to all MIHOPers

[sabbat hunter]

i have a question for you. (no insults meant here just a question)

how can the most incompetent regime in the history of our country, one that screws up whatever it touches, (katrina, search for OBL, Iraq war, budget, etc etc) possibly have pulled off 911? ie MIHOP

[Twist_U_Up]

1. When we get answers to these questions.........

then I think we ALL would be able to have a better understanding.

http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html

Whos asking these questions ?

Carol Ashley, mother of Janice Ashley, 25
Fred Alger Management, 93rd floor, WTC Tower One
Hometown: Rockville Centre, NY
Member: Skyscraper Safety Campaign, Voices of September 11th,


Kristen Breitweiser, wife of Ronald Breitweiser, 39
Fiduciary Trust International, WTC Tower Two
Hometown: Middletown Township, NJ
Co-Chair, September 11th Advocates


Patty Casazza, wife of John F. Casazza, 38
Cantor Fitzgerald, 104th floor, WTC Tower One
Hometown: Colts Neck, NJ
Co-Chair, September 11th Advocates


Beverly Eckert, wife of Sean Rooney
Aon, WTC Tower Two
Hometown: Stamford, CT
Member: Skyscraper Safety Campaign, Coalition of 9/11 Families,
Families of September 11th, Fix the Fund, 9/11 Families for a Secure America,
9/11 Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, 9/11 Families to Bankrupt Terrorism


Mary Fetchet, mother of Bradley James Fetchet, 24
Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, 89th floor, WTC Tower Two
Hometown: New Canaan, CT
Chair, Voices of September 11th
Member: Skyscraper Safety Campaign, Coalition of 9/11 Families,
LMDC Families Advisory Council


Monica Gabrielle , wife of Richard Gabrielle
Aon, WTC Tower Two
Hometown: Manhattan, NY and CT
Co-Chair, Skyscraper Safety Campaign


Bill Harvey, husband of Sara Manley Harvey, 31
Fred Alger Management, 93rd floor, WTC Tower One
Hometown: Manhattan, NY
Member: Voices of September 11th


Mindy Kleinberg, wife of Alan Kleinberg, 39
Cantor Fitzgerald, 104th floor, WTC Tower One
Hometown: East Brunswick, NJ
Co-Chair, September 11th Advocates


Carie Lemack, daughter of Judy Larocque
Market Perspectives; passenger, American Airlines Flight 11
Hometown: Cambridge, MA
Co-Founder and Vice-President, Families of September 11th


Sally Regenhard, mother of Christian Michael Otto Regenhard, 28
Probationary Firefighter, L131, Red Hook, missing at WTC
Hometown: Bronx, NY
Founder and Chairperson, Skyscraper Safety Campaign
Member: Coalition of 9/11 Families, 9/11 Families for a Secure America,
LMDC Families Advisory Council


Lorie Van Auken, wife of Kenneth Van Auken, 47
Cantor Fitzgerald, 105th floor, WTC Tower One
Hometown: East Brunswick, NJ
Co-Chair, September 11th Advocates


Robin Wiener, sister of Jeffrey Wiener, 33
Marsh Risk Technologies, 96th floor, WTC Tower One
Hometown: Washington, D.C.
Board Member, Families of September 11th
Member: Voices of September 11, Give Your Voice,
WTC United Family Group

I think the biggest question ,whether your MIHOP or not,is why wont they answer these questions ?

[dchill]

4. OK, so your post is...

better than mine. Good one.

To all non-MIHOPers: It will be great when MIHOP is YOURHOP, too.

[dailykoff]

2. There IS a pattern here...

They seem to excell at wrecking things.

Also lying, cheating, defrauding, denying, and stealing things.

And that's 9/11 in a nutshell.

[libertypirate]

51. Hello, the art of fucking up and getting what you want doesn't happen

by accident. Why? Feeding the media, to think they don't feed the animals, to keep them busy and off their tails is nuts. They fail so you don't see they are fucking you at the same time.

