An explanation for the "foreplay" explosions in the WTC twin towers

[spooked911]

Lots of people heard and felt bombs (explosions) go off in the twin towers before they were demolished. This has been documented extensively here.

The question is-- why would anyone who wanted to blow up the buildings make a few bombs go off before the main demolition?

What would be the purpose of this?

Here is the most likely explanation: the bombs went by accident from the fires that were coursing through the building.

There were probably a few hundred pre-set bombs throughout the building, and some of them went off randomly whenever they got heated up too much by a nearby fire.

The explosions in the basement, for instance, could have been from burning jet fuel going down the elevator shaft and setting off pre-set explosives in the basement.

[Kevin Fenton]

1. Foreplay

First of all, I haven't rejected the possibility that the foreplay explosions weren't really bomb-related at all.

"There were probably a few hundred pre-set bombs throughout the building, and some of them went off randomly whenever they got heated up too much by a nearby fire."
If they were placed there specifically to bring the towers down after they were hit by a plane, then they should not go off "randomly". I'm sure there must be some sort of special explosives (C4?) that are stable even in extreme conditions. Also, why would bombs a long way from the fire zone go off prematurely?
If there were foreplay explosions, this is yet another reason to think that the bombers got it wrong in several ways.

"The explosions in the basement, for instance, could have been from burning jet fuel going down the elevator shaft and setting off pre-set explosives in the basement."
Indeed, the explosions in the basement could have been the burning jet fuel going down the elevator shaft and bursting out of it.

[spooked911]

2. Why would kerosene/jet fuel act like a bomb?

I'm not clear on how burning jet fuel going down an elevator shaft would act like an explosion, and more importantly, how would would this burning jet fuel destroy parts of the basement?

Apart from 9/11, is there any evidence that burning jet fuel is so incredibly explosive?

In fact, the videos of the WTC1, WTC2 and Pentagon hits show massive bomb-like explosions. Are these events simply from jet fuel?

Certainly the fact that some explosives are more stable to heat is irrelevant, since we don't know what explosives were used in the towers.

[Kevin Fenton]

4. Jet fuel

"I'm not clear on how burning jet fuel going down an elevator shaft would act like an explosion, and more importantly, how would would this burning jet fuel destroy parts of the basement?"
It goes down the shaft and then ignites into a fireball. This could be confused with a "bomb" explosion. Don't know if the scope of damage in the basement is consistent with this though.

"In fact, the videos of the WTC1, WTC2 and Pentagon hits show massive bomb-like explosions. Are these events simply from jet fuel?"
They do not. There is no video of the Pentagon hit. The WTC videos show fairly ordinary jet fuel fireballs.

"Certainly the fact that some explosives are more stable to heat is irrelevant, since we don't know what explosives were used in the towers."
It is highly relevant. I am undecided on whether there were any foreplay explosions. If you think there were foreplay explosions due to heat from the fires (or something else) then you should really give an account of why poor quality explosives were used (along with all the other errors in the demolition). How come the bombers were so incompetent?

[philb]

3. What elevator shaft? Elevators didn't go from basement to plane level

The lower elevators went up to about floor 47; then a set went up to about 78; another set went up to the plane level

The explosion in the basement wiped out the huge foundation supports.
Gas explosion couldn't do that. I think you need to read some threads where this has been dealt with.

LIEUTENANT JAMES WALSH FDNY
WTC1 elevators
WHAT ELSE OBSERVED IN THE LOBBY WAS THAT THERES BASICALLY TWO AREAS OF ELEVATORS. THERES ELEVATORS OFF TO THE LEFT HAND SIDE WHICH ARE REALLY THE EXPRESS ELEVATORS THAT WOULD BE THE ELEVATORS THATS FACING NORTH. THEN ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE THERES ALSO ELEVATORS THAT ARE EXPRESS ELEVATORS AND THAT WOULD BE FACING SOUTH. AND YOU COULD SEE THE SHAFTS of THE ELEVATORS ON THE EXTREME NORTH SIDE AND THE OTHER EXPRESS ELEVATOR ON THE EXTREME SOUTH SIDE. THEY LOOKED INTACT TO ME FROM WHAT COULD SEE THE DOORS ANYWAY.

IN THE CENTER OF THESE TWO ELEVATOR SHAFTS WOULD BE ELEVATORS THAT GO TO THE LOWER FLOORS. THEY WERE BLOWN OFF THE HINGES. THAT’S WHERE THE SERVICE ELEVATOR WAS ALSO. Q. WERE THESE ELEVATORS THAT WENT TO THE UPPER FLOORS? THEY WERENT SIDE LOBBY ELEVATORS.
NO ID SAY THAT THEY WENT THROUGH FLOORS 30 AND BELOW, AND THEY WERE BLOWN OFF THE HINGES.


note that there were explosions on floors 23 and 24 where the Port Authority offices were. What could have caused those explosions?
no elevators went to plane level.

