Village Voice covers 9/11 Protests

[delver]

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0537,fergusonweb2,67726,2.html


The alt.truth crowd takes its message to the memorial service, ‘The New York Times’, and a great big punk concert
by Sarah Ferguson
September 12th, 2005 11:05 AM






Preaching to the uncoverted at Ground Zero.
photo: Sarah Ferguson
The anguish was palpable at Ground Zero yesterday, as family members made their way down a long ramp into the vast emptiness of the World Trade Center site, then took turns reading out the names of their lost loved ones.

"We love you, Georgie. We'll see you soon," pledged the parents of a fallen firefighter, their sad voices broadcast to the crowds of grieving onlookers milling quietly around the perimeter.

Into this somber setting marched about a dozen 9-11 conspiracists, who claimed a patch of sidewalk to preach what they called the truth. "These people weren't killed by Arab terrorists. You've been lied to!" shouted a woman who looked vaguely like Joey Ramone, holding up one end of a banner that read, "9-11 World Trade Center: Controlled Demolition."

....

[pauldp]

1. Sounds pretty much as I expected.

Wing TV's protest made the 911 truth movement look like a bunch of callous wack-jobs.
Still can't decide if they are disinfo or just incredibly stupid.

The 911truth.org protest sounded more level headed and well presented but unfortunately not well supported, and the punk concert - they don't do anything for mainstream awareness but you gotta love those punks!

It's a start but we still go a looooong way to go.

[spooked911]

3. yes, it is much more effective to have no media coverage when you protest!

And heaven forbid you offend anyone. No, we wouldn't want that.

[pauldp]

4. OK let me clarify.

I'm sure Spooked that you are well aware of the concerns many people have with the tactics of the folks at Wing TV.

The Building 7 footage was what got me to consider MIHOP in the first place but as you well know there are many other valid issues. Wing TV's myopic focus on demolition and their baffling dismissal of things like the ISI connection as well as their derision of most everyone else in the movement has led me and many others to question their tactics if not their motives. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe screaming "Controlled Demolition" at victims families is an appropriate tactic, if it ends up being effective I'll gladly eat my pound of crow, but the piece in the Voice does not do much to mitigate my concerns about Wing TV's approach.

As far as offending people. You can't bring up 911 truth without offending someone, so that cannot be helped. However, the ultimate goal should be awareness not offense and I just don't think this movement has figured out the best way to do that yet.

As I said it's a start. I'm glad all those events took place yesterday, but we need to figure out some alternative approaches if we want to be taken more seriously.

[spooked911]

5. I understand what you're saying

I'm not a big fan of WingTV and I certainly don't think screaming about controlled demoliton is very effective-- but I think holding up a big sign works okay.

I think ground zero was a much better place for a protest than Times Square.

Mr. Sammo 1 seems to have had some success interacting with people at ground zero yesterday.

[HughBeaumont]

18. I'm definitely NOT a fan of WingTV

Especially their dismissal of the more reasonable arguments.

A lot of people at my work who are foreign-born, and are NOT conspiracy people in the least, believe the US government had a hand in 9/11. Since they're financial analysts, they saw the high volume of trading a week prior; Morgan Stanley is a client, as is Cantor. They saw the volume of puts rise dramatically. That's but one example.

[pauldp]

19. You raise some good points

If we follow the money -the put options, the ISI connections etc. and listen to the whistle blowers we will get to the bottom of this.

If we keep pounding ours heads against the wall like WingTV, trying convince everyone of controlled demolition - something on which the government has spent tens of millions building the case against - will will get more scorn and dischord.

Your point about the foreign workers is good. Foreigners are not confronted with the same type of cognitive dissonance when considering the possibility of US government factions committing mass murder. Many of them see it as a distinct possibility.

[MrSammo1]

2. yeah!!!

but they aren't telling the whole story!

People know the truth!

>>>At one point, an auxiliary fireman stepped forward and tried to reason with the protesters to "respect the memorial sentiment."

"Believe me, I have questions too," he told the protesters. "But you've got to respect the dead. These people are not ready for this. You're just creating resentment."<<<

this guy was a government shill (like some many in here are)

I put this guy in his place!

