McKinney reopens 9/11

[JackieO]

By BOB KEMPER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Washington — Revisiting the issue that helped spur her ouster from Congress three years ago, Rep. Cynthia Mc Kinney led a Capitol Hill hearing Friday on whether the Bush administration was involved in the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The eight-hour hearing, timed to mark the first anniversary of the release of the Sept. 11 commission's report on the attacks, drew dozens of contrarians and conspiracy theorists who suggest President Bush purposely ignored warnings or may even have had a hand in the attack — claims participants said the commission ignored.

"The commission's report was not a rush to judgment, it was a rush to exoneration," said John Judge, a member of Mc Kinney's staff and a representative of a Web site dedicated to raising questions about the Sept. 11 commission's report.

The White House and the commission have dismissed such questions as unfounded conspiracy theories.


http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/0705/23natmckinney.html

[bassman79]

1. Good for Her

Cynthia Mc Kinney is a very brave woman who loves this country.
She should be commended for her efforts.

[Griffy]

33. YES.. asked why she still on topic that "sunk" her.. BECAUSE ITS TRUE!

I swear I see this as reporters (and many other people) have trouble imagining others doing something because its the righh thing to do.. not just whats best for themselves! Projecting personal selfishness!

HOWEVER.. I see this tpoic in as "on deck" ... warming up for at bat, right now we are closing in on public understanding the war was not just based on lies, but FABRICATED lies! The traitorgate/DSM convergance has WH spin on overdrive, and this has caused Rove and Libby to lie to the grand jury.. it is possible we finally cornered them with their own words! Keep up the pressure on these topics, I wonder what Bolton and Ari Fliesher(sp) have said. (You know that just before Novaks column was released was when Ari suddenly needed to spend time with his family! HA).

as for 911 .. I only ask 1 question.. what happened to WTC7? No one can answer this beside controled demo. Im open to new ideas, just none that fit the facts, the video and physics, have emerged!

welcome to DU.. its gonna be a bumpy ride!
:hi:

[TankLV]

40. Do some researh.

I suggest Engineering News Record, a host of Architectural Magazines as well as various Universities Engineering Departments' Papers on the subject.

Of course, you are all free to believe all the non-experts in this field and insist on some stupid wild theories that have been DISPROVEN by all the sources I've listed.

But hey, these are only EXPERTS IN THIS FIELD who only do this type of work 24/7/365. So who ya gonna believe, some people who BELIEVE in wild unproven theories, or the EXPERTS?

[Seabiscuit]

41. Gawrsh... is that a "support out troops" ribbon? Don't color me surprised

[TankLV]

42. Ahh yes - another ignorant post from you.

No - it's the ribbon to support the Ukrainian elections.

But thanks for proving your lame ingnorance!

[Seabiscuit]

45. Yeah... support the Ukrainian elections.

Thanks for proving your lame hypocrisy.

[joeunderdog]

62. click "Bush Knew" if you dare...

http://web.takebackthemedia.com/geeklog/public_html/index.php

[Rainscents]

71. Thanks for the link!

I just odered "Rove's War"!!!

[yurbud]

55. do you have links to this stuff? it would especially interesting on WTC 7

since no planes hit it, but it fell down anyway.

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[Griffy]

59. I AM AN EXPERT.. I believe my years in engineering.. WTC7

looks exactly like controlled demo.. whats the version you believe in? Why do you think it collapsed? I did reserch, and I can tell bunk science from real science!

Cato and Heratige foundations have hordes of "experts" telling us global warming isnt real either.

how about nobel nominated Dr. Hamishfarr and his Terri Schiavo diagnoses.

So.. you act like to have done research, if so.. please tel me why WTC7 collapsed, so I can put the question down, and get to tthe truth!

and I have construction and materials experience.. but you wont believe me.. hmm, it looks like its just a question of WHICH experts you believe... so.. why do they say it collapsed???? I suggest you question experts.. me included!

[Marthe48]

68. I watch the Bio channel shows about the family demolition company

because from very soon after Sept 11th, I thought the buildings coming down looked more controlled than not. So by watching buildings that were demolished, I try to see if I'm crazy or not. Also the owner of WTC says they decided to pull Building 7 -- like right away after its collapse.

I've got the CD called In Plane Sight, but I can't bring myself to watch it so far.

I also listen to Alphonse on Grassroots Infomedia and some of the guests.www.freedomisforeveryone.com

I think the people in charge right now are capable of anything and even if they didn't LHOP they should be ashamed that people in this country can have these ideas.

The guy that wrote the article for Poplular Science is Michael Chertoff's cousin.

I'm trying to keep an open mind but there are so many smelly things out there.

[StaggerLee]

70. In Plane Site

Watch it. You really should.

:hi:

[Marthe48]

73. I dread it

I listened to an interview on Unknown Country with the person who compiled the tape and that was pretty horrifying. Maybe someday I'll be ready. (I couldn't watch the TV coverage either)

[philb]

125. The owner admitted he had it pulled, and there's other support for Demolit

There's no precedent and no evidence supporting anything other than controlled demolition that I'm aware of.

here is evidence for controlled demolition by an expert; there are videos and analysis by other experts as well. What evidence supports something other than controlled demolition.

http://www.garlicandgrass.org/issue6/Dave_Heller.cfm

http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html
http://www.wtc7.net/

[WhiteTara]

136. thanks for the post, you confirmed my

non expert opinion that it looked like a controlled demolition. My other question never answered, where were those F16s when the planes were flying into the pentagon.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

66. Well, you addressed one issue in Griffy's post...what about the rest....

...of the comments he made in regards to the major topic of this thread??

[philb]

126. What expert has made a credible case for other than controlled demolition

None I'm aware of. but experts have convincingly made a case for controlled demolition:

http://www.garlicandgrass.org/issue6/Dave_Heller.cfm

http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html
http://www.wtc7.net/

[reprobate]

44. Yes, that's the pivotal question that will connect it all.

When and by who was WTC7 fitted for demolition? Can anyone suggest a reason that it was mined except for 9/11? Suggests to me that it was the target of the Pa shoot down aircraft.

But then I've been a conspiracy theorist since the morning of 9/11.

