all it takes to move from LIHOP to MIHOP is one phone call.

[Lerkfish]

*IF* you accept LIHOP, that the Bush administration knew beforehand of the impending attack, then you should be able to accept the possibility of MIHOP without effort.

Let's accept as given, that accounts of what happened are completely true:
--A. that 19 or so people involved in a terrorist cell (which may have included more than those 19)
--B. secretly planned and executed a plot to hijack planes and ram them into buildings
--C. that it was a suicide mission, leaving us unable to interrogate the 19

Now, to get from there to LIHOP, all you need is (bolded)

--A. that 19 or so people involved in a terrorist cell (which may have included more than those 19)
--B. secretly planned and executed a plot to hijack planes and ram them into buildings and intelligence agencies knew of the plan
--C. that it was a suicide mission, leaving us unable to interrogate the 19

Now, to get to MIHOP from LIHOP, all you need is (bolded)

--A. that 19 or so people involved in a terrorist cell (which may have included more than those 19)
--B. secretly planned and executed a plot to hijack planes and ram them into buildings and intelligence agencies knew of the plan, and a single agent called them on a secure line that morning to say "all is a go"
--C. that it was a suicide mission, leaving us unable to interrogate the 19

Now, the only thing that would disclude that phone call would be moral considerations. Certainly, its logistically possible to have an undercover agent either help plan, or alert on the readiness to the hijackers the time was right. Its not only possible, if they knew of the threat ahead of time, it would be easy to do and no one be the wiser. The only person, beyond the Bush cabal, who needed to know would be that agent, and that covert agent could be discredited or eliminated easily enough.

But we come back to the moral issue: people may not WANT to believe it possible for this cabal to actually arrange that phone call. Fair enough. But, lets say they DID:

1. it would require riding herd on other agencies who might get a sniff on the hijackers ahead of time, and discouraging them from investigating the hijackers. We KNOW this did, in fact, happen, from whistleblower testimony. An FBI agent was attempting to warn her superiors about one of the hijackers and her report was dismissed, denies and deep-sixed.
We also KNOW that another group had identified Atta and a govt. agent put a post it note over his face and they were told to forget about him. IF these actions occured for the purpose of allowing the attack to happen, then its proactive interference and therefore MIHOP, even if no direct contact was made with the cell. To obstruct their premature apprehension is MAKING IT HAPPEN ON PURPOSE.

thanks for reading.

[spooked]

1. You got it

[JackRiddler]

2. thank you much

For showing once again how irrelevant the "LIHOP/MIHOP" debate is.

These terms are a false dichotomy. Mihop necessarily contains a Lihop element.

Lihop inevitably leads to Mihop, since you can't just "let" it happen. If you are the law enforcement, and you know it's coming, and you consciously decide to have it happen so that you can profit from it or otherwise get what you want, you are as good as committing the crime. Morally equivalent. If you do anything to facilitate it, to make sure it happens, then you are making it happen.

The real question in the lihop/mihop nonsense debate is whether outside hijackers were involved at all.

It's an interesting but ultimately irrelevant question. The air force was turned off by way of the wargames. The field investigations were obstructed. The post-attack investigations are obvious cover-ups, esp. of the financing. I don't need any more than that to say 9/11 was an inside job and to demand a real criminal investigation. With the power of discovery, we can settle the other open questions. Without it, we're just hobbyists.

[seemslikeadream]

3. DO THE MATH

:hi:


BUDDY BUDDY
http://www.gsnmagazine.com.nyud.net:8090/images/aug_05/atta.jpg
DO THE MATH

24 MINUTES

THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A MILITARY ORDER WATCH THIS VIDEO

http://www.bushflash.com/buddy.html


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/24/124834/678


DIA Agents were ordered to put yellow Post-its over Atta's face and the face's of 3 other 9/11 terrorists

"We were directed to take those 3M yellow stickers and place them over the faces of Atta and the other terrorists and pretend they didn't exist," the intelligence officer told GSN."

Intel agents Michael Shaffer and Scott Philpott have confirmed Rep. Weldon's claims that a chart with Atta's face, soon the photos of 3 other members of the 9-11 terror team, were known to DIA team Able Danger by early 2000.

This diary will show that Pete Schoomaker and Philip Zelikow are two of the main Perpetraitors in this scandal, that they deliberately withheld information from the President of the United States that would have prevented 9/11, that they and their neo-con rulers Let It Happen On Purpose.

Of this there can no longer be any doubt.



MUST READ - RE: ABLE DANGER INFO
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4447706

Hopsicker: Able Danger Intel Exposed "Protected" Heroin Trafficking
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x149481


Able Danger: Short Time-line
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4441903

Was Able Danger Shut Down After It Detected Condi-PRC Spy Ring?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4494524



Senate May Hold Hearings on Able Danger, Info Sharing
Thursday, August 25, 2005


Able Danger (search) is the code name for a military-intelligence unit that apparently learned a year before the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks that lead hijacker Mohamed Atta (search) and other terrorists were already in the United States.

One of the central Able Danger claims — that military lawyers blocked the sharing of the Atta information from the FBI in the late summer and early fall of 2000 — will be a focus of the committee's if a hearing takes place, FOX News has confirmed.

Some analysts involved with Able Danger have recently gone public with their findings, saying they were discouraged from looking further into Atta, and their attempts to share their information with the FBI were thwarted, because Atta was a legal foreign visitor at the time.

"This story needs to be told. The American people need to be told what could have been done to prevent 3,000 people from losing their lives," said Rep. Curt Weldon (search), R-Pa.

Weldon drew attention to Able Danger by speaking about it on the House floor and publicly calling for the Sept. 11 commission to explain why the intelligence information wasn't detailed in its final report.

