What is the Blue Phillips circular logo that was described in

[orleans]

Loose Change?

someone described one of the planes that hit the towers saying:

"it was definitely a blue logo, it was like a phillips circular logo on the front of the plane. it definitely did not look like a commercial plane, i didn't see any windows on the side."

"mark, if what you say is true, those could be cargo planes. you said you didn't see any windows inside?"

"I didn't see any windows inside. it was not a normal flight i've ever seen at an airport. it was a plane that had a blue logo on the front and it did not look like it belonged in this area."

here's a blue phillips circular logo:


"Air Force Phillips Laboratory

Recognized as a national leader in space research and development, the Air Force's Phillips Laboratory combines a talented military-civilian employee workforce with unique capabilities, resources, and facilities to form a world-class research center for national defense.

Located at Kirtland Air Force Base, New Mexico, the Laboratory concentrates its research and development in six technical areas: geophysics, propulsion, space and missiles technology, lasers and imaging, advanced weapons and survivability, and space experiments.

Phillips Laboratory is the federal agency responsible for administering the cooperative agreement under which the Maui High Performance Computing Center was established and operates."
http://phi.sinica.edu.tw/instruct/workshop/html/overview/phillips.html

[MercutioATC]

1. If the government WAS going to use "replacement planes", WHY

wouldn't they paint them in United and American livery? Does that make any sense?

[mirandapriestly]

2. I don't think that is the question. nt

[MercutioATC]

4. Try this then: Why did this ONE witness see what nobody else did?

Better?

[seatnineb]

5. Is that so?

Then, low in the sky, I saw a plane coming, it had two engines on either side of the tail, and even from our vantage the plane looked large. I couldn't believe what I was seeing - I thought for a moment it was a news or rescue plane, silly as that sounds.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/newsid_1537000/1537530.stm

[MercutioATC]

6. Congratulations, you found a description of a non-existent plane.

I'm not familiar with a plane with four tail-mounted engines, are you?

This witness also mentions nothing of a blue circle or no windows...

[seatnineb]

7. I never knew United Airlines 175 was black!

)The second plane hit the other tower a few minutes later. From where we were watching, that plane looked black, like a military aircraft.

http://www.readthehook.com/stories/2002/09/05/coverStoryWhereWereYou9ele.html.

[MercutioATC]

8. How many planes crashed into the tower? You've just shown three.

Three witnesses, three completely different descriptions. You're going to use THAT as evidence???

[seatnineb]

11. It is the FACT that these witnesses don't agree that is interesting.

"I'm actually uptown at 86th and Riverside. I can see the World Trade Center from about half the building up to the top. And about five minutes ago, as I was watching the smoke, a small plane -- I did -- it looked like a propeller plane, came in from the west. And about 20 or 25 stories below the top of the center, disappeared for a second, and then explode behind a water tower, so I couldn't tell whether it hit the building or not. But it was very visible, that a plane had come in at a low altitude and appeared to crash into the World Trade Center"

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/11/bn.01.html

[MercutioATC]

12. Eyewitness accounts USUALLY vary.

It's nothing odd.

That's why video evidence (when available) is generally given preference.

[seatnineb]

13. So let's concentrate on the guys who shoot the videos then...............

Park Foreman shot this video:



........from his apartement in Brooklyn Heights.

But what does he say..........

In the words of Park Foreman:
"I heard a plane fly overhead,"
http://poly.union.rpi.edu/article_view.php3?view=793&pa... .

Funny......I seem to remember another Brooklyn witness mentioning a low flying plane.....

In the words of Mark Burnback:
"I did not see any windows on the side..the plane was flying low...I was probably......a block away from the sub-way in Brooklyn and that plane came down very low.....and again it was not a normal flight that I have ever seen at an airport ...it was a plane with a blue logo on the front and it just ... looked like it did not belong in this area...."

Meanwhile the adventure of Park Foreman continues:
"Then I looked out the window and saw the first tower on fire. I saw another airplane approaching from the south. I put my camera on it and followed it straight into the building. It looked like it went right through.
http://poly.union.rpi.edu/article_view.php3?view=793&pa... .

Maybe.......and I do mean maybe......the plane that Foreman heard was the same plane that Burnback saw.