Also there were explosions in the basement; wiped out huge concrete foundation supports

[philb]

6. Skylobby on 78th floor

Marissa Panigrosso: WTC2 survivor
We went out to 78th floor and into elevator. They were all standing in the skylobby. They were talking. That is when they made the announcement. It said the building is secure, don't evacuate.

[pox americana]

5. My guess is that to produce the illusion of "collapse"

they had to make sure each building fell completely once it started, and to do that, they had to make sure the core columns were sufficiently compromised to allow the buildings to be blown apart in just a few seconds.

So they started the initial detonations as soon as the planes hit and kept taking out columns until the grand finale.

[spooked911]

11. Yeah, that makes sense as well.

[philb]

7. N.Y. Firemen statements : WTC1 lobby- early and late- re: bombs in basemen

N.Y. Firemen Public Statements released after FOlA suit by NYTimes
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/nyregion/nyregionspecial3/

CAPTAIN JOHN KEVIN CULLEY lobby of WTC1 before 2nd plane hit

In the lobby of tower 1, all the usual people, the 1st Division, 1st Battalion, reporting in units, I can't remember specifically, the Fire Safety Director, who I recognized, FBI agents, people on the staff, building staff, particularly people that were involved with helping us read the elevator panels.

Q. Can you describe what you visually were seeing around, like outside or on the concourse? A. On the concourse? I don't remember on the concourse. In the lobby? As I said, the usual people that would show up. Q. Was there a lot of debris falling at the time?
Once the plane hit, there was no debris, or it fell. What we did have coming out of the building were people. Also, I'd note that, once I arrived at the fire command station, I was told by someone who had actually witnessed the plane hitting it that it was indeed a plane

FIREFIGHTER DANIEL STERLING WTC1 lobby windows vented:

WHEN WE MADE IT INTO THE LOBBY THERE WAS DEBRIS FALLING FROM THE BUILDING GUYS WERE TRYING TO VENT THOSE BIG WINDOWS IN THE LOBBY

LIEUTENANT JAMES WALSH FDNY
WTC1 elevators
WHAT ELSE OBSERVED IN THE LOBBY WAS THAT THERES BASICALLY TWO AREAS OF ELEVATORS. THERES ELEVATORS OFF TO THE LEFT HAND SIDE WHICH ARE REALLY THE EXPRESS ELEVATORS THAT WOULD BE THE ELEVATORS THATS FACING NORTH. THEN ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE THERES ALSO ELEVATORS THAT ARE EXPRESS ELEVATORS AND THAT WOULD BE FACING SOUTH. AND YOU COULD SEE THE SHAFTS of THE ELEVATORS ON THE EXTREME NORTH SIDE AND THE OTHER EXPRESS ELEVATOR ON THE EXTREME SOUTH SIDE. THEY LOOKED INTACT TO ME FROM WHAT COULD SEE THE DOORS ANYWAY.

IN THE CENTER OF THESE TWO ELEVATOR SHAFTS WOULD BE ELEVATORS THAT GO TO THE LOWER FLOORS. THEY WERE BLOWN OFF THE HINGES. THAT’S WHERE THE SERVICE ELEVATOR WAS ALSO. Q. WERE THESE ELEVATORS THAT WENT TO THE UPPER FLOORS? THEY WERENT SIDE LOBBY ELEVATORS.
NO ID SAY THAT THEY WENT THROUGH FLOORS 30 AND BELOW, AND THEY WERE BLOWN OFF THE HINGES.

Michael Beehler,

We made it down to Vesey and on to West Street, walking into the northwest corner of the north tower. They had a mini command post set up. Lieutenant Mera came over. He said come on, we are going up to the 21 floor. There are reports of people trapped there. There was a bank of elevators there that were still in service, so we took that up to, I believe the 15 or 16th floor.

Brian Becker, FDNY Engine 28, Group 22.

So we moved into 1 World Trade Center from that northern pedestrian overpass, from underneath that , so we took t h e shortest route , and I think we just went in a window. I think the glass was blown out there. …


FIREFIGHTER PAUL HYLAND elevators working in WTC1

We went in, busted through one of the windows, opened up, made like a door. The maintenance guy said I think the elevators are working, or it was the Chief said it. The Chief went around and says take a look at some of the elevators. I think we had a
maintenance guy with us at the time. He said these low-rise are working, it will get you up to 16. So we went up to 16, which was great because, walking 16 flights, we wouldn't be able to operate. ...

LIEUTENANT WAYNE MERA FDNY elevators working at WTC1
WCT1
We were walking up Vesey and we saw parts of the plane on the ground still burning. So we turn down onto West Street and get to the north tower. We entered the north tower and reported to Chief Picciotto. He said we've got a report of people trapped on the 21st floor. So that's where we ended up going. We took the low-rise bank of elevators up to the 16th floor.



