To all the people who feel Explosives were used on WTC 1,2 and 7...

[jschurchin]

Two questions.
1) What do you think the Most Likely scenario is for the introduction of explosives into the structures?

2) How many people, do you feel, would have to be Active conspirators to effect this installation?

Just asking opinions. I have my own scenario but I want to know what others are thinking.

[Harald Ragnarsson]

1. Any insurance geeks in the house?

Admittedly, I'm not in business and only deal with insurance that i am legally required to, but I seriously wonder whether insurance companies required the towers to be wired up for demo after the unsuccessful attempt to bring them down in 1993.

If the truck had been placed exactly where it was planned to be, the towers would have come down in 93. It was parked too far from the support column and didn't do the damage necessary, but if it had gone to plan, one building was supposed to fall over into the other and bring BOTH down all over lower Manhattan. Can you imagine the death and destruction that would have caused? I can't imagine any company insuring them after that unless there was some way to bring them down safely if need be if they were attacked again. Bush's brother is on the board of the security company for the towers, if they were wired, he would be in position to know about it.

I think they were brought down from Rudy's command bunker in WTC 7 and then it was brought down later in the day to eliminate LOTS of evidence, of 911 and other crimes like Enron. SEC had offices in WTC 7 as well as secret service, FBI and CIA.

[Kevin Fenton]

2. Something like that

I don't know whether it was done at the request of the insurance companies, but explosives being placed in the towers to prevent a successful repeat of 1993 seems the most likely scenario to me. The 1993 bombers thought they would kill 250,000 people - just imagine what would have happened if the south tower had taken out the NYSE. It's not just a question of the death toll and the real estate destroyed, think about how much the information stored in Lower Manhattan is worth - none of it was backed-up off-site in 1993.

There were some funny goings-on with the elevator service company after 1993. A year later Otis, the world leader, lost the contract to a local company called ACE Elevator, which then took on lots of Otis' staff. When the planes hit, ACE's management took the elevator mechanics out of the building, whereas they are supposed to go up the towers with the firemen (this is what they did in 1993). All the details here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x60799
The elevator shafts are in the core and the core columns that would have to be severed to bring the building down are accessible most easily from these shafts.

IMHO the plane debris severed the elevator cables, the cabs plunged, creating overpressures, and the overpressures set of charges at the bottom of the shafts - hence the hatch door blowouts in the lobby and first sub-level.

[Harald Ragnarsson]

3. Very good analysis

Other strange things, this one a sprinkler company.

Was mysterious Tennessee death linked to terrorism?
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/focus/terrorism/archives/0202/j24mystery.html

MEMPHIS, Tenn. — Shortly before 1 a.m. Feb. 10, witnesses saw flames erupt from the back seat of a 1992 Acura Legend as it crawled along a two-lane road skirting farm fields in the little Tennessee town of Piperton.

The driver breathed in the flames, her lungs searing, as the car veered off the road and came to rest against a utility pole near the Mississippi state line. There were no skid marks or furrows in the grass to indicate the driver had hit the brakes.

A witness rushed up and pulled open the car door, but the driver was not moving. She appeared to be already dead. When the first volunteer firefighters arrived, the car was engulfed in flames.

From the very beginning, it didn't look right, said Steve Kellett, chief of the Piperton Volunteer Fire Department.

The car had been moving too slowly for the accident to cause much damage. The wooden pole was barely dented. The radiator was pushed in a few inches, but the engine block was undamaged. Most important, the gas tank had not ruptured. The cardboard packaging for a replacement headlamp in the trunk was barely scorched.

This woman worked for a DMV and was involved in certain shady characters getting fake drivers licenses. They also did work on the fire sprinklers allegedly in the time before 911.

Also, NYT stories of the time detail that the man that proved the explosives to the bombers and told them where to place the bomb was an FBI insormant and he recorded his handler telling him to go through with the act. I can't find it on their website, not unusual for 10 years or older articles I would think, but there are images of the newspaper articles online that I have seen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing
FBI foreknowledge
In the course of the trial it was revealed that the FBI had an informant, an Egyptian man named Emad Salem, who was involved with the bombing conspiracy. Salem claims to have informed the FBI of the plot to bomb the towers as early as February 6, 1992, information he was privy to possibly because he himself initiated the plot. Salem's role as informant allowed the FBI to quickly pinpoint the conspirators out of the hundreds of possible suspects.

Salem asserted that the original FBI plan was to supply the plotters with a harmless powder instead of actual explosive to build their bomb, but that an FBI supervisor decided that a real bomb should be constructed instead. He substantiated his claims with hundreds of hours of secretly-recorded conversations with his FBI handlers, made during discussions held after the bombings.

Salem said he wished to complain to FBI headquarters in Washington about the failure to prevent the bombing despite foreknowledge, but was dissuaded from doing so by the New York FBI office. The FBI has never contradicted Salem's account.

