was flight 93 brought down because of what survivors might've said?

[villager]

"Flight 93" being discussed around the office today, and then this thought: was the plane brought down for the same reasons Oswald was shot? i.e., you couldn't have any previously unforeseen "survivors" around to talk about what actually went down that day?

[adriennui]

1. and what do you think went down that day

isn't it possible that some evil muslims hijacked the plane and its passengers and meant to crash it into a building....or was it all a dream.

[Selatius]

2. Is it anymore possible than what he asserts? n/t

[1956]

3. I think there are an awful lot o questions

that will always remain unanswered, but one question I have is this...
Last weekend I think, I was watching Flight 93 on A&E and I looked and it was made this year. Was that the same docudrama that is being shown in theatres? It doesn't look like it so far...

[RamboLiberal]

5. No that was a different production

A&E's version was titled Flight 93 and was a typical TV production. In the theaters is United 93 which doesn't show the families, telephone operator, etc., on the other end of the phone. The passengers in the theater film are not even named. You have to know the media stories of the passengers to know who is who.

[libhill]

10. Not a dream-

it's called bull shit. Osama Bin Forgotten and ALciaDuh had nothing to do with it -

[mirandapriestly]

17. Yep, you got it.Nt

[stray cat]

4. Its the matrix and nothing around you is real

[ronnykmarshall]

6. Ummmmm WHAT SURVIORS?

Once that plane was highjacked their fate was sealed.

[mirandapriestly]

18. Well, if the passenger took over the plane and landed it

If I recall correctly, one of them was a pilot, or they could have been talked down.

[deaniac21]

7. I don't think the plane was brought down to cover up JFK's

murder.

[Dr.Phool]

8. Can you prove it wasn't shot down to cover up JFK's murder?

Didn't think so.
:evilgrin:

[LARED]

13. I see you are well skilled in CT logic 101 nt

[Poppyseedman]

9. Brought down by whom???

BFEE??? Let's assume you are right? You are saying:

The plane was really high jacked by black booted federal agents controlled by the BFEE and they purposely crashed or shot down the plane to hide the fact that it was MIHOP or LIHOP. The black booted federal BFEE agents sacrificed their lives to hide the conspiracy that 9/11 really was a secret BFEE operation to gain control of the government to implement the planned fascist takeover???

There where no Muslims terrorist on the plane or if there were, they were stooge's of BFEE and died in the service of BFEE.

The passengers figured out the evil plan and took over the plane, but BFEE simply could not allow that to happen and brought down to plane to conceal their plan.

I thought so!!!!!!

[petgoat]

11. So what's so outlandish about the idea?

If Osama was wearing his "CIA Asset" hat when he ordered the attacks,
then the presumed Muslim highjackers were all CIA stooges. The debris
trail is consistent with a shootdown. The three minute tape gap, the
sound of rushing wind, and the great lengths to which the 9/11 Commission
goes to tell the story so that Cheney could not have issued the shootdown
order until it was too late are consistent with a shootdown.

[Poppyseedman]

12. I can buy into the idea Flight 93 was shot down to save

many more lives then the 40 on board.
I actually think it was the right thing to do if we were FOR ABSOLUTE CERTAIN the plane was headed for DC were thousands of live might have been lost.

I don't buy into the idea that bush planned it or that the plane was shot down to silence the passengers so no one survived to rat bush/cheney out

I think it's pretty clear the planes were high jacked by muslims extremist willing to die for their religion.

[petgoat]

14. Well it's not clear to me. According to the right-wing

newspaper The Daily Telegraph, two of the alleged flight 93 hijackers, al Ghamdi and al Nami, have
turned up alive.

I agree that had the planes been intercepted by fighters, had the hijackers refused to negotiate
and land, the planes should have been shot down to deny the hijackers the satisfaction of completing
their missions.

But if 93 was headed for DC, it was going to be over Blair Witch country for another ten minutes.
So what was the hurry to shoot it down? The FBI was listening to the phone calls and knew the
passengers were planning an assault. Jim Hoffman suggests that the debris trail indicates that
the flight was heading west when it crashed, which would seem consistent with the passengers having
taken control.

[mirandapriestly]

20. Which aspects of these "terrorists" lives did you find

to be conducive to their being extremist enough to die for their religion? Was it the drinking? the gambling? the strippers? Just curious, since you find it so "clear". It looks like the propaganda machine is very successfully convincing people of something without any evidence at all. People who don't read or watch anything out of corporate media, that is.

