Constructive Criticism of the 911 Truth Movement

[graphixtech]

Blog topics include:

Credibility, limited discussions, tactics,
keeping the personal out of discussions, etc...

http://digitalstyledesigns.com/pages/Thoughts.htm

[HornBuckler]

1. I'm not sure what that is all about.

Read down a bit - clicked on some links - didn't find much.
I did like the part about not getting personal, but the booby trap link atop that is mentioned to be read first and foremost is old and bases many of it's points on cherry picked eye-witness accounts. It doesn't include those accounts of people that saw and heard other things.


EDIT - but thanks for the link - I've been all over the net looking for 9/11 information and found that if your looking for a collection of DIFFERING opinions and evidence DU is one of the best.
Hear we have both sides, and that's important.

[Beam Me Up]

3. Confrontation

Dyalan Avery, Korey Rowe and Jason Bermas, the writer/director, producer and graphic artist behind Loose Change Second Edition were at the Grand Lake Theatre in Oakland California on Tuesday evening May 2nd for a screening of their film. This screening was, in part, a benefit for KPFA's "Guns and Butter" radio program. As ticket buyers and holders were arriving, two members of the Northern California 9/11 Truth Allaince were handing out flyers to the crowd that claimed to divide the evidence presented in the film into 'good' and 'not so good' categories. The Loose Change team took exception to this tactic and boldly confronted the two people leafleting.

I stood and watched part of this and felt the whole incident was unfortunate and unnecessary. For what it is worth, I'm a Loose Change supporter and fan and believe even if everything in the film isn't 'bullet proof' from some people's standards, it has to be given a HUGE amount of credit for what it is and for what it has done. This documentary was put together by Dylan on a laptop with NO budget in his spare time and yet it has become THE most watched 9/11 video on the planet. It has been downloaded more than five million times from Google video and has been in the TOP FIVE (at one point as high as the top three) in Goggle's list of "most popular". Note, THEY did not put Loose Change on Google but were certainly not adverse to it being put there. As the Loose Change guys expressed of the film on stage, "None of this was supposed to have happened." In other words, they had no idea this was going to become as big as it has. From my observation, this one film has opened more people's eyes regarding the questionable nature of the official 9/11 story than any other single piece of work. That it isn't 'perfect' is beside the point. Dylan, Korey and Jason are hard at work producing a third edition of Loose Change which will be released in some theatres this summer. They are also organizing a large protest to meet at Ground Zero for the fifth anniversary of 9/11.

[graphixtech]

5. Correction, a FREE SPEECH issue

Within the legitimate 911 truth movement, there is far from
unanimous agreement about any perceived value of Loose Change.
Considering that Loose Change (and the no plane hit the Pentagon)
issues have been a main focal point of mainstream media lately,
the lack of accuracy of the film is of importance to many.

As a member of the 911Research team, and having paid dues to the
911 truth movement for over two years, as much as anyone else
I have a right to share my own honest analysis and opinions about
the climate and (critical) condition of the current 911 truth movement.

I am sorry that you are offended by the debate.

This is a free speech and civility issue.
Our Constitutional rights still allow citizens to voice dissenting opinions.

(An alternative interpretation of the May 2, 2006 Oakland, CA
Loose Change confrontation based on what was told to me)

On the May 2nd, showing of Loose Change in Oakland, CA, two long time
SF 911 truth activists, Victoria Ashley and Vince Sauve, distributed flyers
from a nearby public sidewalk. These flyer handouts expressed a dissenting
perspective about the accuracy of Loose Change and the movie's publicly
detrimental effect on the 911 truth movement by association.

A version of one of the flyers can be viewed here:
http://911research.wtc7.net/materials/supplements/loosechange.html

If there were any questions about the legality of the dissenting literature
being handed out on the sidewalk, three policemen were standing around the
corner. Rather than communicate anger in a rational and civil manner,
a lead organizer repeatedly yelled a string of curse words and very
insulting terms at the two activists. Seeming to play it up for their
video cameras, the filmmakers also communicated in an aggressive manner.

Besides being a local SF activist, Victoria Ashley has earned a highly
significant national reputation as 911Research's Research Consultant.
http://911research.wtc7.net/re911/about.html
Vince Sauve is a long time San Francisco 911Truth activist.


An alternative analysis of Loose Change, by Michael Green
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/green/loose_change.html

The Pentagon Attack: What the Physical Evidence Shows
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html



http://911research.wtc7.net/



(these are my own interpretations and opinions.- JH)
http://digitalstyledesigns.com/

[Beam Me Up]

8. I was there, they were not on a "nearby public sidewalk."

Victoria and Vince were standing under the theatre marquee on private property directly in front of the theatre doors handing leaflets to individuals waiting to buy tickets. I do not deny that Dylan and Jasson confronted them angrily and that it was being recorded.

I do not share your 'I'm right, you're wrong' view of the 9/11 movement or your assessments of what is 'gold' and what is not.

[graphixtech]

9. other observations from a 911 truth activist

The activists were on a public sidewalk, engaged in a legal activity.
The filmmakers were very confrontational and animated. One referred
to his belief that no planes actually hit the towers. One long ranted
about Peak Oil being a scam.


From a different witness at the event:
"I don't believe that it is their purpose to find out any truth about 9/11.
I'm now convinced that their only purpose is to discredit the 9/11 Truth Movement."



