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Beyond the sorrows of empire: THE UGLY UGLY TRUTH

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 04:04 PM
Original message
Beyond the sorrows of empire: THE UGLY UGLY TRUTH
Edited on Wed Oct-26-05 04:17 PM by Beam Me Up
Over two thousand slain American servicemen and women, tens of thousands more maimed and wounded physically and mentally, untold tens of thousands of Iraqi and Afghani dead. This is the so called "War on Terror" the 'war' we are told will not end in our lifetimes.

How can their be healing of our nation, healing of our human world, how can their be forgiveness for a sick, irrational, illegal and IMMORAL 'war' without TRUTH, ACCOUNTABILITY AND JUSTICE?

In truth what is happening in Iraq and Afganistan and throughout the Middle East is not a 'war' on terrorism or anything else. What it is IS A BARBERIC ACT OF OPPRESSION by the perpetrators of an American Empire who have thrown upon it a thin and sardonic veneer of "democratic liberation". The entire Republican administration, much of the Congress, much of the press and electronic meda, and many otherwise intelligent American citizens ARE GUILTY OF WAR CRIMES AND COMPLICIT IN CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

I want to talk about how ugly and deep this sinister plot goes because the fact of the matter is, the events of 9/11, which pResident Bush called "the Pearl Harbor of the 21st Century," is at the core of our current international and domestic policies.

More than any other event or 'authoritative statement', it was--and I dare say continues to be--the events of 9/11 which propelled this country into 'war' in Afghanistan and Iraq. NEVER MIND that the alleged perpetrator of those attacks, Osama bin Laden--or anyone closely associated with him--has never been captured or questioned. NEVER MIND that there was no more evidence presented to back up this Oficial Conspiracy Theory than there was to back up the assertion that Iraq harbored terrorists or that it was involved in the 9/11 attack or that it held weapons of mass destruction that were an imminent threat to the United States--all of which have subsequently proven to be false.

THE EVENTS OF 9/11 WERE A CALCULATED PSYCHOLOGICAL OPERATION AIMED AT THE HEART AND CONCIENCE OF THE AMERICA PEOPLE, and by extension the people of the world. It is not only the families of those who were killed or injured in the events of that day who are victims of 9/11, IT IS ALL OF US. Each and every one of us and many people around the world suffered grief and horror on that day as they, thanks to the 'miracle' of global communications, witnessed repeatedly a traumatic spectacle like no other seen before. Moreover, in quick succession, as we tried to understand what was happening, how it could have happened and who could be responsible, our grief and horror were turned to a kind of seething rage as we were told that this was done to us by "Islamic Fundamentalists" who "hate us for our freedoms."

It is now becoming increasingly clear, however--as, indeed, it was to a few of us even on that day--that THE EVENTS THAT TOOK PLACE ON 9/11 WERE COMPLETELY ORCHISTRATED FROM WITHIN THE US GOVERNMENT AND MILITARY BY A SMALL HIGHLY PLACED CABAL. They did it. They did it not only for oil, not only for unimaginable wealth and power, they did it to create the social conditions necessary to implement the ultimate weaponization of space.

Who are "they"? We can name three prime suspects: Vice President Richard Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and (then) head of NORAD, General Ralph E. Eberhart. The events of 9/11 could not have unfolded as they did without at the very least their foreknowledge and consent. If there is, indeed, a "secret government" operating parallel with our Constitutional government, these three men must be a part of it.

To fully grasp the significance of this, I highly recommend that everyone on DU at least read the transcript of the talk given by David Ray Griffin entitled 9/11 and the American Empire: How Should Religious People Respond? Whether you regard yourself as "religious" or not, I'm sure you regard yourself as a person of moral, humane values, in which case I believe the information and perspective provided by Dr. Griffin in this talk are essential to our understanding of the world we live in today. He clearly defines his three terms, "religious people," "the American Empire" and "9/11" and emphasizes that those of us who value human life and try to live our lives according to moral principals will have different perspectives on "the American Empire"--and the "full spectrum dominance" outlined by PNAC's Rebuilding America's Defenses( www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3249.htm).