[rman]

9. None of the video footage shows 2 engines on either side

of the tail (or otherwise on either side, ie two on either wing)
None of the video footage shows that.

this one is clearest:
http://thewebfairy.com/911/2hit/ghostplane.htm

That picture in your post is not from the BBC article that you quote, is it?

[seatnineb]

10. 30 years before 9/11.

This picture:



...is from an early 1970's New York Times article.

Looks familiar don't it......considering it was drawn nearly 30 years before 9/11!

[Tim Howells]

3. I agree - I don't understand this scenario at all.

This kind of nonsense is completely counterproductive.
No wonder Fox news is airing this film!

Tim Howells

[orleans]

21. apparently it was a fox Affiliate that aired five minutes of it

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/2/141042/019

(the way you put it sounded like it was thee "fox news" rather than a local affiliate.

and i don't get your point of "no wonder" they're airing it--why would they air something that smacks our holy royal government in the face? (of course they aired some honest moments during katrina coverage with shep smith saying he was standing in an area across from either the superdome or convention center--i forget which--saying there were armed guards not letting people leave)

i guess i don't understand how someone can say that questioning the bullshit or the gop "truth" is "counterproductive." this would mean that going along with the bullshit is productive.

in the quest for real truth, we hypothesize, we investigate, we research, we surmise. especially when there are so many reasons to not have blind faith or blind trust in this criminal element that have taken over our country.

what do you do?

[mirandapriestly]

14. I can't find anything about a blue Phillips circular logo

(I like to look before deciding something is "nonsense") and I've looked quite a bit. I recall something , though, like some wreckage with blue paint or something...I'll keep trying.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HybridEB]

16. My pictures

Thanks for eating up my bandwidth!

Direct links are:

http://hybrideb.com/images/newyork/2328200101a.jpg
http://hybrideb.com/images/newyork/2328200102b.jpg

Note that each one is about 18MB in size.

[Make7]

17. web links to images

Democratic Underground has the ability to block remote linking to images hosted on other websites. If you are a website administrator and you would like images from your website blocked, please send us an email to let us know.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

It should save you some bandwidth if those pictures aren't loaded everytime someone views this thread and/or his post. Or you could request that just that post be edited or deleted. Send this link to identify that post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=70673&mesg_id=70916

BTW - Here's how to make links to those images:

?pic">http://www.hybrideb.com/images/newyork/2328200101a.jpg?pic
?pic">http://www.hybrideb.com/images/newyork/2328200102b.jpg?pic

Just add a question mark and some letters at the end of the link and it doesn't display the image, but will allow you to click on the link to view it.

Even if DU is blocking direct links to your site, those links should still work if they are opened in a new window.

- Make7

[HybridEB]

18. NP

Such large images should be posted as links for the sake of visitors.

I have more bandwidth than I'll ever use, feel free to hot-link my entire site onto here if you like.

[sgsmith]

19. Oops!

Didn't know how to make the links like you described. Sorry for eating up someone's bandwidth!

[Make7]

20. That's okay.

It doesn't look like HybridEB is overly concerned about his bandwidth usage. However, for DU dialup users it could take hours for those pictures to load. They problem is that when you view a thread that has less than 20 posts on DU, all of the posts for that thread open in your browser. So even though you were nice enough to put a warning to dial-up users - it might take them a while to find your post in order to figure out why the thread is taking so long to load.

As an alternative to posting large images you could scale the pictures down to a web-friendly size and put them on a free image host like www.photobucket.com. (There are many more to choose from, I just happen to use that one so I know its web address.) Of course, you should also include links to the big images for those that want to view them. And it's a good idea to give the approximate size in megabytes for really big files to let people decide if they want to take the time to download them.

Don't worry - it's just a minor netiquette faux pas - we all make them, it usually turns out to be an effective way to learn new things.

On a not entirely unrelated note - it is also good practice on forums to not put very large pictures (or un-interrupted text) in your posts, if they are too wide they can do weird things to the margins. For example in this thread that you started, Steel core: WTC 1 and WTC 2, I have to scroll back and forth to read the text of your opening post, which I find rather annoying. I believe it is because of your use of ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ separators. (And probably also because the picture of the inspection report floorplan is too wide.)

There are solutions to these issues. I tried sending you a private message about that thread - but it keeps telling me that you are unable to receive them. This is either because your post count is too low or you have them turned off. If you want some hints on how to fix some of this stuff, send me a private message and I'll see if I can reply to you and go into more detail.

- Make7