[dchill]

3. The administration is as competent or incompetent...

as it needs to be. They don't care about Katrina victims - Katrina got rid of a whole city of Democrats for them. They don't care about finding OBL, and you KNOW that. The Iraq "WAR" is just what they were told it would be, and it should have cost them the White House and the congressional majority in 2004, but too many people were only paying attention to the Rovian Security Blanket routine - "FEAR THE EVIL ISLAMIC TERRISS DEMOCRATS WON'T PERTECK YOU." The budget is right on target, as far as they're concerned. THEY DON'T CARE.

My GUESS is that 911 was run out of the Pentagon, based on plans begun in the late 1990's, which is when the PNAC neo-cons were entrenching themselves there. They KNEW about the supposed "911 hijackers way before any towers were destroyed. The people behind this don't care about government of the people, by the people and for the people. Why should they spend a lot of time doing a good job of anything but cutting taxes and cutting government programs. Really, why?

[dailykoff]

5. Yep. It's the Enron Way

Extract every last cent, then cut loose and let it go belly up. Ain't it great to have an MBA in the oval office?

[dchill]

6. Exactly...

It's purely and precisely that - truly a hostile takeover.

[MrSammo1]

7. incompetent regime in the history of our country

If they WERE competent.........they wouldn't have screwed up so bad.

[theSaiGirl]

8. "Failure and incompetence" = last refuge of gangsters

The question is:
Why would anyone with a shred of common sense and intellectual integrity be running interference for the Cheney-Bush crime syndicate, by arguing for "failure and incompetence".... when their consistent serial pattern of corruption and criminality is so manifestly obvious

Looks like "Sabbat Hunter" is bending over backwards to protect these gangsters.

Now why would anyone want to do that ?

Here's an excerpt from an earlier post at DU:

“Funny how when you ask perfectly logical, specific questions about the September 11 attacks, you're supposed to be satisfied with stunningly penetrating observations such as "the FBI is a clumsy bureaucracy", "our spy agencies are deaf and dumb" and "our skyscrapers are not 100 percent safe."
But if that is the case, then why have these hopelessly bumbling, deaf and "dumb" halfwits been promoted and rewarded with greater responsibilities? Why have these incompetent goofballs been granted historically unprecedented power to violate our privacy and rights, with no safeguards and fewer and fewer checks and balances?
How come, if they're such well-meaning but pin-headed nitwits they're getting way richer and way more powerful while the rest of us are getting poorer and more oppressed? (while the numskulls sip champagne in the grandeur of their palatial homes and elite clubs, those who insist on logical answers to very important questions are relegated to "dark" church basements -- gotta love the imagery...)
You really can't have it both ways...We are total idiots but trust us with your lives and your safety and all your money, your children and the planet, too! Hmmm... If I say no, does that make me one of those nasty "odd characters"?”

[leftofthedial]

9. your examples are all "incompetence" by design

they want chaos, division and fear--their perceived failures in all the above are actually their intent and serve to create exactly what they want

[theSaiGirl]

10. "failure and incompetence" = last refuge of gangsters

to all
MIHOPers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x73227

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/02/334400.shtml
The 9/11 -"Incompetence" Bogus
By BS detector

Incompetence:

The condition of a person who is unable to properly perform his or her duty.
The failure to meet defined standards of competence.


Why the Bush Administration including their puppeteers are NOT incompetent:

Competence is a standardized requirement
for an individual to properly perform a specific job.

Conclusion:
The Bush SUCCESSFULLY performed ALL OF their most specific and important
jobs, since 2000 and they are still successfully continue..

They properly and SUCCESSFULLY performed the following specific jobs:


-orchestrating 9/11
-planting anthrax scare
-successfully introduce PATRIOT ACT
-planting successfully lies about WMD in Iraq, with help of Douglas Feith +
Co.
-invasion and occupation of Iraq
-covering up the truth about 9/11

-manipulating e-voting machines to select Bush
-replacing positions in World Bank, U.S. Supreme Cour and elsewhere..
-succesful cover-up of Dick Cheney's secretive Energy Task Force
-covering up records of George W. Bush's military service
-covering up former Attorney General John Ashcroft's violations of campaign
finance laws