This speech, by the way, was broadcast on C-Span on April 30th of this year and can be downloaded from various web sites such as from this page in a variety of video formats and also via BitTorrent from from this page. However, a better quality version, enhanced with informative graphics, can be acquired from the Muslim-Jewish-Chrisitian Aliance for 9/11 Truth (MUCHA-NET) http://www.mujca.com , who sponsored this presentation, for a small donation of $20. I highly recommend it.

But to put some "meat on the table" in this post, I offer you the following information which I believe helps us to better grasp the political reality that has formed around us since 9/11:

In his biograhy on the Airforce web site, we find the following:


General Eberhart entered the Air Force in 1968 as a graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy. His staff experience includes serving as Executive Officer to the Air Force Chief of Staff at Headquarters U.S. Air Force; Deputy Chief of Staff for Inspection, Safety and Security, Headquarters Tactical Air Command; Director for Programs and Evaluation, Headquarters U.S. Air Force; Director of Force Structure, Resources and Assessment, the Joint Staff; and Deputy Chief of Staff for Plans and Operations, Headquarters U.S. Air Force. The general has also served as Vice Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force, Commander, Air Combat Command, Commander, Air Force Space Command, and as Commander in Chief, U.S. Space Command.


I emphasize the "Commander in Chief, U.S. Space Command" because, as Dr. Griffin points out in his speech:


Fully Facing the Truth about the American Empire

To be sure, as Chomsky, Falk, and Chalmers Johnson illustrate, strong portrayals of American imperialism as far from benign can be drawn without any suggestion that the Bush administration arranged 9/11. These portrayals can be drawn from publicly available documents.

One such document is the "National Security Strategy of the United States of America," published by the Bush administration in September of 2002. David North says, not unfairly, that this document "asserts as the guiding policy of the United States the right to use military force . . . against any country it believes to be, or it believes may at some point become, a threat to American interests." "No other country in modern history," adds North, "has asserted such a sweeping claim to . . . world domination." (1: see Notes below)

Another such document, called "Vision for 2020," was published in February of 1997 by the US Space Command. The mission statement at the head of this document reads: "U.S. Space Command--dominating the space dimension of military operations to protect US interests and investment."(2) There is no mention of democracy and human rights. In the body of the document, in fact, we find this amazingly candid statement: "The globalization of the world economy . . . will continue with a widening between 'haves' and 'have-nots.'" The point of this statement is that as the domination of the world economy by the United States and its allies increases, the world's poor will get still poorer, making the 'have-nots' hate America all the more. We will need, therefore, the power to keep them in line.

The United States can do this---and this is the document's main message--through "Full Spectrum Dominance," which will involve merging "space superiority with land, sea, and air superiority." Dominance in space will include, the document frankly says, the power "to deny others the use of space."

By speaking only of the Space Command's effort to develop a "missile defense system," the Pentagon and the White House like to suggest that its purpose is purely defensive. But the goal includes weaponizing space so as to give US forces, in the words of a more recent document, a "prompt global strike capability, whether nuclear or non-nuclear, (that) will allow the US to rapidly and accurately strike distant . . . targets." (3) The fact that the U.S. Space Command's program is an aggressive one is announced in the logo of one of its divisions: "In Your Face from Outer space."(4)

Simply from these and other documents, taken in conjunction with the actions of the Bush administration and the US military, we can see through the claim that the US project of creating the first truly global empire is a benevolent or at least benign enterprise. However, we can fully grasp the extent to which this project is propelled by fanaticism based on a deeply perverted value system only when we realize that the terrorist attacks of 9/11 were orchestrated by our own leaders--and that they did this to provide the justification, the fear, and the funding for the so-called war on terror, which would be used as a pretext for enlarging the empire.

