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What would be the public response if MIHOP was proven?

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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:06 PM
Original message
What would be the public response if MIHOP was proven?
I'm not one who believes that Bush actually orchestrated 9/11 - I think he just knew in advance and let it happen. But what do you think would happen if it turned out that he did do it and it was revealed for the whole world to see? What do you think the "do whatever King George says because 9/11 changed everything" cultists would do?
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Road Scholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Swear it was't so. nt
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pocket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. hopefully it would be mass suicide
.
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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. They'd be proud
Remember, death and destruction gives these people hard ons
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corbett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
75. Now, There's A Thought
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
90. heh heh heh.nt
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. The BushBots would deny it if is was on film introduced by Jesus Christ.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
69. But what if Cheney himself confessed?
Right-wingers, especially those who fancy themselves as realists and intellectuals, would find excuses - it was geopolitically savvy, it had to be done to save America, otherwise the people would have never understood the terrorist threat in time, it was a favor to us, a necessary sacrifice, really, and who are we little people to question these big things? They know more and better than we do, etc.

But what about the left wing?

Well, Chip Berlet, David Corn and Indymedia would rush out to deny it, pointing out that Cheney is a right-wing conspiracy theorist who has lied many times.

DU would banish all those who linked to Cheney's confession to the conspiracy dungeon of this 911 forum.

Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and Lieberman would ignore it altogether and urge the administration to hurry up and prosecute a vigorous war on terror.

Media pundits would refuse to talk about it, telling those who urge them to do so that it is, after all, "old news."

Everyone knew it was an inside job - why bother stirring it up now? A lot of 9/11 skeptics would agree, complaining that they after all had been saying this for years and in the meantime moved on to (peak oil, macrame, whatever) and so the revelation now was kind of irrelevant.

Certain 9/11 skeptics would complain that Cheney's confession of orchestrating 9/11 on behalf of a cronies' association was just a limited hangout, covering up the role of (take your pick among NWO, world banking, Zionists, etc.) and paving the way for one-world government by (Jimmy Carter, Hillary Clinton, Nelson Mandela, etc.)

Geraldo Rivera would ask, yes, but what about Natalie Holloway, missing since...?

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LisaLynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. For some, I don't think it could ever be proven to the point ...
that they would believe. Some would have to convince themselves that it's all Clinton and the Liberal Press' fault and that Saint George the Evil is completely innocent.
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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. Seems most of them think
that Saddam Hussen and Bill Clinton personally piloted all 4 planes that day and that the magical Clenis teleported them out of the planes just before impact
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. Saddam Hussen & Bill Clinton shared a BJ
Edited on Fri Feb-10-06 04:43 PM by serryjw
on Brokeback Mountain would have a better chance than the Bushbots believing MIHOP. IMHO, the evidence is overwhelming and they think we are all CT's. Short of Bushit & CO admitting it, they would never believe it.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. Based on what I've seen thus far, the media would spin it as being a
defensive move somehow, the public would buy it and think there was a perfectly logical reason for it.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. bush got in front of cameras and said he was breaking laws
and would continue breaking them. Too many people cheered. I don't know that we can reach some of them at all.
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Wouldn't believe it. nt
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:18 PM
Original message
Tar, feathers, rails, shotguns, rope, and gasoline
Realistically? All hell would break loose. Bush and his cronies would be in police protective custody within minutes. The GOP would disband. The USA would be sued as an entity by everyone who lost a loved one, a business partner, or $20 in the 9-11 atrocities. The DJIA stock exchange would lose close to 50% of its value before they could close it. Oil would got to $200/bbl for sweet light Brent crude. The oceans would freeze and the clouds would turn bright orange. Jesus would return in the clouds, and He would be a Japanese Sumo wrestler. Spaghetti would be dyed green by law and declared a vegetable. The lion would lay down with the lamb, but the lamb would need a new Ambien prescription. Monkeys would fly out of my ass, and chickens would dance the Macarena on my ceiling. The Dollar would be debased, our new currency would be day-glo pink, bear portraits of dead stand-up comedians, and be called "The Shecky".

No, wait. It would be worse.

--p!
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
29. ROTFLMAO !!!
I wanna hear the 'worse' now!
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
30. Chickens dance . . .
. . . on your ceiling too?
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. We had to have the attack, so we could move America forward.
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. They'd probably decide it was a necessary evil
Rove would trot bushco out to say that the evil doers were planning something even more nefarious if they didn't do something to wake people up and alert them to the dangers of terra...

The idiots on cable would have experts on to validate Rove and the polls on AOL would read 47% approve of MIHOP and 53% do not...

I have given up on the American people--I think we are one big nation of Terri Schiavos (no wonder the right was so attached to her plight -- they're living it!)
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. Propaganda is the language by which they speak...
they will never let facts get in the way of a good sales pitch...
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McKenzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. I've often thought about that
and never sussed how people would react. I'm no psychologist but my feeling is that people would find reasons to either dismiss the notion or somehow justify it as "necessary". I say this because once one accepts something is wrong one has to either confront it or ignore it. Human nature tends to avoid unpleasantness so it's likely - and I'm only guessing - that there would be a desperate attempt to find reasons for denying the facts or arguing that the government was acting for the "right" reasons.

