Do you believe Bin Laden is a CIA operative?

[_Jumper_]

I'm not sold on this but the Bin Laden family links to the BFEE raise a lot of questions, as does an alleged CIA/Bin Laden meeting in 2001.

[Birthmark]

1. No. If anyone has evidence that doesn't involve...

...playing six degrees of separation, I am willing to accept it.

[_Jumper_]

5. This is all I have seen to suggest that

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,584444,00.html

[cosmicaug]

2. Operative might be too strong a word.

Operative is not the right word. He is (was?) what they call an asset.

[_Jumper_]

4. What's the difference between the two?

n/t

[rooboy]

3. Is being an 'operative' the same as being an 'asset'???

because I believe he was (perhaps 'is') being used to further the CIA's aims, but whether or not he was working FOR them is another matter.

[cosmicaug]

6. My understanding.

rooboy wrote:

Is being an 'operative' the same as being an 'asset'

My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that it is not. An asset would be someone who proves useful (you might pay him, give him intelligence, or support him in other ways). An operative would be someone who formally works for the C.I.A. (though, of course, the C.I.A. might also formally deny this).

Valerie Plame would be an operative. Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega, some newspaper guy the agency uses to plant misinformation, etc. would be assets.

[Old and In the Way]

7. Well, he bought a jet from the CIA back in 91...not sure if that counts.

There's an interesting story about a guy named Tim Ossman circulating on the net....

The jet purchase in on the 9/11 timeline @ www.cooperativeresearch.org

[_Jumper_]

8. Tim Osman

I am very skeptical of that because the only source is that one article. If it were true, the foreign press would have picked it up.

[gandalf]

11. " foreign press would have picked it up" ???

I strongly doubt your hypothesis. Regarding 9/11, the press doesn't care about inconsistencies or even direct contradictions.

[buckeye1]

9. I can't say.

However,my study of this question demands an investigation. And of course there are many ???. Without answers, there is fertile ground for the weeds of crackpots cranks and hustlers to grow. This has become an egotistical industry. Small people feel big because they attract suckers.

To answer your question,there is much evidence that points that way. Without real conclusive evidence, we can only speculate. Thats how the markets work. Go figure.

[DuctapeFatwa]

10. Here's a snippet from Will Pitt's interview with a CIA guy

you can google around for more


The big momentum was put on by a fellow named William Casey, who was head of CIA under Reagan. He saw this as a little war that he could wage and win, and he had a lot of support from folks on the Hill. What they did was arm and recruit folks like Osama bin Laden and others. One of the big decisions they had to make was whether or not to give them Stinger missiles. I remember when that was under discussion. The dangers of giving these uncontrollable folks Stinger missiles was emphasized, but the decision was to go ahead and give them those missiles anyway. In many respects, the folks that were used as our proxies in this war against the Soviets have come back to bite us, and to bite us very hard as we know from 9/11.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/062603B.shtml

[gandalf]

12. Searching for cognition

Regarding the 9/11 complex, I doubt if stating "beliefs" is of any value if one tries to learn more or to construct theories. Without sound arguments, anything and its contrary can believed.

[el_gato]

13. the Muhajadeen (read this interview with Zbig)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html

Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs <"From the Shadows">, that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

[JackRiddler]

14. Well, here's the most important evidence...

that needs to be dissected!

Was Osama in Dubai on July 4-14, 2001, and did he meet with a CIA agent? And did he check into a Rawalpindi hospital on the night of Sept. 10th, where he may have been directly picked up by his Pakistani ISI wards?

The former is the word of Richard Labeviere (backed by French Radio RF1 and LeFigaro) vs. the CIA's denial, and if true it's the skeleton key to 9/11. It is why I named my old (now defunct) site "Osama's Kidneys."

See http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RIC111B.html

The latter is the word of CBS.

FROM http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO311A.html

A recent Reuters report (11/13/03; scroll down) quoting Labeviere's book "Corridors of Terror" points to alleged "negotiations" between
Osama bin Laden and the CIA, which took place two months prior to the September 11, 2001 attacks at the American Hospital in Dubai, UAE, while bin Laden was recovering from a kidney dialysis treatment
Enemy Number One in hospital recovering from dialysis treatment "negotiating with CIA"?

The meeting with the CIA head of station at the American Hospital in Dubai, UAE was confirmed by a report in the French daily newspaper Le Figaro, published in October 2001. (See Alexandra Richard, at http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RIC111B.html

NEXT PASSAGE IS FROM
http://www.kurtnimmo.com/2003_11_01_archive.html

The CIA has called author Richard Labeviere (Corridors of Terror) a liar. "The CIA rejected as fantasy claims it tried to negotiate a non-aggression pact with Osama bin Laden just two months before the September 11 attacks," reports the Herald. " said the meeting took place in the American Hospital in Dubai on July 12, eight weeks before the attacks."

Back in October, 2001, the French newspaper Le Figaro that "Osama Bin Laden stayed at the American hospital in Dubai, from July 4-14, where he reportedly met an official of the CIA , according to a witness, a professional partner of the administrative management of the hospital... According to Arab diplomatic sources, and French intelligence services, very precise information was communicated to the CIA, regarding terrorist attacks against American interests in the world. A report of the DST of Sept. 7, collected this information, specifying that the order to act would come from Afghanistan."