I will illustrate this point with one of the most brazen examples of the use of 9/11 to get funding. Shortly before the current Bush administration took office, a document entitled Rebuilding America's Defenses was published by an organization called the Project for the New American Century, founding members of which included Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, and Donald Rumsfeld. This document focused primarily on getting more tax money allocated for the technological transformation of the US military, with the centerpiece of this technological transformation being the US Space Command's project to weaponize and thereby control space. Because this transformation of the US military will be very expensive, the document said, it will probably proceed very slowly--unless America suffers "some catastrophic and catalyzing event--like a new Pearl Harbor."(5) It is interesting that on the night of 9/11, President Bush reportedly wrote in his diary, "The Pearl Harbor of the 21st century took place today."(6)

In any case, earlier that evening, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld was on message. We might assume that he would have been disoriented by the fact that the Pentagon had just, on his watch, suffered an unprecedented attack. Instead, he was ready to use the attacks to obtain more money for the US Space Command. In front of television cameras, Rumsfeld berated Senator Carl Levin, then chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, saying:

Senator Levin, you and other Democrats in Congress have voiced fear that you simply don't have enough money for the large increase in defense that the Pentagon is seeking, especially for missile defense. . . . Does this sort of thing convince you that an emergency exists in this country to increase defense spending . . . ?(7)


This strategy worked. Congress immediately appropriated an additional $40 billion for the Pentagon. Since then, furthermore, the president has gotten every additional appropriation he has sought for the so-called war on terror
.


My emphasis above.

As for Cheney and Rumsfeld, it is commonly known that on the morning of 9/11 Vice President Richard Cheney was in the White House Situation Room and Defense Secretary Rumsfeld was in the Pentagon. What is less commonly known is that Cheney and Rumsfeld have been deeply immersed in the National Security infrastructure of the United States for most of their political careers. Here are a few excerpts from an article by James Mann originally published in The Atlantic, March 2004, entitled "The Armagedon Plan":


Rumsfeld and Cheney were principal actors in one of the most highly classified programs of the Reagan Administration. Under it U.S. officials furtively carried out detailed planning exercises for keeping the federal government running during and after a nuclear war with the Soviet Union.

/snip/

There things stood until September 11, 2001, when Cheney and Rumsfeld suddenly began to act out parts of a script they had rehearsed years before. Operating from the underground shelter beneath the White House, called the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, Cheney told Bush to delay a planned flight back from Florida to Washington. At the Pentagon, Rumsfeld instructed a reluctant Wolfowitz to get out of town to the safety of one of the underground bunkers, which had been built to survive nuclear attack. Cheney also ordered House Speaker Dennis Hastert, other congressional leaders, and several Cabinet members (including Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman and Interior Secretary Gale Norton) evacuated to one of these secure facilities away from the capital. Explaining these actions a few days later, Cheney vaguely told NBC's Tim Russert, "We did a lot of planning during the Cold War with respect to the possibility of a nuclear incident." He did not mention the Reagan Administration program or the secret drills in which he and Rumsfeld had regularly practiced running the country.

In other words, during the Regan Administration, Cheney and Rumsfeld were part of a plan to insure continuity of government even in the event of a catastrophic nuclear Òfirst strikeÓ against the United States. The Regan administration established a chain of succession and layers of extremely secure chains of command and communication within and between the military and government and placed Cheny and Rumsfeld at its head. Here they practiced Òfirst strikeÓ war game scenarios for many years--just as they were practicing on the day of 9/11.


Moreover, as recently as yesterday, October 25, 2005, Lawrence B. Wilkerson, who served as chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, wrote in a Los Angeles Times OP ED:

IN PRESIDENT BUSH'S first term, some of the most important decisions about U.S. national security Ñ including vital decisions about postwar Iraq Ñ were made by a secretive, little-known cabal. It was made up of a very small group of people led by Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

When I first discussed this group in a speech last week at the New America Foundation in Washington, my comments caused a significant stir because I had been chief of staff to then-Secretary of State Colin Powell between 2002 and 2005.

But it's absolutely true. I believe that the decisions of this cabal were sometimes made with the full and witting support of the president and sometimes with something less. More often than not, then-national security advisor Condoleezza Rice was simply steamrolled by this cabal.


Repeatedly we, even on the left, have been told that the real, underlying reason for the war on terror is for the oil. This is no doubt true given that if America is to have economic primacy in the world, it must secure global petrochemical resources. But now we see there is another, deeper and far more sinister implication of the so called "war on terror" and that is to gain once and for all supreme and absolute military superiority through the wepaonization of space. Space is the ultimate "high ground" and with the United States government now poised to use first strike nuclear capability against any nation it deems as even a potential threat to our "national interests," whether they be economic or otherwise, we see the full ugliness and brutality of what has formed around us since 9/11.