He was calling us CIA!

The more he talked his lies.......the more people came to take flyers and videos. The Village Voice was there and heard what he said.

I told the people, "Here I am pointing out to you that we have no proof that jets crashed at the Pentagon and in Shanksville......and this guy is calling me CIA!" "Is he making any sense?"

People were nodding and saying.....we know! So many people were stopping and asking questions. So much info was shared.

[vincent_vega_lives]

7. Government shill reporting for duty!

:patriot:

[MrSammo1]

24. Goverment shills

don't expose the truth.

They hide it!

[vincent_vega_lives]

6. Lisa Giuliani

She lectured about how only a series of controlled explosions could have so rapidly pancaked the twin towers. "There's no way jet fuel could have melted all that steel. It was a freefall. The concrete was so thoroughly pulverized, Manhattan was blanketed in dust. Think about it," she urged. "Do your homework, please!"

WOW is she ever a graduate of the school of DU science! She certainly did her homework and got all her DU buzzwords!

When the Voice writes a negative story...

But this time, the police seemed virtually nonexistent as Choking Victims' myriad fans sang along to lyrics like "Kill the cops," "Fuck America," and "Fuck world trade."

Sounds like a good PR job. :eyes:

[LARED]

8. Sickening

After reading the whole article I want to go wash my hands.

:puke::puke:

Lets summarize

12 wackos at ground zero that if not for the decency of most people would have had the crap beat out of them for dishonouring the dead.

200 passionate folks standing in front of the NYT's with not even a reporter poking their head out to see what the noise was.

and then you have 2000 teenage moron drunks and drugged punks listening to something that most people consider incoherent and loud noise in very bad taste, that is nicely summed up with this comment.

"The only thing left is drinking, drugs, and suicide."

Yeah, the so called movement is doing well.

[Henny Penny]

9. The important thing is LARED...

the people at the village voice got out the message...

"PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB ARE INSENSITIVE NUT JOBS THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO LISTEN TO!"

and people like you can continue to "puke" at the thought of "INSENSITIVE NUT JOBS" rather than start to worry your pretty, little heads about the state of the country.

[vincent_vega_lives]

10. Which country is that?

Oh I think we can still be disgusted by "INSENSITIVE NUT JOBS" and worry my pretty little head about the state of the country...all at the same time.

:beer:

[spooked911]

22. so what exactly have you done about the "state of the country"?

besides post things here (and drink beer)?

[LARED]

11. I agree

that message is important to get out.

In regards to your concern about the state of the country; Bush is a lame duck. Historically no matter what idiot manages to get into the WH, the country survives. The president does not define the country, it's people do.

[StrafingMoose]

15. The people as in ... ?

blame the "people", blame the "system" and then "fix" the "problems" simply by injecting more taxpayers' money ("people") in the "system" ?

[LARED]

16. Well, history tells me

politicians have been using this ploy

blame the "people", blame the "system" and then "fix" the "problems" simply by injecting more taxpayers' money ("people") in the "system" ?

to some extent since recorded history started. If we people of the USA allow that to continue unabated, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

[StrafingMoose]

17. I agree..

"If we people of the USA allow that to continue unabated, we have no one to blame but ourselves"

I just wonder what would happen if the Democrats and Republicans (since they both used the ploy we're talking about) would get dumped for the next elections...

[pauldp]

12. The other important thing

is that the WingTV people have succeeded - as many of us feared they would - in helping to paint everyone concerned about the 911 coverup as wack jobs. Pure Poison. You really gotta wonder about their motives. At least The Voice was able to differentiate between them and the march at the NYT.

As far as the Punk concert goes - at least it was a real punk concert, not a bunch of MTV pretty boys with punk hair cuts singing love songs. Punk Rock has always been loud, offensive and if it's good Punk it's politically radical. Most of the kids at that show were probably from the burbs and sick of having flags waved in their faces while they are being lied to about the war on terrorism. Punks will be Punks.

[spooked911]

20. whoever says the US government was behind 9/11 is going to be painted as

a wackjob anyway. I'm not sure what decourm gets you when you are protesting.