-helped building corruptions of military- and intelligence contractors
like Halliburton, In-Q-tel, DynCorp, SAIC etc....
-deliberately destroying seagates and levees in New Orleans
-blocking aid for Hurricane Katrina victims
-scripting distractions for the fake opposition party, the democratic party

-get away with Torture at Abu Ghraib and Camp X ray
-planning the next big false flag for United States
-approving the takeover of 22 U.S. Ports
-creating deceptive ad campaigns with actors
-covering up government's accounting practices

-building a national and worldwide sniffer database on 330.000 "suspects"
-getting more money for the war against Iraq and Afghanistan
-creating more distractive stories like "Plame Game" including the cover-up
of the investigation by the Justice Department
-covering up House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's criminal fundraising schemes
in Texas

-covering up other scandals like "memogate", "Indian Gaming Scandal",
Halliburton's Pumping Up Prices and other scandals, Afghanistan's Missing
$700 Million, Pentagon's missing 3.3 trillion, covering up the
Pentagon-Israel Spy Case, covering up wiretapping of the United Nations,
covering up the Medicare Bribe Scandal, covering up the "Boeing Boondoggle",
covering up Antonin Scalia's legal conflicts etc..etc...etc...


etc... etc...

The word "incompetence" is a cover and planted meme to
support leftgatekeeping and block the scientific truth about 9/11.

Phoney opposition groups like MoveOn.org had been created to script
false hope campaigns and cover-up the COMPETENCE of the Republican Party and
their fascist associates within the democratic party and U.S. Congress.

[Twist_U_Up]

13. Very good post theSaiGirl

I will admit these guys are stupid like a fox.

I recently uncovered some facts about a certain Dem presidential candidate that leads me to beleive that he is one more of the fascist associates you refer to.

I posted his name and the facts and got attacked with pure viciousness. Its hard to beleive just how far these nazis are embedded. From top to bottom,So far they havent missed one rock to climb under.

Thanks for the post its nice to know there are more people willing to open there eyes long enough to put 1+1 together.


Welcome to DU
:toast:

[raccoon]

17. Why do you say moveon.org is a phony opposition group?

It may be, but can you give us a link or another source?

[Old and In the Way]

11. When we get a real 9/11 investigation, maybe we can answer your question.

Meanwhile, they were so incompetent, they've transfered $2TT or so of our Treasury into their pockets since 9/11. Not bad for a bunch of incompetents.

[Tim Howells]

12. Look to Cheney and the Neocons ...

Bush was out of the loop. He would never have put himself in
the ridiculous role of listening to "My Pet Goat" while the
Towers burned.

Re incompetence - they are still in there - getting richer
by the day - stealing elections, looting and plundering.
These guys are not stupid - they are evil.

Get a clue on 911, PLEASE.

Tim Howells

[DoYouEverWonder]

27. There's the fatal flaw

Bush wasn't supposed to get stuck with his pants down in a 2nd grade classroom.

All of the planes were supposed to take off by 8:01 AM. The attack was supposed to be over by 9:00 AM.

Bush drove around Sarasota for 1/2 hour monitoring the attack from his limo. If the attack was over by 9:00 AM, Bush would have arrived at Booker to swarms of media going nuts about the attack. He would have given a brief statement and then been whisked away to AF1. Instead, he had to stall. He had to pretend a passenger jet flying into the WTC was a big enough deal to change his schedule. That's not the way it was supposed to go down.

Here's a pic from Booker Elem. on the morning of 9-11. That's a lot of media for a school visit.

[Tim Howells]

37. I don't buy that ...

Surely if Bush had had any say in what was going down he, and not
Cheney, would have been at the center of command in DC when the
planes hit the towers. Also note that US Navy Captain Deborah
Loewer, who normally runs the Situation Room in the White House
was, for unknown reasons, ALSO at the My Pet Goat photo op.

Bush and Loewer were pushed well off to the side so that Cheney
could have free rein in DC to run the op without having to even
pretend to defer to Bush or adhere to normal protocols.

Tim Howells

[dailykoff]

47. Interesting.

I recall that at least one entire classroom was set up as a gadget-packed "media" room -- but it sounds now like a situation room, with Loewer at her post.