Dr. Griffin's call is a call to all human beings of conscience to educate themselves and one another about the American Imperial Strategy and its consequences. Because, as we must see, WHAT IT REPRESENTS IS A FAILURE OF MORAL LEADERSHIP AND VISION. Moreover, this failure is not only an American failure, it is a human one. We have all been deceived. We are all victims. And now, as the bindings of illusion begin to fall away around us we must find the courage and moral convictions necessary to build a new VISION for what is humanly possible: A world of intelligent human beings which can use its resources to create a just world that values moral integrity.

Thank you for reading.

Beam Me Up


Notes (from Griffin's foot notes):



1) David North, ÒAmericaÕs Drive for World Domination,Ó in Bacevich, ed., The Imperial Tense, 66-77, at 66.

2) This document, which was signed in February 1997 by then USAF Commander in Chief Howell M. Estes III, was at one time available at www.spacecom.af.mil/usspace . This website is, however, no longer functional. Also, although the US military has a website devoted to "Joint Vision Historical Documents" (www.dtic.mil/jointvision/history.htm), the February 1997 document is not included. There is a document from May of that year entitled ÒConcept for Future Joint Operations,Ó which is subtitled "Expanding Joint Vision 2010." The website also has that previous document (Joint Vision 2010), which was published during the tenure of General John Shalikashvili as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (1993 to 1997). But it is as if the document from February 1997 never existed; perhaps it was later deemed too candid. However, at this writing it could still be found on the website of Peace Action Maine (http://www.peaceactionme.org/v-intro.html). And it was discussed in Jack Hitt, ÒThe Next Battlefield May Be in Outer Space,Ó The New York Times Magazine, August 5, 2001.

3) Air Force Space Command, ÒStrategic Master Plan FY06 and Beyond,Ó October 1, 2003 (www.peterson.af.mil/hqafspc/Library/Library.asp).

4) Quoted in Hitt, ÒThe Next Battlefield May Be in Outer Space

5) Rebuilding America's Defenses

6) This according to the Washington Post, Jan. 27, 2002

7) Department of Defense News Briefing on Pentagon Attack, quoted in The New Pearl Harbor, 100.



edit: punctuation






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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. When you add them all up, the result is very ugly...
I'm definitely beginning to believe that this theory of 9/11 is not so far-fetched anymore.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Slowly we are becoming 'disillusioned'. It takes time. No one wants to
believe something like this. We want to believe that we are part of the 'greatest nation on earth'. We want to believe that our government is, if not benevolent, at least benign in relation to its own citizens. But when one begins to see how the structures of power have operated unethical and immorally to enlist us in a "war on terror" with no end in sight; when one begins to see how brazenly corrupt this administration is; when one begins to pull together all the not only unanswered but unasked questions surrounding the events of 9/11--at some point one has to begin to seriously entertain matters that are under ordinary circumstances too frightening to contemplate.

Here is Michel Hasty on the matter:

...knowledge brings responsibility. If we acknowledge that an inner circle of ruling elites controls the world's most powerful military and intelligence system; controls the international banking system; controls the most effective and far-reaching propaganda network in history; controls all three branches of government in the world's only superpower; and controls the technology that counts the people's votes, we might be then forced to conclude that we don't live in a particularly democratic system. And then voting and making contributions and trying to stay informed wouldn't be enough. Because then the duty of citizenship would go beyond serving as a loyal opposition, to serving as a "loyal resistance"Ñlike the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War, except that in this case the resistance to fascism would be on the side of the national ideals, rather than the government; and a violent insurgency would not only play into the empire's hands, it would be doomed from the start.

Forming a nonviolent resistance movement, on the other hand, might mean forsaking some middle class comfort, and it would doubtless require a lot of work. It would mean educating ourselves and others about the nature of the truly apocalyptic beast we face. It would mean organizing at the most basic neighborhood level, face to face. (We cannot put our trust in the empire's technology.) It would mean reaching across turf lines and transcending single-issue politics, forming coalitions and sharing data and names and strategies, and applying energy at every level of government, local to global. It would also probably mean civil disobedience, at a time when the Bush regime is starting to classify that action as "terrorism." In the end, it may mean organizing a progressive confederacy to govern ourselves, just as our revolutionary founders formed the Continental Congress. It would mean being wise as serpents, and gentle as doves.