Frankly, after further consideration, I think making an loud and obvious protest about the towers being blown up is a GOOD THING.

Unlike some of the other subtleties about 9/11 that can be easily waved aside, evidence for demolition of the towers is fairly clear and more and more people are understanding this.

The demolition of the towers was such a central event of 9/11 and telling people about it immediately presents people with a huge paradigm shift.

I would bet that the WingTV protest on 9/11/05 at ground zero led to more people questioning 9/11 than the march from the NYTimes to the UN. Sure, WingTV may have turned some people off, but I bet overall they helped the movement.

[pauldp]

27. I hope your right, but I still have serious concerns about WingTV n/t

[Christophera]

30. It Called Emotional Reasoning And It's Dangerous. We Lose Everything.

Americans have been taught to believe that emotional reasoning is okay because the government encourages in it. They do this while failing to do logical reasoning in the courts while also failing to follow laws.

The infiltrators of our government are counting on us to continue emotional reasoning in order to take all that they possible can. It keeps us from unifying in any meaningful way.

[spooked911]

23. Actually, the NYFD and the NYPD are on WingTVs side

they admitted that 9/11 was an inside job:
http://www.wingtv.net/thornarticles/paulisaac.html

As much as I hate to break it to you.

;)


Fireman Admits Again: 9-11 Inside Job
by Victor Thorn
 
 
On the morning of September 11, 2005, New York City auxiliary fire lieutenant Paul Isaac, Jr. admitted yet again that 9-11 was an inside job. In fact, here is his exact quote to Lisa Guliani and myself: “I know 9-11 was an inside job, the police know it’s an inside job, and the firemen know it too.”
Think about the ramifications of this statement. One of New York’s own firefighters revealed publicly that 9-11 wasn’t the work of Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, but instead was planned, coordinated, and executed by elements within our own government. Isaacs also added, after pointing to throngs of police officers standing around us, that, “We all have to be very careful about how we handle it.”
Preeminent researcher Jim Marrs (Inside Job: Unmasking the 9/11 Conspiracies) also quotes author Randy Lavello, who wrote the following about Paul Isaac, Jr.: “New York firemen were very upset by what they considered a cover-up in the WTC destruction. Many other firemen knew there were bombs in the buildings,’ he said, ‘but they are afraid for their jobs to admit it because the higher-ups forbid discussion of this fact.’ Isaac, who was stationed at Engine 10 near the WTC in the late 1990s, said the higher-ups included the NYFD’s antiterrorism consultant, James Woolsey, a former CIA director. ‘There were definitely bombs in those buildings,’ Isaac added.”

[LARED]

26. Actually it sound like one guy has been

buffaloed or lead around by Victor Thorn, master of historical revisionism for a $ or maybe he found a few guys that actually think it was an inside job.

BTW, assuming the quotes are true, they said "inside job" not government job. They could easily have meant they believe bomb were planted by the attackers.

[Dancing_Dave]

13. The Village Voice sure ain't what it used to be!

The Voice I used to know and love back in the day would have been in the lead with investigations and support for a truth movement in New York.

But it's good that some reporter there at least recognized what's going on in spite of them.

The punk concert turnout showed that at least 911 truth is part of a growing international counterculture which includes hip young people in New York.

The tide is turning.

[spooked911]

21. Yes, it is sad that the Village Voice has become so politically correct--

Sell-outs.

[Informed Citizen]

14. WingTV succeeded.

The WingTV operation on 9/11/05 appears to have been a success. They disrupted the 9/11 rememberance ceremony drawing negative attention to the movement. They promoted highly speculative evidence drawing attention away from the primary evidence upon which the 9/11 inquiry is founded. They captivated the media's attention by manipulating its willingness to stigmatize this movement as 'conspiracists', with their 'we don't care what anyone else thinks' tattered banner, and uncompromising attitude. They showed up at the 911Truth rally with Nico Haupt, taking advantage of ny911truth's
willingness to maintain decorum, in order to falsely establish their association with the group. And they intentionally frustrated
individuals in order to draw them into a conflict that would serve to undermine the peaceful nature of this inquiry.