[grace0418]

58. I know. Many people cannot conceive of the notion that someone

would do something solely because it's the right thing to do. Especially if it was a detriment to one's career. Certainly most journalists days think of little else than their careers.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

65. Hey, Griffy...the collapse of WTC7 has to do with the huge kerosene...

...storage tank in the lower levels of WTC7. Once that caught fire, the building's structure was finished...it was just a matter of time.

[bassman79]

69. Ha!

You've gotta be joking.

So let me get this straight, the debris from the Towers traversed the debris feild which didn't extend to 7, hit 7, punctured itself through the wall, flew down the hallway, hit the kerosene (deisel) tanks, punctured them, caused the deisel to spill, ignited the deisel, the ignited diesel spread throughout the building in a manner which led to all of the main support beams to loose strength and collapse simultaneously leading to a perfect global collapse which is normally only possible with explosives.

Did I get that right?

[Griffy]

72. Possible... NIST is trying to answer WTC7 interesting draft...

they have not completed the study, but they are trying to come up with a alternate story that obeys the laws of physics. The corner of WTC 7 did take some damage, and they have shown which columns gave way 1st. You can see the building buckle along certain main columns. However.. there is 1 line in the report that says..

"Massive size of columns 79, 80, and 81 appears to require severe
fires and/or damaged fireproofing to initiate thermally-related failures" pg29

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/WTC%20Part%20IIC%20-%20WTC%207%20Collapse%20Final.pdf

(having written such reports, I know how to read them)

The paper does put forward a theory about horizontal failure which is new theory from what I know.. I'll look more into this. All you people that think I've got some unfounded ideas to support are mistaken, I am trying to wade through the science, as are many good engineers, to find the truth. I dont know it was demo.. and niether do you.. but can you admit it might be? .. cause this report works fine if the "severe damage" was caused by explosives. A theory that has demo without prior 911 knowledge is a few charges could have been quickly planted and take out the 3 columns that can be seen to fail 1st in a short time period, as in after the attack... the area was already evacuated... or other theories.. like the fires spread to the fuel tanks and causing the observable failures. The point is an open mind is needed to find answers, if you rule out demo or require it you will not get the truth... follow the evidence, not the rhetoric!

dont attack me.. show me the facts! and if your not an expert.. ask questions and learn more.

[bassman79]

76. The lobby of WTC

Another very interesting thing about 9/11 that has just come out lately is that the lobbies of the Towers were severly damaged as the planes hit 80 floors above. Pictures and eyewitness testimony show that the glass windows had all been blown out, marble flooring cracked and elevators taken out of commission. Hard to explain how the lobbies could have sustained so much damage from a plane impact at the top of the skyscrapers.

It seems a massive underground explosion was necessary to sever the main support for the towers underground before the charges in the upper floors could be remotely detonated. Like Peter Jennings said when the Towers collapsed "Anyone who knows anything about demolition knows that to do this you have to get at the under-infrastructure."

Looks like they timed the underground massive blast to coincide with the plane hit to avoid suspicion.

[philb]

127. Lots of witnesses including building engineers, janitors,etc. witnessed

the underground explosions. And anyone coming out through the lobby which was a huge mess before the collapse.

[Griffy]

130. Questions GOOD.. assumptions BAD... please everyone...

the best way to get to the truth is to stick to facts, it will take time for people to go though all the possible modes of collapse. Now if we are right in our OPINION that this building had some sort of planted explosives then given enough time and will, the truth will be revealed. I urge all 911trith people to back down from the conviction we know what happened... we don't... BUT we are asking the right questions and trying to get answers! It is fools that buy the administrations story that are closed minded, dont let that happen to you... except the fact you really dont know what happened and pursue the truth. The deniers dont want to shake the foundations of thier worldview, I just want reality... can you all understand? Be clear when talking to people between the serious questions you are asking... and the opinion you have about what really happened.

we are in a war of FACT VS. FICTION ... think about it...

Iraq, social security, CIA leaks, jobs, health care, elections, terrorism.... and many more issues, clouded by myth and propaganda!

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pauldp]

140. Sure woulda helped if they'd kept the steel. n/t

[TankLV]

39. Yes, Good for her! I wish we had a lot more Cynthia's.

The previous commission was an utter joke.

[WhiteTara]

138. Cynthia McKinney for Presiden and Jan

Schakowski as her VP. We could get a lot done in this country that would actually help people.

[Angry Girl]

2. I'm impressed! If only all non-GOP had her cojones... n/t

[WhiteTara]

137. Cynthia has Ovarios

Angry Girl. All strong women have them. We don't need conjones.
:)

[ninkasi]

3. Cynthia McKinney

is a true patriot, and has been brave enough to speak the truth from the very beginning. I believe a lot of her Democratic colleges owe her some huge apologies, and should recognize their debt of gratitude to her for speaking up from the beginning, instead of waiting to see which way the wind was blowing.

If we had more Cynthia McKinneys, we would have fewer neocon, warmongering liars and Bush asskissers who are willing to see our country ruined, and our Constitution in tatters.

[truthisfreedom]

4. that's the best way to keep the echo chamber noisy and the bushco aides

busy beyond their means. we need assaults on all sides of bushco... so much that they can't possibly keep up, and press and leaks and coverage like they've never experienced before. meanwhile, for "some" reason we'll see escalating attacks, and bush's numbers will drop and drop and drop until everyone sees him as the perp he is.

[ispeculate]

5. I do love this woman eom

[keopeli]

6. Where's Karl Rove? He's ususally there to quash these kinds of storries...

[rodeodance]

10. have not heard much from Karl lately. He is in the woodwork doing his

dirty work no doubt. Or maybe busy with his lawyer???

[Swamp Rat]

11. He's probably shitting tacks right now... and destroying evidence.

[wli]

7. "conspiracy theories implicating president aired at 8-hour hearing"

Clearly the reporters aren't taking it seriously yet. But now with some science weighing in the MIHOP will be circumstantially exposed and some subpoenas for the insider trading and anything else there's still evidence of can be written up once there's a Democratic majority.

[goforit]

19. Yes, good point.

Lihop or mihop, either one.

Insider trading is certainly truth that they knew it was about to happen. But,
Did they warn all those people in the buildings who
died?
Did they warn American Airlines?