It would be a lot of work. It would also require critical mass. A paradigm shift.

Paranoid Shift
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tofubo Donating Member (229 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. what better way to find the shortcomings of your defenses than to
Edited on Sun Nov-13-05 03:10 PM by tofubo
lead a commission to find those shortcomings (and say your going to fix them)

http://cndyorks.gn.apc.org/yspace/articles/bmd/spacepearlharbor.htm

11 January 2001
Rumsfeld Commission Warns Against "Space Pearl Harbor"
"C2 Sim 00"
by Jean-Michel Stoullig
The Rumsfeld commission has warned the US is becoming increasingly vulnerable with a growing need for communication satellites, Global Positioning System equipment, along with its fleet of critical spy satellites.

Washington (AFP) Jan. 11, 2001 - Warning that the United States could face a "space Pearl Harbor," Defense Secretary-designate Donald Rumsfeld and a commission he formerly headed unveiled a report Thursday advocating tighter security for American space systems.


a new pearl harbor, now, where did we hear that before ?? hum ??

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Rumsfeld_Commission

Commission Members
Donald H. Rumsfeld, Chair
• Dr. Barry M. Blechman
• General George Lee Butler, U.S. Air Force (Ret.)
• Dr. Richard L. Garwin
• Dr. William R. Graham
• Dr. William Schneider, Jr.
• General Larry D. Welch, U.S. Air Force (Ret.)
Dr. Paul D. Wolfowitz
The Honorable R. James Woolsey, Jr.

Core Staff for the Commission
Dr. Steven A. Cambone
• Dr. Steven A. Maaranen
• Eric Desautels
• David H. Dunham
• Jason W. Roback
• Bernard C. Victory
• Delonnie Henry

addendum
the person who took over the commission when don 'just enought troops to loose' rumsfeld was 'tapped' to become vice president, err, defense(less) secretary: David E. Jeremiah

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1234
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks. Maybe people will listen after Plamegate.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. There wouldn't be much of an Anti-War movement if we were winning.
It's a hard thing to accept that your common ordinary average everyday American thinks it is perfectly acceptable, even honorable, to go to other people's countries and (at least help) kill them for some "great" cause.

This is not WWII.

"We" are Crazy.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. ""We" are Crazy." We are a humanity out of balance.
We have lost our way. The United States has a potential GREATNESS that shines through her ideals, ideals with which, I believe, the majority of people on this Earth can relate in some way. We all want Live, Liberty and the Pursuit of Hapiness, however we understand these things. And this is what Government was created to insure.

What happened? How is it that the wealthiest, most highly educated, most powerful among us lost sight of the greater good, not only for citizens of the United States, but all citizens in every nation around the world? How is it that those who we have intrusted with the power of governance have become so cynical about Democracy that they thwart it and use it only as a ruse to gain still more power--near absolute power?

I'm asking rhetorically, of course.

The fact of the matter is, all of us are called to live our most deeply held values--and this is where Dr. Griffin's call to "religious" people, people of moral value and vision, comes in.

It is up to US. We must assert ourselves, and the nobility of our vision. WE must grasp that true power, true strength, isn't in armaments, however poised, but in the strength of our convictions.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's the weirdest thing about it . . .
"We" really are "good" in so many ways, but to me that makes this imbalance seem even worse.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. We do not really know ourselves.
That was the Socratic imparative: Know Thyself.

We think we know so much but we really don't know much about ourselves at all. We become distracted by forms rather than looking for essences. Who am I in essence if not YOU? In essence, I say, not in personality, not if the form of the body, obviously. But, in essence, who are we but forms of life that have within us some elemental spark of consciousness, some thirst for truly esoteric things such as "knowledge" "truth", perhaps even "wisdom". This not to mention things such as "justice" "love" and so forth.

This all humanity shares at the most fundamental level.

I will add this: Anyone who exacerbates our superficial differences, who wants humanity to remain DIVIDED amongst themselves, especially those who PROFIT from such divisions, they need to be held accountable for their deceptions.

