Putin Putsch of Sept. 1999 - The Russian 9/11

[JackRiddler]

Incredibly, a number of major Russian mainstream/tabloid sites that normally favor Putin are suddenly linking to the following, well documented site:

http://eng.terror99.ru/explosions /

Sept. 1999: five bombings kill 300 in Moscow. Blamed on Chechens. State rounds up 1,000 suspects, curtails civil liberties, launches new war in Chechnya. Obscure new PM Vladimir Putin (former KGB) turns into a demigod overnight. Is given full rein to "solve" country's crisis. Soon pushes Yeltsin aside to become president.

Already then, strong evidence pointed to FSB as originator of attacks - two agents were caught planting the sixth bomb! Exiled oligarch Beresovsky and renegade FSB agents have since come out with public disclosures.

Everyone should bone up on it. The Russian Reichstag Fire is very well documented. Excuse me if it sounds cynical: It lacked the spectacular "production values" of 9/11 but otherwise we see many parallels.

As a way of breaking the ice with Americans who doubt 9/11 could be an inside job, tell them about the Putin putsch. It is very recent (the regime it spawned is still going), outside the U.S. (by citing it you show you are not simply "anti-American"), credible, and news to most people who hear it.

Even if it happened among godless commies (actually, our "invaluable allies in the War on Terror"), it shows how normal inside-job terror is. And being so recent, it may well have served as a model or study case for 9/11 itself! It shows how one could get away with a really obvious coup-by-false-flag-terror.

The context is similar, if miniature: Russian power elite sees huge complex crisis, needs a terrible swift sword to mobilize human resources and justify all drastic measures, both domestic/repressive & aggressive. (In our struggle with 9/11 we need to demonstrate what a crisis the U.S. power elite is in - the world crisis itself - to show the motive for 9/11.)

In Russia, relatively clumsy state and media successfully transfered the fear and anger generated by the attacks to the designated perpetrators, even though some of the real perpetrators were caught red-handed! No wonder it could work in the U.S., too.

Few who are presented with the evidence deny it, or cry "conspiracy theory." In fact, people seem to be blase about it being an inside job, even Russians - where are the 1,001 sites about Sept. 1999?

You can ask people: why do you accept this is possible in Russia (aha! evil KGB! evil!) but "unthinkable" in the U.S.? Why? Because our clandestine services are so noble by comparison?

[JackRiddler]

1. Unbelievable!

Is this stunningly obvious parallel of no concern to anyone here?

If Putin got away with it, wasn't it equivalent to a test run for other countries?

[_Jumper_]

2. Test run?

I doubt that but it could have been what gave PNAC the ideas for "Perle Harbor".

This is key, like you said, into getting people to take a look at 9/11 consipracy theories.

[JackRiddler]

3. No, no, I mean an equivalent

to a test run. A model that you could look at and say, "hey, this works!" Not that the FSB had anything to do with 9/11, or vice-versa. (If anything, Putin has ended the era of American influence in Russia, and they still have to give him some respect.)

You don't really buy that PNAC were the masterminds of 9/11, do you? They are like the Godfathers, who let it be known how useful it would be IF a Pearl Harbor would happen... but the operational control, the planning of the actual plot, was elsewhere. (Little doubt that at least Cheney and Rumsfeld were directly involved.)

As for Operation Perle, if you mean Dewdney's piece... talk about blowing speculative bubbles! What's the point of inventing a model with 3 aircraft per flight? It's bound to turn out wrong.

[JackRiddler]

4. But getting back to the point...

Isn't anyone going to react here?

I say 9/99, the Putin Putsch, is a clearer case than the Reichstag fire of government-orchestrated terrorism for the purpose of promoting war and tyranny. It was an inside job in the same way that many here believe 9/11 was an inside job.

Isn't it a particularly relevant example? Don't we have potential allies here?

[JackRiddler]

5. YEEEARRGH! COME ON PEOPLE

So far my quest to raise awareness on this board about 9/99, the Russian Reichstag fire, has been futile. But I think this is an important and obvious example of how inside job, false-flag terror operations are used to achieve the goals of the state.