No...they didn't.

But they did fill their pockets full of cash that day
and like little school boys playing in the school yard,
they had a great time watching the airplanes crash and the buildings come down.

Hmmmm......In honor of Perry Mason, Convict the bastards Cynthia!!!

[JohnyCanuck]

8. From TVnewslies.org

They Are Not “Conspiracy Theories”
They Are, in Fact, “Discoveries”

<snip>

When new facts are brought out about controversial issues, something strange happens. Minds close and battle stations are taken. A confusion arises between unfounded theories and actual facts, discoveries, clues or evidence that may or may not support existing beliefs about those issues. We have to make a serious effort to distinguish between the expression of an unfounded theory and the disclosure of verifiable information and facts.

Today there is an ongoing battle between those in possession of newly discovered information and those who do not want to even consider the validity of that information. Real evidence and factual information are being lumped with baseless theories. This is not always the fault of the person to whom the information is presented. In many cases, the presenters offer unpopular conclusions too quickly that alienate their audience. This is often the case when new information about the events of 9/11 are revealed. When people are involved in discussions about the attacks, they are prone to dismiss verifiable evidence because they are offended or distressed by greater ramifications that arise. . This is both unproductive and dangerous. Information has to be examined and evaluated, regardless of its wider implication. That is the responsibility of the recipient. But there has to be a way to clearly present valid, tangible, verifiable and often undisputed information so that it is more readily accepted. That responsibility belongs to the presenter, who must deal with facts rather than conclusions.

Another thing to keep in mind is the possibility that a simple discovery can disprove a great deal of what is previously accepted as truth. At the same time, however, it may not completely prove the validity of an alternative theory. It only proves that an existing belief is wrong. This is the case regarding the mountains of evidence uncovered by the independent 9/11 researchers. What they have discovered easily disproves the official version of the events and the Kean Commission findings. What it does not prove conclusively is what actually took place.

There is also another factor to deal with when dealing with the truths, half truths, and lies that surround events not clearly resolved in the minds of the public. Holding on to half truths is often easier than accepting that one has been fed a truckload of lies in the first place. Suffice it to say there is a large segment of the American population that continues to dismiss every one of the verifiable findings of the independent 9/11 research community. They absolutely refuse to accept even the most convincing proof because they dare not admit to themselves that they have been lied to by officials in whom the placed their trust. Betrayal by those who lead the country they love is simply too painful to accept. Denial is too often the best defense of the deceived.

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/they_are_not_conspiracy_theori.html

[petgoat]

60. Facts and Theories

We make more progress with the uninitiated if we stick to facts. The
facts can be presented as evidence of Bush's criminal negligence in his
failure to prevent 9/11 despite warnings from 11 countries and 3 FBI
offices.

Once people know enough to recognize the negligence, further research
and reflection will lead them to LIHOP or MIHOP. But trying to bring
them too far too fast will only alienate them.

Look at Fahrenheit 9/11. It didn't tell the half of it. But America
wasn't even ready for half of it.

[Endangered Specie]

9. Sigh, I hope she doesnt ruin the image of other House Democrats.

[sintax]

12. Image?

Less concern about 'image' more interest in discovering the deep truths.

Image can always be altered with a facelift.

[54anickel]

13. You mean the spineless, roll over & play dead, pansies image?

[CantGetFooledAgain]

14. LOL

Good one!

:rofl:

[bearfan454]

22. Yep

DLC = repuke lite = lose elections.........plain and simple.

[smirkymonkey]

37. Touche!

Nice one! :rofl:

[TahitiNut]

18. Nothing enrages narcissists more ...

... than when someone ruins their image. So, we must NEVER even dip a toe in the water lest the reflection be disturbed. The Chimperor isn't the only Narcissist in government, merely the most hopelessly pathological. The House and Senate can be aptly described as the "Hair Club for Men" - infested with comb-over and hairplug devotees. If these preening peacocks listened to the voice of the People with anything near the passion that they wallow in the sounds of their own voices, our elections processes wouldn't be in anything near the condition they are.

[leesa]

27. Oh yes, heaven forbid we investigate one of the biggest crimes on

US soil. We wouldn't want any reputations damaged!

[MisterP]

46. because cowardice is regarded as the epitome of political ingenuity

[Media_Lies_Daily]

67. Are you referring to the ones who have yet to speak up? Or are you...

...referring to the ones that have enabled the NeoCons?

[Cronus Protagonist]

15. Cynthia McKinney is a True American Hero

No kidding. Bona fide. The real deal.

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[rman]

16. kick and recommended

-

[althecat]

17. Wow!

[freedomburn]

20. Cynthia MCKinney is my hero!

She has ovaries of steel and she is definitely on to something here. My research tells me that this storey is explosive and that there is substantial reason to suspect an inside job with a cabal in the government aiding the hijackers. "The government" is not a monolithic organization. It is entirely possible for a conspiracy to have involved itself in this.

It took 40 years for the truth behind the Kennedy assasinations to come to light. The truth will be known here, too, thanks to brave women like Cynthia McKinney!

[catzies]

30. "Ovaries of steel!" Brilliant!

Notice most of the Dems with intestinal fortitude are women?

With exceptions like Mr. Conyers, of course.

Barbara Boxer. Maxine Waters. Cynthia McKinney.

OVARIES OF STEEL, UNITE AND TAKE OVER!

[Rainscents]

74. Maybe Conyers has steel of penis?

I love Cynthia, Conyers, Boxer, Kucinich and Maxine Waters also!!!

[MelissaB]

21. "Congresswoman McKinney is viewed as a contrarian," panelist Melvin Goodma

"Congresswoman McKinney is viewed as a contrarian," panelist Melvin Goodman, a former CIA official, said. "And I hope someday her views will be considered conventional wisdom."

[goforit]

23. If Bubba and the chimp are suspects...shouldn't they be arrested.....

immediately???

Boxed in a corner, they will attempt many more 911s.

In a real psychiatric ward, if a patient is viewed violent
and dangerous they use restraints and seclude them from
hurting others, and then attempt to communicate and resolve
issues.

Now I have always contended that in this scenario...