I don't believe for a second there was anything accidental about the Booker visit, except maybe the plane delays. The point was to make Junior look as shocked and awed as the rest of us.

[sabbat hunter]

48. couple of questions

you really think that is a lot of media for a presidential visit? are you joking? no matter who the president is, if he/she comes to visit a school it is major news. makes all the local and probably national airwaves.

the rest of your comment is pure speculation and guessing on your part.

[DoYouEverWonder]

50. No, not really

but it made a great cover, if you were trying to stage a photo op.

[DoYouEverWonder]

49. What parts do you consider speculation?

It is documented fact that all the planes were supposed to take off before 8:01 AM. That was one of the reasons for picking an early flight. They have a better on time record, then flights later in the day. It is also documented fact that Flight 77 was scheduled for 8:01AM and left 20 minutes late. Flight 93 was also supposed to depart at 8:01 AM, but didn't leave for another 41 minutes.



Note the jog in Flight 77's path? Almost as if they were waiting for Flight 93 to catch up?

In regards to Bush, it is well documented that he left the his hotel at 8:35 AM. The route to Booker was closed to all traffic, of course. Even on a regular day, it's about a 5 minute drive between the hotel and the school. Bush didn't arrive at Booker until a few minutes before 9:00 AM. Where the heck did he go for 20-25 minutes?

Yes, the rest is speculation.

[CJCRANE]

54. About Flight 93...

if it had been on time, it's quite conceivable that it could've wiped out the US Capitol Building..
I've always wondered what the consequences of that would've been politically/Constitutionally..?

[dflprincess]

14. Arrogance

I think the more they got away with, the more they thought they could get away with and then they got sloppy.

[JackieO]

15. yeah, SOOOOO Incompetent

I guess that's why they're all in jail now, huh?

[theSaiGirl]

16. "failure and incompetence" ..... but not enough to get caught

Think that's why they hung Jack Abramoff out to dry ?
As some kind of sacrificial goat ?
The "Judas goat" ... who gets sacrificed, while the rest of them ride off into the sunset .. scot-free..

Of course, Abramoff's deal suggests that he's been programmed to do the modified limited hangout.
He'll spend a few years at Club Fed, then join Mark Rich at the spa in Switzerland.

[earth mom]

18. Sociopaths is a better way to describe them.

Because they don't care about anyone or anything but THEMSELVES.

They are not trying to "do the job" cause "the job" they were installed to do means nothing to them.

Hence you have 9/11, War in Iraq, Osama bin Forgotten, Tanking Economy/Outsourced Jobs, Katrina-an absolutely endless list.

When you understand that their behavior is of Sociopaths and not Incompetent Idiots, it all becomes Crystal Clear.

[Andre II]

19. This incompetence shit drives me nuts

sorry for that but:

Does PNAC consider the government incompetent?
Do the supporters of a "New Pearl Harbour" consider this government incompetent?
Does Bechtel consider this government incompetent?
Does Halliburton consider this government incompetent?
Does Lockheed consider this government incompetent?

I could go for ages but I think it suffice.

Incomptence is their sorry excuse.
Incompetence is the wrong thing to discuss.
What we have to discuss are the facts!

[JackRiddler]

34. yeah, that's the idea...

To drive you nuts by repeating the same simplistic talking point over and over and over and over and over and over and over until the sheer repetition is expected to show the truth of the proposition.

By the way, sabbat hunter, congrats on finally figuring out how to spell "incompetent."

[rman]

20. I disagree with the premise of your question; they are not incompetent

They are incompetent only if one assumes their goal is to make things better for everyone.

What would be the basis of that assumption?

[Christophera]

21. You Argue For A More Complete Media Control Than We suspect.

Your perception is from information you gained from media.

Consider that a certain, controlled, spun leakage can be used to create perceptions, assumptions, that inhibit the ability of a group of people to act.

I.E.

“They are total dummies, how could they possibly pull this off.”






I've not watched any media, listened to any media, nor consumptivly read any for 7 years. Shut your fucking TV off and talk to your neighbors.

[theSaiGirl]

23. Precisely.

Well said.
Protect your brain from infection.
Turn off the brainwash box.