Does any of this sound familiar? How about 'infiltrate to undermine' 101.

- I.C.

[MrSammo1]

25. There are a lot of people

in the Truth movement that agree with WingTV. If anything.....we sent the press to cover what was going on at the UN. The press didn't know! Damn...may of the members in the truth movement didn't know!

So the truth movement got the press that Kyle "pied piper" Hence and Company didn't want to happen!

[Informed Citizen]

31. People who are confused

While I respect your democratic attitude, WingTV's behavior surrounding the events this 9/11/05 were personally upsetting, socially divisive, crude, unprofessional, and on the whole just simply looked like an organized attemt to undermine the efforts of others. I know little about them other than their recent behavior, but that has been so telling, and can not be ignored.

- I.C.

[delver]

28. feedback to the Voice

Here's my note to the Village Voice concerning this article:


----------------------------
Thank you for covering the 9/11 Truth Movement ("9-11 Conspiracists Invade Ground Zero" by Sarah Ferguson). However I do have a few suggestions:

The World Trade Center owner is LARRY Silverstein, not KEN Silverstein.

Also, I was on the march and never heard anyone chanting "Remember New Orleans!" One of our main chants was, "Hey Hey, Ho Ho, Bin Laden was trained by the CIA"

Sarah Ferguson writes "...why World Trade Center owner Ken Silverstein implied that that WTC building 7 was "pulled"—a reported comment which leads conspiracists to presume that the other towers could have been intentionally taken down, too."

That is a leap of logic. What about just focusing on Building 7 first? And the "pull it" comment is not "reported" it is documented in the PBS documentary "America Rebuilds."
http://www.pbs.org/americarebuilds/

Here is the exact quote:

"I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it." And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."

If the Voice would like to do some real journalism, why don't you guys track down Larry Silvertein and make him explain what this meant? Why don't you interview some construction or demolition experts and ask them what "pull" means? Why don't you start asking some independent structural engineers for their opinion on the plausibility of such a spontaneous global collapse of a steel-frame building?

Check out these old NYT articles for a few clues:

http://www.geocities.com/streakingobject/07NYTimes7WTCwhy.html
(ignore the crap at the bottom of this page)

Please report accurately. Please follow the questions. Please do your job. I understand there may be pressure not to cover this issue, from either outside or within your paper. But we must face these questions.

[DemonFighterLives]

29. All in all it was good to read the coverage

Some of the wording was not the best, but where else should such a protest take place. The people that died on 9/11 went instantly to heaven or hell as the case may be. It is a sacred ground, but trying to get answers is not disrespecting the dead.
The peaceful movement couldn't even get a reporter to look out, while the "disruptors" turned some heads.
Some of the punkers phrases made me cringe, but that is the nature of Punk I guess.

[JackRiddler]

32. (PLUS: A RESPONSE TO VILLAGE VOICE/SARAH FERGUSON)

This is late given the other massive threads already running, but it just shows you that the righteous are the slow - or is it the unpaid?

MANY PHOTOS, VIDEO, STATEMENTS, DEMANDS, MEDIA COVERAGE LINKS, ETC. ETC.

FROM THE SUNDAY 9/11 2005 RALLY AND MARCH IN NEW YORK CITY:

"Should we rejoice, because it was the largest march for 9/11 truth in history?

"Or should we despair, because it took four years before 300 people rallied on the streets of New York City to confront the US government and the corporate media for their lies about September 11th, 2001?

"In the most moving speech of the day, Donna Marsh O'Connor, mother of Vanessa Lang Langer (who died at WTC Tower II) defined the task ahead for the 9/11 truth movement with a simple question..."

http://summeroftruth.org/09-11-2005.html

[PerpetualYnquisitive]

33. Not the Ground Zero protest but....

Mrs. Clinton concluded her remarks yesterday by saying, "We are better than this," and lamenting the "disgraceful treatment of the people left behind in the Gulf Coast." While departing the event, she was asked to "endorse" a sign held by a demonstrator blaming President Bush for the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the Iraq war, and the devastation wrought by Katrina. Mrs. Clinton autographed the poster.
http://www.nysun.com/article/20307

Very last paragraph of the article.