We should arrest, then convict, then impeach,....
before any more people get hurt.

[il_lilac]

83. makes too much sense

therefore it will never happen.

[bearfan454]

24. I worry if she gets too close

Things happen when the bush cabal is about to be exposed.

[bunny planet]

25. You go Cynthia. There was a lot of 'coincidence' theory in the Sept. 11th

commission report.

[RandomKoolzip]

26. "Contrarians and conspiracy theorists...."

Damn that liberal media!

[leesa]

28. Well, it IS a theory of conspiracy that the Bush Admin did 9-11 and

there is a LOT of circumstantial evidence showing they were involved. Let's ask the questions and see if the evidence can be corroborated.

It certainly makes more sense than the fantasy conspiracy theory the government made up.

[RandomKoolzip]

29. I agree. I'm just saying that their word choice betrays their biases.

The word "Conspiracy theory" immediately signals "no credibilty" to many readers. They could have said "amateur and professional investigators and reporters" instead, or something similar, which I bet they'd do if they were reporting on investigating Clinton or another Dem.

[philb]

128. The official theory of 9/11 is a conspiracy theory of 19 arabs with

questionable training and background pulling off a huge operation with a little money support from the Pakistani ISI,Saudis,etc.
that outsmarts the whole U.S. Defense and airline security establishment.

The plan was obviously not a plan that would have much chance of success without extremely unusual help from the authorities, and neither the evidence nor the majority of witnesses support the official conspiracy theory.

And its clear there has been a huge cover-up?

http://www.flcv.com/coverup.html

can anyone answer any of the unanswered questions listed?

[sattahipdeep]

31. Atrocity on 9/11 2001.

Senator, this is the mother of all smokescreens.

You are trying to divert attention from the crimes that you supported, from
the theft of billions of dollars of Iraq's wealth.

"Have a look at the real Oil-for-Food scandal. Have a look at the 14 months you were in
charge of Baghdad, the first 14 months when $8.8 billion of Iraq's wealth went missing on
your watch. Have a look at Halliburton and other American corporations that stole not
only Iraq's money, but the money of the American taxpayer.

"Have a look at the oil that you didn't even meter, that you were shipping out of the
country and selling, the proceeds of which went who knows where? Have a look at the
$800 million you gave to American military commanders to hand out around the country
without even counting it or weighing it.

"Have a look at the real scandal breaking in the newspapers today, revealed in the earlier
testimony in this committee. That the biggest sanctions busters were not me or Russian
politicians or French politicians. The real sanctions busters were your own companies
with the connivance of your own Government."

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0517-35.htm

Iraq had no connection to the atrocity on 9/11 2001.

[54anickel]

34. Great read - thanks for posting. I like the Rummy part

As a matter of fact, I have met Saddam Hussein exactly the same number of times as Donald Rumsfeld met him. The difference is Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns and to give him maps the better to target those guns. I met him to try and bring about an end to sanctions, suffering and war, and on the second of the two occasions, I met him to try and persuade him to let Dr Hans Blix and the United Nations weapons inspectors back into the country - a rather better use of two meetings with Saddam Hussein than your own Secretary of State for Defense made of his.

[Zorra]

32. It was Cheney, some PNAC, that knew. They pretty much kept Bu*h in

the dark about any details. All Bu*h knew was that something big was going to happen that was going to change history and give him a chance to act like John Wayne for awhile.

Basically, it was this, "Little Georgie, we are going to do something very big that will make you look like a really good little boy. We'll tell you exactly what to do while you fly in the jet we gave you after it happens. You just listen to Uncle Dick and do what he says, and everything is going to be alright"

Realistically and logically, if you were going to drop the WTC, would you let Commander Cuckoobananas in on the secret? The guy is a moran and a piss poor liar. After planning and scheming for so many years, there is no way Cheney and the PNAC crew were going to let Bu*h spoil their big chance to finally install a permanent extreme RW dictatorship in the US.

[54anickel]

36. Heh, that sure fits with his stammering in the very first appearance after

the incidence compared to his "dynamic" (as the REpukes call it) :eyes: appearance after they got him properly wired, errr I mean briefed.

[KansDem]

51. "We'll tell you exactly what to do while you fly in the jet we gave you...

I think the reason he flew around for three days is, after he saw the magnitude of 9/11 he came unglued. His handlers had to slap him around a bit to get him back into the program and cooperating. Just like the pretzel incident. I think one of his handlers "called on him" at the White House and slapped him around because he wasn't doing/saying something the way he was suppose to. I'd like to do some research to see what changed around that date or shortly thereafter that could be attributed to his "treatment."

[sattahipdeep]

35. From the what-it's-worth-department: James Hatfield

The latest New York Times/CBS News poll showed Dubya's
approval rating fell to 53 percent from 57 percent a few weeks ago,
its lowest since he took office. Only 50 percent of those polled
approved of his handling of the economy, while 47 percent approved
of his foreign policy performances. Some 44 percent felt Dubya was
not respected by foreign leaders, a mere 39 percent agreed with his
policies on the environment, and a whopping 61 percent of
Americans believed the new prez was not addressing the issues
they care most about.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/Hatfield-R-091901/hatfield-r-091901.html

[TroubleMan]

38. Now if all the Dems had spines like her and Kucinich

we could win elections and change things for the better.

Too many "Democrats" kowtow to their corporate masters.

[loudsue]

52. Yep, Kucinich is right in there with the best of them...

:loveya: I love Dennis, too!

:kick::kick::kick:

[Sven77]

43. its on CSpan.org sometime in the future

i hope the 5 hr video will be on C-Span

http://www.911citizenswatch.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=598&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

[Al-CIAda]

47. .

