US Army Major [ret} / radiation expert : Missle hit pentagon

[dbeach]

artic air.
did'nt rummy say missle hit his palace in a possible freudian moment of truth?


http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/31824.htm
Radiation Expert Claims High-Radiation Readings Near Pentagon After 9/11 Indicate Depleted Uranium Used; High-Ranking Army Officer Claims Missile Used at Pentagon, Not Commercial Airliner
Two high profile radiation experts concur Pentagon strike involved use of a missile. Also Geiger counter readings right after the attack shows high levels of radiation 12 miles away from Pentagon crash site.
August 18, 2005

By Greg Szymanski



"A radiation expert and high-ranking Army Major, who once headed the military’s depleted uranium project, both contend the Pentagon was hit by missile, not a commercial jetliner, adding high radiation readings after the strike indicate depleted uranium also may have been used.



“I’m not an explosives or crash site expert, but I am highly knowledgeable in causes and effects related to nuclear radiation contamination. What happened at the Pentagon is highly suspicious, leading me to believe a missile with a depleted uranium warhead may have been used,” said radiation expert Leuren Moret in a telephone conversation this week from her Berkeley, CA home.



Moret, who has spent a life time working in the nuclear field, first as a staff scientist at the Livermore Nuclear Weapons Laboratory in California, is now a member of The Radiation and Public Health Project (RPHP), a privately funded group studying the devastating effects of depleted uranium especially in Iraq and Afghanistan.



Regarding the missile theory, it is also backed up by retired Army Maj. Doug Rokke, a PhD educational physics and former top military expert banished from the Pentagon after the military failed to follow regulations regarding the use, clean up and medical treatment regarding the use of depleted uranium."

[MercutioATC]

1. Amazing how they make those missiles look like 757s these days....

"I’m not an explosives or crash site expert"...that's the quote from the article,

Wel, a few people who ARE crash site experts got to examine the site first-hand. This is what they had to say:


http://www.pubs.asce.org/ceonline/ceonline03/0203feat.html

[MrSammo1]

2. Really amazing

is all that missing noncombustible Jet debris? 180 plus missing seats?

Must be just one of those miracles that myth minds believe?



http://www.911busters.com/911_new_video_productions/MOV/Painful_Deceptions.html

[mirandapriestly]

3. I'm so impressed by all those formulas & diagrams

Gee, they must REALLY know what they're talking about.

[Make7]

4. A conclusive statement by an expert.

"... What happened at the Pentagon is highly suspicious, leading me to believe a missile with a depleted uranium warhead may have been used," said radiation expert Leuren Moret

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/31824.htm

With evidence like that, who needs facts?

-Make7

[dbeach]

8. Moret is an expert on DU ,Depleted Uranium,

which is a HUGE scandal waiting to happen and the DOD and VA are trying to hide a.k.a. like they hid Agent Orange for yrs and still are ambivalent on AO despite many VN Vets and Vietnamese dying of cancers...diabetes ect...

MAYBE she is a lil out there BUT Radiation is her expertise for yrs..

[Make7]

11. I agree that DU is a huge scandal.

It's been an issue since the Gulf War. And Leuren Moret may know more than anyone on the planet about DU, but I have to ask, if she is such an expert, why does she phrase her statement like this:

"...What happened at the Pentagon is highly suspicious, leading me to believe a missile with a depleted uranium warhead may have been used."

Either she knows, or she just suspects something may have happened but is not quite sure. I think her statement itself indicates the latter.

The matter needs to be investigated until an actual conclusion can be made. That someone believes something may have happened is somewhat less than convincing. (At least to me.)

-Make7

[dbeach]

19. ask her

seems like a fair question..she has many articles on different sites

[philb]

34. Des Mouslins is an engineer and has more on this at his web site

He does an analysis of the damage to the Pentagon; and indications of
radiation clean-up there.

[MercutioATC]

6. Did you read their short bios on the right side of the page?

They DO know what they're talking about.

[carlvs]

9. What do you expect?!?

This is a site that, on its "Links" page has this comment about the Populist American, a web site that makes the piece of filth known as the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" (unfortunately, their site is currently having problems {GOOD!!!,} so I can't link to the exact page right now) available as an "important document" that exposes the truth concerning "Zionists" (i.e. Jews.)

