For those worried about the Avian Flu

[genius]

Bush won't release it as an epidemic in this country until he has an antidote for himself. The stuff about martial law and so forth makes it look as if he's found the cure and is getting ready to use it against the dissidents. If this is true,the real issue is how do we go about finding whatever cure he has come up with? For those in the dark, check on some of the investments of the Bush and Cheney families and you'll know what is concerning everyone else.

[The Backlash Cometh]

1. Why don't you give us a link to their investments?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[Contrary1]

18. Interesting...

Most of the links under the section titled: "Eugenics sites (the Bush family are among the world's top advocates for eugenics)"
don't work...

but this one: http://www.sightings.com/general3/eugene.htm
redirects you to rense.com and the picture below. :rofl:

[Bernardo de La Paz]

41. I hope "genius" knows that rense.com is Reich wing and not reliable.

[genius]

58. I didn't mention rense.com. Why are you mentioning it?

But now that you bring it up, rense.com is much more reliable than Fox, the main network perpetuating Bush's version of the facts. And the articles I've seen there are definitely not Reich wing. Bush's version certainly is Reich wing though.

[carolinalady]

2. The infectious disease specialists are in an uproar--I do not

believe it is a "Bush" thing--I do believe however, that he is scared shitless that it will happen on his watch and after the last two natural disasters, he is trying to prove that he cares and is making a plan. As a trained health care professional, I am concerned. Pandemics are fact not fiction and they do occur in cycles. Anybody who is trying to make this a political issue is either ignorant or in denial.

[CoffeeCat]

5. Bingo...I think you hit the nail on the head...

You are exactly right.

There are enough researchers, scientists and medical experts who are incredibly concerned. Credible medical journals and publications, such as "Nature" have concluded that the threat of a pandemic from bird flu is highly likely.

With that said, I think you spelled it out perfectly. Bush is attempting to appear as if he's doing something. He's not though.

He met with pharmaceutical companies this week, to give them a talk about creating vaccinations. The pharmas aren't too thrilled about vaccinations, because there aren't a lot of dollars to be made. Plus, if an outbreak doesn't happen, after they invest in massive stockpiles--no one buys the vaccine and the profits take a hit. So Bush went and TALKED with them. Big whoooopeee! He stood there and read a speech, posed for a picture and got a few articles in the MSM about him urging the pharmas to get on the stick.

If he was truly serious about this, he would incentivize them into developing vaccines. He would subsidize vaccination development and research. Furthermore, he would also help the poor afford Tamiflu and other vaccines. I looked into Tamiflu and one seven-day dose was $65. That's costly if you're buying it for a family.

Many say that Bush is fear mongering. They don't trust him, and he's talking about bird flu, so they assume he's using fear to control everyone. It's too bad. Maybe that's what Junior wants.

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. Realistically, with signs of bird flu in Turkey and Romania, how

much time do we have before it reaches our shore?

[genius]

12. I think Bush has the answer. Why would he ask for emergency powers

for something that wasn't coming our way and in a form that would be more than a little frightening?

Here's the other possibility. A fake epidemic as an excuse for Bush to take over. He knows he'll lose Congress in 06 if the elections are legit.

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. Don't you think this is important enough to provide all the details?

Who else, besides Bush, would know that this thing is imminent in the very near future?

[genius]

20. I like it when people come to their own conclusions.

I've provided some links and these lead to others. Legitgov.org has been keeping us up to date on Bush's plans with respect to the avian flu, and this fits in perfectly with all the information that greater writers than I have written about the Bushes and Cheneys and eugenics. I just want people to be ready in case Bush actually goes through with this. Otherwise, people will be scrambling and they won't have much access to the Internet.

[CoffeeCat]

17. He's doing the same thing with bird flu that he's done with terrorism..

Junior used terrorism to take away our freedoms and instill freedom-zapping policies (see Patriot Act).

Now, he'll use bird flu to impose military and government control over citizens.

The threat of bird flu is very real, just like the threat of terrorism is very real. Junior just loves to exploit tragedy for his own sick little game of evil.

If anything--all of this makes me want to be even more prepared. With this power-monger, psychopath at the helm--why would anyone take a chance with the lives and health of their families. Get prepared. Do research.

We all saw what happened in NOLA. Junior will talk the talk, and while he's not walking the walk--you'll be waiting 6 days for a bottle of water while Junior does one more photo op.