[stanwyck]

48. I don't think Cynthia realizes

that she has support among white surburanites here in her district. My husband and I and our two 21-yr. olds voted for her. And we're not in "liberal" Decatur. We're in Bush country...Tucker, GA. (fortunately, stilll part of Cynthia's district). And even the few folks in our neighborhood who put up Kerry signs don't put up Cynthia signs. She has been vilified so thoroughly here in Georgia. And nationally. The hate-radio guys loathe Cynthia and spread outrageous lies continually about her. Boortz is one of the worst. We were thrilled when she got sent back to the House last September -- despite a concerted effort to defeat her. Every election we get the same old Republican operatives at our door arguing against her. They're livid, about to stroke out, that WHITE PEOPLE would vote for Cynthia. They actually hate her more than Hillary.
Ah, the poisonous combination of racism and sexism with the hatred of liberalism mixed in. The most potent of cocktails.
Add to that the punch to the gut of her being right about there being more to 9-11 than the Bushies want us to know.
She needs our support. There are armies of conservative operatives out to destroy her.
(there's nothing the old white boys of the Republican party hate more than a very tall, very noisy black woman who happens to be....right when they were wrong.)

[grace0418]

57. That is disgusting! I had no idea she was treated so

poorly. Thank you for your story. I saw her speak at an anti-war rally in Chicago and thought she was amazing. She touched a little on how she was ousted and regained her seat, but I had no idea it was that vicious. It makes me respect her even more. I guess there's a point when you say to yourself "Oh fuck it. The people with brains and hearts know what to believe about me. Everyone else can fuck off. I'm going to continue doing my work." I just hope she doesn't get the Wellstone treatment.

[Rainscents]

77. I believe, there were many web sites they bought in lot of money in for

her last year and I for one, donated money for her to get elected last year. I live in WA State.

[lumpy]

49. Cynthia McKinney is a true patriot.

So many of us with conscience hope this will be an ongoing investigation. The truth must come out, not remain hidden like it did in the JFK assassination. The world will never gain faith in our leadership if we aren't privy to the truth of government and regain some modicum of integrity.

[drduffy]

50. Cynthia, you have supporters

all across the country. There are a good number of us here in North Carolina who have come to believe in govt. complicity. And we are social workers, psychologists, licensed professional counselors and other mental health workers. IF we didn't have enough reasons to hate bush and the neocons for the other crap they have done and are doing, 9/11 would suffice by itself.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

53. I don't know if I buy the conspiracy but I think it should be investigated

When one political party is in control and purports to conduct an investigation of itself, and when one President appears to revel in 9/11 as the greatest single day in his political life, I think that should raise questions. I see no harm in asking the questions and spending whatever time and money it takes to explore all possibilities.

[WhiteTara]

54. Another of my heros with ovarios!

:woohoo: :bounce:

[cosmicdot]

56. seeking 'the full and unvarnished truth'

misc. quotes

"Ever since I came to Congress in 1992, there are those who have been trying to silence my voice. I've been told to 'sit down and shut up' over and over again. Well, I won't sit down and I won't shut up until the full and unvarnished truth is placed before the American people."

"In November 2000, the Republicans stole from America our most precious right of all: the right to free and fair elections... Now President Bush occupies the White House, but with questionable legitimacy."

"This is a time for leadership and judgment that is not compromised in any fashion. This is a time for transparency and a thorough investigation."

:patriot:


March 5, 2002

Ms. McKINNEY. "Mr. Speaker, I am worried about what is happening to our great country today. I fear that many of us cannot see what is happening here. Maybe we are too close. Maybe there are even people who do not want us to see; but our friends and allies in Europe and elsewhere are reporting that they are seeing disturbing developments in our country, like the fading of our fundamental constitutional rights, the creation of a war machine that threatens world peace, the spending of a generation of Americans on this war on terrorism, and even an attack on truth in government by forming the Office of Strategic Influence to lie to us and to the rest of the world. The President even asked Hollywood to make these developments palatable to the American people.

With this as a backdrop, I would just like to ask that Members close their eyes and imagine being drawn deeper and deeper into black space. If Members keep their eyes closed and if they close them good and tight, they will be able to imagine themselves going faster and faster and deeper and deeper into a black unknown.

All of a sudden we see a bright light at a distance far away, but faster and faster and closer and closer it becomes brighter and brighter; and in one instant, with one grand motion, we can cross from the darkness into the light. But just before we make the crossing, a huge booming voice coming from nowhere, and at the same time coming from everywhere, booms all around us: You unlock this door with the key of understanding. Beyond it is another dimension, a dimension of hearing that which is not spoken, a dimension of seeing that which is invisible, a dimension of reading that which is not written.

We are moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. Welcome. We just crossed over into the Twilight Zone, otherwise known as George Bush's America. For it is here and only here that the White House could receive warning after warning of massive attacks that were going to take place on American soil, the attack happens, and both the President and the Vice President, in separate phone calls to TOM DASCHLE, ask that Congress not investigate what happened and why. That could only happen in the Twilight Zone.

Or that an administration battling worldwide perception, as well as a domestic one having come to power in circumstances like Zambia's or Kenya's, could form a shadow government inside the selected government, with no one in the real government knowing about the shadow government except the shadow leaders in it. That could only happen in the Twilight Zone.

Or that this President could propose the biggest hike in defense spending, where his dad stands to make a mint, as long as increased spending does not get lost wherever the $2.3 trillion is that the Pentagon has already lost, and the Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, says we can afford it. That could only happen in the Twilight Zone.

Or that Arthur Andersen, who kept Enron's books, could still have contracts to keep the books over at FBI, DOJ, and the Pentagon. That could only happen in the Twilight Zone.

Wake up, America. We are not only in the Twilight Zone, we have crossed the threshold into George Bush's America."

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2002_record&page=H676&position=all

[Gregorian]

61. Wow. I'm starting to feel hopeful again.

Could it be true? Am I really awake?

Somebody pinch me.

[jsamuel]

63. Interresting

[bassman79]

64. If the collapse of WTC7 had ever been shown on TV...

other than when it aired live, it wouldn't be just Cynthia Mc Kinney asking questions. Everyone would be asking questions. Luckily for the real terrorists, the footage of WTC7 collapsing has NEVER been re-aired and the fact that a third skyscraper imploded in NYC on 911 isn't even known by the vast majority of people.


wtc7.net

[applegrove]

75. How sad for those families. They need a real and true accounting

of what happened and not an accounting that fits into one agenda or the other.

No wonder the families are so disappointed.

Sad for them.

[bassman79]

78. They need to speak out more forcefully

If I was related to someone who died in 9/11, I would use whatever media attention I could get to shout from the rooftops about WTC7, the demolition, the Air Force Standown, the Prior Knowledge, etc.