[petgoat]

22. the most incompetent regime in the history of our country

screws up... katrina .... If the purpose was a land grab so they can turn NO into a
Disneyland/robot port without interference from those pesky citizens, they done real good.

screws up... search for OBL .... If the purpose was to let OBL because he's worth more
as a live bogeyman than dead, or because he's been a CIA asset all along (why didn't the
CIA kill him when Clinton ordered them to? Why did the CIA meet with him 6 weeks before
9/11 in Dubai?) they done real good.

screws up... Iraq war .... If the purpose is to polarize the country and create a wartime
environment justifying war powers and the suspension of the rule of law, and to foment a
thirty-years civil war in Iraq justifying US occupation, and to poison the country with
depleted uranium so that it becomes uninhabitable except for technicians who helicopter in
briefly to service robot oil drilling rigs, they done real good.

screws up... budget .... If the purpose is to bankrupt the USA so the federal government
can be drowned in Grover Norquist's bathtub, to loot the national treasury for the benefit
of the top 5% and the crony corporations, to damage our credit rating so that no one will
ever lend to us again, they done real good.

What was so difficult about 9/11? War games disrupted the air defense. The hardest part was
getting through the cockpit doors. What if, as Kevin Fenton suggested, they had keys?
Al Qaeda airlined had Boeings, didn't it?

[Twist_U_Up]

24. kick

[greyl]

25. If "incompetence theory" were the entirety of the argument

it would be a weak argument. It's not though.

The first logical response to many of the MIHOP theories is to point out the specific errors in the particular theories, not to blow it off by saying "the bush admin is incompetent". However, the glaring evidence that the bush admin is incompetent is just icing on the cake.

It's not a suprise that those who have emotionaly bought into many of the MIHOP theories balk at the idea that the bush admin is incompetent, because the structure of all their conspiracy theories rests on the very idea that the perpetrators are competent enough to pull it off. Remove just that one card, and the entire house of cards collapses.
It's certainly debatable that the bush admin is competent. (I can't believe I have to post that on a progressive site)

It's interesting how many of the those that insist that the bush admin is competent enough to orchestrate some of the wilder theories incorporate the idea that Arabs aren't competent enough to hijack planes and crash them into huge buildings at at 75% success rate. Is that idea debatable?

I think many people are unaware that several of the MIHOP theories originated from racist right-wing sources. Of course, many people are aware.
Whatreallyhappened, for example began as a Clinton killed Vince Foster site http://tinyurl.com/qva4p and is run by a freeper http://tinyurl.com/m9cwl
Thanks to Salvorhardin
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=247x4533

[drdtroit]

26. And many people are unaware that the "official" conspiracy theory

originates from an extremely racist and criminal administration.
:patriot:

[dchill]

28. "75% success rate..."

The planes that were allowed to reach their destinations had a 100% success rate. Your entire approach is debatable. That's what we do here, hopefully. It is clear to me that "several of the MIHOP theories" are wildly speculative - no question - but that includes the official government version, which leaves as many legitimate questions unanswered as the wildest of them.

[Brundle_Fly]

29. the military did it.

not like Bush was involved in the planning directly.

[sabbat hunter]

30. so we had a coup

or the military operates independently?

[dchill]

35. [sigh] The coup was in November of 2000.

No, the military doesn't operate independently (of the Bush Administration.) You have heard of the Office of Special Plans...

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1594

[sabbat hunter]

42. coup

yes i am aware of the fact bush stole the election in 2000. but the way it was stated was that the military did 911 without the president, independently. but because bush is incompetant as we all know.

"the military did it.

not like Bush was involved in the planning directly."

[dchill]

44. Bush isn't capable of planning a coup...

but just about everyone around him is - IMO. The plan might not have been perfect, but it seems to me that along with a little "Office of Secret Planning", a little lying, and a little help from the "patriotic" media, it did get done.

Bush isn't capable of swallowing. It doesn't mean that veritable crimes aren't committed in his name, with his approval and at his behest every day. I DO NOT believe that the military acted independently of Bush or PNAC or a bunch of aspens, not at all. The higher echelons in the Pentagon are planted in aspens.