[genius]

22. This is true. I don't think people here are prepared for Bush.

What I don't know is whether the event will be real (with the people in power remaining untouched) or hyped to take away our rights.

[TexasLawyer]

49. Freedom of assembly

And what would shut down freedom of assembly faster and longer than the fear of contagious disease?

Hmmmm...

[CoffeeCat]

21. Those birds in Turkey...

are migrating to Europe and other countries. So those birds are on the move. I heard on the news today, that the birds in Turkey were in a sanctuary, and they were temporarily there until they moved on to other parts of the world.

The disease will continue to spread all over.

However, the real danger is when it jumps from human--->human. So far, it is my understanding that it's jumping from bird--->human.

I don't believe there are any confirmed human--->human transmissions, but I could be wrong on that. Someone correct me if I am.

[kestrel91316]

26. There have been several instances of limited p2p spread

in Asia, I think Thailand, Vietnam, and Indonesia more recently. These seemed to dead end after spreading to the second generation of humans. So it is not able to continue propagating among people. But it is way too close for comfort.

The cases involved family members of victims coming down with it (and also dying) when only the index case was exposed to birds, and not the secondary cases. And the timing was such that they were obviously secondary cases.

Interestingly, cats can catch some of people's cold viruses (not all of them). The virus makes for a respiratory illness slightly different from the more common Feline Herpesvirus (Rhinotracheitis). With FHV we see primarily sneezing and nasal/ocular discharge, but when a cat catches a cold from a person there is predominantly coughing. Just my clinical observation. When they catch this,IT DEAD-ENDS WITH THAT CAT. They cannot spread it on to another cat, or back to another human. So we don't worry about it. And it's only a cold, anyway. Thank goodness.

[gkhouston]

77. there have been a few cases

where they believe human->human transmission has taken place, but it's rare. It's only happened when someone was taking care of another person who was ill, so the human->human transmission is not highly contagious, like garden-variety flu. Yet.

[truebrit71]

71. Not long at all I fear...not long at all...

..this could get very nasty....

[gkhouston]

76. maybe not much. And if the pharma companies got off their butts

and cranked out the vaccine, they'd probably have some takers. I've been following the avian flu for months now. All of a sudden, it's in the mainstream news, which is :scared:. Whether the vaccine is needed or not, it wouldn't take much of a PR campaign to convince folks to get vaccinated, IMO.

btw, they're not sure yet that the birds in Romania had H5N1; might have been a different strain of bird flu.

[kestrel91316]

23. I do think, however, that Bush will we busy looking for a way to

exploit this pandemic for personal gain, and for profit for his buddies.

[carolinalady]

33. Only this time, as with Katrina, he will lose--it is bigger than his

"Texas size ego".

[genius]

39. We are talking about lives and freedom here. Both matter to me.

I bet they do to a lot of other people. Bush will strand those making under %10,000,000/year somewhere in quarantine to die, and this time it could be you and your kids. Are you prepared to watch Bush kill your family?

[carolinalady]

43. So what is your plan? I am in no way implying that he is

competant or god forbid Fema knows what they are doing. But instead of pointing fingers at Bush, people need to accept that it does exist, it is most likely going to come to the US and we may or may not be able to defeat it pharmaceutically. If we can GREAT! If we can not we need a plan b. What is your plan b Genius?

[genius]

44. To call him on his plan and make him call it off.

We need to say no to the quarantines and martial law and question why he thinks this bird thing is going to hit humans as a major epidemic. What does he know that we don't? What is he planning that we haven't prepared for? If we start asking the questions and getting people to see him for the villain he is, maybe we can stop him. I'm not afraid of birds. Bush is terrifying.

[carolinalady]

45. Ask the infectious disease specialists--this is where you are

off base. The world is concerned--unlike Iraq where the world said we are nuts, and probably right, they experienced this first, They are looking for help. The doctors are concerned. This is not a Bush plan! I can not change your opinion, but I hope others that read this thread have more common sense than you.

[kestrel91316]

50. "Make him call it off" - ROFLMAO ...........................

I don't think there is any way for anybody to make him change his plans. He is convinced he is right. He is convinced we are wrong and evil. He is convinced he is doing God's work and he probably sees himself as expediting Armageddon/the Rapture/etc.

There is only one way to stop him - that which must not be spoken of.

[CoffeeCat]

3. I'd like to know what those investments are....but I bet I can guess..

...the pharmaceutical companies, perhaps?