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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yes, hold THEM ALL accountable.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks Swamp Rat!
They might as well be Alien Lizards, all!

This is why I want so badly to be BEAMED UP already! Things aren't like this on the planet I come from.

On the planet I come from, there is no money. There is no greed. There is no want. There are no armies, no need for them. What there are are people engaged in creative pursuits, seeing to it that the needs of all are met. Science, inustry, religion, philsophy and art are all understood as parts of ONE LANGUAGE through which we come to understand OUR OWN NATURE and the nature of the universe of which we are apart. It is such a beautiful glistening planet, just like Earth. I miss home! :cry:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Just make sure you get on the right ship!!!
:o

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Funny thing about that UFO:


There is a parallel universe but you have to view the source.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Me too
But for the love of my brothers, I choose to leave here last.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I know what you mean. Sometimes I think that's why I'm here, too.
It's difficult, isn't it? We feel something inside, a calling to some 'higher' purpose than our ordinary life. And yet we have to live our lives, however 'ordinary' they may be. So, how can I be who and what I am and at the same time acknowledge this other purpose, this ennobling purpose? This, for me, is a living question.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Got a glimpse one time
In trying to find the answer to peace. I came to a point where I accepted everyone as myself no matter what religion, race nationality, whether good, bad, ugly or not. once I accepted everyone as my self, I got a freeing experience, at the same time as becoming everyone, I became no one at all, I guess it was a glimpse of loosing my identity.
This I know, God is what is, I am what is also, not this or that anymore. Peace
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Excellent insight!
I see we've been booted down to the 9/11 dungeon. You know how it is, all the embarrassments in the DU family they keep locked away so the neighbors don't see them.

How long before the whole box unravels, do you think? I'm picking away at every thread of the patchwork I can get my hands on.
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
28. I guess you and a few similar people here know about Bodhisattvas
already. (not sure of the spelling)

I read this thread because you had started it, so I am not at all surprised how it is turning out. ;-) Reading your posts always gives me a feeling of warmth and happiness.

I'm sure the quantum physics about parallel universes has a lot of truth in it, but that we are each of us in a separate one. That is, we are all one person, who, for a game to pass eternity perhaps, split the universe into a multiverse, so he/she could live out a different story in each one, just as we too love stories as entertainment.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. By Jove, I think you've got it.
:hi:

Had no idea this thread was still kicking around.

We're all in this together. The question I have is, how do we get the monsters to 'get it': what they do unto others, they do unto themselves.
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. BMU, I'm sure you are a person who loves books.
How much would you enjoy a novel if there were no "baddies" in it?
Perhaps that is why we lost our memory as to how we started this whole shebang, because remembering that would mean we knew the ending, and that would spoil the whole story?

So enjoy struggling against the bad guys, and helping people to live their lives better, because that is the kind of story that aspects such as you and I want to be living. But don't resent the bad guys in your heart, they have their purpose, as our stories would be boring without them, and we would not have the opportunities for growth that struggle brings.

Sometimes I see god as one of those spinning disco-balls made of glass facets. And we are each a facet looking outwards, seeing our apartness, our aloneness, and finding no sign of god as time spins past. And so much of what we believe to be our own personality is no more than a reflection of what we are currently spinning past.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I understand what you are saying but have a slightly different perspective
I have to ask, why is a struggle between 'good' and 'evil' and all that goes along with it "exciting" to my emotions? Of course I'm not asking the question from a scientific point of view, or even a sociological point of view. I'm asking from a "spiritual" point of view--that being defined as "conscious": from the point of view of how it is that I am, or am not, "conscious" in any given moment.

I'm not saying I have the answer, only that I have this question. In my best moments what I've seen is that in my ordinary state I lack a connection with something I've come to call "a sense of the sacred." What I mean by this word "sacred" is difficult for me to put into words. I call it a "sense" because when it is present it seems to me to be every bit as real as, say, my sense of sight or hearing. I "see" with new eyes, "hear" with new ears, "feel" with new feelings that the world in which I exist, every part of it including myself within it, is imbued with a quality of transcendence. The kind of 'I am That' awareness we've been speaking about up thread. Perhaps it is a sense, like seeing and hearing, only it is not yet fully developed in us.