Its hard to understand why more aren't. Surely their personal interest in this has lead them to search out 9/11 info. Surely many of them have come across the damning info. Hmmmm....

[applegrove]

79. I don't agree. Sorry. But I don't think the WH did anything but tragically

& narcissistic-ally ignore the bin Laden issue. There was info out there that Islamist terrorists were getting into suicide planes. It was out there in the public.

I remember talking to someone who was in New York just after the first bombing. I said - going to New York - you must be nervous. That bombing was sure scary. They said they were not going to the WTC.

That was in 1993.

I wish the families new as much as they wanted to know about the WH thinking leading up to prioritizing Iraq instead of bin Laden. I know they feel that way.

There was no order to stand down. They just hadn't assumed they would never see an attack 'not coming'. They tragically assumed they would never be attacked by planes from within. I was in Canada and it was an awful day. All the planes on the whole continent were pulled from the air pretty quick.

Sorry you find it intriguing. It was just awful and pretty obvious to most people that it was a simple case of a failed attack on WTC in 1993 and then a more successful plan by Islamists who used an understanding of engineering.

Thing is that most other countries in the world have some experience of terrorism. Why is it so hard to believe that you were victims of it for you? I do not know. But I would guess that it has to do with the fact your President is a liar and his cronies believe in myth-making. So you no longer know who to trust and what to believe. I am sorry you were so exploited after such a trauma.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[applegrove]

81. Buddy - I don't go willy nilly to sources on the internet. The internet

will tell you just about anything. I stick with writers and sources I know are professional and trustworthy. I am discerning about the stuff I read or look at.

Sorry.

[wclubin]

82. ok then tell me how your sources explain that the side of the

pentagon had no damaage from wings. Just a hole smaller than what a 757 can fit through.

[applegrove]

84. The pentagon is the larges structure in the world. It is made out of

stone. It would be like flying into a mountain. The wings are filled with fuel and made out of aluminum. They explode.

It is not the same building as the WTC. That had an outer skeleton of steel. Bendable steel. Rocks don't bend. They don't melt.

Have you ever seen a rock bend? You cannot even melt down a rock and get it to bend. You have to grind a rock up to suss out the iron to get pieces of iron which you can then melt to get something which you do chemistry too to get it hard enough to be steel. And it is not as hard as rock.

Or did they build the Pentagon out of mica?

Oh - I'm getting jumpy. There is no need for you to try and tech me something I know not to be true.

The hard answer is that there are terrorists out there. And like all countries of the world - for the first time - the USA is vulnerable.

I'm sorry your President is such a patsy and his handlers such a bunch of megalomaniacs that they lie to you all the time. But they didn't invent terrorism. They just used the event to further their own selfish and narcissistic dreams. They toyed with your trauma. And you do not know what to believe.

[wclubin]

86. If the pentagon is so strong then how was the 757 able to poke a hole

into it?

[applegrove]

89. Because it weighed more. It was a missile. Sorry. This is a sad

topic. I just can't go on and on and on with you.

Sorry your leaders are liars and you don't know what to believe.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WoodrowFan]

134. no this BS again

as was explained here many many times, the hole fits a 757 andf there WAS wing damage.

http://www.geocities.com/someguyyoudontknow33/

I won't welcome you here, but instead will say "bye bye"....

[jsamuel]

87. You contridict yourself

The "plane" managed to penetrate all the way through level C. No plane, even a 757 should be able to do this since as you say, it is made of stone.

[applegrove]

91. Fuselage is shaped like a missile. No contradiction at all. When a

plane hits a mountain the wings are the first things to go.

Like I told the other guy - this is too sad.

I am sorry your President exploited the situation when you were traumatized and now you don't know what to believe or if you can believe anything. Your king is a fink. He should have led his country into healing and Afghanistan and not played with you all. That is what a real leader would have done.

[wclubin]

92. what does it matter what it si shaped like. A cigar tube is also

shaped like a missle, but it too is made of aluminum and thus can't poke a hole into the pentagon, according to your own logic.

[applegrove]

93. And when planes hit mountains the fuselage gets compacted like a accordion?

Horizontal aluminum wings are not the same thing as something shaped like a missile that weighs lots. They act a little different.

[jsamuel]

94. Thanks for the personal accusations and attacks

Try talking facts next time.

Planes that have crashes head on have the front of the plane fold in on itself because of the weak structure around the nose. In other words, it doesn't have any strength like a missle does and would NOT be able to penetrate. The force would likely send the plane through the first layer, but not through 2 more to level C.

In fact, even missles have a hard time penetrating, which is why we have some called "bunker busters".

[applegrove]

95. A suicide plane went into the pentagon. That is a fact. It is sad because

there were many victims. I just don't feel up to arguing about such things tonight.

I am sorry your President is a liar. That is a fact.

[jsamuel]

96. Wow, that is the best arguement EVER!

If you can't win an arguement, say "I don't care, I'm right, your wrong, nana nana nana."

[applegrove]

97. 6 Billion People agree!

[jsamuel]

98. Don't give me that "if everyone believes it, then it must be true" stuff

Again, you are not argueing with facts that are relevent to the arguement. Most people in the world believed it was flat too. It didn't make them right. If you can't defend yourself with real facts, then I will not bother having this arguement any longer.

[applegrove]

99. What about all the witnesses and the plane fuel. Really - this is NRA

logic.

[jsamuel]

100. You show me a witness that said they "saw a plane fly into the pentagon"

not just saw a plane fly low in DC

Those are two very different things.

I heard of a witness who said they saw an F16 shoot down a plane near DC.

On Edit: They had a heliport right above that spot where they would store plane/helicopter fuel. If you see the pictures, there were two separate explosions. One from the impact, then a second one that had a less yellow, more red color.

[applegrove]

101. Now there are no witnesses. Ignore the jet fuels that hurt and killed

people. The hospitals, the parking lot (biggest in the world). Ignore the eyewitness accounts of those injured who escaped. Ignore the investigation. Ignore everything.

And I have a problem with the facts. Good night!

[jsamuel]

103. Don't put words in my mouth. I said show me someone who SAW A PLANE

fly into the pentagon.

