers is Amec. Amec was selected to do the Wedge One Pentagon renovation, and did such a great job they were selected to do the Pentagon and WTC clean-up work after 9-11.

Pentagon Wedge One
Selected on the basis of a best-value proposal, AMEC served as General Contractor for this $150 million renovation. With 5 floors totaling 1.2 million sq. ft., AMEC successfully oversaw work ranging from traditional core and shell construction and mechanicals, to implementing such advanced technologies as information management, telecommunications systems and blast-resistant windows.

As a nod to AMEC’s high-quality work, after the September 11 attacks AMEC was chosen for cleanup at the Pentagon, where it is now performing demolition, removing rubble and rebuilding the damaged areas safely and ahead of schedule.

http://www.amec.com/cm/2ndlevel.asp?pageid=3034

World Trade Center/Pentagon
Following the attacks on September 11, AMEC took the lead for safety, at both the World Trade Center Site and the Pentagon. Despite posting more than 852,000 worker hours at the Pentagon and more than 3,000,000 worker hours at the World Trade Center, no life threatening or altering injuries were sustained.

http://www.amec.com/cm/2ndlevel.asp?pageid=3046

They are also working in Iraq.

Rebuilding Iraq
AMEC is playing an important role in the restoration of Iraq following the award of three major contracts for work worth up to US$1.6 billion, of which AMEC’s share will be worth up to US$780 million.

The awards, won in conjunction with Fluor, AMEC’s joint venture partner in Iraq, cover the restoration of power generation facilities and water and waste infrastructure across the country. They reflect AMEC’s status as one of the world’s largest and most experienced project management and engineering services companies.

The power contract for up to US$500 million (AMEC share US$245 million) was awarded on 12 March 2004 to the Fluor AMEC LLC joint venture and covers the provision of engineering services for the restoration, rehabilitation, operation and maintenance of power generation facilities across Iraq.

The two public works and water infrastructure contracts worth up to US$1.1 billion (AMEC share US$540 million) were awarded on 24 March 2004 to the Fluor AMEC LLC joint venture and cover the provision of design and build services for the rehabilitation of existing, and construction of new, potable water distribution and treatment systems, municipal sewer collection and treatment systems and solid waste management systems across Iraq.

http://www.amec.com/careers/careers.asp?pageid=699

[spooked911]

61. just plain weird shit

[Tuesday_Morning]

66. Radio control

from Kingstar's website:

The BM90 and 150 Construction robots have been designed for the truly heavy demolition jobs and give Kingstar an entirely new dimension for demolition jobs, in point of capacity, agility, compactness, working environment and safety as well as addressing Hand Arm Vibration Syndrome (HAVS)

Radio control gives the operator freedom of movement and a good view of the job. There is no cable hindering mobility or being damaged by falling debris. The operator can select his optimum location from where he can supervise the work and stand at a safe distance.

[Tuesday_Morning]

67. Radio control

from Kingstar's website:

The BM90 and 150 Construction robots have been designed for the truly heavy demolition jobs and give Kingstar an entirely new dimension for demolition jobs, in point of capacity, agility, compactness, working environment and safety as well as addressing Hand Arm Vibration Syndrome (HAVS)

Radio control gives the operator freedom of movement and a good view of the job. There is no cable hindering mobility or being damaged by falling debris. The operator can select his optimum location from where he can supervise the work and stand at a safe distance.

[vincent_vega_lives]

75. Controlled demolition, not with explosives.

The demolition is all mechanical.

[leftofthedial]

62. this whole story rings very false.

damn this cynicism and skepticism

I don't trust the governments that are giving us the fascist shithole that this world is fast becoming.

[loftycity]

64. Very true and on the point..leftofthedial...nt

[nashville_brook]

69. i don't read cynicism into this -- but as to skepticism...

it's just a means of inquiry. i look at this post and see an artifact that (regardless of it's validity) is a real-life illustration of the call to open your eyes. your own eyes. not minstrel's or an amalgam of what we grok to be the collective conscious of DU -- our own eyes.

if after you look at it, you get no validity -- you most definitely get an image of who we are. what we demand of discourse.

for myself, i don't have to *believe* that the van's occupants are speeding away from a black ops caper to find value in this pic: it's existence itself mocks the odd desperation inspired to conceal it. dig?

[delver]

72. yes yes yes!

i like your attitude! fuck them and their bootleg reality! the whole goddamn thing is a joke. i don't care how much media they own to prop up their pathetic veil of lies or how many supposedly believe them.
the shit is a sham and it will come down.

[John Doe II]

68. van mentioned in article

The van was certainly there at the moment of the explosion:

Daily Mail, 7/11/05:
"IN the midst of the horrors that unfolded in London last Thursday, it was one of the most unforgettable images of all. Moments after a bomb tore apart a number 30 bus in Tavistock Place, survivors on the top deck stood and surveyed the scene around them all stunned but many also remarkably unscathed. In fact, the blast killed 13 people despite the efforts of doctors who rushed out from the nearby British Medical Association.

These three pictures, taken by an anonymous passer-by and posted on the BBC news website, are the most dramatic images yet of the moments after the explosion. The first shows dust and smoke rising from the bus as frightened passers-by cower or run for safety. The second, taken moments later, shows how the blast ripped the back of the bus open on both sides as well as lifting the roof clean off yet a black cab and white van beside it appear unscathed. As the smoke clears, the third shows passers-by helping some of the survivors standing on the top deck clamber through the wreckage and away to safety. Steve Thornhill, 45, an interior designer from Stevenage, Hertfordshire, who was walking to a meeting, also captured some of the horror with the tiny camera in his electronic personal organiser. He described the explosion as a 'gigantic firecracker'. He added: 'You could smell and taste it. My ears were ringing and I was deafened. But the scene in those few minutes was incredibly calm, no screaming and no panic. 'I then saw the shocking sight of half-a-dozen people standing up on the top deck. I felt such a huge relief and thought, "They made it, how good is that?".' The white van in the pictures belonged to Kingstar Contracts, a drilling firm based in Hitchin, Hertfordshire. Yesterday a colleague of the driver said: 'Fortunately he was completely unharmed. But he was very traumatised by what he saw.'"

More on the Kingstar van here:
http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?6.366.30

[earth mom]

70. KICK and

would like to see this on the greatest page!

:tinfoilhat:

[nashville_brook]

76. it was for a few hours

and i'd love to replace the little tinfoil hat guy with something more appropriate, like a little guy burning the midnight oil.

[Henny Penny]

73. This pic is on the front page of the bbc web site right now. n/t