The fact that people still avoid asking awkward questions suggests they aren't able, mentally, to come to terms with LIHOP or MIHOP. Once one considers the possibility that innocent people were killed for politics the world gets turned upside down. The inexplicable failure to defend Pentagon airspace, and the fact that commercial airliners even penetrated NORAD-protected airspace in the first place, needs to be answered, for example.
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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. Do you really think the media is that committed to protecting Bush?
I don't like to think do, but the first time I ever paid attention to politics was before election 2000 and without knowing about or having any opinion about either Bush or Gore, I thought it seemed like the media wanted Bush to win.
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1620rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Yes the media is that committed, to protecting *...
...it's what they are paid to do. And yes the American people are so stupid and so mesmerized by * that they would find some way to rationalize MIHOP :banghead:
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
49. MSM owners protect their own: the corporatists, of which * is one
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
15. Filed next to the folder marked "Single Bullet Theory" n/t
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. NOW, that is the perfect answer
Over 40 years later people believe that propaganda
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
91. how depressing.nt
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. They would attack it as a vast Lefty conspiracy to make Dear
Leader look bad. At least that 30% that are beyond talking any type of reason to, those who twist themselves up in pretzels trying to justify and protect their Prez.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. sticks fingers in ears and screams
"I can't hear you"
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
19. Rioting... Those who believe will be chasing **co down and we'll
be chased after by the believers-to-the-end-**istas.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
20. dumbya is just plain too stupid to orchestrate anything
his evil father on the other hand...
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Nah....Not his father
but certainly the CIA/FBI/NSA. HIS father was smart enough not to go into Baghdad.It's a shame the whole planet has to see idiot son
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. umm...his father IS/WAS the CIA for a long, long time...
Poppy was all over the birth and arming of the mujhadeen...HE has the contacts...HIS son needed something to save his presidency, and poppy has no soul.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. IF it were proven, probably denial.
Edited on Fri Feb-10-06 04:43 PM by sparosnare
A lot of people, especially those firmly entrenched in the Bush camp, would refuse to believe it even with evidence. They may come around eventually, and if they do, they'll probably be even angrier than the rest of us. Those who've wondered all along will feel justified more than anything.
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. Bush would claim 911 never happened
and the press would confirm that it's all in our imagination.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
25. All hell would break loose and
the evil doers-the BFEE-would be up a creek without a paddle. :D

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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
26. My prediction is:
Edited on Fri Feb-10-06 04:52 PM by file83
1. Nuclear "terrorist" attack on US soil in major population center, possibly multiple cities (like 9/11)
2. Enactment of National Federal Martial Law, curfews, checkpoints.
3. Immediate suspension of Constitution/Bill of Rights.
4. Mass arrests of "suspected terrorist sympathizers" (read: political dissenters)
5. Utilization of regional 1 million person "detention centers".
6. International Coalition of "Peace Keeping Forces" patrol on US soil (Dutch, Spanish, French, Mexican)
7. Involuntary military draft for all ages 18-34.
8. War with Iran/Syria begins, WWIII follows shortly after.

Just like that. Boom. Boom. Boom, right down the list. So, to answer your question, basically the end of America. But it won't take a revelation of MIHOP to make this stuff happen - I'm convinced they are just waiting for the right moment to begin the "End Times".

I. Hope. I'm. Wrong. :tinfoilhat:
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
61. excellent avatar
i have now stolen it from you
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #61
71. Just so you know....that's a custom avatar - made by yours truly. Enjoy!
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #71
80. i figured as much, thanks
:toast:
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #26
86. I hope your wrong BUT I think your 100% right...
Its all a matter of time. What date has the most significance? 3/11 is taken, 4/11 is information. Some said
June 6 (6/6/6) H'm..The Iranian Oil Bourse opens March 26 and all financial hell will break loose. Still
your summary of events are SCARY...
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. MIHOP essentially has been proven. American denial allows the myth
to continue to dig our grave and build a totalitarian state of ruthless individuals who know nothing but consumption of countries and resourses that belong to everyone else.

As long as we deny what is before our eyes and keep giving to the liars and corrupt individuals who keep telling us lies, they will continue to take what is ours and make us pay for it.

Its simple. Cowardice and denial will reap us nothing.

It will reap them everything.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #27
42. well, I don't know that MIHOP has been proven . . .
although I'm certainly in that camp . . . what's been proven so far is what DID NOT happen, i.e. the "official" story is impossible . . . what DID happen has yet to be determined through proper investigation . . .

one thing is certainly clear, however . . . if 9/11 wasn't planned and carried out by BushCo (MIHOP), they certainly facilitated it (FIHOP, which is a step above the passive LIHOP) . . .
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #42
57. At the very least ...
... it's clear that the towers came down as a result of controlled demolition. None of the other explanations makes any sense. They all defy the laws of physics. The only explanation that explains what actually happened is controlled demolition. More on that HERE.

So, if it was a controlled demolition, it was definitely MIHOP by some well-placed group of people. But who? That's another question. It certainly was not Al Queda.