Brian Becker, FDNY Engine 28, Group 22
The Chief said "Everybody, we are -- all Fire Department personnel are out of the building. We are getting out. Q. Did you have an idea what time you guys started to descend down? A. I would say it was like one minute after the first building collapsed, the first collapse of the other building . Q. So five after ten then? A. Yes.

When we got to the lobby, there was total devastation then . When we went in , it was blasted apart , and there was broken glass everywhere. All the windows were out, we were in the northwest corner of the building, so we were diagonally separated a hundred percent from the first collapsed building. We were on the opposite corner -- we were the most sheltered part.

FIREFIGHTER PAUL HYLAND
Then someone gave a Mayday to get out of the building. So it took us quite a bit of time to hit the lobby and it was just destroyed. I mean, it looked like -- it wasn't the same lobby 15 minutes ago. It was just completely gone, every window was shattered, all the ceiling tile, the elevator banks had let go it seemed, the floor was all crushed down.


FIREFIGHTER HUGH METTHAM

WTC1
THE SCENE IN THE LOBBY NOW IS COMPLETE CHAOS SMALL FIRES AND SMOKE RISE FROM ONE AREA MARBLE SECTIONS THAT LINE THE WALLS HAVE SMASHED CABLE GLASS AND ELEVATOR PARTS LITTER THE AREA.

FIREFIGHTER PETER FALLUCCA File No. 9110388

Every window in the place on the bottom floor was broken. When we first got there, just the windows where we went in there were broken, but now the windows in the back of the lobby were -- there wasn't a window in the bottom of the lobby,

[philb]

8. Firemen: ground level explosions before WTC buildings collapsed

EMT JASON CHARLES FILE No. 9110486
WTC1
WE GET TO THE BACK WE DONT EVEN GET TO THE BACK OF THE BUILDING WE START WALKING BACK THERE AND THEN I HEARD GROUND LEVEL EXPLOSION AND IM LIKE HOLY SHIT AND THEN YOU HEARD THAT TWISTING METAL WRECKAGE AGAIN THEN SAID SHIT AND EVERYBODY STARTED RUNNING


James Ippolito FDNY
WCT1
It looked like some kind of maybe a command post or something was there. I Started to walk towards it, and that's when the building came down. I heard an explosion and turned around and the building was coming down. At that point, we dropped everything we had. We started to run north on West Street. At that point, we were overcome with the cloud and it looked like -- felt a lot of wind again, got knocked down.

Police Lieutenant Michael Murphy Handwritten report. Pages 3& 4 (pa-police-reports01.pdf pages 10-11 ) http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=38371
“…We came upon the NYPD Chief of Detectives with a couple of his men. They appeared to be appraising the situation. We proceeded past them and were within a block of WTC when a couple of loud explosions occurred in front of us.”
FIREFIGHTER KEVIN MURRAY
WTC1
We got up to the fifth floor and there was severe damage. The ceilings had come down, some walls had caved in . Major sprinkler damage. Then we went to the sixth floor and did the same t h i n g . Same sort of damage up there. …

When the tower started -- there was a big explosion that I heard and someone screamed that it was coming down and I looked away and I saw all the windows domino -- you know, dominoeing up and then come down


FIREFIGHTER PATRICK MARTIN
WTC2
My lieutenant said he looked down at the first floor, and he could see the first floor of the south tower like exploding out. I looked up. I looked up, and the sky was filled with that debris cloud.


Stephen Gregory , Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.) flashes, explosions p 14
I know I was with an officer from Ladder 146, a Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.

Q. Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?
A. No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy,

[k-robjoe]

9. Just something

"I am a Boilermaker, Shipbuilder, Blacksmith Forger and helper. Union. Now a contractor on military facilities. I build steel storage tanks for jet fuel. A few years ago, a typhoon blew through, and I got to watch a Mobil AST, with @ 1,000,000 gallons of diesel in it, get hit with lightning, the grounding failed, and the million gallons BLEW!!

Well, for a diesel fire that is. it simply caught fire, burned itself out after 4 days, blackened the steel. Catch that? One million gallons of diesel fuel, burned for 4 days, didn't melt squat. Tank, 1/4" steel, never melted."

http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtopic=3108&st=30 ( 4/5 down )

On edit : Don´t know how comparable it is. But looks like an interesting forum.

[philb]

10. Its clear from the pictures and fireman statements that WTC not very hot

for very long. And there is a study posted here that uses the NIST data to confirm that as well. The temperature wasn't anything close to enough in either building to melt any steel; or even weaken it significantly. the engines that burn jet fuel are steel and the fires there much hoter than in WTC. Jet fuel doesn't melt massive steel beams; or significantly weaken them. Anyone who thinks otherwise should try setting up an experiment using steel beams and a gas fire.

[spooked911]

12. I saw that too-- I think the story is quite believable.

and the physics thread on the WTC collapses are quite reminiscient of discussions here.