[genius]

24. Exactly.

That's why the pharmaceutical industries are thriving under Bush. It's more than just drugs. The Bush and Cheney familes were also involved with Hitler and have continued the research on population control. Part of their research relates to eliminating a large percentage of the human race.

I've also seen a lot of stuff under chemtrails, but I'm not sure how much of that I buy.

[zann725]

47. Population control + drug companies + Avian flu (shots)...to Elderly first

"Tin Foil" or not, I saw "Constant Gardener," and the elderly and disabled (American or otherwise) coincidentally ARE recipients of that "Entitlement" (Social Security) which Shrubco vowed to eliminate one way or another. How unfortunate, yet "efficient" if some of the bird flu shots preferentially given to high-risk/Soc. Sec. recipients has less than a 'healing' effect. Who would question the death of Elderly or those already weakened by disability... whose demise would also conveniently trim SS "entitlements."

Tin Foil or not...as Babs "B" might say, 'Well, they were disadvantaged anyway. This actually might be better...'

Do you honestly believe given the choice of "paying" for years for these (in Corporate eyes) "used-up" individuals for years yet, or having them tragically, suddenly "fall" to Avian flu??? In a time when a less than "compassionate" Admin. and greedy drug co's. willingly offer drugs (like candy) to the Elderly...I keep thinking..."There's no such thing as a free whatever..."

Then there are Dissidents, and...

They say there will probably be enough REAL vaccine for only about ONE PER CENT of the population. Isn't that just about the percent that benefitted from all those Shrubco tax breaks? That "chosen" ONE PERCENT of his "base" at the top?

Okay, enough 'tin foil.' Just speculatin'...is all. Nothing to see...

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. So I'm supposed to "grow up"?

"One site I included has both Republican and Democratic links."

Tinfoil is manufactured independently of party affiliation.

[genius]

15. Just open your eyes and look. Using your eyes is an easy thing to do.

Check the links. Check google.

[Mnemosyne]

27. Try this site:

I've never read anything sounding tinfoil there. But I don't know everything either.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/08020508/H5N1_Ebola_Recombinants.html

Duh, site has info on the flu, not on any plots. That I know nothing about, wasn't paying close enough attention, sorry. However I do believe * would hype it to take control.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

30. Your point: ? My point: bird flu real. Bush dropping it on US is tinfoil.

[Mnemosyne]

37. My point

it's late, I'm tired and wasn't paying enough attention when I posted, which I already stated. ok? My bad.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

16. None of your links has anything to do with "bird flu"

Your reasoning, extremely limited as given so far, is roughly as follows:

Bush bad (true)
Bush corporate (true)
Bird flu bad (true)
Therefore Bush creating bird flu for corporate gain. (false)

You'll have to be more convincincing than posting links to two mammoth collections of links that overlap and one collection (and perhaps the other) dates from 2004.

Burying the reader with a couple hundred links, which if all read would undoubtedly amount to several volumes worth of reading, mostly unannotated as to worth or relevance, is no substitute for a reasoned argument supported by pertinent evidence with relevant references, "genius".

[genius]

29. Here's about the bird flu

Got this from legitgov.org, which will link you to the original article. CLG is the best and most accurate news service on the Internet

"Bush seizes on flu threat to press for martial law power By Bill Van Auken 07 Oct 2005 " Bush suggested that large numbers of troops could be needed to 'effect a quarantine,' essentially sealing off whole cities or regions of the country in the event of an outbreak... Referring to the danger of a flu pandemic, Irwin Redlener, director of the National Center for Disaster Preparedness at Columbia University, warned that the US government 'is phenomenally not prepared for this.' Describing Bush’s proposal as 'extraordinarily draconian,' Dr. Redlener added, 'The translation of this is martial law in the United States.'"

Now, you take those links (which tell you the Bush plan) and you add in the information above and bingo, the what, who and how is right there in front of you.

Think of if this way, would you rather be prepared or hit by surprise?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

32. Your premises are correct, your conclusion is false and illogical.

It is true that bird flu is a real problem.
It is true that Bush proposed martial law.

It is false to conclude that Bush is going to drop it on the US for corporate or authoritarian purposes.

[genius]

35. Right. And the PATRIOT Act doesn't exist as a result of 9/11,

a New Pearl Harbor which was called for by the Project for a New American Century Neocons (which included much of the Bush Administratino)

[carolinalady]

36. If the avian flu infects humans on a widespread basis, there WILL

have to be quarantine--think bubonic plague or any other pandemic. I don't really care if it is the right or left in charge of the plan. I just want to save my babies.