The Populist American is a site with a strong message for those who believe in smaller government, christian values, the Bill of Rights and an end to war. This site presents the message and commentary of exceptional men and women commentators

Of course this is not surprising considering that they also link to the America Free Press site, which was banned by DU because of ITS anti-Semitic tone... (though I am beginning to suspect that the CTers here have been using arcticbeacon.com to get around the ban)

[dbeach]

10. turn me in to chertoff

ya cracked the case

[earth mom]

13. How does this information have ANYTHING to do with

any other subject? I don't get your point. The truth has to come out-who gives a damn about the messenger? :eyes:

[LARED]

14. who gives a damn about the messenger?

Huh?

Are you suggesting that the message is OK as long as they agree with you about a particular issue.

If someone posted a message from the Freetards that you happen to agree with, is FreeRepublic now a good source?

If a site advocating hatred and prejudice does not make you suspect all material from that source how do you know if any information is credible?

[earth mom]

15. How do you know the information is NOT credible?

For the record, I absolutely can't stand free republic and am totally against prejudice and discrimination.

However, I don't understand the connection to this topic.

If these people-as whacked out as they are-had a proven cure for cancer would you reject that too?

And is it okay with you for the BFEE to get away with it all?

For me, that is NOT okay.

Look, we could go back and forth on this topic all day. I'd rather not, so let's just agree to disagree.

[LARED]

16. The connection is simple

Many sites that advocate the notion that the government was responsible for the 9/11 attacks also have some level of alignment with various sites and authors that are historical revisionists, Holocaust deniers, anti-Semites, etc.

Because these sites are revisionist by nature, they are viewed by many in this forum as unreliable (including the DU leadership). It's not hard to make the mental connection that a site hosting authors that are holocaust deniers maybe is attempting to revise history regarding 9/11 in an unfactual and sophisitc manner. Why do these revisionist do this, your guess is as good as mine.

Now regarding "the BFEE getting away with it all." Assuming you mean they made or let 9/11 happen, you and I are just going to disagree about that. I do not like the Bush administration and would be the first one asking to hang them if there was any actual evidence they made or let 9/11 happen.

I've been waiting three plus years to see anyone produce material evidence for this and expect I will be continue waiting a long time.

[earth mom]

18. Why look at this forum then?

:shrug:

And evidence? There's a LOT of it if you just look. Though material evidence-things like a paper trail-no doubt they got rid of all of that kind of stuff immediately if they even had it in the first place.

Catching these guys red handed is wishful thinking IMO. But it would be very nice....

However, that doesn't mean they didn't do it or didn't know it was going to happen.

There are too many unanswered questions, coincidences and b.s. for it NOT to be LIHOP or MIHOP. Even a real skeptic can see that.

[LARED]

21. I agree there are unanwered questions

But I just can't think, as you can, in this fashion.

There are too many unanswered questions, coincidences and b.s. for it NOT to be LIHOP or MIHOP. Even a real skeptic can see that.

To me the unanswered questions are focused around the intelligence failure, Coincidences are a pointless argument, as in hindsight people connect all sort of dots into what they truly believe are material relationships, (a la coincidences) but in reality they have hit upon one of potentially thousands of reasons two events may seem related but are not or they are related but the relationship is not nefarious.

I have some unrequested advice regarding "real skeptics"; that is this, skepticism real or not is not the same as knowledge.

Regards

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[philb]

5. Possible both a plane and missile hit Pentagon: and also possible

a plane with a penetration bomb with DU hit Pentagon.
There were several planes and helicopters at Pentagon and perhaps a missile as well.

Release of the Pentagon wall security videos and the videos from the
gas station and the 2 hotels would clarify what hit the Pentagon.

The excuse given to not release them is ludicrous. And reflects badly on our judicial system. Apparently we don't really have one.
Just an extension of the Administration.

[dbeach]

7. both maybe plus

maybe sauron cheny left his sewer and nuked it himself
with an RPG ,rocket propelled grenade..all in a days work for the
chikenhawk VP..
Imagine he spoke to the Purple Hearts Veterans yesterday..Talk about bamboozlin!!