[Poppyseedman]

22. What aspect of Islamic culture do you understand?

I know and work with Muslims and know their behavior. There is a concept in Islam which allows them to deceive infidels to achieve their goals.

Your religious template is influenced by western Christian civilization and culture.

If you know anything about fundamentalist radical Islam, you would know what the terrorist did is not surprising at all.

[mirandapriestly]

27. Can you illustrate that with something other than your alleged personal

experience?

[CJCRANE]

32. There's a concept in human nature

which allows people to deceive to achieve their goals. I don't think it's specific to Islam.

[arcane1]

33. true, even politicians can deceive their own people

to acheive their goals

even kill them

[Sinti]

15. I guess it could have been, but I don't think so

If MIHOP is true, and it was properly planned, I think the passengers would have said that their plane was hijacked by Arab terrorists, because that's all they saw.

If MIHOP is not true, though, it could have been shot down to save more lives than were lost.

[villager]

16. agreed -- just chewing this over. If MIHOP is true, though, what if

passengers revolting and taking over the plane was a "variable" not accounted for in advance?

[Sinti]

19. Whoever the planner, I bet they didn't expect the passengers to fight back

They misunderestimated us Americans :P

It's just a crying shame they didn't land the damn thing. Doesn't seem fair to die by random chance like that, especially when you tried like hell to stop it. :(

[LARED]

23. One of the joys of being a CT theorist is the "variables"

that are unaccounted for are trivial matters. There is always, repeat always, a way to explain anything within an ever expanding, ever deepening conspiracy.

Lets see. If I was a CT'er the unaccounted for revolt explain why flt 93 had to be shot down to prevent anyone from exposing the plot.

[mirandapriestly]

26. Are you sure you aren't talking about the "official" story? nt

[mirandapriestly]

21. Yes, but they would have been able to see who the "terrorists"

really were.

[Sinti]

24. I truly think a well thought out plan would have had genuine Arab

terrorists on all planes. These terrorists would have been provided by your deep-cover op, who was in agreement with your PNAC plan for World Domination, and had sway over the minds of many young men. They, at least one of them, and it would have to be the pilot, would have been willing and ready to martyr himself for Allah, via the suicidal plane crash into your location of choosing.

Anything less, in my extremely humble and relatively uneducated opinion, would be far too risky, too many factors to consider. What if the real pilots, or someone else, did something unexpected that threw a monkey wrench into your plan and landed the plane? I think you would want reality to be as close to your scripted story as is humanly possible.

[mirandapriestly]

25. But does it seem to you that any of the alleged hijackers

fit that profile? I saw a film , coincidently enough, right before 9-11. I think it was made in Pakistan and it was about a young woman suicide terrorist, only she was going to strap a bomb to herself then go to see a politician and kerpow. She chickens out, but her life before that is one of solemn deprivation and secrecy. She was a true believer who prayed quietly, fasted, was abstinent, just very different from these guys. There was a network of people who helped her and she stayed at their homes, no big funder that could be easily traced like with the 911 Pakistani "Paymaster".
Nothing about these guys seems to fit. Many came from wealthy families and were not acting in a way that showed they knew they were going to die. Not only that, but it looks like some of them are still alive and there are problems identifying them (doubles).
Do you think that the US just didn't want to admit that they did not know who these guys were?

[Sinti]

28. I remember a while back the FBI said the perps may have used fake ID

stolen passports, and so on. It makes sense to me. With the number of mistakes that day, which defies common sense and reason completely BTW, it seems to me there would have been a lot of CYA after the fact. There have been at least a couple guys, with the same name/face and country of origin, who stood up and said, hey, I am alive and well in Saudi Arabia, another in Egypt I think - details fail me ATM, though I think one works for Saudi Airlines. Following that, I believe, the FBI said, well, they may have had stolen passports and forged identities, blah-blah, and the story disappeared - you know the memory hole.

I can't quite wrap my head around the Mohamed Atta drinking, gambling, wild women stories. It could be a totally different Mohamed Atta, it could be pure disinfo, to poison the well and take the eyes off of the criminal (at best gross negligence) behavior of our own administration in the matter. Anyone in power who is given multiple warnings that something of this nature is about to happen and ignores it has a lot to answer for. I don't buy the incompetence theory. * may be incompetent, but his cabinet level officers were certainly not, at least not when they served in previous administrations.