[genius]

38. You can let Bush quarantine you. Leave the rest of us out of this.

[TheWatcher]

65. Don't bother trying to convince that one of anything genius

He is one of those who wants to hang on to his perceptiion of what he wants reality to be at any cost, and any other considerations or viewpoints must be brow beat as "tinfoil" and shouted down.

I don't realy bother with people like that anymore, even those supposedly on "our side". It's a waste of time. It's just like LIHOP/MIHOP. There are some who are so desperate not to believe in either they will shout down anything no matter how plausible or how many legitimate questions it raises.

Thank You for the resources and links.

Open minded people can gather information from sources and decide for themselves what is useful and what is not.

[genius]

70. Thank you.

[Fridays Child]

6. Human to human transmission is not a feature of Avian Flu...

...yet.

Unless and until it has positively mutated to become transmissible between humans, it won't become an issue. This is what I'm getting from the articles, I've read, anyway.

[kestrel91316]

28. See my above post - there has been LIMITED p2p spread,

but it dead-ends at the second generation SO FAR.

[smoogatz]

7. What crap.

Sorry, but this has to be the mother of all tinfoil hat theories. Bush is planning to release an epidemic of avian flu in order to quell dissidence? What a goofy idea. Avian flu is real and potentially deadly--it's a close relative of the 1918 Spanish flu virus that killed 500,000 people in the U.S. But we're also very close to developing a working vaccine--and only a year or so away from a vaccine which is effective, very safe and widely available (this info direct from my mother-in-law, who is a physician). In the meantime, stock up on Tamiflu, which will probably kill your case of avian flu before it kills you. Like other great pandemics of the modern age, avian flu--when it jumps from birds to humans as vectors--will strike the third world disproportionately. The U.S. will be pretty well covered, assuming we have a few months before the virus mutates.

[genius]

11. Did you see 9/11 or London coming? Some people did.

Bush seems to think this is real. Why does Bush want the power to place us under martial law for something that does not exist?

[smoogatz]

19. al Qaeda attacks in the U.S. and the U.K.

were predicted by lots of people. What's your point? Bush thinks a potential avian flu pandemic is a real possibility because it IS a real possibility. My point was, unless it happens in the next six months, we'll be in pretty good shape to deal with it. Bush wants the power to declare martial law because he wants all the power he can get. But you're a loon if you think Bush is planning to unleash an epidemic that could kill 2 million Americans. He may be evil and an idiot, but he's not the anti-Christ.

[genius]

25. Check out "The Power of Nightmares"

Al Qaeda is a CIA creation.

[smoogatz]

31. Oh, for God's sake.

Of course it's a CIA creation--or was, back in the 80s. That doesn't mean they didn't attack us. And it does nothing to advance your goofy theory that Bush is planning to unleash avian flu on liberals.

[genius]

34. My theory is more realistic than yours

The most ridiculous conspiracy theory ever imagined was the nonsense about Al Qaeda and 9/11 that the Bush Administration dreamed up and told a gullible public.

The fact of the matter is that, if the epidemic actually takes place, you better believe that it won't kill Bush or Cheney or any of the neocons. The real question is whether it will be a fake epidemic or a real one. If we tell them the jig is up, maybe they'll go on to their next plan.

[smoogatz]

40. al Qaeda attacked our embassies in Africa and blew a hole the size

of a Volkswagen in the USS Cole. Bush was warned at least a dozen times by the CIA and other agencies that al Qaeda planned to attack inside the U.S. Bin Laden issued at least two major fatwahs declaring war on the U.S. Credible experts in anti-terrorism (remember Richard Clarke?) are convicned it was al Qaeda. It's the simplest possible explanation, and therefore most likely true. Plus, MIHOP is so full of holes it looks like Bush's liver.

[genius]

42. Watch "The Power of Nightmares." There is no Al Qaeda.

Yours is the most complicated explanation imaginable and relies on nonsense and ridiculous conspiracy theories from the sci-fi fantasy realm. And while you are at it, take out our Time-Life copy of 9/11 and this time WATCH it. If you really watch it, you'll realize that the PATRIOT Act had nothing to do with terrorism.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

46. Please take all MIHOP and LIHOP to 911 forum or House of Pancakes.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

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[TheWatcher]

66. How about you let people have a discussion and quit playing

Hall Monitor?