From blog:
Many of us have witnessed these type of intimidating attacks directed
at dissent at anti-war protests. (more)
http://digitalstyledesigns.com/pages/Thoughts.htm

[Beam Me Up]

10. What do you want from me? I was there.

The two activists were on private property.

Yes, the young men were confrontational and arguably inappropriate. But this doesn't surprise me. Dylan, Korey and Jason are not agents. They are just young, out of their element, a bit over their head and a bit hot headed and defensive. You can draw any silly conclusion you want from their behavior but that is all it is, your opinion.

In any case the intellectual elitist attitude you and others like you are taking does not work with me and a lot of other people. Is that what you want, to alienate a whole segment of the movement? There are all kinds of ways this can be approached. I've met both Victoria and Vince in another 9/11 setting and they both totally turned me off with their insistance that their way was the only way. That is total BS and I won't go along with it.

In another forum, Dylan wrote the following:

dylan avery
Posted: May 4 2006, 09:26 AM
Group: Admin

absolutely incredible night.

I blew up on the North Cali alliance and I shouldn't have, I should have merely laughed at their arrogance and walked away, but I don't like people trashing me in my own element.

eh. whatever. we had a great time out there, and I wanna thank every single person that showed up for it.

[Jazz2006]

7. With all due respect, Beam Me Up

I don't think anyone is seeking "perfection" - but Loose Change is dishonest, misleading, full of errors, misquotes, selective quotes, and is both internally and externally inconsistent.

The fact that it was "put together on a laptop" is glaringly apparent, as it appears no actual investigation was carried out by these guys and that they just put together a conglomerate of dubious bits and pieces found on the internet without ever actually conducting any investigation or interviews themselves. And it is glaringly apparent that they chose only bits and pieces that support their paranoid conspiracy theories, ignored everything that doesn't fit those theories, and misrepresented a whole lot of people and quotes along the way.

That doesn't deserve my respect. It deserves my contempt.

(edit to direct subject line to appropriate party)

[Christophera]

2. Good To See People Writing About The Peace Movement & 9-11

If the 2000 elections weren't enough then there was 9-11, it that wasn't enough there was the 2004 election but the peace movement cannot seem to focus.

I suspect it is true that there are organizations for peace that are founded by the cia and they will do anything but things that might lead to really causing peace. They have good images and hold sucessful fund raisers where everybody feels warm and happy when they leave. And of course if you approached them asking that they focus their membership on 9-11 in order to gather the impetus needed to make peace, they would ignore you.

I wrote the blogger and praised them for their perspective.

[Woody Box]

4. Orwellian nightmares

A quote from your blog concerning the flight 93 flyer:

In what can only be described as Orwellian, after ten cries of "disinfo" and various complaints (eight comments were "anonymous"), a moderator at 911blogger decided that Jim Hoffman's and my own (designed) Flight 93 flyers acted as a "disservice to the the truth movement" and might be disinformation! They not only took down our flyer links, but then removed the entire thread (of over 200 responses). Don't believe it? Here is the thread of comments. This deleted thread and "disservice to 911 truth and disinfo" label of Jim and myself qualifies as a shining example of the current discussion climate.

You're upset because the flyer was pulled by the nasty 911blogger? I tell you why it was pulled.

Because you combined your critic of the official story with a rude bashing of people who did hard work on discovering and clarifying the oddities of Flight 93. Please accept that it is not proven that Flight 93 was shot down, and that there are many reasons not to believe in this scenario.

Here is an excerpt from the flyer:

A hoax theory that Flight 93 did not even crash in Pennsylvania is advanced by certain websites, books, and
videos (i.e., Team8+, ’9/11 Revealed’, ’Loose Change’). Promoters make one or more of these false claims:

1. There was no plane wreckage at the alleged crash site.

2. Flight 93 landed and deboarded in Cleveland.

3. The cell phone calls from Flight 93 were faked.

Claim 1 exploits the counterintuitive tendency of high-speed crashes to reduce planes to small rubble. In fact, the remains of Flight 93 were recovered from the crater produced by the plane’s plunge into the soft landfill.

Claim 2 was created from an erroneous news report stating that Flight 93 landed in Cleveland, and embellished with a fantastic scenario of passengers being herded into an empty NASA research building and disappeared.

Claim 3 is based on the dubious theory that cell phonesdon’t work above 10,000 feet. Even if true, it would not make the calls from Flight 93 suspect, since the plane may have been below 10,000 feet when the calls were made.

The denial of the crash of Flight 93 appears calculated to alienate victims’ survivors and the larger public from the 9/11 truth movement. It is part of a campaign to deny the crashes of each of the four jetliners, functioning to reinforce the false dialectic of gullible conspiracy theorists versus the official story.

Who do you want to attack, the official story or colleagues of the 9/11 community? I doubt that this flyer does anything to improve the "current discussion climate".

[graphixtech]

6. The Crash of Flight 93

The three sites listed do not qualify as colleagues.

Evidence Indicates Flight 93 Was Shot Down
http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/flight93/index.html



http://911research.wtc7.net/


.

[graphixtech2]

11. updates about McGovern, Chomsky, DRG, 911 truth movement's hijacking

http://digitalstyledesigns.com/pages/Thoughts.htm