[porkrind]

31. Incompetent, No. Criminals, Yes.

To paraphrase Chomsky, what looks like a long chain of missteps and misdeeds in foreign and domestic policy is actually a well throughout campaign to steal from the treasury, the middle class, other countries, and to benefit the elite. The usual perps are the military/industrial/security complex, big corporations, and the super-wealthy elites, as well as the pathological Machiavellian power seekers (neocons, Straussians, etc.). This is nothing new, just one more outrage in a long line of outrages. It's a "managed democracy."

I think the known facts of this crime (9/11) stink to high heaven. Like others here have said, "I'm a parent, and I can smell a bullshit lie from a mile away." MIHOP fits in with the M.O. of these creeps, and I think it's hard to explain it any other way. The official story is absurd. It seems more likely that it was a power-grab scare tactic, much like the Reichstag fire.

Collectively, "They" have stolen Billions from their assorted crimes. I wouldn't call this incompetent, just brazen. Once we stop thinking of them in terms of an honorable government and instead as a crime syndicate, it makes more sense. Those who decry this view as a "conspiracy theory" like it's something new under the sun should look more at history, of which it's often said seems to be largely criminal.

It remains to be seen if they will get away with it. So far, I don't think they're in much danger of being caught. :(

[Poll_Blind]

32. Like the Lavon Affair and Iran Contra, I believe the central...

...core to any MIHOP belief would assume that there were individuals related to the plan who were competent, subject matter experts, able to perform the act. Bush and Chaney couldn't fly a B-whatever stealth bomber but they certainly have control of the assets to do their bidding.

Just a thought- I haven't entirely decided what version of events I believe in yet.

PB

[JackRiddler]

33. The awesome competence of the Bush regime.

Those who call the Bush mob "incompetent" make a fatal error. On some usually unconscious level, they seem to think that these criminals share any of the goals of decent human beings. When bad things happen under the Bush regime, the excuse is that the mobsters have "failed" to produce the good results that all reasonable people would desire. But most of these results, of course, are not at all failures. The idea that motivates the Bush crime family is actually to produce evil results, long as these enrich their own class.

The situation in Iraq for example is not the result of "incompetence." It is all according to plan, which was to destroy that nation.

Over and over we see the awesome competence of the Bush regime in accomplishing their radical plans - at every stage very much thanks to the enablers who run the Democratic Party, and who have smoothed the way for the Bush mob in each of their following accomplishments:

Stealing Election 2000.
Trillion dollar giveaway to the rich, intentionally plunging the country into deficit.
Sabotaging the Kyoto Protocols and the ABM treaty, reviving the Starwars scam.
9/11. Exactly as desired.
Legitimating the idea that the enemy is everywhere and there can be an eternal war on a nameless abstraction.
Using 9/11 to avert a market crash in the fall of 2001, minimizing the Enron effect.
Stealing a sum specified in their own audit as "2.3 trillion dollars" from Pentagon assets.
Funnelling trillions more legally into the Pentagon and intel sector and so to the Bushes' favored contractors.
Enriching themselves through war profiteering and other fear policies thanks to Halliburton, Carlyle, Gilead, Trireme, etc.
Suspending the Bill of Rights in the USA PATRIOT Act and other unconstitutional laws.
Getting other countries to pass their own versions of the PATRIOT acts.
Establishing unprecedented rights of government to hold people without habeas corpus as "enemy combatants"
Invading Afghanistan. Exactly as planned, years in advance.
Establishing a Homeland Gestapo, a vast new agency uniting police functions at a federal level.
Instituting Rule by Fear, color-coded no less.
Conducting a successful propaganda operation to create belief in WMD and an Iraqi link to 9/11.
Railroading the idiot Congress into approving the war in Iraq.
Accepting the assassination of Wellstone by whatever lower-level operative delivered it.
Stealing Election 2002.
Legitimating torture of captives.
Establishing "Total Information Awareness" and getting away with it, even after departure of Poindexter.
Invading Iraq. Killing untold thousands.
Getting the Iraqis into a civil war, with the intent of making sure that nation is destroyed.
Establishing the "War of Civilizations" as the inescapable paradigm for understanding world politics.
Covering up 9/11.
Using 9/11 as an election device and excuse for everything on this list.
Using the 9/11 commission fraud to spur a further unification of intelligence functions under one chair.
Stealing Election 2004.
Undoing what remained of corporate media regulation.
Using Katrina as the opportunity to empty out New Orleans and test out long-standing "civil disturbance" doctrines developed by FEMA and other agencies over the past four decades.
Pushing through two right-wing Supreme Court appointments without a filibuster.
Rewiring Americans overnight to believe Iran is now the enemy.