It's pretty much an open-and-shut case that the FSB (former KGB) was behind the apartment house bombings of Sept. 1999. In fact, FSB agents were caught planting one of the bombs. The attacks allowed the old Soviet secret-police elite to take the reins of power and turn Putin into the new strongman. They provided a pretext for the second Chechen war.

This example is not in the distant past and remains relevant today. 9/99 was definitely not orchestrated by the United States (in fact, it was partly carried out against U.S.-backed interests) - i.e. it shows how this sort of thing happens all around the world. We are not "anti-American" simply because we think the same kind of thing can happen in the United States.

9/99 allows Americans to set aside the blinding passions of 9/11 and take a sober look at inside job mechanics. 9/99 shows how states can use fear and patriotism to gain sway over public opinion and cover their tracks, even when they get caught in the act. It also shows how those who commit such crimes might convince themselves they are acting in their country's higher interest. Russia was in a deep crisis, the head of state was a helpless drunk, the oligarchy's corruption was too obvious, and the FSB obviously had a program for "setting things right" by cracking the whip. Some of the interests exposing 9/99, like Beresovsky, can hardly be described as the good guys. Subsequent events saw a falling-out among the ruling elites - a fight between the nationalist and the international gangsters. (Consider Italy under Mussolini, in which fascism successfully crushed the old Sicilian mafia, replacing it with a much higher and smooth-running form of gangsterism.)

So I urge you to check out this site full of documentation about 9/99:

http://eng.terror99.ru

I just ordered the book and video offered online.

[Tim Howells]

6. Similarities between Russian and US problems

Thanks for pointing out that link. I agree that there
is a definite pattern here. The similarities between events
in the US and the Soviet Union/Russia started during the
Reagan years. From "Red Mafiya" by Robert I. Friedman:

********* QUOTE ON *********

During Gorbachev's reign, the KGB began to hide
communist party funds abroad, according to top-level
Western and U.S. intelligence sources. The KGB
consequently set up some two thousand shell companies
and false-flag bank accounts, some as far away as
Nevada and Ireland. Over the next eleven years,
perhaps as much as $600 billion was spirited out of
the country, in the greatest looting of a nation in
history.

********* QUOTE OFF ********

That last claim may actually not be quite true. In exactly
the same time frame the "Reagan revolution" was looting the
United States, among other things via the Savings and Loan
scandal. That alone is estimated to have cost the American
taxpayer between $300 billion and $500 billion, and our
beloved government is about as eager for a full accounting
of the losses as they are for a full accounting of Iraqi
civilian casualties, or for a full accounting of exactly
what took place on September 11 2001.

Like the looting of the Soviet Union, the S&L looting was
carried out by a relatively small group of operators allied
with the national intelligence agency (CIA) and organized
crime (see Pizzo et al, "Inside Job", pgs 19-20, 466-474).

So we see exactly the same pattern in the US and Russia:
in the late 1980's massive looting via financial fraud by
the KGB/CIA and organized crime. Then in the 1990's and on
up through September 11 to the present more and more phoney
terrorism to justify new forms of totalitarianism.

Tim Howells

[medienanalyse]

7. "Isn't it a particularly relevant example?"

Hi, dear Jack,

I am sorry. We agree in so many points bit not here. See
http://www.medienanalyse-international.de/gleiwitz.html

What I point out is the "event" as a starter to launch a war. That is the only point which allow me as a foreigner to hack into the bushist lies: the worldwide war on terror which is still going on and in which we as Germans are involved.

Otherwise (if 9/11 was only a way to gain more power for the PNAC guys and girls only inside the U.S.A.) I would be out. It would be an American problem to be solved by the Americans.

What happens in Russia is nothing special. We can find these "political" crimes all over the world. If Russia would try to begin a war arguing with these bombings - yes then it would be different. But Putin does not. And so it is less relevant than i.e. Pearl Harbor or Gleiwitz or so many other examples.

We do not have the time and power to stick our noses everywhere even when it stinks.