-Laelth
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #57
83. you're right, of course . . . those towers didn't fall . . .
they literally dissolved, right before our eyes . . . and looking at the construction photos of the central core, you'd understand how impossible it is that it was the planes that caused it . . .

what happened on 9/11 is THE single most important issue that supersedes all others . . . because (a) it was an inside job, and (b) it has been used by BushCo to justify their entire agenda . . . oh, and it also happens that it constitute mass murder and treason . . .
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Q3JR4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
31. Just move along, there's nothing to see here. n/t.
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
32. I like this question...
And I agree with your belief that * didn't orchestrate 9/11, and that he/they allowed it to happen. It suited their purposes, they needed an event like that as the catalyst anyway. They had waaay too much warning that something was coming to be able to claim ignorance now.

What we - america, anyway, - would do if MIHOP OR LIHOP was proved?

I think that would be something that would get coverage in the media, it would get Congressional hearings, and it would mean impeachment at the least. We're already at about 52% favoring impeachment now if I remember the latest polling number on that; this would be so much bigger news than anything else we've ever seen.

It would bring people out into the streets in a way never before seen. People marching on DC. People would be calling, faxing, emailing their Congresspersons so much it would crash the systems, daily. It would be seen as the ultimate outrageous treasonous act...and it could not be squirmed out of, no matter how hard they tried. What would they say? We did it for your own good?

He'd lose his following, in this particular scenario I think he would bottom out at about 9 - 14%; some of the people are never going to learn. It would most likely destroy the Repuke party, maybe for a generation, maybe permanently.



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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. I agree that they knew about the plan...
just from the look on my pet goat's face. If that is the case, then LIHOP = MIHOP - IMHOP. If it's ever proven, that will be the end result. An amoral, narcissistic psychopath is NOT the same as a great president. OR emperor.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
65. we'd also finally have the healing we need so desperately about 9/11 -
America has a huge gaping wound from 9/11. Having the truth come out I belive would bring a huge sense of relief that the real boogie men are being brought to justice. It would also force a huge history lesson for every American on how this could happen here. The media would be completely torn apart too - that is if it ever came out.
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kcass1954 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
33. We can't get them to believe election fraud occurred, even with mountains
of evidence. They'll never buy this.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
34. Why does MIHOP = "Bush" did it? I disagree w/ that equation.
MIHOP is more comprehensible if we understand that at least some of the perpetrators are embedded in the national security state apparatus. Names such as Cheney, Rumsfeld, Eberhart and Myers come to mind as people who would had to have known IF 9/11 were an inside job. Cheney and Rumsfeld in particular have been imbedded in national security chains of command and communication off and on for over 20 years.

Bush? Nada. He didn't HAVE to know. So, who knows what he did or didn't know on that day.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. right
I wouldn't give Chimpy that much credit either, ie. to be able to 'orchestrate' anything.
Chimpy = LIHOP. Others = MIHOP possibly (they certainly are wicked enough to have done it).

I've studied social psychology and am interested in hypothetical questions such as this. There are extremely diverse answers in this thread--to this question of 'what would people do.' Theories range from predictions of total denial to total rebellion. You know, when people collectively surrender to a dominant exploitative paradigm, they go through a whole range of emotions before they will relinquish that inappropriate bond and break through to a higher level of acceptance. My guess is that any change resulting from such a revelation of MIHOP would happen gradually and not as dramatically as one would think. But the bonds of public trust are eroding the longer the Bush regime is in power anyway. There is no way the Republicans can "fix" that loss of trust through any kind of spin or propaganda. We are heading toward a great divide--between Americans with some integrity left and those with none. This is the real moral dilemma of our times.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
67. Interesting post. I saw some of that "range of emotions" from gwb
Edited on Sat Feb-11-06 01:28 PM by BleedingHeartPatriot
supporters during the days after Katrina. Sadly, they did not renounce him entirely, although there is certainly less wholehearted endorsement of him than before Katrina.

The supporters I know personally seem to be treating him as their favorite football team during a game. (as a Bronco fan, an easy analogy for me :) )

Even if he's behind 35-0 at the half, and continues to blow plays and allow the opponent to score, they keep cheering him on, because they want so much for him to win and to keep the victory away from his(their)opponents.(us)

And, I agree, it seems to be coming down to those who want to see the right thing done, for the country and the world and those who want for only themselves and operate from their own self promoting agendas.

A moral dilemma indeed. MKJ
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. You're right; he is their very willing puppet
a front man picked due to his "charm" and "plainspokeness"
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. And the fact he doesn't read and lacks any subtlety of thought.
For Bush--and the people to whom his persona appeals--everything is either "right" or "wrong" or "black" or "white". You are either with him or against him. He isn't overly B R I T E and has a history of substance abuse. He probably even believes he WON the last two elections! Perfect pResident for the evil that lurks within the halls of the "secret government" or whatever you want to call it.
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #39
46. I'll tell you what chimpy knew. He knew that there would be a
Edited on Sat Feb-11-06 01:42 AM by Solomon
"traditional" hijacking. That's what they told him would happen. He would become a hero because with only boxcutters, the hijackers would only be able to kill a few people before swat teams stormed the landed planes.

There was a twist to the plot, however, a double-cross. That's why Bush sat there looking stupid in that classroom. It took him a while to connect some dots. He didn't connect the hijacking plot with the plane that smashed into the trade center until the second plane hit. That's when he must have realized that he had just been played.

Go back and look at the video. The look on his face says it all. He knew he had been played.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. You could be right. The fact that he was ON CAMERA *and* that he no longer
knew for certain who he could trust. A truly witless wonder.
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. Go back to that time and look at what condaleeza rice said.
She said: "we thought there would be a traditional hijacking. No one could have imagined they would use the hijacked planes as missiles."