[Kevin Fenton]

4. 1993 Bombing

"the man that provided the explosives to the bombers and told them where to place the bomb was an FBI insormant"
No, he wasn't. Ramsi Yousef was the master bomber. Salem was the informant and he left the cell when the bomb plot started to gather steam, after he was fired by the FBI due to an argument over his wearing a wire and testifying in court.

"and he recorded his handler telling him to go through with the act."
His handler didn't tell him that. He didn't go through with it. He was not part of the cell that did the 1993 bombing when the bombing occurred.

"In the course of the trial it was revealed that the FBI had an informant, an Egyptian man named Emad Salem, who was involved with the bombing conspiracy."
Actually, he was heavily involved in a previous bombing conspiracy by more-or-less the same group, but had a little information about this one. For example, he clearly has no idea what the bomb actually looked like.

"Salem claims to have informed the FBI of the plot to bomb the towers as early as February 6, 1992,"
Master bomber Ramsi Yousef arrived in the US in September 1992, without him the plot would never have got off the ground.

"Salem asserted that the original FBI plan was to supply the plotters with a harmless powder instead of actual explosive to build their bomb,"
The bomb was liquid, not powder. If Salem or the FBI had swapped the liquid for a white powder, the bombers would certainly have noticed immediately. An FBI agent did actually tell Salem that they would swap the bomb for white powder, but this was just a throw-away line to placate Salem and was probably said at the last meeting when Salem's 3-month's notice period ended in autumn 1992.

"but that an FBI supervisor decided that a real bomb should be constructed instead."
The agent in charge (Carston Dunbar) didn't believe anything Salem said (that's one reason he wanted him to wear a wire) and didn't believe there was a bomb (although other FBI agents involved (Floyd, Anticev) did).

[Harald Ragnarsson]

6. I can't find the scans of the Times articles spur of the moment

but they are on the net.

Sorry for the typos, forgot to spell check that one. Reading the Times articles, Mr Salem was involved in the plot and according to his testimony, he provided the explosives through the FBI. He taped conversations with them where this was talked about.

I typed the first short paragraph from memory, then looked it up and found the wikipedia entry as something that wouldn't be question as a source, I hope. It follows the link to the page. If they are wrong, please correct them, but also please provide documentation when you do it.

As for me, I will try and find the scans again.

Edit: Spellcheck for typos. I can spell, just not type!

[Beam Me Up]

5. Please explain to me how, short of a mini nuke, a "truck bomb" could

so shatter the core columns of one of the WTC towers to cause it to collapse into the other. That scenario sounds as ridiculously fanciful to me as the idea that the towers collapsed due to fire. Insurance adjusters would know this.

HOWEVER, that said, a cover story of this nature could have been used to "rationalize" the need to plant explosives throughout the buildings should any of the worker bees asked.

[Harald Ragnarsson]

7. Also from the wikipedia page on the 93 bombing

The bomb

Yousef was assisted by Iraqi bomb maker Abdul Rahman Yasin. Yasin's complex 1300 lb (600 kg) bomb was made of urea pellets, nitroglycerin, sulfuric acid, aluminum azide, magnesium azide, and bottled hydrogen. He added sodium cyanide to the mix as the vapors could go through the ventilation shafts and elevators of the towers. The van that Yousef used had four 20 ft (6 m) long fuses, all covered in surgical tubing. Yasin calculated that the fuse would trigger the bomb in twelve minutes after he would use a cheap cigarette lighter to light the fuse. (Me: How on earth would these guys get all this type of stuff? Nitroglycerine? Isn't that stuff tracked?)

Yousef wanted to prevent smoke from escaping the towers, therefore catching the public eye by smothering people inside. He foresaw Tower One collapsing onto Tower Two after the blast would occur. The materials to build the bomb cost some US$300.


The attack

The bomb exploded in the underground garage at 12:17 P.M., opening a 30 meter wide hole through 4 sublevels of concrete. The bomb generated a pressure of more than 1 GPa. The detonation velocity of this bomb was about 15,000 ft/s (4.5 km/s). The cyanide gas that Yousef put in the bomb burnt up in the explosion.

Six people were killed. At least 1,040 others were injured. However, the towers were not destroyed as Yousef envisioned. Yousef escaped to Pakistan several hours later.

The bomb cut off the center's main electrical power line, and all telephone service for New York City. The bomb caused smoke to rise up to the 93rd floor of both towers, and cut off the towers' four stairwells and emergency lighting system. Also as a result of the loss of electricity most of New York City's radio and television stations lost their over-the-air broadcast signal for almost a week with television stations only being able to broadcast via cable and satellite via a microwave hookup between the stations and three of the New York area's largest cable companies, Cablevision, Comcast, and Time Warner Cable.