[DulceDecorum]

9. Jack makes a valid point

as does medienanalyse.

Putin may be not very nice, but at least he appears to confine his nefarious deeds to his own nation.
Bush, on the other hand, is a war president.

At present,
the attention of many in the US is centered on the up-coming elections.
Osama is long forgotten as are facts like the one you just brought up and others like this one.

September 6-12, 1970 - Four New York-bound airliners are hijacked over western Europe by a militant Palestinian group and later three of the planes are blown up on an airfield in Jordan.
http://home.earthlink.net/~killtown/oddities/pre911.html

I guess Nixon just wasn't a war president
and everyone else was sick of Vietnam,
so they just let that one go.

[JackRiddler]

11. I don't understand your objection

if we are scholars we can look at any damn case we like. Dictatorship in other countries is always my business, all should speak out.

However, 9/99 in Russia was used to start a war, or better, to re-start the Chechen war. This time with popular support.

Felshtinsky (author of the site) makes a good case that the original Chechen declaration of independence in Nov. 1991 itself was a product of the old Soviet intel, who wanted to demonstrate that Russia would deteriorate without a strong hand, and intentionally stirred up the chaos there. Dudayev was a GRU intelligence general in Estonia, I believe, "retired" and returned to his home province of Chechnya just in time to stand in the "elections" there, win, and declare independence.

Dudayev paid off intel men in Moscow for years, until it got too expensive. Then the Russians invaded the first time, took too many casualties, had to withdraw due to protest. (But Dudayev killed in the process.)

In 1999 Islamic extremists in Chechnya launched destabilization and terror in neighboring provinces. THis was mostly out of the control o the Chechen authority. Suddenly, Putin comes to power in Moscoe in Aug. and there are terror attacks in Moscow, blamed on Chechens (but not in their interests!) The second invasion followed. Or occupation, call it what you like, this is not about what your position is on the Chechen war but how terror is used to justify war.

War in Chechnya was central point of 9/99, but it solved many problems at once - just like 9/11.

I like looking at the architecture of this because one can do so with less passion. It's the same psychology, but few want to disbelieve or say, "hey, that's not possible in Russia!" like they do with U.S.

Best. Hope all is well.

[vincenzo]

8. Riddler, I'm down wich 'a

I agree with you on almost all your points.

As to why you can't get the response from DU that you seem to be looking for, first, not many people come to this folder. Why it's hidden under the Foreign Affairs/National Security folder I don't know. Second, as a longtime lurker, I think DUers are too polite and civilized. People believe what they are ready to believe, even in the face of direct evidence of the senses. I don't think they want to believe they're living in a criminal world. Compared to other sites, they are late to the party -- they haven't spent years contemplating conspiracy scenarios. When they bring them up, they usually apologize first. Further the disinformationists are treated with a great deal of respect, rarely recognized for what I believe they are.

There are too many here who think the question regarding Oswald is whether he acted alone or not. I bet most DUers even think Wayne Newton is a man.

[maggrwaggr]

10. DUers polite and civilized? ? ? ??

HA!

Jack, I'm glad you posted that. The only reason I came to this folder is because another thread originally in GD got sent here.

I am amazed this hasn't gotten more attention. It's obvious to me that Putin set the example for 9/11.

I've been curious about the connection between Russia and Saudi Arabia, and I've been curious about what Putin was doing during the russian/afghan war.

I can't help but think it's all connected. We sucked Russia into invading Afghanistan, made fools out of them, supplied and trained their opposition (Bin Laden), and they had to retreat.

Could 9/11 have been revenge for that?

[JackRiddler]

12. oh, I doubt that...

even in the Cold War, neither side dared to intervene that openly in the internal affairs of the other. I think it's just understood among the top gangsters that the Chinese can run over their own students with tanks in broad daylight, the Russians can blow up apartment buildings, and the Americans can stage Hollywood fucking spectaculars with their skyscrapers (hey, we're still the biggest & best, goddamnit) without having to worry in any case how the other two will react.

But the Russkies actually do a 9/11 on US? Not without permission from DC, I am certain.