1976 U.S air safety travel:-

[seatnineb]

I am United States Defense Department Intelligence Operative "Grillfire" aka US Government Federal Agent Timothy S. McNiven; in 1976 I took part in a Democratic - Republican Political Party US Congressional Commissioned Military Study to Improve US Air Travel Security while stationed on Strassberg Kasern in Idar-Oberstein,W.Germany assigned to C-Battery 2/81st FA, US Army 1975-76. The purpose of the Study was to Identify Security Lapses and Submit Corrective Actions to the US Congress; on September 11,2001 the Security Lapses that were used to carry out the Attacks were the same ones that were submitted to the US Congress for Correcting "25 Years" before.



http://www.codenamegrillfire.com/index.php?n=1&id=1

[LARED]

1. The implication is?

Congress lacked the backbone for thirty years to take corrective action.

or

The conspiracy has been in place since Bush was a frat boy.

or

???

[seatnineb]

2. In the words of Timoth McNiven

The information that you need to take away with you is that the Democrats and the Republicans Knew that US Air Travel Security needed to be Improved in 1976 when They conducted this Study to do just that, Improve US Air Travel Security in 1976; They had sufficient information to Remedy the Identified and Known Security Lapses with the Corrective Actions that were sent to the US Congress; and that They had Billions of Dollars in US Tax Payer's Money and 25 Years to "Just Begin" to Implement the Security Upgrades and Improvements from Their Own Study to Improve US Air Travel Security.
http://www.codenamegrillfire.com/index.php?n=1&id=1

[EVDebs]

9. FAA Air Marshall program, mentioned in the 9-11 Report

Who would have hired more Air Marshalls if they had really been reading the PDB of Aug 6, 2001 ? D'Oh, that would be...Bush ? And why didn't the 9-11 Report detail the hiring situation or even give the commissioners a look into that in camera at the very least ?

Reagan expanded the program ?
http://www.ice.gov/graphics/fams/
according to this website


""The Mission of the Federal Air Marshal Service is to be responsible for and protect air security and promote public confidence in our nation's civil aviation system through the effective deployment of Federal Air Marshals in order to detect, deter and defeat hostile acts targeting U.S. air carriers, airports, passengers and crews...
They must make split-second, life-and-death decisions at 30,000 feet without backup. They rely on their instincts and stringent training to protect hundreds of lives. They blend in with passengers while remaining aware and vigilant. These quiet professionals are ICE’s Federal Air Marshals (FAMs).

The Federal Air Marshal Service began in 1968 as the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) Sky Marshal Program. In 1985, President Ronald Reagan requested the expansion of the program, and Congress enacted the International Security and Development Cooperation Act, which provided the statutes behind today’s Federal Air Marshal Service.


On September 11, 2001, the Federal Air Marshal Service consisted of 33 FAMs. President George W. Bush quickly authorized an increase in the number of Federal Air Marshals, and almost overnight the Service received over 200,000 applications. A classified number of these applicants were screened, hired, trained, certified and deployed on flights around the world. Today these FAMs serve as a key component of ICE, the largest investigative arm of the Department of Homeland Security, in the war against terrorism""

Wow, Reagan 'expanded' the program to a whole 33 FAMs ? Someone needs to tell me how many there were before 9-11-01. Truthfully.

"As with most areas of civil aviation security, only limited information about the Federal Air Marshal program can be made public. The FAA will not reveal the number or identity of the marshals, the details of their training, nor the routes they fly. No one on board a flight will know an air marshal is present except for the pilot and flight crew. What can be said publicly is that the Federal Air Marshals are a full-time dedicated force that continuously deploys throughout the world on all the major U.S. carriers in areas where terrorist activities indicate the highest probability of attacks. Federal Air Marshals fly every day of the year."

http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/terrorism/airmarshal.html

If Bush knew in the Aug PDB what was coming and knew there were only 33 Federal Air Marshals...well, the incompetence is overwhelming.

[petgoat]

3. Given FAA's 52 warnings, it's unbelieveable that a few simple

actions were not taken.