You cannot, because no one did. They felt it, they heard it, they saw the fireball. They saw and heard a lot of things. However, no one "saw a plane" fly into the pentagon.

Even if it were a plane, it would have been moving too fast at that low of an altitude for anyone to make out what it was. So don't make up people who supposedly saw a plane hit the pentagon.

On Edit:
What investigation? There has been no investigation. There were some congressmen talking to people like Rummy, but that's it.

Your the one who is ignoring. You wish to stay in denial and will take any out that you see, even if it makes no sence and has nothing to back it up.

[applegrove]

104. So you are saying there is evidence. You just pick up on one piece

'nobody you saw on TV said they saw the plane at that exact momment' and go with that.

So there is lots of evidence that a plane flew into the pentagon. Why try and change my mind. Why?

I'm following the evidence same as you. You say there is lots of evidence. I'm following it.

See more at my post here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1952343&mesg_id=1952343

[jsamuel]

105. I am not trying to convert, simply make my argument.

That is what human beings do. I do not need to make you agree. I simply need to point out the truth. If I am wrong, I would gladly convert over to your side. I have just seen too much to not want a real investigation. I am not arguing that it was LIHOP or MIHOP, just that I want a real investigation that takes testimony of those who were actually there that day and uses science to find out what really happened. Not one that takes the word of the Secretary of Defense and stops there.

[applegrove]

109. How do you think they found out who hijacked the plane? Did the

FBI stand down too?

[jsamuel]

112. I don't know

But I can tell you one way they would know.

They knew of the plot before hand and did nothing to stop it, that is how they knew both the hijackers and which planes to worry about.

On Edit:
Actually the FBI was having "exercises" that morning. The topic was "hijacked planes flying into buildings".

I know it sounds like a crazy thing to say, but it's true.

[jsamuel]

106. Self Delete

[jarab]

107. Pardon the interruption ... (directed at this subthread)

While obviously disagreeing with one another - which is good - we need to be mindful of the required civility.
Thanks.

[jsamuel]

108. LOL

Thanks :hi:

:rofl: :patriot:

[applegrove]

110. It may have been directed at what already was deleted. Thanks

Mod. You are mod!

[jsamuel]

111. My deleted post was a dupe :)

I think he just meant in general

[applegrove]

113. Above yours. There was another that was nasty. It happens.

[WoodrowFan]

133. oh PLEASE

There's a least one Duer who saw it and a friend of mine working on a construction crew nearby SAW IT HIT, Try doing a little research on site snot run by the loonies, then you can come tell us the black is white.

in the meantime, bye bye!@!

http://www.geocities.com/someguyyoudontknow33/

[mallard]

114. Re: "Fuselage is shaped like a missile. No contradiction at all."

Don't you think the nose of an aluminum body airliner would be completely crushed and deteriorated by the time it hit the second or third huge concrete wall section? How could it possibly have just kept hammering its way through wall after wall if not for a structural design for penetrating solid objects?

That's not what would happen with a regular aircraft and there is no other such example for comparison.

Some parts of the wings and remains of the engines would have to be left on the exterior too, since they didn't fit through that original circular hole.

You provide a message of confidence in the official story for still unexplained reasons. Is it to educate doubters or deflect valid inquiry?

What amazes me is the many forms in which attempts to dissuade these kinds of observations come in. The 'offshore, couldn't be true, but dislikes Bush' group is fairly elite.

[applegrove]

115. Okay - when I started this discussion - it was because somebody

made the point that the wings didn't puncture wing holes in the Pentagon. Now you are agreeing with my point. Perhaps you should talk to them. If the people who don't believe 9/11 was a terrorist attack cannot even agree on the evidence..there is no way I can discuss.

I get itchy talking about that day like nothing else happened other than someone lied to you.

I'm too itchy to go on.

Good night.

[intensitymedia]

118. i'm not agreeing with your "point" - you have no point -

plane crashes leave debris. Where are the engines? Where is a shred of the aircraft? Where are the remains of the "passengers"? There were none. That round hole punched in the pentagon was not the result of an airliner flying at high speed a few yards off the ground - an impossible flying feat anyway. All the security tapes have been confiscated by the FBI, and with no "remains" or debris to be recovered at the site -

and your "point" was....?

no point

you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts


peace - but never give up the struggle

che

[applegrove]

119. You keep luring me back. Now there is proof but it is private. Why?

Because it is nobody's business how 200 died. You don't get to see the pictures. Did you see the subway cars? Did they blow up?

You are just yanking my chain.

[applegrove]

120. You keep luring me back. Now there is proof but it is private. Why?

Because it is nobody's business how 200 died. You don't get to see the pictures. Did you see the subway cars? Did they blow up?

You are just yanking my chain. You know there are witnesses.

[WoodrowFan]

135. more CT "untruths"

there was debris

the remains of the passangers were found

hudreds of eyewitness saw it, and dozens saw it HIT, despite to lies posted earlier.

retc
etc.

I love when the CT brigade talks about "facts", it's like listening to creationists talking about "science"/../

BYE BYE!

[Kevin Fenton]

131. How many walls?

"Don't you think the nose of an aluminum body airliner would be completely crushed and deteriorated by the time it hit the second or third huge concrete wall section? How could it possibly have just kept hammering its way through wall after wall if not for a structural design for penetrating solid objects?"

How many walls?
"The C-ring punch-out hole is frequently cited as evidence that a dense "warhead", from a missile or cruise missile, was used in the attack. According to the argument, the object that produced the hole had to travel through five masonry walls: The facade and inward-facing wall of the E-ring, two walls of the D-ring, and two walls of the C-ring. That would seem to be too much material for any component from a passenger jet to penetrate.

This argument is based on a misunderstanding of the Pentagon's design. In fact, the light wells between the C- and D-ring and D- and E-ring are only three stories deep. The first and second stories span the distance between the Pentagon's facade and the punctured C-ring wall, which faces a ground-level courtyard. There are no masonry walls in this space, only load-bearing columns. Thus it would be possible for an aircraft part that breached the facade to travel through this area on the ground floor, miss the columns, and puncture the C-ring wall withough having encountering anything more than unsubstantial gypsum walls and furniture in-between."
http://www.911review.com/errors/pentagon/punchout.html

Also, the exit hole could have been made by a shockwave.