[smoogatz]

51. You just said the CIA created al Qaeda. Now you say

it doesn't exist. In fact, the CIA did create al Qaeda's precursor in the 1980s, as a proxy army with which to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. It's historical fact--documented widely, and televised in part on 60 Minutes. The CIA also built the bunkers at Tora Bora in which bin Laden hid (and from which he later escaped) during Bush's invasion of Afghanistan--also historical fact. If there's no al Qaeda, who bombed our African embassies? Who bombed the USS Cole? Did Bush do it? Quite a stretch, considering he was governor of Texas at the time.

[genius]

54. You believe the Republican news media?

Al Qaeda as you are presenting it is a fiction. The CIA came up with the fiction because it had been learned that the best way to scare people into blind obedience was through fear. The CIA did back Bin Laden and other Arab groups towards their own purposes. The neo-cons have discussed for years their plans and you just need to look at their words. What the neo-cons have done is no secret- except to the dumb and ignorant.

[smoogatz]

55. So the CIA blew up our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania?

The CIA blew a hole in the USS Cole--disguised as a bunch of Arab guys in a Zodiac full of explosives? Is that what you're saying? They did all this when Clinton was in power?

[genius]

57. Now, that's a jump in logic. Why does it have to be either the CIA or a

fictional organization?

Was the British nanny who shook the American baby part of a massive criminal scheme. How about the British baby-shaking Qaeda? It's as logical to say that the nanny was part of a world-wide British terrorist organization as to to make an extension from those acts to this major Al Qaeda conspiracy. The Arabs have never been organized. The CIA came the closest to organizing them as part of one of its goals.

[smoogatz]

60. So, if not al Qaeda and not the CIA, who bombed the embassies

and the Cole? And what evidence do you have that those attacks were unconnected to 9/11?

[genius]

62. What evidence do you have that there was a connection?

[smoogatz]

67. The opinion of people like Richard Clarke, for one

and the fact that the surviving conspirators in the Embassy and Cole attacks are thought to be connected to the bin Laden terrorist group, which we call al Qaeda. There are also the numerous fatwahs issued by bin Laden and his associates against the United States, and the foiled "millenium plot" to hijack and blow up several American 747s over the pacific ocean during the last days of the Clinton administration. There's also the 8/6/01 PDB, entitled "Bin Laden Determined To Strike Inside U.S.," which mentions al Qaeda's desire to hijack multiple U.S. airliners--a PDB that Bushco did its damndest to suppress after 9/11. So, again, what's YOUR evidence that terrorists led by bin Laden did not commit the 9/11 attacks? And are you admitting that al Qaeda carried out the embassy and Cole attacks or not? Yes or no?

[genius]

69. The witnesses only answered the irrelevant questions they were asked

They were trying to pin things on Clinton and Clarke made it clear that Clinton wasn't responsible.

As for the other stuff, it's bull. Clinton's people caught individuals who were disorganized and easily catchable. Bin Laden may have wanted to get revenge, but he was as shocked as everyone when 9/11 happened. He's the kind of person who's eager to take credit for anything bad he gets away with. But, at first he didn't know what to say about 9/11.

how do you explain the inside government information on Mohamed Atta's computer? How do you explain the fact that some of the hijackers trained at military base? How do you explain the fact that seven of the 19 hijackers have turned up alive and well? How do you explain the fact that the NYPD firefighters stated that it looked and sounded like a controlled demolition at the WTC? How do you explain the CIA meeting with Bin Laden in a Paris Hotel in July 2001, after which Bin Laden was released? How do you explain the fact that an amateur pilot made a maneuver that would be tough for a Blue Angel in order to miss hitting any relevant part of the Pentagon? Why were video tapes confiscated from the hotel and gas station and never released? How do you explain the fact that Bush admitted to seeing the first plane hit the WTC? How do you explain the fact that Bush just sat there in the classroom as if everything was going according to plan? How do you explain the fact that Payne Stewart's plane was of significantly more importance than planes known to be hijacked? How do you explain the relationship of Bush brother and of the number 3 man in the CIA to the put options, which showed fore-knowledge of the attacks? How do you explain the lawn at the Pentagon and the Pentagon itself? How do you explain live healthy-looking people looking out through the hottest part of the WTC before the collapse? How do you explain the illegal destruction of evidence by the Bush Administration? How do you believe the FEMA statement that they were called on 9/10 go to New York to clean up the disaster? If Al Qaeda is so dangerous and Bin Laden is behind Al Qaeda, why did Bush care more about protecting the Bin Laden families after 9/11 than the fire-fighters to whom the Administration lied about the air quality? Why did Silverstein admit that building 7 was pulled and when were the explosives installed in building 7 so that it could be pulled? If there is an Al Qaeda threat, why haven't we gone to war with Saudi Arabia? The fact that we have not is itself proof that the Bush Administration doesn't consider Al Qaeda a threat.