1. strengthen cockpit doors
2. develop standard procedures, policies, and communication codes
for cockpit access by flight crew and hijack contingencies
3. remind ATCs of standard procedures for calling in NORAD

If the danger of aircraft as missiles was not known, it should have
been. Hijackers tried to fly aircraft into the Eiffel Tower and into
FedEx headquarters. Atlanta airspace was closed during the '96 Olympic
games. Project Bojinka anticipated flying hijacked aircraft into
landmark buildings, and the Genoa G-8 summit in 7/01 got warnings that
Osama was planning an aerial assault. Vladimir Putin warned of suicide
pilots training for attacks on US targets.

[seatnineb]

6. The CIA were not averse to the idea of using "flying bombs" either!

Clarridge(Director of CIA counter terrorist center) commisioned them(CIA Counter terrorist engineers) to work on a highly classifed pilotless drone equiped with intercept equipment, an infared camera , and low noise wooden proppellars .It might fly over head at 2,500 feet and locate the American hostages.He spent $7 million dollars on 5 prototypes in what he dubbed the Eagle program.

Another use for the drones might be sabotage operations in Libyia.Claridge wanted to load one drone with 200 pounds of C-4plastic explosives and 100 pounds of ball bearings.His plan was to fly it onto Tripoli' s airfield at night,blow it up, and destroy a "whole bunch" of commercial airliners sitting unoccupied on the ground.He also tried to load small rockets onto the drones that could be used to fire at pre designated targets.

But all the technology was in it's infancy.

Ghost Wars
By Steve Coll.
Page 144.

[MercutioATC]

10. Way off base.

1) That would require the airlines spending money. Without a real reason (like 9/11) that'd never fly.

2) Those already exist.

3) We know the procedures (we don't call in NORAD, management does that). Those procedures were followed, the procedures just take time...more time, obviously, than they should.

[petgoat]

11. 1,2,3

1) How much money for a sheet of plywood, some carriage bolts, and a
couple of supplemental latches? Or a floor socket, a door socket, and a
length of thinwall conduit?

2) If secure protocols exist, how did the hijackers get through the
doors?

3) Management didn't follow the procedures, then. According to the
9/11 Commission, NORAD never was informed about flight 77 or flight 93.
They say that after three planes were flown into building, at 9:49 FAA
HQ and FAA Command Center were dithering over whether to call in NORAD.
(p. 29)

Not saying I believe the 9/11 Commission, but that's what they say.

[MercutioATC]

12. 1,2,3

1) About $40 in parts, another $150 or so in labor. Would it pass FAA inspection? Never. EVERYTHING that's done to commercial planes has to pass an FAA inspection...and those modifications that WILL pass an inspection are never inexpensive.

2) That's something we don't know. Perhaps they weren't followed. However, they did exist.

3) Actually, they did. As I've stated umpteen times here, there were a LOT of links in the chain that led to NORAD notification. That takes time...too much time in this case.

[PerpetualYnquisitive]

4. Another blast from the past....

If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

MD-90 From United States, joined Jan 2000, 5181 posts, RR: 12
Posted Thu Nov 30 2000 04:39:15 UTC+2 and read 171630 times:

When the two towers that make up the World Trade Center were built, they were designed to withstand the impact of the largest airliner of the day, the Boeing 707 Intercontinental. The Empire State Building survived a B-25 medium bomber crashing into it on very foggy day. It was during the weekend when most people weren't there, but still, 14 people died.

Anyone wanna bet that the World Trade Center could survive an 767-300 impact?

More here: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/336291/4/

[seatnineb]

5. The Phillipino U.S embassy recieved the bojinka plot details.......

......so says the Colonel who analysed the Bojinka plot in 1995:

In the words of Sonny Razon(Now General of the Phillipine National Police)
"We told the Americans about the plans to turn planes into flying bombs as far back as 1995.
Why didn't they pay attention"

1000 years for revenge
By Peter Lance
Pulished By Harper Collins

Page 282

BTW Perpetualy.......nice find on airliners.net!

[Generarth]

7. Looking on BBs before 2001 is a really really good idea

I'm sure theres more out there.