Some Able Danger analysts, including Army Reserve Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer (search) and Navy Capt. Scott Phillpott (search), claim that in October 2003, they told commission staffers of the presence of Al Qaeda operatives in the United States in 2000.


more
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166800,00.html


Senate May Hold Hearings on Able Danger, Info Sharing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1727804&mesg_id=1727804




Condi in Middle of Able Danger ‘Cover Up’"

Weldon is now saying that the Pentagon cover up of able danger “will shake the country to its roots."

...

If the claims made by the Able Danger participants and Rep. Weldon are confirmed, former National Security Adviser Rice and other Bush Administration officials will face a barrage of questions. First would likely be an inquiry into why the administration unceremoniously axed the Able Danger project in May of 2001.

During an August 20th interview on C-Span’s Washington Journal, Able Danger member Lt. Col. Schaffer posed a question of his own:

"The American public should ask themselves: Why would the leadership of DoD shut down, terminate, a project which was aimed at targeting al-Qaeda offensively? ...

"Why would they shut that down, four months before 9/11? That’s the big question right now, we have to ask that. I don’t know the answer to that question because I know my side of the story, I know that when a 2 star general got in my face and said, “I’m a 2 star general and you are not. You are to stop your support of Able Danger.” That’s what I know personally. But the question has to be: Who told him to do that? ...

"And why did the rest of the project, I’m talking about Special Operations Command and the Army portion of this, why was that terminated?

"Those are the questions that need to be asked."


more...

http://www.theinternationalpost.com/z30082005.html

Congressman Weldon -- Why now? Why ever?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4500623

Three more assert Pentagon knew of 9/11 ringleader By Will Dunham

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Three more people associated with a secret U.S. military intelligence team have asserted that the program identified September 11 ringleader Mohammed Atta as an Al Qaeda suspect inside the United States more than a year before the 2001 attacks, the Pentagon said on Thursday.

The Pentagon said a three-week review had turned up no documents to back up the assertion, but did not rule out that such documents relating to the classified operation had been destroyed.

Navy Capt. Scott Phillpott and Army Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer last month came forward with statements that a secret intelligence program code-named "Able Danger" had identified Atta, the lead hijacker in the attacks that killed 3,000 people, in early 2000. Pennsylvania Republican Rep. Curt Weldon (news, bio, voting record), vice chairman of the House of Representatives Armed Services Committee, also went public with the allegations.

Pat Downs, a senior policy analyst in the office of the undersecretary of defense for intelligence, told reporters that as part of the review, the Pentagon interviewed 80 people.

Downs said that three more people, as well as Phillpott and Shaffer, recalled the existence of an intelligence chart identifying Atta by name. Four of the five recalled a photo of Atta accompanying the chart, Downs said.

Pentagon officials declined to identify the three by name, but said they were an analyst with the military's Special Operations Command, an analyst with the Land Information Warfare Assessment Center and a contractor who supported the center.

Downs said all five were considered "credible people."

But officials said an exhaustive search of tens of thousands of documents and electronic files related to Able Danger failed to find the chart or other documents corroborating the identification of Atta. Phillpott has said Atta was identified by Able Danger by January or February of 2000.

"We have not discovered that chart," Downs said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050901/pl_nm/security_attacks_pentagon_dc


Three more assert Pentagon knew of 9/11 ringleader
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1744982&mesg_id=1744982

Specter Wants Answers About 'Able Danger'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1796658&mesg_id=1796658


NYT/Reuters: Pentagon Blocks Testimony at Senate Hearing on Terrorist
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1795221&mesg_id=1795221

NOW - ON CAPITOL HILL - Able Danger Inquiry CSPAN3 9:30am et
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4836496

Able Danger ties Condi Rice to Chinese espionage! (really!)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4846388&mesg_id=4846388

VIDEO-the Senate Judicial Committee ABLE DANGER saga
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?

Official: (Curt Weldon) Attack on Cole foreseen (ABLE DANGER)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1915365&mesg_id=1915365

New 9/11 Timeline update, with new Able Danger page
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?

Weldon seeks Defense testimony on al-Qaida
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1931300

Weldon rips 9/11 commission over intelligence failures
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1959226

General gave OK for Able Danger (confirms al-Qaida mission prior to 9/11)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1973724

ABLE DANGER and the 9/11 Whitewash.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=468631

Able Danger hearing sets intelligence officers at odds
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=440707

Live feed from ABLE DANGER Hearing here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=430652

[Harald Ragnarsson]

4. So the perp behind 911 was the head of the investigation into it?

"This diary will show that Pete Schoomaker and Philip Zelikow are two of the main Perpetraitors in this scandal, that they deliberately withheld information from the President of the United States that would have prevented 9/11, that they and their neo-con rulers Let It Happen On Purpose."


National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the 9-11 Commission), an independent, bipartisan commission

Philip D. Zelikow
Executive Director

Philip Zelikow is the executive director of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, better known as the "9/11 Commission." He is also the director of the Miller Center of Public Affairs and White Burkett Miller Professor of History at the University of Virginia. After serving in government with the Navy, the State Department, and the National Security Council, he taught at Harvard before assuming his present post in Virginia to direct the nation's largest research center on the American presidency. He was a member of the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board and served as executive director of the National Commission on Federal Election Reform, chaired by former Presidents Carter and Ford, as well as the executive director of the Markle Foundation Task Force on National Security in the Information Age. Zelikow's books include The Kennedy Tapes (with Ernest May), Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (with Condoleezza Rice), and the rewritten Essence of Decision (with Graham Allison). Zelikow has also been the director of the Aspen Strategy Group, a policy program of the Aspen Institute.


Edit: To Judy Miller: The aspens are turning.