[Klimmer]

12. Yep. Now this fits the evidence we do have . . .

No 757 hit the Pentagon. Can't get that massive aircraft through a 16 foot hole. And high level radiation readings just after the incident.

Whatever hit the Pentagon, most likely a bunker-buster like missile with DU and possibly a smaller aircraft, just doesn't fit the big lie the government is pushing down everyone's throat.

And yes Rummy did make the big freudian slip about a missile hitting the Pentagon. Wow, right then he spoke the truth for once.

And ladies and gentleman, this is exactly why they cleaned-out all the grounds immediately around the supposed crash site and removed the lawn and put in new material back in place and then built over this area to try to rid the entire region of DU evidence. But like I said before, I bet if someone were to sweep the area with a geiger counter you would probably still get a slightly higher reading than normal background levels. It is very hard to erase all the evidence of incinerated and air-born DU. DU is nasty stuff as the Iraq veterans and Iraqi civilians are finding out. But as DR. Moret says it effects the entire world. God these Neo-cons are evil.

This scenario fits all the "real" evidence.

[petgoat]

17. Szymanski Has So Much Explosive and Unique Stuff

I can't help but be skeptical. He seems too good to be true. I'd sure
like to believe it, which is what makes me hesitate.

Re: Mercutio #1, and the ASCE report. What stood out for me on the
first skim was that the damage to the face of the building is not
consitent with a 757. Because the right wingtip never hit the wall,
they have to suppose it broke off when the plane hit a generator.
The lack of left side damage requires that they suppose the left wing
hit the ground.

Second: look at the picture about half way down, the one next to "B".
The cable reels. How come the jet exhaust didn't roll them into the
next county?

Re: Make7 #11 "That someone believes something may have happened is
somewhat less than convincing. (At least to me.)"

A scientific disclaimer is MORE convincing to me than someone's
fervent belief. She measured radiation. It's consistent with a
missile. Maybe the Pentagon had DU stored in the basement. Maybe
there was a secret cargo of DU on the plane. Maybe somebody salted
the area with DU. There could be many explanations, and it's only
good science to frame the statement in a way that keeps the issue
open.

Re: philb #5 "Release of the Pentagon wall security videos and the
videos from the gas station and the 2 hotels would clarify what hit
the Pentagon."

Don't you think that anything released four years after the fact would
be of questionable authenticity?

[dbeach]

20. govt is still holding evidence back

on JFK and recenrly released evidence about the Pearl harbor attacks
govt denied AO for yrs then has a change of mind..its up to the citizens to pressure govt to release more info

"Don't you think that anything released four years after the fact would
be of questionable authenticity?"

my answer is no ..particulalry as bushco continues down the path of more wars and more tax breaks for his pals and less rts for the commoners.

Do like most of your pts

[Make7]

22. They are also hiding evidence of extra-terrestrial beings.

'Tall Whites' Living Among Us in Nevada Under Military Cover

Former serviceman recounts incredible story about 'out of this world' encounters
February 5, 2005

By Greg Szymanski

.....

Some stand more than 8 feet tall, run 40 mph and live 800 years. They speak like a dog barking or a bird chirping, write similar to Egyptian hieroglyphics and have learned English quite easily.

They have large blue eyes that wrap part way around their heads, small noses and tiny ears pressed tight to their scalps. Their thumbs are small with four long slender fingers and two claw-like appendages instead of fingernails.

They all have thin, straight blond hair, usually worn short and the women can be distinguished by a feminine looking short cut. Their hips are shaped liked ours, but they walk quite differently since they are used to a stronger gravity pull.

They typically can be seen wearing aluminized chalk white jump suits resembling a canvas-like fabric with gloves of the same material and an open white motorcycle helmet.

.....

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/20949.htm

:) Make7

[dbeach]

23. is that how bush did 9/11?

reptoids eat loosh

[Make7]

24. Given the author and web host of that article, I found it informative. n/t

[dbeach]

25. what is real?

truth is first casualty in war and bush declared war on the middle class that he despises and on all FREEDOM lovers!

I doubt if he leaves office peacefully.

CS says we are the 4th branch of GOVT the Citizen grand Jury

Silence is deadly!