[seatnineb]

8. Flight 93 pilot Leroy Homer knew "something big" was coming.........

Melody Leroy(wife of Leroy Homer) later learned(after 9/11) from a member of the Air Force who worked with her husband that a couple of weeks before the incident(9/11),they were all sitting around and talking about the intelligence that was filtering through from the military that something big was going to happen......."
http://www.subliminalnews.com/archives/000144.php

And when Leroy recieved this warning about the other hijackings that had already occured by this point:

Leroy Homer,36, the first officer,recieved a radioed text message from air traffic control in Chicago warning aircraft of that morning's(9/11) hijackings."beware cockpit intrusions" the text message said..At about 9:15am the crew typed a one word reply:..."CONFIRMED".."
http://www.devvy.com/red_20011210.html

..it makes it all the more unbelievable that his cockpit could have been stormed by box wielding Arabs......without Leroy even getting a chance to pump in the hijacking code.

[Informed Citizen]

13. THIS IS CRAP - If it looks to good to be true...

Read the WWU Presentation. He gives us very little info about the report, spends a great deal of time establishing his credibility, and then points the finger at Carter and Clinton. The whole site takes this approach. I am not impressed. Neither should you be.

- I.C.

[seatnineb]

14. Let Time be the Judge,Jury and Executioner.

Lt. Michael Teague was from Long Island, NY and when those who were conducting the Study changed the scenario from any 100 story building to the WTC Twin Towers, he said he could do this because it was his duty but it was weird to be asked to plan to blow up your own hometown. This is the one person that I would like most to hear what his opinion is now, that the attacks happened the way we planned them to in 1976.

Cutting the throat of the stewardess was a contribution to the Study that I made; one day Lt. Teague asked the question what could be done to take control of passengers on a hijacked airplane? I said; take one of the stewardess' and cut her throat, toss her to the floor and then grab another one and hold the knife on her. I was asked why this would work and I explained that to just hold a knife to the throat of a stewardess wouldn't get the passengers attention because everyday on TV we see people taken hostage with knifes of guns and we have become immune to this; where if you were to cut the jugular vein and spray 2 to 3, maybe 4 rows of passengers with her blood this would get their attention; then I was asked why this would get their attention? I answered that when I worked at a machine shop in California one employee injured his hand while using the punch press and severed an artery; turning around to see why he yelled I saw a stream of blood shooting out of his hand, I had been told that blood could do this but I had never seen it happen; so instead of helping him I just stood there in amazement of how far his blood was squirting and to spray the first few rows of passengers would have a similar effect of getting their attention that you where dead serious about what you were doing.

http://www.codenamegrillfire.com/index.php?n=8&id=8

[Informed Citizen]

15. Wow!!!

Ya, I read that too. Looks like I read it better than you. This is not a reputable source for confirmed fact. The only two dramatic points are those that you have highlighted. Doesn't do much for me. And restating the issue is a poor way to counter in a debate.

Let Time be the Judge, Jury, and Executioner.? Do you recognize how irrational that statement is? It means nothing. We ARE a communal jury of informed citizens. Our government requires effective public oversight. Are they going down because they are evil? Yes. But only because we are the jury, and they must not escape judgement. And I'm not talking about executing anyone.

People who don't tell their story without eliminating unnecessary bias are undermining their own credibility as a witness. People who just don't think about smart stuff like that should shut up and listen. I'm usually in a more educational mood. This story is uncorroborated, overly self-affirming, and scant in important information. I would not suggest that you promote it as this may eventually come back to haunt you, at least with some well deserved ribbing. I hope someone else comes forward to back him up and expand the story a bit.

- I.C.

[seatnineb]

16. Fine ,that is your opinion.... I even agree with some of your points.

But before dismissing it or accepting it......everyone should at least read it or have a chance to read it.

By posting exerpts from that site I am just hoping that may inspire people to check out the site for themselves,irrespective of whether they agree or disagree with what they see and read.

For my part,I have an open mind to Timothy McNiven's testimony.

Time will tell what significance his testimony has(if any).

[Informed Citizen]

17. Well resolved. (n/t)