That statement was a boldfaced lie. It was at that point that I knew. She spilled the beans with that statement. The people in her circle, Bush included, were told that it would be a regular hijacking.

When the doublecross happened, it was probably spun to them that somehow the terrorists got intel about the operation and went further.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Yes. I remember that quite vividly. 9/11 was designed to drive policy
both domestic and foreign and it has worked. The question is, how much did Bush* know and I have always suspected he didn't know very much. But, yes, they were expecting something. One question I've always had is, did he or didn't he see the first plane hit (as he said he did at least twice publicly). It is not impossible but it would had to have been a closed circuit narrow cast over top secret communications systems inside the presidential limousine on his way to the school if he did.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #46
53. I like the way you think, Solomon. Your handle is well chosen.
You may be onto something there. It makes so much sense.
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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
37. whats sad is that i thought this was a Katrina thread
whats have these bastards not destroyed?
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Spike from MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
41. Nothing. The media here would never report it
so the vast majority of Americans would continue to remain oblivious to it. Any Americans that try to broach the subject will be declared "terrorists" and placed in the shiny new detention camps that Halliburton is building for them.

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SeveneightyWhoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
43. They'd say, "Well, 9/11 started our War on Terror...
..which needed to be fought, so thank God Bush did what he did. If he didn't take such bold action, Saddam and Osama would still be in power!"
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
44. ...locked in cattle cars...
this sort of news would cause martial law...
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
45. there are actually four critical issues that Americans don't want . . .
to hear the truth about:

1. what really happened on 9/11 -- and who did it

2. that elections were actually stolen

3. the real reasons for the Iraq war, and

4. the true state of our economy

this presents a dilemma for Democrats committed to telling the truth . . . since the truth about these four issues is SO traumatic, most people just don't want to hear it, and will deny it despite overwhelming evidence . . . they don't want to deal with the kinds of national crises that the truth about 9/11, election fraud, the Iraq war, and the economy will undboubtedly initiate, so they'd just prefer to deny what the truth is . . .

but another truth is that we can't fix problems if we aren't truthful about defining them and honest about their causes . . . truth is an absolute prerequisite to real progress, and as long as Americans reject it because it upsets their comfort levels, it's going to be very difficult to overcome them and move in a positive direction . . .
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. Exactly right, OBS. "truth is an absolute prerequisite to real progress"
Who are the REAL enemies of Democracy? I've always liked what Michael Hasty had to say on these matters:

...knowledge brings responsibility. If we acknowledge that an inner circle of ruling elites controls the world's most powerful military and intelligence system; controls the international banking system; controls the most effective and far-reaching propaganda network in history; controls all three branches of government in the world's only superpower; and controls the technology that counts the people's votes, we might be then forced to conclude that we don't live in a particularly democratic system. And then voting and making contributions and trying to stay informed wouldn't be enough. Because then the duty of citizenship would go beyond serving as a loyal opposition, to serving as a "loyal resistance"—like the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War, except that in this case the resistance to fascism would be on the side of the national ideals, rather than the government; and a violent insurgency would not only play into the empire's hands, it would be doomed from the start.

Forming a nonviolent resistance movement, on the other hand, might mean forsaking some middle class comfort, and it would doubtless require a lot of work. It would mean educating ourselves and others about the nature of the truly apocalyptic beast we face. It would mean organizing at the most basic neighborhood level, face to face. (We cannot put our trust in the empire's technology.) It would mean reaching across turf lines and transcending single-issue politics, forming coalitions and sharing data and names and strategies, and applying energy at every level of government, local to global. It would also probably mean civil disobedience, at a time when the Bush regime is starting to classify that action as "terrorism." In the end, it may mean organizing a progressive confederacy to govern ourselves, just as our revolutionary founders formed the Continental Congress. It would mean being wise as serpents, and gentle as doves.

It would be a lot of work. It would also require critical mass. A paradigm shift.

Paranoid Shift
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Bushwick Bill Donating Member (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #45
59. Bingo.
The Democratic Party, Like The Republican Party and The Media, Covered Up The Deep Complicity In The 9/11/01 Attack By Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Myers
By John B. Massen, Guest Writer — Summary Analysis


<snip>

Why does the principal opposition party join the ruling party in covering up what are probably the worst presidential crimes in U.S. history? In response to my request for his evaluation of my report (cited above), Michael C. Ruppert, on 1/1/2004, provided an astute evaluation of how Congress operates:

"The flaw in your work is not in the legal foundation or in the way the evidence is presented, in your basic assumption that the system functions and operates as you think it should or the way it is described in textbooks. History is replete with instances of impeachable or prosecutable conduct which are much better documented, more easily proven, and more glaring than what you have described."

"In Watergate, there was an abundance of evidence that Richard Nixon had committed offenses far greater than the one which brought him to the brink of impeachment—obstruction of justice. The issue was not what offense would be used to remove him, but (as far as Congress was concerned) finding an offense which could remove a sitting president without destroying the entire American system of government. The same question governs Congressional response to 9/11," Ruppert wrote.