[smoogatz]

73. The 9/11 hijackers should have been easily catchable,

given even a minimal degree of competence in law enforcement. Several of them took flight training and didn't bother learning to take off or land, for Chrissakes--it was reported to the FBI who did nothing about it. A simple meeting of Clarke, Tenet, and the heads of the FBI and FAA would have headed the whole thing off. Why is criminal incompetence so much harder to believe than some insanely elaborate conspiracy? As for the rest of your MIHOP "theory", it's either undocumented rumor, twisting of the facts, or just plane nutcakery. I think this statement pretty well sums up the difference between us: "How do you explain the fact that Bush just sat there in the classroom as if everything was going according to plan?" To me, he looked terrified--absolutely dumbstruck, with no idea what to do. I know I won't convince you, but it's pretty clear to me, given evrything else they've done, that Bush and his cabal of rightwing pinheads ARE guilty of numerous crimes on 9/11--3,000 counts of criminal negligence.

[genius]

75. Those who believe they did it are the big conspiracy theorists.

Al Qaeda is a conspiracy theory. Look up the definition. Now, who kept their names off the flight manifests? More conspirators? To believe they did it involves to many conspirators and is too far fetched. Now fire has never brought down a steel framed building. How did these guys place the government message on Atta's computer? More conspirators? Did Al Qaeda arrange for the debris to be illegally removed? Did they make Silverstein admit to pulling building 7? If building 7 had pre-set explosives, what about the rest? Did your Arabs convince the guy who certified the steel for Underwriter Laboratories to say that fire did not bring down the WTC? Was he working for Al Qaeda? This conspiracy gets bigger and bigger? Were the fire-fighter witnesses to the controlled demolition also Al Qaeda? Did Al Qaeda plant the healthy-looking people who are on video looking out of the hottest part of the WTC before the collapse on Time-Life's video? Was the Fox News Reporter who said there were no windows on the second plane working for Al Qaeda? Did Al Qaeda film the event for Fox, ABC, NBC and CBS? All their videos are proof that the official story is nonsense. The Bush believers would have the whole world believing that Al Qaeda has infiltrated all the networks, the airlines, Underwriters Laboratories and the New York Fire Department and that they forced Silverstein to make that comment. They would also have us believe that the hijackers who have turned out alive and well and been photographed and verified by their families as being who they say they are are also part of this big conspiracy as are the reporters who have photographed them alive and well. Must be from Krypton, right? They would also have us believe that all those who have really looked at the videos and seen the evidence with their own eyes are part of this amazing conspiracy. They would also have us believe that the people who worked for the control towers in Cleveland and Columbus, Ohio are part of Al Qaeda. Did Al Qaeda faked the news conference where Bush admitted to seeing the first plane hit the tower. Was it an Al Qaeda operative inside FEMA that told them to come to New York on 9/10. Was the number 3 man of the CIA and Bush's brother, who were involved in the put-option situation part of Al Qaeda?

Boy, against this going Al Qaeda conspiracy, how could America have a chance? If Al Qaeda as is as prominent as the conspiracy theorists who believe Al Qaeda was behind 9/11 would have to believe to align their views with the facts, then the only way Bush can take out Al Qaeda is to make war on all of planet Earth.

The only undocumented rumors are the ones used to support the conspiracy theory that Al Qaeda did it. The facts that the MIHOPers are looking at are all DOCUMENTED.

[Padme Amidala]

79. This is why Roberts was confirmed and why USA-PATRIOT was passed

Too many Democrats are willing to hide their eyes from the facts. It is as if they want to believe Bush despite proof to the contrary. When the truth about 9/11 can be posted in the Democratic Underground and Democrats feel safe telling the truth, our leaders will stand up to Bush. Why should our leaders stand up when people here buy Bush's lies?