This awareness of the transcendent, this "sense of the sacred" is not boring but it so completely different from "excitement". Perhaps an analogy would be looking at a beautiful sunset. I'm thinking of the kind of sunset where one's attention is arrested and one gazes into it with a kind of wonder--even though one may have gazed into sunsets thousands of times before. One is arrested by the sight of this, whether it be a sunset or a mountain top in the clouds, an orchid, or a child playing or it could come in an ordinary moment--washing the dishes or sweeping the floor. Something changes in *me* and the world appears as if new.

I'm also reminded of Krisna's profoundly worded admonition in the Upanishads to Arjuna to fight--despite his apparent pacifism-- to do his duty. That is, to restore order. What is difficult for us is to understand that the ignorance and disorder we see in the world is not just 'out there': it is within ourselves. We can not restore it 'out there' without simultaneously restoring it 'in here'.

There are more questions than answers here.
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dbeach Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. nice sentiment
'"Mans search for meaning"

acting and behaving with dignity and love during the greatest of tragedys..
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northamericancitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Thank you for sharing. Now I understand your name. nt
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I have that same "sense" too...can't explain it, its almost on a cellular
level, I feel it that strongly inside....I often have a feeling of "deja vu" and that I've been through all this before..

I'm a stay home mommy of Pachababies, busy w/ kids, school, diapers, etc, yet I know that I have a higher purpose in life: to raise my kids to be good people who will be prepared for the future....I also need to protect them and get them there safely...

Ever see the movie "The Highlander"? In it is "The Gathering"...I believe that in a very similar way, the "Gathering" is taking place of those who on a concioussness level and awareness of what is going on....

:hi:
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Hi Pachamama!
We are more than we seem to ourselves, I suspect, but not in the arena of the ego. I can't explain what I mean by that, it is just something I feel. We truly do not know who and what we are or what we are capable of.

I have great hope for humanity, all evidence to the contrary (if you know what I mean). The question always is, how can I be more conscious in my living?

I've never been a parent so I'm not one to speak of parenting from any experience. However, I grew up in a world where I was not seen. Like the protagonist in the movie "Stand By Me," I was "the invisible boy." But, of course, that isn't exactly true. They saw my body, they saw my personality. What did they NOT see? --I've come to call it 'essence'. It is that with which we come into the world, not what forms after we are here. It is my contention that the most effective way to educate and nurture young people is to look for this 'essence' in them, recognize it, and, however possible, reflect it back to them. Acknowledge it. It is important that we feel 'seen' on some deep level. This is more than 'recognition' in the ordinary sense.

Strange that this posting has gone in this particular direction.

Thank you Pachaama for being a parent--something I never felt selfless or confident or courageous enough to do.

:hi:
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Hi Beam me up! :)
Thanks for the awknowledgment to parenthood....it is defintitely the most challenging experience of my life....It is difficult, requires great patience and at times can be very frustrating and lonely and yet it is by far the greatest thing I've ever done...

PS: It's not strange at all that this posting of yours went into this direction....in many ways, it ties in very directly to the excellent summary and points you made about what is going on in our country and the direction of the country. I think that too many humans in this country, on this planet, have become consumed as consumers and greed and the superficial have replaced the most important and essential things, like love and being "present". People are so "busy" that they don't realize what the truly most important things going on are around them. As my daughters' kindergarten teacher said to me today in a conversation we had about parenting - There is no difference between a Mom in Oakland who isn't present for her kid because she's doing Crack or a Mom in Ross who isn't present for her kid because she's getting a massage and pedicure....the bottom line is neither is there for the child. I state that because I think so many people are "lost" and they don't see the most important things around them and their priorities are so way off. It's not any different about the state of our country and world. If people are ignoring what is happening to their environment, their government etc. then its being neglected and there will be consequences.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yes, I think that is exactly what is happening. One of the things I'm
trying to learn to balance is all the different focuses of my life. I spend a LOT of time reading here on DU--possibly way to much time (at times difficult to say). But I am learning so much and, of course, it is all very interesting. Still, I have my life, my job, and my art. The latter is more important to me than the job, except that the job makes more money than the art so I have to give it attention to keep everything else going. Then again, I have to put some focused attention toward the art, too, or I become so unbalanced I can't accomplish anything, either in work or politics or anything else. I'll add to this that I have my own 'spiritual' practice (such as it is), too, and that deserves time and attention as well. That is a lot for one human being! I'm sure, being a parent, you can relate.