Ruppert went on to write, "The entire system is corrupt. Those who participate in it rationalize— in order to protect their seat at a crap table— that when one player gets out of line the primary objective is to protect the crap game. (I thank Peter Dale Scott for this analogy). I can guarantee you that many members of Congress are aware of every detail you have documented, and much, much more. . . To impeach Bush et al on the grounds you have delineated would open a can of worms that would call into question the legitimacy of the entire government. That will never be permitted.

http://www.projectcensored.org/newsflash/unanswered_questions_911.html

Good gatekeeping review here.
http://www.oilempire.us/gatekeepers.html
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
48. 30% of Murkans would wonder, in DU posts, why nothing was being done
30% of Murkans would immediately begin inventing reasons why that was a good thing

40% would remain ignorant

same as it ever was

same as it ever was
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
50. several more levels of denial
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
51. Such proof would be spun into nonexistence.
When Bush admits on camera to violating the FISA restrictions after lying about it on camera, promises on camera to keep doing so, and isn't impeached, the fix is in.

He's lied, cheated, stolen and killed. He can do anything he wants unless and until enough of his cronies are indicted and convicted that America's cognitive dissonance is beaten into submission, and his political capital is thereby lost.

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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
55. Public Response = YAWN. They probably deserved it.
Which is pretty much the response to everything else these criminals do.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
58. 'Did you see "American Idol" last night?'
The sheeple wouldn't give it a second thought.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
60. insurrection
bloody violent revolution.

Then, after a week of bloodletting, a palace coup.
A martial law government and another fight to restore democracy to the republic.

Eventually, a secession and two seperate, highly balkanized countries. One of them would be a virtual theocracy, the other, a social democrat parlementary goverment.

Guess which one I would live in, given a choice?
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DarleenMB Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
62. WTF
does MIHOP mean? I can't be the only one reading these boards who doesn't get HALF the acronyms you all use like alphabet soup.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Make It Happen On Purpose
9-11 that is

there's also Let It Happen On Purpose (LIHOP)

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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
64. they would say, "he had his reasons"
they would support him because they do not really care abt 911, they care only abt their pocketbook, and caligula has been v. good for war profiteering and energy stocks

do you really think they give one tiny damn abt bring osama bin laden to justice? without 911, and the war, halliburton would be bankrupt because of asbestos claims, many rich people would have nothing!

in the end people believe what they feel puts the most money in their pockets, only poor and lower middle class people have the luxury of nothing to lose and hence the luxury of morals
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
66. I think the whole world already knows
or at least has a pretty good idea. You'd be surprised at what they're saying in the foreign press.

Here of course we swear by all the lies the New York Times sees fit to print.
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SupplyConcerns Donating Member (305 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
68. Remember the JFK assasination?
I don't being 21, but from what I've read and seen, that was CLEARLY an inside job, with elements of the government cooperating to have Kennedy killed. But did people take to streets and demand blood? A 2003 ABC poll said that 2/3rds of Americans believe there was a conspiracy in his death (albiet not neccesarily a governmental coup situation), but it's not the kind of thing that people seem to have really assimilated. My dad, for example, believes in a JFK conspiracy, but he's a Bush supporter, despite evidence linking Bush 41 to the extermination of JFK.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #68
81. remember the MLK assasination
Jury rules King assassination a conspiracy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x386618

here's more on JFK:
The Bush family, the Cuban mafia and the Kennedy assassination
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x345011
(contains links to a very interesting independent docu on the matter - maybe it will convince your father that the Bush family is not the one that should be supported)
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Marleyb Donating Member (736 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
70. They would get really angry at whoever told them the truth
at least that is what has been happening.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
72. I haven't seen any proof of MIHOP but
it's interesting to speculate on what the response would be if such a thing were proven to be true. I'm guessing that blame would be placed on as small a group of people as possible followed by impeachment, conviction, possibly execution, and replacement by others on the same team. Everyone would wail about "how could it happen here" and then we'd all go back to more of the same. Wingnuts would then spend all of their free time saying people were framed and trying to find a way to blame it on Clinton.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
73. The people would begin to realize why nothing can be proven.
to your real question:
The punishment would not be satisfactory.
People would deem themselves complicit, having voted for him, having not thwarted his ascention.

People would tire of the work needed to punish him, weary of their uncertainty and nagging complicity.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-11-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
74. "I think he just knew in advance and let it happen"
Ok - so that would be aiding and abetting felony murder. Oh, and it would qualify as terrorism resulting in murder which I believe is a capital federal offense.

Michael Moore showed everyone who cared to watch that this is pretty much what happened. Everyone, for some value of everyone, blinked and turned the channel to 'Dirty Dancing with the stars' or 'Celebrity Fat Farm' or '24 Hours of Torture' or 'Horny Hot Housewives'. Everyone can't process the data. Everyone had a fear induced lobotomy after 9-11.

Until there is no choice about dealing with what is happening, until there is a draft and the casualties are in the hundreds per week, until there is real economic collapse perhaps due to the peak oil crisis perhaps due to federal debt implosion perhaps due to both, until we can't ignore what has happened any longer, we will do just that.