Wow! What a list! A veritable juggernaut of competence.

The Bush mob (almost) always get what they want, and the Democratic "leadership" (almost) always helps them when it counts.

Yes, they had to take a loss on the first attempt to steal the entire Social Security fund, but there are many opportunities yet to come.

Yes, it's all at a time of awesome crisis to US-based capitalism, so much of it looks jerry-rigged but so what? It's not like the Bush mob invented the crisis of capitalism. So far, they're getting away with a particular plan to thrive in that crisis, by plundering everything, whether nailed down or not.

Competent at what they do, which is what they've always done: pillage and plunder.

And those who call them "incompetent" sadly serve to excuse and enable their crimes.

[pauldp]

36. Great Post. However I think they have been sloppy as well.

The burying of the evidence from Building 7.
Silverstein's gaff.
The ridiculous fat Osama tape.
etc.

It actually is quite insulting how stupid they think the average person is.
I guess when you have a deft TV news media in your pocket,
you can afford to be sloppy on occasion.

[JackRiddler]

38. Everything's sloppy

That's the nature of life. We are creatures of mud, even a space shuttle launch or a microchip is based on approximations.

Of course they're sloppy, and stupid too. I don't think of 9/11 as the product of "masterminds" but of criminals with sufficient ruthlessness and a good insider's knowledge of how the system works.

Hundreds of loose ends were left. So what? "It only counts if it gets on TV." They know a) the governing apparatus will fall faithfully in line behind the flag whenever it is waved; b) the corporate media will not report anomalies in official stories, insofar as these suggest wrongdoing by secret government tentacles, or even the existence thereof; c) denial will be widespread; d) many academics will reliably step up to defend and excuse whatever power does, and blow the same old "conspiracy theory stupid, me smart" notes. Most important is that all this has worked before, many times. They more they got away with in the past (for example the Iran-Contra/CIA-Drugs/S&L-plunder complex of the 1980s), the more they will dare in the next round, especially as they get increasingly senile and detached from all sense of humanity.

True, "those who win at a rigged game, get stupid." (CA Fitts) The brief life of the "Kissinger Commission on 9/11" should have made that obvious, but who cares when it goes unreported?

As for your examples, consider:

Silverstein's gaffe - time and his company's press release show that it's variably interpretable and eminently deniable. No big deal.

Fat Osama - not necessarily a Bush mob or US govt. production. Anyone could have produced this, the key is that the State Dept. gave it the imprimatur.

Etc.

[Jose Diablo]

39. Agreed, I'm amazed how so many can deem success

as incompetence. Never underestimate an enemy.

Edit: Throwing around a lable like incompetence only serves to excuse treason, and as such allows a person to remain blind to the threat and justifies inaction to remove the threat.

[MrSammo1]

40. screws up.......

Fits perfectly.

They've been caught!

[simonm]

41. Many small failures will lead to their demise

They screwed up many times. Here is a small list.

1.) WTC 7 was brought down despite no direct hit from a plane.
2.) WTC 7 shared the same forensic characteristics with twin towers.
3.) Plenty of video evidence available to dispute their "official" propaganda.
4.) Didn't notify Silverstein adequately about the cover up. He went on camera and confessed to the WTC 7 demolishing.
5.) Documented Bush lies surrounding the event.
6.) Failure of the military to follow established protocol.
7.) Operation Northwoods.
8.) Vigilance...
9.) Government disinfo programs targeting the Internet and press to manipulate public opinion. (hint: blogs included)


9/11 will be a success only if they manage to remain in power. It is not over yet.