This question of 'presence' and having some sense of 'values' that isn't based on $ or some imagined 'status' or apprehension of what the neighbors or boss or whomever, will think--this is very important. I don't know that I have a lot to say about it other than to acknowledge what you are saying.

Best to you and good luck w/ you parenting! How do you balance your political awareness with that?
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. How I do it: No sleep and I post in the wee hours of the night when the
Pachababies and Pachapapa sleep away... :boring:

But while I try to "balance" things, its always busy and ofcourse having two small children who are 1 and 5 is no easy task. Staying abreast of the events going on in the world can be a full time job in itself (excellent job btw in pulling together the info and summarizing it in this post! I enjoyed seeing Dr. Ray Griffin's speech....)

Your art by the way is beautiful...I went to your website link....

:hi:
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Sparkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Gov was not as you say, created for it's masses, but for it's elite's safe
state of domination. This requires, like religion, the masses to obey rules set up to protect the priveledged who get the cream, don't work hard unless they want to, and call the shots with immunity.
1. Wealth begets more wealth.
2. Inheritance of property requires law abiding to not ransack the estate after the lion in winter, finally dies.
3. Safe passage through the cities to obtain goods & services
4. Offspring entitlement to all companies, properties.
5. Aristocracy based upon wealth AND birth.
imo
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pox americana Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
21. Yes, it was a disgraceful scam
and when you get down to brass tacks, a privatization scheme, at least in NYC, with lots of other evil nonsense tacked on.

80s-style predatory capitalism run amok, brought to you by our unelected MBA-in-chief.
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Make7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
22. One small correction:
From original post:
In front of television cameras, Rumsfeld berated Senator Carl Levin, then chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, saying:

Senator Levin, you and other Democrats in Congress have voiced fear that you simply don’t have enough money for the large increase in defense that the Pentagon is seeking, especially for missile defense. . . . Does this sort of thing convince you that an emergency exists in this country to increase defense spending . . . ?

This strategy worked. Congress immediately appropriated an additional $40 billion for the Pentagon. Since then, furthermore, the president has gotten every additional appropriation he has sought for the so-called war on terror.

http://www.911citizenswatch.org/

The problem with that passage is that Rumsfeld is not the one who asked that question. Here is part of the transcript for that press briefing:

Q: Mr. Secretary, there were rumors earlier in the day that the plane which crashed in Pennsylvania had been brought down by the United States, either shot down or in some other manner.

Rumsfeld: We have absolutely no information that any U.S. aircraft shot down any other aircraft today.

Q: I wonder if we could just ask Senator Levin one thing, Senator, if that's all right.

Levin: You bet.

Q: Senator Levin, you and other Democrats in Congress have voiced fear that you simply don't have enough money for the large increase in defense that the Pentagon is seeking, especially for missile defense, and you fear that you'll have to dip into the Social Security funds to pay for it. Does this sort of thing convince you that an emergency exists in this country to increase defense spending, to dip into Social Security, if necessary, to pay for defense spending -- increase defense spending?

Levin: One thing where the committee was unanimous on, among many, many other things, was that the -- we authorized the full request of the President, including the $18 billion. So I would say that Democrats and Republicans have seen the need for the request.

Q: Mr. Secretary, could you describe what steps are being taken -- defensive measures -- beyond force protection, and whether there's been any operational planning for homeland defense and as to --

Rumsfeld: Those aren't the kinds of things that one discusses.

http://www.defenselink.mil/

-Make7
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. thanks for this, Make7. I wonder if DRG knows? I'll try to make sure he
finds out.

BMU
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sandboxface Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
27. Excellent work, Beem Me
I think we should get on to those videos ASAP!
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MellowOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
32. I knew from the day it happened it was an inside job
Reading in here confirms it over and over. Thanks for all the great info.
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