[Kevin Fenton]

27. Various

I agree about Szymanski - he certainly doesn't seem to be a good, honest reporter to me and I think JR is of the same opinion.

As far as the wing damage is concerned, the damage field caused by the left wing was longer than that caused by the right, so the imprint on the Pentagon does not match that of any plane (or missile), unless you know one with one wing longer than the other. Also, the generator does seem to have been hit by the right wing.

Given that I don't think it was a missile, I don't think the DU was caused by what hit the Pentagon, although I'm not yet able to give a more specific answer as to why the radiation levels have increased (assuming they actually have increased). However, I would point out that there is a contradiction in the revisionists' arguments here. It's impossible to argue both that (1) it was a DU missile and (2) it was designed to kill the minimum number of people. My understanding is that DU missiles are really nasty and harm lots of people over a long period of time, so I guess they'd be really bad for the people who work at the Pentagon, including Rummy.

I can see why you say the delay discredits the videos, but I doubt it takes long to fake a video and I'd still love to see them.

[petgoat]

28. DU missiles are really nasty/ love to see the video

AFAIK the official military position is that DU is harmless. I too
would like to see the video, but even though I'm inclined to believe the
simple story of a 757, I would not assume that a video showing it was
genuine.

[rman]

29. Using DU does not make it a nuclear weapon

"harm lots of people over a long period of time" would only be the case if people stay in the contaminate area for a long time - which is a side effect rather then deliberate (although known) effect. Long term negative effects on health are the result of breathing DU dust over a long period of time.

The point of using DU is that it gives the weapon better penetration, as one would want with bunker-buster type weapons. With bunker-busters it is the secondary payload that normally does most of the damage once the weapon is inside. That payload can be designed to do a specific kind and specific amount of damage.

[dbeach]

30. DU harmed the PG Vets

after leaving war zone in 1991..That is directly from VA doctors and from one who was actually in PG..One vet was very sick and his kids got sick when they played with some of his clothes that were contaminated..this info is from the US Army MD who served in PG and it was shared at a conference of health care professioanlas in 1999

so DU can cause immediate harm..in addition to delayed effects..

Agent Orange was similar in that some got sick immediately with rashes ect.. then yrs later developed cancers.
.DOD and VA have been known to mistate facts to protect the problems

BTW one MD was rpelaced by VA for being overly invested in helping her PG vets.

Been Vets advocate for many yrs..

[rman]

37. If the intention was to kill a lot of people

at the Pentagon, there are more effective ways then using DU. If otoh the point was to do a lot of damage to a specific section of the building, then a bunker-buster type weapon is quite effective.

Your anecdote about the effects of DU is a bit ambiguous; kids got sick "when" they played with contaminated clothes - does that mean they got sick *while* they were playing with the clothes? If so, then isn't it odd that some victims get sick some time after exposure, while other get sick immediately upon exposure. Or is it that the kids got sick some time after playing with the clothes?

[dbeach]

38. kids got sick soon

after playing with the contaminated clothes..it was his army shirt.
this is from the MD who was reserve officer and it was a 1999 speech he made..BTW he was no liberal just searching for clues about the PG illness...funny many are reporting medical problems who were at WTC site..Is that also DU?
Yes there are more effective ways..BUT Pentagon is on the cheap so they use DU missles..

I dunno!! I am spinin like the rest..

but I do know VA has big problems with these PG Vets who are very sick..and as I stated the DOD and VA have been known to stop, block and prevent the Truths

[rman]

39. DU at WTC site - that's pure speculation

Whistleblower Indira Singh has a thing or two to say about WTC illness, and it doesn't look like DU is involved.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=344x4

[dbeach]

40. PURE

speculation may be a bit overstated
9/11 forum has mentioned WTC with possible DU B 4 so its not new to this partcualar forum..

this is the age of disinfo where your facts are better than mine ..vice versa..
and as I say the Vets got scik .WHY?? they cannot figure it out..Is it DU or some other cause??

somebody may know ??

[rman]

41. There's no doubt vets got sick

in recent wars, probably due to cocktails of medicines and/or DU.