Sleep everyman, sleep in your car, on your tv couch, with your ipod, in front of your pc on the internet. Sleep. Soon you will have to wake up. Soon it will the terrible morning of the new reality. Dream well while you can.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
76. duck and hide,
i imagine - or gw would declare martial law and send the military after normal citizens who dare to speak the truth
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
77. the NYC firefighters will tear his ass right out of his chair in the Oval
office and tar and feather the Cretin in Chief if that's ever proved. Count on it.
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Talismom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
78. I'm picturing the scene in "Frankenstein" with the townsfolk and their
torches and pitchforks. I'd just like to think of the neocons tossing and turning and the thought of it all. What a beautiful thought!
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
79. They could join him in exile
While he fights extradition from Saudi Arabia.
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Gelliebeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
82. he would start a war with Iran
when all else fails for the asshole in chief, he just starts another war :shrug:
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martymartin Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
84. A Doctor's puzzlement -
A Doctor’s puzzlement -

Most people remember what they were doing on the day of September 11. On that day, I was working as a medical director for the U.S. Postal Service. I remember walking in to the lunch room at the main post office in CITY DELETED and everybody was watching the television set. Nobody was eating. Then I asked somebody what was going on. And I watched for few minutes, then went to my office and did my work for the day and didn’t think too much about it.

The next day, I had lunch with my boss and he said “they know the guy who did it. It was Osama bin Laden.” And I thought, that’s great they already figured out who the criminal is behind this and now they’re going to go catch him.

And I didn’t think too much more about it.

Then, a month later, all hell broke loose at the post office. This was because of the anthrax letters. I spent most of my time for the next several months focused on this because I was in charge of handling all of the telephone calls about anthrax questions from postal workers in much of the country. Several postal workers died because of the anthrax letters, so we were very worried.

I talked to a lot of people, and I gave lectures to educate the workers and managers. I met with the postal inspectors and with public health officials and with the FBI, and we participated in evacuation exercises.

So I became a kind of an expert about anthrax. I would tell people that they didn’t have to worry because they were only a few letters that were mailed in the whole United States, and the kind of dangerous anthrax that was sent was very, very special. This was called “weaponized anthrax” that would stay in the air for a long time. So because I was spending so much time learning about anthrax and meeting with officials, coordinating our responses, I learned a lot and I became interested in other aspects of the investigation. I wanted to know who sent those letters.

In October, 2001, the Administration was trying to get the Patriot Act passed. That’s when the BBC reported Vice President Cheney said there “could be a connection between the anthrax cases and bin Laden’s terror network”.

One day, I heard that the FBI had done an analysis of the anthrax and found that it was called the Ames strain. This type of anthrax had been specially treated with certain chemicals to make it “weaponized” it turns out that this process was developed at a U.S. Army facility called Fort Detrick. So it turns out that the source of the anthrax that killed the postal workers was probably the United States government. I then asked myself who could get their hands on that weaponized anthrax from Fort Detrick?

So I then I heard that the FBI was questioning one of the scientists who had worked with the U.S. biological weapons program, however, he was not arrested.

And then, the investigation just stopped. There was no more news about who sent the letters.

And I said to myself, “That’s strange”.

So I looked into this a little bit more, and found out that there were only a few letters sent. It turns out that the Senators who got letters (Daschle and Leahy) were both Democrats who were opposed to the rapid passage of the Patriot Act. But after they got their letters, the Capitol buildings were closed, and lots of people in Washington were scared. And then, shortly after that, the Patriot Act was voted on and passed, even though most senators did not have a chance to read it before they voted for it.

And then, a couple months later, I remember hearing that President Bush wanted us to go to war with Iraq. And he said that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. And that Saddam Hussein wanted to attack the United States with anthrax and other weapons. And I remember the terrorist alerts, yellow, orange. And postal workers called me, very afraid when the homeland security chief said to go by plastic sheets and duct tape to protect against terrorist chemical and biological attacks. But I told the postal workers “Don’t worry, I’ve checked with the Centers for Disease Control and you don’t have to buy duct tape”.

But people were very frightened.

And then, I remember watching General Colin Powell, our Secretary of State on TV at the United Nations. He held up a little bottle file of white powder and said, if this were anthrax and distributed just the right way, thousands of people could die.

And shortly after that, we invaded Iraq.

But then we found out that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction. They didn’t have weaponized anthrax. And we found out that the president’s state of the union message about Iraq trying to buy uranium and the question about the aluminum centrifuge tubes was all wrong. And there never was any danger of our first warning being a mushroom cloud. And later, it was called an “intelligence failure”. So I didn’t understand why, when CIA director George Tenet resigned, President Bush gave him the Presidential Medal of Freedom.


And about that time, I was listening to a morning radio talk show.

The host of the show took a telephone call, and interviewed a young man who had produced a video. This video was about how the government of the United States was hiding the truth from us about September 11. And he said that the Twin Towers in New York could not have fallen led the way to the ground from just from the airplanes and from the fires. And he said that they never did find that Boeing 757 that was supposed to have crashed at the Pentagon.

And I thought that was pretty interesting. But then, the radio talk show host asked this young man “Who in the United States government would possibly want to kill thousands of our own citizens. Who would want to crash those planes. Why would they want to do that. Who would benefit?”

And then, the young man tried to answer that question. He said he didn’t really know. And then, the talk show host changed his attitude. He was no longer just asking questions. He was now being very aggressive. It was obvious that he thought the young man was a crazy fool, and he almost caught him unpatriotic. The young man had mentioned a book called 9/11 - The New Pearl Harbor.

So I ordered that book and read it. The book was written by Professor David Ray Griffin. That book raised lots of questions and pointed out that much of the official government story did not make sense.