[smoogatz]

81. All documented? Bushwah.

It's all crap; nothing but rumor and hysteria. Fire has never brought down a steel framed building? What steel framed building has ever been hit by a 747, fully loaded with fuel? What documented proof do you have that ANY of the hijackers are still alive, other than the alleged word of their families? Have any of them showed up on Al Jazeera to categorically debunk the official story once and for all? No? And do you know why? They're fucking DEAD, that's why. Please provide a link to your documentation of the put option story--I'd like to see it for myself. And the whole missile-hit-the Pentagon theory is, pardon me, the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard. Followers and cohorts of bin Laden had a history of attacking U.S. assets abroad; they declared war on the U.S. in no uncertain terms; they were known to be in the U.S., some of them taking commercial flight lessons on simulators without bothering to learn to take off or land. But whatever--your theory is that Bush pulled off a massive clandestine operation and coverup, involving hundreds--if not thousands--of operatives so loyal to the neocon vision that they were willing to murder 3,000 of their own countrymen. My theory--supported by documented fact--is that 19 hate-crazed Arab guys, hiding in plain sight, managed to hijack a few poorly-secured passenger jets and crash them into three enormous buildings, aided and abetted by massive government incompetence.

[MrSammo1]

83. USS Cole

Who's to say that the same (neocon) people behind 911.......didn't do the USS Cole?

TWA800?

OKC?

[RONSTOO]

48. but wait

Jeffrey Taubenberger (and several associates) recently succeeded in pulling off one of the most spectacular accomplishments in contemporary biological history. They recapitulated the entire genome of the H1N1 strain of influenza virus that was responsible for the 1918 pandemic. Their conclusion? It was a pure avian strain. The implications, and ramifications of this research? Colossal, to say the least. An antigenic shift is now conclusively proven to be unnecessary for H5N1 to become a fully-realized, entirely efficient H-to-H pathogen. Taubenberger's (et al) blueprint was recapitulated in a laboratory model. It's the real thing. H5N1 is following H1N1's trajectory...right down to the incorporation of the handful of molecular reconfigurations that allowed H1N1 to become a completely efficient H-to-H transmittible pathogen. We're watching the thing in real-time, now. Welcome to everybody's worst nightmare.

[smoogatz]

56. Don't confuse the man with facts.

They'll garble his communications with the mothership.

[Gyre]

52. Well, that's one thought.

But damned if I can tell what that "thought" is.

Gyre

[Silverhair]

59. Two words that an Uber-conspiracy Theorist hates:

"Shit happens."

Many things that happen are random and have no political rational behind them. They can't be fitted in to any theory of reason for events. Hurricanes happen, without regard to human politics. Earthquakes, great fires, floods, tornadoes, tsunamis, pandemics happen - all on their own. This make the CTist feel like the world is unordered and out of control. Bad things can happen for no reason at all, and that scares the brains right out of the CTist's skulls. So they invent loopy CTs to give order to their universe.

All CTs must have an almost all-powerful villain on which all the ills of the world can be blamed. Then the CTists can believe that if the villain can only be defeated then peace and love will return to the universe and all will be well.

Like the "Death Star", the villain has one subtle weakness that only the CTist has spotted, and if he can get the word out about that weakness then some how the light of the force will melt the villain like Dorthy's witch.

But the problem is, that in the real world - SHIT HAPPENS.

And Avian Flu may be part of that shit.

[genius]

61. That analysis thoroughly refutes the official version of 9/11.

Bin Laden was the super-villain on whom Bush and the gullible dizzyheads who accepted Bush's conspiracy theory blamed the collapse of the WTC and the demise of the Pentagon. I remember after the so-called attacks Bin Laden's first response indicated he was as shocked as everyone else. It wasn't until later that he realized that it made him appear more capable to take credit for being that all-powerful villain.

[The Magistrate]

64. As A Matter Of Curiousity, Ma'am

What do you think to blame for "the collapse of the WTC and the demise of the Pentagon"?

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[genius]

87. If all polite responses to your question are going to be deleted,don't ask

It gives the appearance that I'm being rude when all I did was speak about the questions of 9/11.

[snowbear]

74. Jack Cafferty's question of the hour...

Has to do with the administration (YET AGAIN) appointing a cronie with =ZERO= experience to oversee the bird flu crisis for the Dept. of Health and Human Services.