But i think there can be little doubt that anything other then large planes crashed into the WTC towers. What would be the purpose of using DU there? There was enough other stuff to make a lot of people very sick.
Indira Singh was a rescue worker at the WTC, she got very sick herself, her apartment was across the street from the WTC complex. The dust was everywhere for a long time. She underwent detox which probably saved her, though her health still isn't entirely back to normal. Also she has good connections and she is a very investigative person. I'm pretty sure that if DU was involved at the WTC, she would have found out.


Sibel Edmonds and other Whistleblowers Group
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=344

[dbeach]

42. Army Maj. Doug Rokke

also very sick.he thinks from PG War in 1991

missles ?? hit pentagon WTC???

DUNNO just thinking aloud and waiting for a MIRACLE

[hack89]

31. If the radiation was detected 12 miles from the crash site..

then it should still be detectable - why hasn't Moret done any follow up testing? To clean up such a mess so as to leave no traces would require a massive decontamination effort - is there any evidence that such a clean up was done?

[dbeach]

32. good question

why not ask her..she must have an email address or something

too many unanswered questions ..meanwhile the bushco mean machine is plannin a national review of Vets bennies to cut some out and who knows what about Iran??

[philb]

33. Why do you say the level would still be high?

I believe the article said that it was twice normal(measuring air level) at first and lower over time.

But there was also evidence of radiation clean-up at the Pentagon.

[hack89]

35. Was there a clean up 12 miles away?

Remarkably short half-life for uranium - or am I missing something? I thought the problem with DU was that it was toxic for a very long time - that would imply that it was detectable for a long time. I also thought that one of the problems with DU was that when it burned it created a very fine dust - surely this dust would travel for some distance (at least 12 miles), settle and be detectable for a long time?

What evidence of a radiation clean up do you have?

Just some questions.

[dbeach]

36. can't answrer ya

and I would like to hear more from her about the radaition near the pentagon..she has many articles on different sites..this Artic place was easy so I put it out there...

DU can be spread by the desert winds so it can go all over the world..AND ITS BEEN FOUND ON TOP OF CARS IN bRITAIN..

Larger issues :is the pentagon exposing the troops and the civilians to deadly DU? who benefitted/ and why not use less lethal ammo ?
I mean ammo is lethal but something that is not DU..Du being very new in pentagon arsenal

http://mvn.net/syzygy/planet/0091-MP-2005-06-27_Monday.html

"Leuren Moret is a geoscientist who works almost around the clock educating citizens, the media, members of parliaments and Congress and other officials on radiation issues. She became a whistleblower in 1991 at the Livermore Nuclear Weapons Lab after witnessing fraud on the Yucca Mountain Project. She is currently working as an independent citizen scientist and radiation specialist in communities around the world, and contributed to the U.N. subcommission investigating depleted uranium. According to Wikipedia online encyclopedia, Moret testified at the International Criminal Tribunal for Afghanistan in Japan in 2003, presented at the World Depleted Uranium Weapons Conference in Hamburg, Germany, and spoke at the World Court of Women at the World Social Forum in Bombay, India, in January 2004.


THE INTERVIEW


ICONOCLAST: What are the latest developments with reducing depleted uranium exposures on U.S. troops?


MORET: A young veteran named Melissa Sterry of Connecticut has introduced a bill into the Connecticut Legislature requiring independent testing of returning Afghan and Gulf War veterans going back to 2001. She said that she did it because she’s sick, and her friends are dead, and that’s from serving in the 2003 conflict. I have been following the bill and talking to her. Yesterday, she testified twice at the United Nations. I said, “Why don’t we get this bill all over the U.S. in state legislatures because it informs the public and get the local media to cover it.”
The U.S. has blocked any accountability at international and national levels. There’s a total cover-up just like with Agent Orange, the atomic veterans, MKULTRA, the mind control experiments the CIA did. This is more of the same, but the issue is much, much worse because the genetic future of all those contaminated is effected. Now vast regions around our world, as well as our atmosphere, are contaminated with the depleted uranium. They’ve used so much. It’s the equivalent number of atoms, as the Japanese professor calculated it, to over 400,000 Nagasaki bombs that has been released into the atmosphere. That’s really an underestimate. "