And then, the 9/11 commission report was published. And it was a best seller. It sold more than Harry Potter for a while. Finally, we were going to have the answers to what happened on 9/11. But then, I heard some criticism of the report and of the Commission. I remember that at first, President Bush did not want a Commission. After the Challenger space shuttle blew up, there was almost an immediate investigation, and millions and millions of dollars were spent to investigate. But the 9/11 commission did not start for more than one year after 9/11, and did not have very much money to run the investigation.

So it does not look like President Bush was supporting this commission very much. But when it was finally started, he appointed Henry Kissinger to lead the commission. But then, Mr. Kissinger resigned, he said because he refused to disclose the names of the clients for his consulting company. It turns out that the man who ran the investigation day to day and who was responsible for editing the final report, was Mr. Phillip Zelikow. And Mr. Zelikow had worked with the Bush transition team on national security matters when Clinton was leaving office, and he had co-authored a book with Condoleezza Rice, who was one of the key witnesses who finally testified to the Commission.

And I remember that President Bush and Vice President Cheney did not want to testify in front of the commission. And finally, when they did, they had to be together in the same room at the same time, but it was not under oath, and the commissioners could not take notes from the room until the White House approved them.

And the press kept calling this the “independent” commission. But the commission’s draft report was given to the White House for vetting before final publication, and the White House helped edit the report before it was published.

So I wondered about this commission report’s conclusions. It turns out that nobody in our government was to blame for the 9/11 attacks except the Federal Aviation Administration. And we had “intelligence failures”. But they forgot to mention World Trade Center Building 7. Not one word about that building that fell all the way to the ground even though it was not hit by an airplane. And they forgot to mention lots of other things. They also got some things completely wrong. When discussing the “collapse” of the Twin Towers, they say the towers had hollow cores comprised of stairways and elevators. In fact, the towers each had 47 central steel support columns. (David Ray Griffin has published a very good book called the 9/11 Commission: Omissions and Distortions.)

I don’t think anybody was disciplined or fired because of incompetence over what happened on September 11. This seemed very strange to me.

Then, I read the newspaper story about a man who had died in Memphis Tennessee. He had fallen off of a bridge and drowned in the Mississippi river. That was very strange. And so I wondered who was this man? And it turns out that he was a Harvard microbiologist who was visiting Memphis for a science conference.

His rental car was found abandoned on the Hernando de Soto bridge 11/16/01 with the keys in the ignition pulled over to a lane that was closed at the side of the bridge without hazard flashers on.

His body was found on 12/20/01 snagged on a tree in the water in Vidalia, La., 300 miles south of Memphis.


His obituary reads:
Don C. Wiley, one of the most distinguished structural biologists of his generation, has died. He was 57. Wiley, whose teaching and research career spanned three decades at Harvard University, conducted key research on the structure of viruses and of proteins in the human immune system. His work focused on the molecular mechanisms that enable viruses to infect cells, and on how cells respond to external challenges by presenting antigens and mobilizing defensive cells. A senior investigator of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute, Wiley studied the structure of such viruses as the AIDS virus, Ebola, herpes simplex, and influenza. He examined the ways in which viruses bind to cell surfaces, enabling their entry into the cell, and the ways in which viruses evolve to infect different organisms and to escape the immune response of their hosts. By understanding these processes, Wiley sought to find new ways to combat these viruses

The coroner ruled that he had “likely lost his balance on a narrow curb of a Memphis bridge, fell over the thigh-high guardrail and down 135 feet to his death.”

(When I looked this up with a search engine, I found reports of other microbiologists dying around the same time, including Dr. Robert M. Schwartz, Dr. Benito Que, Dr. Set Van Nguyen, and Dr. Vladimir Pasechnik who was reported to be the former chief of the Soviet bioweapons program.)

Then, I heard about a physics professor at Brigham Young University, Doctor Stephen Jones. Doctor Jones had published a paper on the Internet that described problems with the official government story about how the twin towers crashed all the way to the ground on September 11. He says that the best explanation seems to be “controlled demolition”. That is when a company puts explosives inside a building, and then sets them off in a very specific away, to cause the building to collapse into its own foot print. Also, World Trade Center building 7 fell exactly this way, but it was not hit by a plane. They say the fires caused building seven to crumble all the way to the ground. But fires have never caused a steel framed high-rise building to ever collapse all the way to the ground, before or after September 11.

The government’s own FEMA investigation was unable to explain what happened to WTC building 7 seven, but they did not consider the hypothesis of controlled demolition.


I wonder why the American press hasn’t done a better job informing the public. Most people don’t know about building 7, and most people think that Osama bin Laden has never denied that he was behind the 9/11 attacks. In fact, he has denied it publicly at least twice. The press did tell us about a video that was provided by the Pentagon, in which a man they claim to be bin Laden admits guilt. But the press forgot to tell us that experts believe this video tape was a fake.

Recently, somebody sent me an e-mail that got me to thinking.
Sometimes, when politicians don’t like somebody they call him a “Hitler”.

It turns out that Hitler was very good at fooling and manipulating the citizens of Germany. In some ways, he tricked them into war. He did this using a technique called the Big Lie. When I read about the Big Lie, I remembered that phone call with the radio announcer and the young man in Idaho. Mr. Hitler said that people are unable to believe that the government would tell them a very very Big Lie. And because the people were psychologically unable to believe a very Big Lie, the government could fool the people and manipulate them.