Can't wait to see what responses roll in about "Stewart Simonson" who's experience according to Cafferty, is that he worked at Amtrak. :wtf:

[gkhouston]

78. he's worked at Amtrak? Perfect experience.

'cause this is gonna be a train wreck...

[Padme Amidala]

80. I would have nominated this but I didn't check the forum over the weekend

Sorry. This is a really good thread.

[tritsofme]

82. I'd just like to thank the mods

for moving this thread out of GD.

Thanks.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tritsofme]

85. I would venture to guess

The owners of this site are a tad embarrassed by some of these kooky theories, and want them as far away from the marginal visitor as possible.

I definitely don't blame them.

I've been at this site for two years, and this is the first and hopefully the only time I stumble into this part of the website.

[philb]

86. Vaccines for flu and such cause much more harm than benefit

Vaccines are documented to have severely harmed over 50% of the 90s generation kids; the National Academy of Sciences says that over 50% of pregnancies from the 90s resulted in birth defects or developmental disabilities- ADHA/autism spectrum(over 15%), mood disorders and learning disabilities(over 20%), excema(10%), asthma and respiratory problems(over 20%), etc. etc. And there is documentation that most of these problems were caused by toxic exposure- with mercury and vaccines being the biggest problem.
Most vaccines have contained high levels of mercury, as well as other toxics such as aluminum and formaldehyde- damages immune system.

http://www.flcv.com/tmlbn.html
http://www.flcv.com/indexk.html

But people also get very high mercury exposure from dental amalgam fillings(http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/damspr1.html
and fish( http://www.flcv.com/flhg.html

which are the largest cause of chronic degenerative health conditions for adults as well
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/indexa.html


ps. flu vaccines generally do not prevent flu; in addition to serious adverse effects being common, there is some evidence the unvaccinated population is harmed less by flu than the vaccinated population. A better and more effective solution is to boost the immune system, with multivit/min, vit C, E, antioxidants, immune boosters, etc.
and if you get the flu its not as bad but also treatable-
Vit C/mineral IVs, etc.

[nomatrix]

88. How did this topic get into the September 11 forum?

Really.

If any poster, within a thread, redirects a topic to some conspiracy, does it get dumped here?

[nashville_brook]

89. prolly the same way the OP got tombstoned

[philb]

90. There are measures that deal with any type flu effectively; without vaccin

Strengthen your immune system and flu won't affect you or not much if you do get it;

but Vit C/mineral IVs improve conditions like flu, etc. rapidly even for those who don't have a strong immune system; it also speeds up recovery from operations and deters antibiotic resistant infections.

likewise an even stronger measure is Ultra Violet B IV; which is effective for not only flu but antibiotic resistant infections, Hepatitis C, even to some degree for Aids.
Into the Light(Dr. William Campbell Douglas)

[philb]

91. Flu vaccines aren't effective; but are very dangerous

Besides the fact that flu shots are known to not be very effective at preventing flu(1),
flu shots contain mercury and have been documented to have significant adverse health effects(2).
There are very few if any long term studies of what effect the flu vaccine has on your health. One such study has revealed the following. According to Hugh Fudenberg, MD, one of the world's leading immunogeneticist and one of the most quoted biologist of our times (nearly 850 papers in peer review journals), if an individual has had five consecutive flu shots between 1970 and 1980 (the years studied), his/her chances of developing Alzheimer's Disease is ten times higher than if they had one, two or no shots. Dr. Fudenberg was asked why this was so and he said it was due to the mercury and aluminum that is in every flu shot (and most childhood shots). The gradual mercury and aluminum build-up in the brain causes cognitive dysfunction. (2)

It is possible to protect yourself from getting the flu, reducing effects if you get it, and help to build health by detoxifying the immune system and doing things to strenghten the immune system.
Notes:
1. Flu Shots: Do they really work?, Severyn, R.Ph., Ph.D., Kristine M., Vaccine News.
2. Recorded from Dr. Fudenberg's speech at the NVIC International Vaccine Conference, Arlington, VA, September, 1997. Quoted with permission.
3. www.whale.to/v/quotes3.html
4. www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/kidshg.html
5. www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/indexa.html
(note: Fudenberg treats mercury toxicity conditions like autism and is well known)
*****************************
American researchers find that those who were vaccinated were almost twice as likely to seek assistance at an emergency department because of their asthma than those not vaccinated.

By Michael Bradley
www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/23/1090464867466.html
Sydney Morning Herald, Australia