[sabbat hunter]

43. lets take these one by one

1) WTC 7 while not hit by a plane suffered major damage due to debris falling from the WTC 1,2. fires were inside
2) only evidence is the video, no forensic evidence of implosion exists
3) planes hit towers 1 and 2 (see damage hole in tower 1 and actual plane hitting tower 2)
4) silverstein never said on camera he demolished WTC 7. only inference is when he said on an open fire fighter channel to "pull it" meaning in this case pull the fire fighters out. why would he say on an open channel to deliberately destroy the tower, and why over a fire fighter channel?
5) bush lies, people die. bush is incompetant people die (See war in iraq, katrina)
6) military supposedly did follow protocol and sent fighters out but out to sea
7) operation northwood, possible
8) huh?
9) definate possible, but then using that line of thinking there are those sent out to discredit any real investigation by suggesting no plane hit the towers, there were holograms or disintergration rays used.

[simonm]

45. Incompetence is not an excuse

There is a difference between criminal negligence and incompetence. A court of law will help him figure that out when the time comes.

Funny how your response to #4 mirrors Lared's ( 9/11 debunker) intentional disinformation. I’ll let others decide for themselves as to what Silverstein meant.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/011904wtc7.html

If you are truly interested in knowing the truth I recommend the following video which provides a thorough scientific analysis. No hype and no stupid holograms.

http://www.911eyewitness.com/googlelowrez.html

[sabbat hunter]

46. funny how so

funny that we are both intelligent adults? that we are both rational critical thinkers?


and thats right people who are critical thinkers can decide for themselves what silverstein meant.

[Harald Ragnarsson]

52. Why you give Silverstein the benefit of the doubt? n/t

[sabbat hunter]

53. i have a better question

why DONT you give him the benefit of the doubt? innocent until proven guilty right?

[laruemtt]

55. i think *co outsourced the job.

they hired "hit men" and now he owes them whatever they want.

[Slit Skirt]

56. that's what they want us to believe

all of their screwups are incompetence....not so...everything they do is intentional...incompetence let's them off the hook

[jschurchin]

57. They can't. But there are people..........

at Langley who can. You have to ask yourself, If I wanted to commit a crime and financing was unlimited would you: A) Hire some jerkoff on a street corner or B)Hire professionals who have committed crimes before without getting caught.

Bush is an Idiot, who couldn't get out of his own way. Cheney and Rumsfield are not. They are Evil, intelligent men who would stop at nothing in their lust for Power. The idea lies with them, but they won't get their hands dirty, too smart for that, thats left up to the Department of Plans at Langley.

A few things have to occur to ensure a successful operation.
1) Protection of U.S. airspace must be eliminated. Since no one is going to attempt to fuck with the U.S. Air Force you do the next best thing. You change the rules of engagement so that one man has final say so on intercepts (Rumsfield).

2) Since you know that the media is going to cover this event you have to MAKE SURE that the proper story is issued soon after the event i.e. 24-48 hours. 19 hijackers with boxcutters.

3) This is the most important. ALL of the EVIDENCE must be secured, except what you GIVE to investigatory agency's. Nothing loose lying around to come back later and bite you in the ass. Remember the truck driver who got fired. Nothing loose, KNOW where everything is. Destroy as much as possible without arising suspicion from the public.

4) NO EXTERNAL investigation. Any and all investigations must be done "in-house". Set up a commission to conduct a pseudo-investigation. Use information to support the story you want to tell, ignore and/or bury anything that doesn't fit.

A lot of people act like this is something new. These motherfuckers have been practicing this for a long time now, they are VERY, VERY good at it. Do any of these ring a bell, JFK, RFK, MLK, Murrah.

Go back, check and see if these step's are not followed in each case. I believe you will find that they ARE.

[Jon Gold]

58. Wait a second...

Their corruption destroyed the budget. Their corruption brought about the Iraq War. They deliberately allowed Osama Bin Laden to escape. There were failures at all levels of Government regarding Katrina. Bush lied, went to a birthday party to play guitar and cut cake with John McCain, played golf, is a racist bastard, but there were other problems in Government, more than just Bush...

People like to think of Bush as an idiot. If our President, and his staff are such idiots, how does that reflect on us?

They're just evil fascists.