The 911 Pakistani "Paymaster" - isn't Pakistan a strange place, AQ Khan, Musharraf took over from the elected government in a military coup and he's our good friend to the point that we're willing to sell him weapons (what's up with that). Pakistan is where the Taliban originally came from, they didn't fight the war against the Soviets. They were in religious school in Pakistan. They train a lot of the religious zealots there from the time they're very young - like 8-10 years old. I'm not at all surprised by their link to this, personally.

Terrorists or MIHOP, I think they only needed one "true believer" who knew he was going to die. The others could have been told they were going to hijack the plane, make demands, land it somewhere and release their hostages, like terrorists usually do. You don't need to be deeply religious to, say, demand the release of your "brothers" held in Israeli or American prisons. There's a lot of discontent that can be put to use among people there, if they think their potential imprisonment could serve many others, they might do it even if they weren't at all religious. They could have also been poor, and promised their families would be paid to hijack the plane. I heard about a bounty of $10,000 to every suicide bomber in Palestine -- something like that. You can convince people to do a lot of things, given the right incentive.

Sorry for the novel here :)

[mirandapriestly]

29. To me the fake id's show that there was no real evidence

for these hijackers. Why would the FBI identify hijackers using documents that they thought were fake? They came out and said that right away. Plus, the documents seemed to me to be planted (ie found either unscathed among the devastation or mysteriously-only the photo remained with a burn mark next to it. The drinking Atta probably was not the Atta we see the pic of , but why say that it was? The general lifestyle of the men didn't seem to fit fundamentalists, but I am no expert. Jareh had lived with his girlfriend, I think it was hanjoor, Atta was not the only one to gamble. I do not think that any of these guys were really the hijackers and if there is a "real" fundamentalist then why not show us the evidence and bolster their case?
The other interesting thing about Pakistan is their link to the CIA, that's what I think the significance of that connection is. ISI=CIA.
So do you think that their cells were infiltrated by CIA who "helped" bring about 9-11?

[Sinti]

30. No real evidence/no real investigation - this is the problem

I think they had to have a bad guy to go after immediately, saying I don't know would have not been acceptable I suppose. There was no criminal investigation, not the kind you'd expect given a crime of this magnitude. It's disturbing to me.

"found either unscathed among the devastation or mysteriously-only the photo remained with a burn mark next to it"

Right, while computer circuit boards and metal machine casings were turned to dust, and fingernail size fragments. Very strange, isn't it. This is another reason why there are so very many questions.

"Fat, Right-handed Osama" IMO is evidence of a cover up all by itself. The only question is, what are they covering up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1719399&mesg_id=1719399

"So do you think that their cells were infiltrated by CIA who "helped" bring about 9-11?"

I don't know what to think ATM. I'm still muddling. I haven't spent enough time with the facts (not surmise and opinions but bare facts), to make a real considered hypothesis of what happened.

The CIA and DIA have a history with these guys, since the Soviet Afghan War at least. Not just in Afghanistan, but also in North Africa, basically anywhere the Soviets were thinking about expanding to, we made contacts. For them to deny it is laughable, ridiculous, and patently false. The ME was/is very strategic to us, we need that oil to run our war machine, and we weren't letting the Soviets have it, to do so would have been suicide. We had plenty of assets in the ME, deep cover assets.

That said, regardless of what some try to say, if they wanted to, they could have. There is no question in my mind about this. These are the guys we trusted to infiltrate the KGB, plant listening devices in the Kremlin. They are both extra-governmental agencies, for all practical purposes above the law. I'll never believe they "couldn't" do it. The only question is, did they.

If they did, I can't imagine they wouldn't have used real live Arab terrorists on that plane. Getting caught would turn the nation on its head, a rational, logical man wouldn't take that chance. Not all terrorists are religious. Most suicide bombers in Palestine are not at all religious.

We need a real, fully funded, professional criminal investigation, then we'll have answers :)

[CJCRANE]

31. I agree.

Especially If you consider that the only person brought to trial for 9/11 was Moussaoui, who by most accounts was not involved in that specific plot. The so-called 9/11 mastermind Khaled Sheikh Mohammed has never been tried and of course bin Laden allowed to get away, so it does appear that the less the public konws about the real background to 9/11 the better (for the neocons).