"Barely a few days ago Defense Secretary Rumsfeld stated that it would be difficult to find him and extradite him," Michel Chossudovsky wrote in November, 2001. "Its like 'searching for a needle in a stack of hay'. But the US could have ordered his arrest and extradition in Dubai last July. But then they would not have had a pretext of waging a war."

---------------------


DAN RATHER, CBS ANCHOR: As the United states and its allies in the war on terrorism press the hunt for Osama bin Laden, CBS News has exclusive information
tonight about where bin Laden was and what he was doing in the last hours before his followers struck the United States September 11.
This is the result of hard-nosed investigative reporting by a team of CBS news journalists, and by one of the best foreign correspondents in the business,
CBS`s Barry Petersen. Here is his report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BARRY PETERSEN, CBS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Everyone remembers what happened on September 11. Here`s the story of what may have
happened the night before. It is a tale as twisted as the hunt for Osama bin Laden.
CBS News has been told that the night before the September 11 terrorist attack, Osama bin Laden was in Pakistan. He was getting medical treatment with the
support of the very military that days later pledged its backing for the U.S. war on terror in Afghanistan.
Pakistan intelligence sources tell CBS News that bin Laden was spirited into this military hospital in Rawalpindi for kidney dialysis treatment. On that
night, says this medical worker who wanted her identity protected, they moved out all the regular staff in the urology department and sent in a secret team to replace them. She says it was
treatment for a very special person. The special team was obviously up to no good.
"The military had him surrounded," says this hospital employee who also wanted his identity masked, "and I saw the mysterious patient helped
out of a car. Since that time," he says, "I have seen many pictures of the man. He is the man we know as Osama bin Laden. I also heard two army officers talking to each other. They
were saying that Osama bin Laden had to be watched carefully and looked after." Those who know bin Laden say he suffers from numerous ailments, back and stomach problems. Ahmed Rashid, who
has written extensively on the Taliban, says the military was often there to help before 9/11.
AHMED RASHID, TALIBAN EXPERT: There were reports that Pakistani intelligence had helped the Taliban buy dialysis machines. And the rumor was that these
were wanted for Osama bin Laden.
(continued)

-----------------------

See the French Intel report about the Bin Laden family on Frontline
http://cgi.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/family.html

-------------------------
When Osama Bin Laden was Tim Osman
(about his 1980s arms-purchasing tour of U.S. bases)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kalliste/binladin_timosman.htm
-------------------------

So what's to believe?

There's no doubt about the "Taliban Airlift" that allowed a whole bunch of "Qaeda" and ISI to escape the American siege of Mazar - or of the retreat allowed from Tora Bora.

---------------------------

All in all: is he an asset? Is Qaeda an asset? Hell yeah.

Most recommended book:
Richard Labeviere, "Dollars for Terror"

[JackRiddler]

15. The Big Summer 2001 Bin Laden Buildup

"This summer! We're gonna blow up New York like you've never seen it blown up before. Forget Pearl Harbor, skip Collateral Damage, this is the one you dare not miss: 911 EMERGENCY DAY" -- implicit messages in the Press, Hollywood, and the Intel Agencies of the World, Summer 2001, for example this gem, well worth reading in full:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,131866,00.html

Bin Laden Rides Again: Myth vs. Reality

A 'plot' to assassinate President Bush and a second to attack the U.S. military in the Gulf —all in the same week. TIME.com's Tony Karon sifts the Bin Laden hype

By TONY KARON

Wednesday, Jun. 20, 2001

That It Boy of international terror, Osama Bin Laden, is back in the news. Headlines from just the past week: "Russians Reveal Bin Laden Plot to Kill Bush at G8 Meeting." "Bin Laden Video Claims Responsibility for Cole Bombing." "Yemen Foils Bin Laden Plot to Kill U.S. Investigators." "Bin Laden Group Planned to Blow Up U.S. Embassy in India…" And finally, at week's end, U.S. forces all over the Gulf confined to barracks and ships put to sea because of a "non-specific but credible threat" from Bin Laden's group. Vile acts and wretched conspiracies reported from all over the world, all carrying the imprimatur of the Saudi terror tycoon skulking in the hills of Afghanistan, his name now the globally recognizable shorthand for Islamist terror in the same way that "Xerox" has become for "photocopy."

In the language of advertising, Bin Laden has become a brand — a geopolitical Keyser Soze...

If Bin Laden didn't exist, we'd have to invent him

Still, the media's picture of Bin Laden sitting in a high-tech Batcave in the mountains around Kandahar ordering up global mayhem at the click of a mouse is more than a little ludicrous...

Then there is the sublime: For sheer diabolical genius (of the Hollywood variety), nothing came close to the reports that European security services are preparing to counter a Bin Laden attempt to assassinate President Bush at next month's G8 summit in Genoa, Italy. According to German intelligence sources, the plot involved Bin Laden paying German neo-Nazis to fly remote controlled-model aircraft packed with Semtex into the conference hall and blow the leaders of the industrialized world to smithereens. (Paging Jerry Bruckheimer…) The Russians, who believe a Bin Laden attack in Genoa is more likely to be carried out by their old enemy, the Chechens, have sent an advance team of anti terrorism experts (armed, we hope, with small-scale anti-aircraft weapons)...

He's not ducking blame, he's demanding it

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,131866,00.html