But the lie must be very very big. So big, that it seems impossible. Most people find it impossible psychologically to believe that our government could in any way be involved with any kind of harm being done to American citizens.

Some people say that the Bush administration knew about the September 11 attacks before they happened, and purposely did nothing to stop them. This is called complicity with the attacks.

Other people say that there is a “secret government” within our intelligence community that actually helped plan and carry out those attacks. This is such an outrageous suggestion that most people are completely unable to consider it, even for one minute. I hope this is not what happened. But, I must ask more questions because the 911 commission report leaves so much out. There are so many omissions, and distortions.

There are many very important questions that have not been answered. Now, there is a group of academic professors who have come together to propose a credible challenge to the 9/11 commission report. They say that the buildings came down probably because of controlled demolition.

Their web site is http://www.st911.org
Another site that asks about the collapse of the buildings is http://www.911truestory.com

This is where we need to start the investigation. If this turns out to be true, then many other questions should be asked. It’s time for the 9/11 puzzle to be finally and accurately solved piece by piece.

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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
85. A bloody, violent, gory, ear drum shattering, earth shaking outrage like
Edited on Tue Feb-14-06 11:28 PM by Independent_Liberal
nothing you've ever seen before. A primal scream that can be heard all across the universe.

It's the achilles heel. The whole fascist global domination agenda would be exposed. No more BFEE. And no more Republican Party.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
87. It's a national security issue now -
they could never let the truth out now simply because it would cause uproar
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myzenthing Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
88. Plausible deniability
A fascinating question. I'd always been under the assumption that the truth would never come out any time soon. I'd thought that maybe future historians would conclude that it was an inside job, but that wouldn't happen for years.

Just to clarify, I don't believe Bush knew anything about 9/11 before it happened. My guess is that Cheney and the other neocons kept him out of the loop for "plausible deniability" reasons.

Now, assuming that MIHOP was proven sometime soon, I think either one of two scenarios would happen:

1. Martial Law, internment camps, terror squads, etc.
or
2. Bush/Cheney get impeached, neocons get arrested, GOP destroyed, wingnuts continue unchanged.

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theSaiGirl Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Congress and the military could intervene ... legally
Edited on Wed Mar-22-06 10:56 PM by theSaiGirl
A Presidential administration could be removed from office, without undue violence and with adherence to the rudiments of due process and the Constitution.
But it would require a massive purge of the armed forces ...
Once the armed forces would be secured by loyal and patriotic officers and their units,
the Congress will supinely cave-in and supply a rubber-stamp of Constitutional approval.

A transfer of power, including substantial arrrests and indictments of fraud, RICO, murder and treason, could conceivably restore confidence in Constitutional authority.
This would require a clear and open assertion of power by armed forces to arrest the 9/11 perps, begin the process of rolliing up their state-sponsored and corporate "terrorist" networks; and restoration of law and order.

Of course, the biggest problem would be either neutralizing the narcotic iinfluence of the corporate audio-visual mediai, or seizing its assets in order to broadcast some reality to people.
Repeatedly .. in loops.
This would mean ensuring the active co-operation of media executives, producers and media technical staff
... so that the available media outlets can be deployed immediately, to bring people up to speed quicikly, on the broader context of 9/11 as merely one episode, in a serial chain of false-flag state-sponsored gangsterism, fraud, protection racketeering and corruption.

A "well-regulated militira" (loyal units of our armed forces) would have the authority to induce such co-operation (as authorized by the Congress for all "licensed" media outlets),
"in the public interest" and "under conditions of extreme emergency" ... or simply remove those personnel already criminally or civilly liable to charges of RICO and fraud;.,or, possibly, as accessories to murder and conspiracy, ex post facto; or otherwise compromised for reasons of immediate national security.

The controlled corporate media brainwash apparat has to either be seized and re-engineered, or simply shut down. One way or another, it has to be neutralized.

In the longer term aftermath of such a turnover of power, we would have to undertake massive remedial education for Americans of all ages, regardless of social class ethnic background, political Party affiliation ..... massive remedial education for a nation dumbed-down enough to be hoaxed by a corrupted, criminal and treasonous corporate media.

Simply showing the mainstream network videos from that morining will be enough to make people realize that these were controlled demos. Neighborhood discussions in schools, libraries and malls could begin from there ....... Restoring America means restoring people's sense of personal responsibility, and the commitment to learn how to think for onself.

In any case, for an orderly transfer of power, we would need sufficient troops , reliable officers, and the formal endorsement of the Congress.
Once those forces are set in motion, large numbers of people will move into the streets and public spaces... as in the "velvet" revolutions that ocurred in most East Bloc tyrannies, following the fall of the Berlin Wall.
That is the best we can hope for.
1) Orderly arrest and indictment of the 9/11 perps and their accessories in the media and private sector.
2) Turnover of the media for a complete purge and clean-up. That would be the state-licensed media outlets..... The Internet is already reasonably free and open.
But the Pentagon would immediately have to shut down all counter-intell and sabotage efforts against the Internet, and arrest all those involved in such crimes.


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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-23-06 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
92. What happened with Katrina?
Or when Bush admitted making himself king to spy on innocent Americans?

Same as it ever was ...
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