Despite its relatively low death toll, the bombing shocked the American public. Only once before the 1993 attack had the FBI recorded a bomb of that force to have been used. The FBI has recorded a total of about 73,000 explosions.

[rman]

8. 36 hr power down on the weekend of 9/8, 9/9

4000 pounds of explosives required,
10 trips by 10 men,
a dozen "in the know", the rest following orders

[jschurchin]

9. We think alike, except......

I believe the power down was for the placement of wireless detonators, possibly pressure switch's.

At one time I was the head of maintenance for a fourteen story steel framed building. If my G.M. came to me and said "We are having a outside contractor come in and replace the fireproofing on the beams and columns" I wouldn't give it a second thought, hell I would have my men help them with their equipment and material.
Now, what if the material is a type of plastique in paste form. The installer's don't necessarily know this, they are just workers installing "fireproofing".

What I am getting to is that the majority of the people were just pawn's. They did their job's, as they were told, they didn't question it. Hell, outside contractors go in and out of building's all the time without a second glance. Once they are given security badges no one looks twice at them. This conspiracy starts near the top, maybe one or two people, thru intelligence, they keep secrets for a living, and end's at the building owner/leaseholder. Everyone else are pawn's following order's.

I agree with your assessment of 10-12 people. It definitely does not involve hundred's or thousand's, that is ludicrous.

[DemInDistress]

10. good question you raised., I feel after silverstein signs the lease

in July 2001 and "triples" or doubles the insurance on the WTC the wheels of destruction were set in motion. I can't accept that after the 93' attempt the place was wired. Its reported that 1 week before the attacks Marvin Bush "pulled out the bomb sniffing dogs" out of the WTC.
CEO of Controlled Demolitions Inc. Mark Louizeaux said give him a week and a team and he could wired up all three buildings for demolition. So, with silverstein and his "fire drills" or somethings to that effect, bomb sniffing dogs pulled ,ex-CIA experts,neocons,iraq,big oil, SEC criminal investigations of cheney and halliburton by SEC (12th floor offices in WT7), I just don't believe osama did it at all..WHO STOOD TO GAIN?
WHO ARE THE PROFITEERS? WHO WERE THE WINNERS?

[RedSock]

11. Sakhera Hammad

From Paul Thompson:

February 10, 2002: Driver's License Examiner Dies in Suspicious Circumstances

Katherine Smith is killed one day before her scheduled appearance in court on charges she helped five Islamic men get illegal drivers licenses. According to witnesses, she veered into a utility pole when a fire erupted in her car. She was burned beyond recognition. The FBI later determines that gasoline was poured on her clothing before she died in the fire and find that arson was the cause of death. (Associated Press, 2/15/02 (B)) A suicide note was found, but prosecutors say they are looking for murder suspects. One of the five men, Sakhera Hammad, was found with a pass in his wallet giving access to the restricted areas of the WTC, dated September 5, 2001. Hammad claims he was a plumber and worked on the WTC's sprinkler system that day, but the company with exclusive rights to all WTC plumbing work has never heard of him. Smith was being investigated by the FBI; the five later plead guilty to charges of fraud. (Memphis Commercial Appeal, 2/21/02; Go Memphis, 2/12/02; Associated Press, 2/13/02; Reuters, 2/15/02) One of the five, Khaled Odtllah, drove from New York City to Memphis on 9/11. Tennessee is one of only four US states that doesn't require a Social Security card to get a driver's license. A prosecutor accuses each of the five men of attempting to acquire a “completely false and untraceable identity.” (Associated Press, 2/12/02; Associated Press, 2/15/02 (B)) One month later, the coroner who examines her body is targeted by a bomb, which is defused. Then in June the coroner is attacked, bound with barbed wire, and left with a bomb tied to his body, but he survives. (Memphis Commercial Appeal, 3/14/02)

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Just throwing it out there.

[DemInDistress]

12. THE TIMELINE TO TERROR...is my 911 Bible...

I often quote from it..I often visit it..you can always throw 911 material at me my friend. I am devoted in exposing the murdering bush's and their band of thieves..

thanks again..

ps..there are 2 kinds of people when discussing 911..
1. 911 hunters looking for the truth and
2. 911 debunker's looking to distract 911 hunters from finding that truth

thanks again my friend..

[Old and In the Way]

13. Looking at those seismic charts.......

Neither plane registers much of a blip over the background noise. But those huge spikes and 6 or 7 well defined spikes during the event would seem to provide a clue. If they took out the foundation first, that would account for the single sharp spike. A timed reaction of explosions from the top down could be the spikes that follow the huge one. Who'd see that as the upper floors are raining debris and destruction down and masking these charges? If you were going to do a controlled demolition, I'd think the core would be the logical place to put them.