[Kevin Fenton]

132. How big was the hole?

90 feet.
http://www.911review.com/errors/pentagon/smallhole.html
That's large enough to fit most of the plane through. The wingtips and upper section of the tail were the lightest parts and would have distintegrated on impact, as clearly happened at the WTC.

[rman]

123. The internet is not a source but a medium.

Saying "The internet will tell you just about anything."

Is like saying "Paper will tell you just about anything."


Would the website of the NYT tell you "just about anything"?

Would videos and transcripts of the 9-11 Citizens' Commission hearings (headed by McKinney) tell you "just about anything"?
http://911busters.com/911-Commission.html

[bassman79]

116. HOW NAIVE

[philb]

129. Prior warnings and evidence of complicity, from 9/11 Comm. testimony,etc.

• Given the long lead time, extensive protective systems of the Capital, and the fact that officials testified to the 9/11 Commission that Vice President Cheney and other leaders were monitoring an unknown plane approaching the Pentagon, why was the plane allowed to hit the Pentagon?
www.flcv.com/offcom77.html

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml
•
Since the Secret Service that travels with the President has extensive communications equipment and has direct connections to the FAA and NMCC, did The Secret Service and President Bush know that a hijacked plane had hit WTC1 prior to leaving for Booker School in Florida on 9/11 for a well publicized visit? And if so, why would the President and Secret Service continue the visit if it appeared the U.S. was under a terrorist attack that might target the President?
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/01_31_02_911murder_sect3.html
• Why did the President not leave Booker School immediately when he found out about the second plane hitting WTC2 given that the Secret Service knew there had been 2 terrorist attacks and the President would be a likely target also, and why didn’t the President immediately get involved in directing defenses of the U.S?
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/01_31_02_911murder_sect3.html

[KoKo]

88. Article says C-Span was there and there's a DVD available. Was this

posted anywhere else on DU? This is the first I've heard of her holding hearings. The article is vague about who attended as speakers and where she held them...says "The Capitol" but where in GA or the US Capitol.

I'm so glad she is doing this. We need to have a truly independent hearing on 9/11 and how this Administration let us down. Why did they and how could all of this have happened when there were protections in place. The farther one gets away from that awful day..the more questions that come up. Especially in light of what's been going on with the Plame Investigation.

Go Cynthia!

[Carolab]

102. Yeah, I noticed that too! So why haven't we seen it on C-Span?

This is from the 9/11 website:

The following media coverage has been confirmed: UPDATE re C-SPAN coverage:

--C-SPAN TV is taping the entire event for later rebroadcast at a later date to be announced. Please stay tuned here and the C-SPAN site.
Suggest you send in requests to the network to air the event early and often. "This briefing on the Hill convey vital information to the security and future of this nation. Please broadcast this event soon for the benefit of all Americans, particularly our representatives in D.C., Thank you."

***************

I just sent in a request. Would others do so too? Thanks.

Address I used is:

[e-mail]

[bassman79]

117. Becuase Brian Lamb is scared to death of 9/11 Truth

As he has proved countless times. Hanging up on callers, getting flustered, badmouthing people who ask questions, ignoring the issues, attacking 9/11 researchers, etc..

I'm surprised CSpan even recorded it. Of Course, when they recorded David Ray Griffin, it didn't air till like 2 months later and then at 3 in the morning. Except after Cspan got a barrage of emails they re-aired in prime time.

Interesting to see what the chickensh*ts do with this...

[KoKo]

121. Thanks for in.....I'll check it out and send a request that they air it...

:hi:

[rman]

124. Next best thing,

is the online collection of video and audio of the 9-11 Citizens' Commission hearings. That is were Cynthia got a lot of new information regarding 9-11, and many other things...

http://911busters.com/911-Commission.html

[pox americana]

122. "Islamist terrorists"

If anyone understands how sadistic criminals could get away with murder by hiding under a cloak of sanctimonious prejudice, it's her.

[MrSammo1]

139. Too bad

She's being lead around by a couple of CIA/FBI agents!

[rman]

141. For those who dwell on the physical evidence:

(those on either side of the debate), the 9-11 Citizens' Commission headed by McKinney does spend relatively little time on the physical evidence, and much time on all the other evidence, most of which has remained undiscussed in this forum.


In the words of Mike Ruppert:
"I chose to avoid discussion of physical evidence issues for two primary reasons; first, physical evidence arguments based upon photographic and other analyses are not directly court admissible without overcoming several hurdles. First, a clear and irrefutable chain of custody backed up by affidavits or sworn testimony is required to even get such evidence admitted at trial.

Secondly such evidence is by definition only presentable in court at a time presentable or identifiable in court or discussable in court by means of expert witness testimony which is often subject to intense courtroom debate and judged only by the amount of money which can be brought to bear to produce experts to either validate or refute it."

[hiley]

142. MUST SEE STREAMING VIDEO: Highlights of Historic 9/11 Briefings on Capitol

Thanks to a volunteer crew of videographers and fiscal sponsorship by
9/11 Citizenswatch the INN Report out of New York City (aired on
Freespeech TV via satellite) produced a special on the all day briefings
hosted by Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) and Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-AZ).
Streaming video of the special originally aired on Friday night is featured
now on the home page of the INN Report web site.

http://innworldreport.net/latest.html

Longer stream....

[rman]

143. finally.. thanks a million n/t

-

[petgoat]

144. Thanks but... the audio synch is lousy... disturbing.

Let me plug C-SPAN2



On Saturday, July 30 at 8:00 pm ET and Sunday, July 31 at 1:00 pm ET and Monday, August 1 at 1:15 am ET

The War on Truth: 9/11, Disinformation, and the Anatomy of Terrorism
by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed

Description: Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed outlines the relationship between the
West and radical Muslim groups like the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, the
Armed Islamic Group (GIA) in Algeria, and the Kosovo Liberation Army
(KLA) in Serbia. Mr. Ahmed says that these groups, parts of which are
now affiliated with Al Qaeda, were used by the United States and Britain
to further Western political and economic goals.

http://www.911truth.org/index.php?topic=media